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SPFL declare league due to Covid (Hearts expelled)

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Deevers

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

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gashauskis9
6 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


What closed door games?!

Sorry, I thought your post was referring to the Premiership being open for business behind closed doors but the rest of the leagues having a shutdown. 

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fancy a brew
16 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Man Utd have a clause in their players wagers that if they don’t qualify for the champions league then their wages will be reduced by 25% and players have to sign this agreement as it’s written into their contract.
 

We should be asserting our own clause into future contracts and caveat them by saying that if we don’t finish at least 4th or qualify for the europa league then players salaries will reduce by 25%. Written into a players contract at least shows ambition and a harder line taken by management. Our last 3 playing squads  have woefully lacked ambition for a while and this has been the worst ever in the last 40 years! 
 

Hopefully we address our recruitment department when we overhaul this years squad yet again 

 

We don't even have the usual win incentives written into the contracts, and 2 of the senior players be were given golden tickets to train at home. It's no surprise looking back, that the other teams at the bottom 'wanted' it more.

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Biffa Bacon
6 hours ago, Jambo66 said:

It won't be a major concern at all. She will ignore it because it's irrelevant. I suspect she has rather more important things to do at the moment.

 

As for the rest of your rant? Give it a rest mate, really.

Agreed, the rag will print what it likes, it would be a full time job challenging every anti Hearts story.

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doctor jambo

I think people in the spfl need to realise it’s not “mothballing”.

Its sacking all your staff and players and closing down.

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frankblack
6 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

 

I wouldn't think this would be a difficult point to make to a judge that

a) they changed the rules to expel us on the basis of an incomplete season.

b) they are changing the championship and removing any reduced income stream.

 

I could see a hefty damages award out of that as a minimum to make the SPFL's eyes water.

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Fozzyonthefence
18 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


What closed door games?!


The Premiership is looking to start with closed doors games, in fact it will have to for the new tv deal. The tv deal that this whole farce has been about.  Why do you think they won’t?

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Biffa Bacon
39 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Man Utd have a clause in their players wagers that if they don’t qualify for the champions league then their wages will be reduced by 25% and players have to sign this agreement as it’s written into their contract.
 

We should be asserting our own clause into future contracts and caveat them by saying that if we don’t finish at least 4th or qualify for the europa league then players salaries will reduce by 25%. Written into a players contract at least shows ambition and a harder line taken by management. Our last 3 playing squads  have woefully lacked ambition for a while and this has been the worst ever in the last 40 years! 
 

Hopefully we address our recruitment department when we overhaul this years squad yet again 

Aye do they though. Do you think when they were desperate to sign Paul Pogba, his lawyer would not review a contract before he signed it. He would say get that clause our of there or I am going somewhere else. Contracts are negotiated and will be give and take and likely to end up being bespoke, especially at a club like Man U.

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parwj

Quote from Raman on STV

 

Only his opinion though.....

 

Looking into crystal ball: new Premiership season starts late August/September. Championship starts October - 18 games max per club. League 1 League 2 struggle to start at all. If so, next season’s Scottish Cup has only Prem and Champ teams. No fans in stadia before Feb next year

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Geoff Kilpatrick
17 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

:Agree:

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doctor jambo
1 minute ago, parwj said:

Quote from Raman on STV

 

Only his opinion though.....

 

Looking into crystal ball: new Premiership season starts late August/September. Championship starts October - 18 games max per club. League 1 League 2 struggle to start at all. If so, next season’s Scottish Cup has only Prem and Champ teams. No fans in stadia before Feb next year

It cannot work.

To start in October every championship club would need to sack all their players and staff, then recruit entire new teams for the restart at the last minute.

Then Sturgeon changes her mind and they sack all their staff again.

its a mass extinction event unfolding before our eyes, 

we have been thrown into oblivion - it’s stay in top flight , or bust

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Saughton Jambo
4 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said:

Aye do they though. Do you think when they were desperate to sign Paul Pogba, his lawyer would not review a contract before he signed it. He would say get that clause our of there or I am going somewhere else. Contracts are negotiated and will be give and take and likely to end up being bespoke, especially at a club like Man U.

It’s straight across the board and applies to all.  Check it out yourself. I’m sure it’ll be on google somewhere. You don’t sign it then you don’t get to play for Man U. It’s that simple. Sanchez dropped £125k per week when they missed CL qualification 

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Paint the town maroon
1 hour ago, MCW1976 said:


I agree.

 

The SPFL are otherwise asking the third biggest club in Scotland, with an average attendance of 16,000, who were demoted due to a global pandemic (with 24 points to play for), to then play in a division that cannot fulfil its fixture list.

 

That, plus be happy to have Hamilton and Ross County and St Mirren struggle to survive in a Premiership that is screaming out for Hearts to be there (financially, if nothing else).

 

By the day, this is getting more and more comical - and more and more likely that Hearts will be ‘asked’ to come back into the Premiership by the SPFL. 
 

I hope Hearts say that they will at least think about it - and get back to the SPFL within 51 days with an answer.

 

 


Fanciful but funny 👍

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brunoatemyhamster
6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It cannot work.

To start in October every championship club would need to sack all their players and staff, then recruit entire new teams for the restart at the last minute.

Then Sturgeon changes her mind and they sack all their staff again.

its a mass extinction event unfolding before our eyes, 

we have been thrown into oblivion - it’s stay in top flight , or bust

Recruit a new team with no money on top off that. 

 

It's stay in the top flight or bust. You're bang on. 

 

And if we're going down this way, I want us to take the whole show with us. 

 

It's what they wanted at the end of the day. 

 

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davemclaren
55 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

If the games are played behind closed doors, I’m not sure where the financial benefit of having us in the league comes from.  
 

 

We can sell more virtual tickets than most if games are streamed. 

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Jambof3tornado
7 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


You didn’t say no external debt, you said no debt.  We’re not debt free but have no external debt.

 

Demotion is not up in the air - we’ve been officially demoted!  There is a tiny chance of us being in the Premiership next season, I can’t believe you’re being so flippant about it when our very existence could be at threat.  If we play next season in a Championship starting in August behind closed doors it will be catastrophic for the club. 

There is a bigger chance of us being in the top league next season given the possibility that other leagues wont run at all.

 

There is a million miles to go before we have a clue whats happening.

 

Either way Hearts will survive. Worst case scenario we strip back costs as far as possible, divert foh subs to daily running costs and mystery benefactors put their hands in their pockets.

 

Not sure anybody is being flippant.

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rory78

Partick Thistle have been royally ****ed up over this they should never have been relegated either and now they're facing the prospect of NO football next season so basically stuck in League 1 for two years 

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buzzbomb

“There is a willingness to help them out of this hole. Scottish football can’t afford to sit back and do nothing if it means losing a club of this size.
 

This is why I want to go to court. I don’t want it being like they’ve done us a favour. I want a grovelling apology.

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Fozzyonthefence
2 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

There is a bigger chance of us being in the top league next season given the possibility that other leagues wont run at all.

 

There is a million miles to go before we have a clue whats happening.

 

Either way Hearts will survive. Worst case scenario we strip back costs as far as possible, divert foh subs to daily running costs and mystery benefactors put their hands in their pockets.

 

Not sure anybody is being flippant.


Some don’t think it is is a problem if we play in the Championship because we’ve got FOH.  And if the benefactors don’t put their hands in their pockets?   They’re living in a fantasy world.  We would be the worst affected in the Championship by far. 

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Paint the town maroon

On reconstruction. Not sure if this has been raised before - I know the focus is on the 11-1 likely vote but the Championship need to vote 75% in favour.

 

The right and wrongs of ICT position is one we shouldn’t underestimate. It was clear from

the EGM vote that only ICT voted in favour and the rest were all against.The bun fight in the media with endless statements between ICT and other clubs has driven what look like a huge divide. 
 

Assuming ICT would ‘benefit’ from reconstruction, I would expect a lot of tactical voting against them? Have I called that wrong?

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Harry Potter
23 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

We have owners of DIddy FC saying they cannot survive without fans, we have others putting forward proposals for 18-game leagues and we are supposed to be putting forward reconstruction proposals in the midst of this shambles?

 

The lack of leadership in our game is nothing short of a National Disgrace.

There is no leadership, its akin to a rudderless ship which knows no direction.,i have always said we were run by clowns, 

its certainly very obvious now.

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MCW1976
2 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:

On reconstruction. Not sure if this has been raised before - I know the focus is on the 11-1 likely vote but the Championship need to vote 75% in favour.

 

The right and wrongs of ICT position is one we shouldn’t underestimate. It was clear from

the EGM vote that only ICT voted in favour and the rest were all against.The bun fight in the media with endless statements between ICT and other clubs has driven what look like a huge divide. 
 

Assuming ICT would ‘benefit’ from reconstruction, I would expect a lot of tactical voting against them? Have I called that wrong?


I think that part of the pantomime has already played out.

 

Now we’re onto the stage where clubs - who were feeling empowered a couple of weeks ago - are reaping the harvest of their 15 minutes of fame.

 

 

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Paint the town maroon
2 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

“There is a willingness to help them out of this hole. Scottish football can’t afford to sit back and do nothing if it means losing a club of this size.
 

This is why I want to go to court. I don’t want it being like they’ve done us a favour. I want a grovelling apology.


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.

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DETTY29

So by reading the article and the source, Ann Budge is doing all Doncaster's real work by speaking to clubs individually, understanding the impact of Covid19 and coming up with a proposal.

 

Effing hell.

 

That's the real effing c u next tuesday-ing to take from the Record article and has been for weeks but being ignored by all, including on here.

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jambopilms

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 

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rory78
1 minute ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 

It doesn't look like the French clubs are all about to go down the toilet like here - only way to save the game here is reconstruction or its tatty bye to a lot of clubs,once again saying it but how come this wasn't all discussed weeks ago??didn't need a rocket scientist to work out that footy will have no crowd for a large part of next season thus meaning less income for clubs 🤷‍♂️ 

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Deevers
2 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.

Sorry it’s not only unfair, it’s also unlawful. They have voted to expel us from the league before all the seasons fixtures could be completed and now put us in a position where our ability to operate commercially is under threat. It’s a clear case of unlawful restriction of trade. It would be a totally different matter if the season had been completed and we had been bottom and in the relegation position. That was not the case. That position I think is going to be hammered home to them shortly.

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Whatever
2 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 


:laugh2: It hasn’t been thrown out.

 

The administrative court in Paris has passed it on to the National court as they didn’t feel they had the jurisdiction to make decisions on national matters.

 

 

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/paris-court-abdicates-responsibility-to-rule-on-amiens-toulouse-referred-to-national-court/

 

 

 

 

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brunoatemyhamster
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

So by reading the article and the source, Ann Budge is doing all Doncaster's real work by speaking to clubs individually, understanding the impact of Covid19 and coming up with a proposal.

 

Effing hell.

 

That's the real effing c u next tuesday-ing to take from the Record article and has been for weeks but being ignored by all, including on here.

She should have been nowhere near any of these discussions.she should have laid the blame for this somewhere else. 

 

Is that not what he gets paid the big bucks for? Matters that effect  Premiership clubs?

 

 

Not picking sides and canvassing Dundee in the championship. 

 

 

 

Edited by brunoatemyhamster

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.


We won’t be challenging it on unfairness or dodgy deals we can’t prove.  It will be challenged on the principles of company law having been broken.  
 

It’s irrelevant if 81% of clubs voted for it if the vote was deemed unlawful.  The vote itself was unnecessarily linked to payments being made and other options were not explored, there was a lack of duty of care to the member clubs. A senior QC has already given his opinion on the legality of the vote and there are other points we can challenge on too.  What more do you want, a written guarantee from a judge?

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Fozzyonthefence
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 


That’s completely irrelevant.  We’re not fighting the same fight.  Our main arguments will not be based on sporting fairness but on company law.  The French court has just kicked the can down the road,  they didn’t have jurisdiction to rule on it apparently which won’t be a problem for us.

Edited by Fozzyonthefence

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Biffa Bacon
41 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s straight across the board and applies to all.  Check it out yourself. I’m sure it’ll be on google somewhere. You don’t sign it then you don’t get to play for Man U. It’s that simple. Sanchez dropped £125k per week when they missed CL qualification 

I found after googling 

22 Aug 2019 · But according to The Sun, United are looking to insert a clause in any new contracts offers which would reduce a player's wage by 25% if they miss out on the Champions League. 

Not convinced, it is according to the Sun, looking to insert, new contract offers.... it's up to each player when offered a new contract if it's acceptable to them.

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Hungry hippo
8 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 

 

Even if it had been thrown out (which it hasn't) it would be irrelevant to a case under law in this country.

 

Fortunately for us, the the SPFL's lawyers are aware we have a strong case which is why they would suddenly love a compromise when previously they wanted to "move on".

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NB GIN
52 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said:

Aye do they though. Do you think when they were desperate to sign Paul Pogba, his lawyer would not review a contract before he signed it. He would say get that clause our of there or I am going somewhere else. Contracts are negotiated and will be give and take and likely to end up being bespoke, especially at a club like Man U.

This 100% the contracts at Man Utd are the very worse you will see.

Sanchez and pogba are on goal assisted and goal scoring contracts which other team members do not get .... eye watering contracts 

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DETTY29
4 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

She should have been nowhere near any of these discussions.she should have  Laid the blame for this somewhere else. 

 

That's what he gets paid the big bucks for. Matters that effect  SPFL clubs. 

 

Not canvassing Dundee in the championship. 

 

 

 

Its ridiculous that a guy who needs Lawwell to hold his hand through TV negotiations is pretty much nothing more than an exceptionally highly paid pen pusher who takes a bit of flack when the role should be all about strategy, leadership and drive.

 

This is the guy who 'just happened' to have a phone call meeting organised and had to leave the room when Barry Hearn took to the floor to tell us many of the things wrong with the set up and marketing of the game in Scotland.

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Hood09

Sky’s input is interesting 👀

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, Deevers said:

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

 

It must be a reasonable possibility they could include that in any court action.

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Newton51
1 minute ago, Hood09 said:

Sky’s input is interesting 👀


what is their thoughts?

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kila
15 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Sorry it’s not only unfair, it’s also unlawful. They have voted to expel us from the league before all the seasons fixtures could be completed and now put us in a position where our ability to operate commercially is under threat. It’s a clear case of unlawful restriction of trade. It would be a totally different matter if the season had been completed and we had been bottom and in the relegation position. That was not the case. That position I think is going to be hammered home to them shortly.


:spoton:

 

 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
17 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Sorry it’s not only unfair, it’s also unlawful. They have voted to expel us from the league before all the seasons fixtures could be completed and now put us in a position where our ability to operate commercially is under threat. It’s a clear case of unlawful restriction of trade. It would be a totally different matter if the season had been completed and we had been bottom and in the relegation position. That was not the case. That position I think is going to be hammered home to them shortly.

Correct. And Budge is giving them an out by proposing reconstruction.

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5-1Jambo
1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

I wouldn't think this would be a difficult point to make to a judge that

a) they changed the rules to expel us on the basis of an incomplete season.

b) they are changing the championship and removing any reduced income stream.

 

I could see a hefty damages award out of that as a minimum to make the SPFL's eyes water.

You would hope that a judge might ask why the likelihood that the Championship being shortened, hence putting pro clubs at risk, was only made public a week after ending the season. Surely this information would have had an impact on the way teams voted. 

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Nookie Bear
4 minutes ago, Hood09 said:

Sky’s input is interesting 👀


?

 

 

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Stendelsarmy
26 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.

 

Voted for it in what was a shambles of a vote with bullying, coercion and lies throughout. Might not stand up to scrutiny in Court.

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kila
Just now, Newton51 said:

what is their thoughts?


I imagine they want as many subs as possible to help get them going again. Scottish game is undersold, not as if every EPL game gets massive viewing figures.

 

Also this is Sky’s new exclusive contract. Without Hearts there is less exciting games for them to sell. Surely they would want more big games? Hearts v Rangers, Hearts v Celtic, Hearts v Hibs, Hearts v Aberdeen.

I’d imagine had the season been completed and Hearts relegated Sky would be sighing helplessly. But that’s not where we are at. 

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1971fozzy
42 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Partick Thistle have been royally ****ed up over this they should never have been relegated either and now they're facing the prospect of NO football next season so basically stuck in League 1 for two years 


our own position aside , it’s an absolute disgrace what’s happened to PT. 

They have been shafted rotten and it’s hard to see them surviving if honest. Think we have problems ?

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rory78
1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:


our own position aside , it’s an absolute disgrace what’s happened to PT. 

They have been shafted rotten and it’s hard to see them surviving if honest. Think we have problems ?

Exactly could be the first to go unless things are changed

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wavydavy
1 minute ago, rory78 said:

Exactly could be the first to go unless things are changed

They are in much better shape than many other clubs financially. Weir looked after them with his legacy.

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husref musemic
36 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

There is no leadership, its akin to a rudderless ship which knows no direction.,i have always said we were run by clowns, 

its certainly very obvious now.

The league is run by celtic. we're just collateral damage in their means to an end.

 

SPFL are just puppets.

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stirlo
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, kila said:


I imagine they want as many subs as possible to help get them going again. Scottish game is undersold, not as if every EPL game gets massive viewing figures.

 

Also this is Sky’s new exclusive contract. Without Hearts there is less exciting games for them to sell. Surely they would want more big games? Hearts v Rangers, Hearts v Celtic, Hearts v Hibs, Hearts v Aberdeen.

I’d imagine had the season been completed and Hearts relegated Sky would be sighing helplessly. But that’s not where we are at. 

 

You'd have thought this is correct but I heard Neil McCann on the radio recently saying  that basically what Sky care about is they get their 4 Old Firm games.  

Edited by stirlo

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