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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


Heres Rixxy

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4 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

She should have been nowhere near any of these discussions.she should have  Laid the blame for this somewhere else. 

 

That's what he gets paid the big bucks for. Matters that effect  SPFL clubs. 

 

Not canvassing Dundee in the championship. 

 

 

 

Its ridiculous that a guy who needs Lawwell to hold his hand through TV negotiations is pretty much nothing more than an exceptionally highly paid pen pusher who takes a bit of flack when the role should be all about strategy, leadership and drive.

 

This is the guy who 'just happened' to have a phone call meeting organised and had to leave the room when Barry Hearn took to the floor to tell us many of the things wrong with the set up and marketing of the game in Scotland.

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, Deevers said:

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

 

It must be a reasonable possibility they could include that in any court action.

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15 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Sorry it’s not only unfair, it’s also unlawful. They have voted to expel us from the league before all the seasons fixtures could be completed and now put us in a position where our ability to operate commercially is under threat. It’s a clear case of unlawful restriction of trade. It would be a totally different matter if the season had been completed and we had been bottom and in the relegation position. That was not the case. That position I think is going to be hammered home to them shortly.


:spoton:

 

 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
17 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Sorry it’s not only unfair, it’s also unlawful. They have voted to expel us from the league before all the seasons fixtures could be completed and now put us in a position where our ability to operate commercially is under threat. It’s a clear case of unlawful restriction of trade. It would be a totally different matter if the season had been completed and we had been bottom and in the relegation position. That was not the case. That position I think is going to be hammered home to them shortly.

Correct. And Budge is giving them an out by proposing reconstruction.

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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

I wouldn't think this would be a difficult point to make to a judge that

a) they changed the rules to expel us on the basis of an incomplete season.

b) they are changing the championship and removing any reduced income stream.

 

I could see a hefty damages award out of that as a minimum to make the SPFL's eyes water.

You would hope that a judge might ask why the likelihood that the Championship being shortened, hence putting pro clubs at risk, was only made public a week after ending the season. Surely this information would have had an impact on the way teams voted. 

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Stendelsarmy
26 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.

 

Voted for it in what was a shambles of a vote with bullying, coercion and lies throughout. Might not stand up to scrutiny in Court.

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Just now, Newton51 said:

what is their thoughts?


I imagine they want as many subs as possible to help get them going again. Scottish game is undersold, not as if every EPL game gets massive viewing figures.

 

Also this is Sky’s new exclusive contract. Without Hearts there is less exciting games for them to sell. Surely they would want more big games? Hearts v Rangers, Hearts v Celtic, Hearts v Hibs, Hearts v Aberdeen.

I’d imagine had the season been completed and Hearts relegated Sky would be sighing helplessly. But that’s not where we are at. 

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42 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Partick Thistle have been royally ****ed up over this they should never have been relegated either and now they're facing the prospect of NO football next season so basically stuck in League 1 for two years 


our own position aside , it’s an absolute disgrace what’s happened to PT. 

They have been shafted rotten and it’s hard to see them surviving if honest. Think we have problems ?

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1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:


our own position aside , it’s an absolute disgrace what’s happened to PT. 

They have been shafted rotten and it’s hard to see them surviving if honest. Think we have problems ?

Exactly could be the first to go unless things are changed

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1 minute ago, rory78 said:

Exactly could be the first to go unless things are changed

They are in much better shape than many other clubs financially. Weir looked after them with his legacy.

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husref musemic
36 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

There is no leadership, its akin to a rudderless ship which knows no direction.,i have always said we were run by clowns, 

its certainly very obvious now.

The league is run by celtic. we're just collateral damage in their means to an end.

 

SPFL are just puppets.

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10 minutes ago, kila said:


I imagine they want as many subs as possible to help get them going again. Scottish game is undersold, not as if every EPL game gets massive viewing figures.

 

Also this is Sky’s new exclusive contract. Without Hearts there is less exciting games for them to sell. Surely they would want more big games? Hearts v Rangers, Hearts v Celtic, Hearts v Hibs, Hearts v Aberdeen.

I’d imagine had the season been completed and Hearts relegated Sky would be sighing helplessly. But that’s not where we are at. 

 

You'd have thought this is correct but I heard Neil McCann on the radio recently saying  that basically what Sky care about is they get their 4 Old Firm games.  

Edited by stirlo
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53 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Partick Thistle have been royally ****ed up over this they should never have been relegated either and now they're facing the prospect of NO football next season so basically stuck in League 1 for two years 

Exactly.  On what planet is this ever okay.      Their member clubs actually voted for this.   Absolute bonkers. 

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chrisyboy7
1 minute ago, stirlo said:

 

You'd have thought this is correct but I heard Neil McCann on the radio recently saying  that basically what Sky care about is they get their 4 Old Firm games.  

Sky are very short sighted then as the Edinburgh derby is a hugely watched game.  They would surely want to maximise advertising revenue when shoeing these games. 

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Worthing Jambo
9 minutes ago, kila said:


I imagine they want as many subs as possible to help get them going again. Scottish game is undersold, not as if every EPL game gets massive viewing figures.

 

Also this is Sky’s new exclusive contract. Without Hearts there is less exciting games for them to sell. Surely they would want more big games? Hearts v Rangers, Hearts v Celtic, Hearts v Hibs, Hearts v Aberdeen.

I’d imagine had the season been completed and Hearts relegated Sky would be sighing helplessly. But that’s not where we are at. 

Sky don’t give a stuff about any clubs other than the arse cheeks.

Have you watched their coverage?

They do nothing to enhance Scottish football and in fact they do their best to make it look tin pot.

As they now have an exclusive agreement I would think that they won’t want any other Scottish games shown, other than their pick, on any platform.

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I was almost resigned to accepting getting kicked out.  We played our own part in it, but the decision was still wrong and dreadful, as we wouldhave had time to possibly repair the self inflicted damaged, but as I said, almost resigned to accepting it would happen, whilst supporting any legal action the club would take, though with no certainty we would win it.  All clubs are in it for themselves, so it should not have been a surprise. Especially when the SPFL only gave and considered one action.   That alone meant most clubs were only ever going to vote in favour, as they believed it would be financial decimation if they didn’t. 
 

No football in the lower leagues would be nonsense, though,  and would be a real game changer, possibly in our favour.  
 

If other leagues in the SPFL are playing, then it is clear that they, and the Government think it is safe to do so.   You cannot stop us as a club/company from trading because others cannot, even if it is deemed not their fault.  It is restrictive to us, and our employees (not just playing staff).  There would be numerous litigation possibilities, and we would have far. Ore meat on our legal case.  It would be like telling one business they cannot reopen legally, because some others in their field aren’t ready too. Football is no different. 

 

The above financial decimation will still happen, so some clubs, though mainly lower leagues ones, may change their mind, if given the opportunity.  
 

as for UEFA or FIFA, there rules may say we can’t take legal action, but it can’t stop us. It may mean no European football for us.  I can deal with that.   It may mean the National side being suspended, or other clubs,   I certainly won’t lose sleep over that.  

Edited by Paolo
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1 hour ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s straight across the board and applies to all.  Check it out yourself. I’m sure it’ll be on google somewhere. You don’t sign it then you don’t get to play for Man U. It’s that simple. Sanchez dropped £125k per week when they missed CL qualification 

Apologies if already covered, but where you or selkirkjambo able to share what info you had both heard on Thursday?

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Neverforgetfiveone
6 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said:

Exactly.  On what planet is this ever okay.      Their member clubs actually voted for this.   Absolute bonkers. 

On the Daily Record planet! **** all better to write about so why not start some more scaremongering! 

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1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

We don't even have the usual win incentives written into the contracts, and 2 of the senior players be were given golden tickets to train at home. It's no surprise looking back, that the other teams at the bottom 'wanted' it more.

AB is all about fairness and being PC. The living wage for all employees is fair enough but structuring a football players contract to give them a guaranteed solid basic with little to no bonuses to incentivise them is making a rod for your own back. Little to no ambition and drive in our teams for years now, ******* soft as an old mans boaby. Ann, you saved us but due to the above an blind faith in you know who has taken us right back to the brink again! Please get us out of this aufie deep hole given today’s news of the Championship possibly being shelved for the foreseeable. #ManyABenefactorRequired😢

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John Findlay
8 minutes ago, stirlo said:

 

You'd have thought this is correct but I heard Neil McCann on the radio recently saying  that basically what Sky care about is they get their 4 Old Firm games.  

You know even Neil McCann's opinion can be wrong. Sky know their market and yes 4 OF games is desirable, but Sky also know that the Edinburgh derby and Hearts against any of the OF and Aberdeen are big draws. Their viewing figures tell them that. 

Sky in turn let their potential advertisers know this. 

Heart of Midlothian are a big draw for Sky.

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19 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Correct. And Budge is giving them an out by proposing reconstruction.

Exactly - and  it is not as that complete tosser Jackson is trying to imply. I heard the other day that Doncaster had spoken to several club chairmen and informed then in no uncertain terms what the estimated cost of court action would be to them.  It will be interesting now to see if common sense triumphs over spite and malice. What ever happens I think that Mrs Budge is up for the fight if it comes to that.

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5 minutes ago, Worthing Jambo said:

Sky don’t give a stuff about any clubs other than the arse cheeks.

Have you watched their coverage?

They do nothing to enhance Scottish football and in fact they do their best to make it look tin pot.

As they now have an exclusive agreement I would think that they won’t want any other Scottish games shown, other than their pick, on any platform.


Are some BT Sport production folk not moving over to Sky though? I’m not expecting miracles but hoping they’d put in a bit more effort given their ratings compared to BT.

 

The Old Firm obsession on Sky is part of the TV deal though. If Doncaster cared about the game and wanted it portrayed in the best light he’d try harder.

 

My point though is coming out of CV19 Sky is under more pressure to sell a product worth watching. Being OF TV will only get them so far, and a lot just watch on illegal streams anyway. I don’t see why Sky would be happy with less glamorous games given they are now sole payer and not sharing costs with BT anymore. 
 

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1 hour ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

Recruit a new team with no money on top off that. 

 

It's stay in the top flight or bust. You're bang on. 

 

And if we're going down this way, I want us to take the whole show with us. 

 

It's what they wanted at the end of the day. 

 

Absolutely,  with our current pay structure I remember from the eighties hearts players I believe were pretty basis wage with the incentives for getting points on the board. To me whether it’s appearance / win bonuses is a far better structure. 

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1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

You know even Neil McCann's opinion can be wrong. Sky know their market and yes 4 OF games is desirable, but Sky also know that the Edinburgh derby and Hearts against any of the OF and Aberdeen are big draws. Their viewing figures tell them that. 

Sky in turn let their potential advertisers know this. 

Heart of Midlothian are a big draw for Sky.

 

I absolutely agree with you - you'd think that a Hearts-Celtic game is a much easier match to promote than a Hamilton-Celtic game. But McCann has worked with Sky for a number of years so you'd have thought it might be more than just his opinion.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

It cannot work.

To start in October every championship club would need to sack all their players and staff, then recruit entire new teams for the restart at the last minute.

Then Sturgeon changes her mind and they sack all their staff again.

its a mass extinction event unfolding before our eyes, 

we have been thrown into oblivion - it’s stay in top flight , or bust

I hope you’re right,  does furlough not go to October though which may help smaller clubs  not playing if they decided to use that option not Dunfermline though !

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16 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

Sky are very short sighted then as the Edinburgh derby is a hugely watched game.  They would surely want to maximise advertising revenue when shoeing these games. 

After OF games the highest viewed games are when the uglies visit us. Then it’s the Edinburgh derbies. 

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1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


The Premiership is looking to start with closed doors games, in fact it will have to for the new tv deal. The tv deal that this whole farce has been about.  Why do you think they won’t?


One thing I’ve been thinking about these “closed door games” that are then planned on being streamed.

 

Whos hosting the stream? Sky?

 

If clubs genuinely believe they’ve got website servers that could handle thousands of fans live streaming simultaneously then I think they’re deluded.

 

Im the last few weeks alone I’ve seen the Inverness, Partick and Dundee websites completely crash under the sheer volume of traffic as people attempt to read their statements.

 

Its not easy nor is it cheap to set up decent live streaming services with a high capacity of viewers.

 

Unless it’s sky that do the streaming, I think it’s a non starter. It would be a cluster**** of loads of fans paying for the game then it wouldn’t load. 
 

Christ Hearts tv struggles enough with their bloody commentary connection half the time! 

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Fozzyonthefence
26 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


our own position aside , it’s an absolute disgrace what’s happened to PT. 

They have been shafted rotten and it’s hard to see them surviving if honest. Think we have problems ?


You would think so but apparently they are saying they can cope with playing league 1 behind closed doors (read that yesterday but can’t remember where).  Presumably Weir, the lottery winner left them a fair bit cash.  Which makes it stranger that they didn’t pursue the legal route to be honest after the Dundee voting shambles and their QC advice.  Perhaps they’re ready to do that, along with us if reconstruction fails.

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Hungry hippo
18 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Apologies if already covered, but where you or selkirkjambo able to share what info you had both heard on Thursday?

 

To answer on SJ's behalf he said yesterday he won't share whatever the info is until it's been verified and not been able to do so yet.

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SectionDJambo
5 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

The league is run by celtic. we're just collateral damage in their means to an end.

 

SPFL are just puppets.

It's hard to argue against the belief that the SPFL is run by Celtic, for the benefit of Celtic,  with a few crumbs thrown around for clubs like St Mirren and Hibs,  to keep them onside.

This whole current scenario of clubs not being able to operate behind closed doors, should have been part of a wide ranging discussion, hosted by the SPFL board, at the time of the Good Friday vote fiasco. Instead, awarding Celtic the title, and looking after the self interest of a few board friendly clubs, took precidence over trying to protect the whole entity of the SPFL. Doncaster has been shown up to be nothing but a Lawwell puppet, with no initiative or drive to help the member clubs he gets paid handsomely to represent. He should be the subject of a vote of no confidence by the clubs, but the Celtic cabal will prevent this.

For any faults that Ann Budge may have had in her overseeing of the football at Tynecastle, she is the only person with the courage, and necessary thick skin, to try to show some leadership by actually communicating with the clubs to try to find a solution to the dire straits Scottish football is in. Yet, some clubs have the brass neck to accuse her of only having self interest at heart, when they have been happy to expose other clubs to financial ruin in an attempt to gain an advantage.

We haven't heard a peep from Dempster, or her task force, since the "hub" nonsense, which only catered for her club and the rest of the Premiership, when we were told it would be seeking a solution for all the clubs. 

The SPFL, and those of it's member clubs who blindly or fearfully follow them, are certainly the laughing stock in this.

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davemclaren
5 minutes ago, Squirt said:


One thing I’ve been thinking about these “closed door games” that are then planned on being streamed.

 

Whos hosting the stream? Sky?

 

If clubs genuinely believe they’ve got website servers that could handle thousands of fans live streaming simultaneously then I think they’re deluded.

 

Im the last few weeks alone I’ve seen the Inverness, Partick and Dundee websites completely crash under the sheer volume of traffic as people attempt to read their statements.

 

Its not easy nor is it cheap to set up decent live streaming services with a high capacity of viewers.

 

Unless it’s sky that do the streaming, I think it’s a non starter. It would be a cluster**** of loads of fans paying for the game then it wouldn’t load. 
 

Christ Hearts tv struggles enough with their bloody commentary connection half the time! 

That is a good point but servers are easy to add and there is a few months to do it. Most clubs will only have a few thousand wiling to pay to view. 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That is a good point but servers are easy to add and there is a few months to do it. Most clubs will only have a few thousand wiling to pay to view. 

I think if it's the difference between having a club or not people will pay. 

 

It seems to me one of the affordable things we could all do.

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Fozzyonthefence
2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

After OF games the highest viewed games are when the uglies visit us. Then it’s the Edinburgh derbies. 


There was a post yesterday or day before saying only 58,000 watched the last Edinburgh derby (I’m not sure if that was correct or referring to one a few seasons ago where I saw that same figure).  Way more watch Rangers and Celtic normal away league games than this so I think we’re overstating our importance to Sky, it really is all about these two for them. Even when Sevco joined the 4th tier all their away games were live. 

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doctor jambo
3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That is a good point but servers are easy to add and there is a few months to do it. Most clubs will only have a few thousand wiling to pay to view. 

Unless it’s an SPFL season ticket- full access to all games, all monies divided equally , to ensure all clubs survive?

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31 minutes ago, Paolo said:

as for UEFA or FIFA, there rules may say we can’t take legal action, but it can’t stop us. It may mean no European football for us.  I can deal with that.   It may mean the National side being suspended, or other clubs,   I certainly won’t lose sleep over that.  

Must admit I agree. If and it’s a big if, its Hearts or the SFA, then it’s clearly Hearts survival that counts. I’m renewing my season ticket as are the guys I go with. I know it’s difficult for many of us, but the more cash we can raise the better chance we have of getting through this.

Edited by OldGorgie
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Worthing Jambo
18 minutes ago, kila said:


Are some BT Sport production folk not moving over to Sky though? I’m not expecting miracles but hoping they’d put in a bit more effort given their ratings compared to BT.

 

The Old Firm obsession on Sky is part of the TV deal though. If Doncaster cared about the game and wanted it portrayed in the best light he’d try harder.

 

My point though is coming out of CV19 Sky is under more pressure to sell a product worth watching. Being OF TV will only get them so far, and a lot just watch on illegal streams anyway. I don’t see why Sky would be happy with less glamorous games given they are now sole payer and not sharing costs with BT anymore. 
 

The BT coverage was far superior to Sky.

In the current economic climate I can only see Sky looking to cut costs rather than invest.

As the Sky insider on here says, they are gaining more subscribers per month than they lose, so there is no incentive for them to invest any more resources into Scottish football.

As long as they have their OF tv they are happy.

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John Findlay
4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


There was a post yesterday or day before saying only 58,000 watched the last Edinburgh derby (I’m not sure if that was correct or referring to one a few seasons ago where I saw that same figure).  Way more watch Rangers and Celtic normal away league games than this so I think we’re overstating our importance to Sky, it really is all about these two for them. Even when Sevco joined the 4th tier all their away games were live. 

You are the most pessimistic person I've ever seen post on here. BT covered the last Edinburgh derby. Do your homework and stop spouting total Tom Kite.

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11 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

 

 

11 hours ago, Jambo66 said:

I would love to understand in which parallel universe clubs think that they can say the equivalent of "it's ma ba, and I'm no playing" and not suffer consequences.

 

If clubs refuse to play when it is safe to do so, they should be thrown out of the SPFL immediately.

 

10 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

I'm confident there's going to be Hearts at the end of this.

 

You can't stop teams from playing so long as it is safe to do so. 

 

The government may well have a part to play,  not financially but providing a bit of support in negotiations with tv companies. 

 

They indicated as such in England,  Scottish government need to get real  and not for sake of football,  all of us.

 

All the talk is ignoring the Joint Response Group looking at hubs to play games and possible TV season tickets etc. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That is a good point but servers are easy to add and there is a few months to do it. Most clubs will only have a few thousand wiling to pay to view. 


Depends how it’s administrated but I’d argue every club has to be able to deal with, at least, 50,000 old firm fans trying to watch on your clubs site, because at some point you’ll be playing them and their fans will want to watch.

 

If it’s just the premiership as well, I could easily see myself paying for 2/3 games and watching them side by side. Doubt I’d be the only one either.

 

i just think it’s something that hasn’t been spoken about enough by the media. Ideas and different thinking is great but I’ve heard nothing about how it would be implemented.

Edited by Squirt
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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

All the talk is ignoring the Joint Response Group looking at hubs to play games and possible TV season tickets etc. 

 

 

With every reason. I know you like linking anything you find but forgive me for ignoring Petrie and co.

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10 hours ago, jamtartan74 said:

Was thinking about the 14 team SPFL and 7/7 split, it leaves a team from each end without a game one week, well why not work it so that the two teams who are not involved that week play each other, not for points or anything but as a kind of friendly match at a venue by toss of coin for home or away or whatever, then at the end of the season all these ‘friendly’ matches that have taken place the revenue goes into 1 big pot and split between every club evenly. Ok the games might not be very attractive for the supporters but any money made is better than no money. Just a thought I had so that there wasn’t any teams sitting out a fixture, probably a shite idea but hey ho. 

 

6 /8 split seems more likely. 

 

Partly to give bottom teams an extra home game to compensate for losing an old firm game. 

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davemclaren
8 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Unless it’s an SPFL season ticket- full access to all games, all monies divided equally , to ensure all clubs survive?

🧐😄

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24 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

To answer on SJ's behalf he said yesterday he won't share whatever the info is until it's been verified and not been able to do so yet.

Cheers

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49 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

They are in much better shape than many other clubs financially. Weir looked after them with his legacy.

I imagine if he was still around he would have bankrolled the best legal time you could find.

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Selkirkhmfc1874
44 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Apologies if already covered, but where you or selkirkjambo able to share what info you had both heard on Thursday?

I've left it to saughton to share but we both heard same 

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johnthomas
38 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

You know even Neil McCann's opinion can be wrong. Sky know their market and yes 4 OF games is desirable, but Sky also know that the Edinburgh derby and Hearts against any of the OF and Aberdeen are big draws. Their viewing figures tell them that. 

Sky in turn let their potential advertisers know this. 

Heart of Midlothian are a big draw for Sky.

What are the viewing figures for Hearts games compared to of ?

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Worthing Jambo
1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

I've left it to saughton to share but we both heard same 

Just a tiny, tiny wee hint then.

Go on, you know you want to.

😁

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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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