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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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8 hours ago, Barack said:

 

So, to summarise...if Hearts go ta-ra...then expect virtually every club in the lower leagues...PLUS, the likes of St. Johnstone, Accies, St. Mirren and possibly Hibs, to go bye bye too. If WE can't survive...!

So...vote for reconstruction, or say goodnight.

 

 

Sound advice for all clubs. That’s of course if you believe the DR has access to our financial records. Personally the only use I can see the DR has is picking up dog shit.

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7 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Sound advice for all clubs. That’s of course if you believe the DR has access to our financial records. Personally the only use I can see the DR has is picking up dog shit.


You have zero respect for dog shit!

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Unknown user

Do we really need pubs back when we can get pished and embarrass ourselves  in public from the comfort of our own homes?

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chrisyboy7
15 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


I agree.

 

The SPFL are otherwise asking the third biggest club in Scotland, with an average attendance of 16,000, who were demoted due to a global pandemic (with 24 points to play for), to then play in a division that cannot fulfil its fixture list.

 

That, plus be happy to have Hamilton and Ross County and St Mirren struggle to survive in a Premiership that is screaming out for Hearts to be there (financially, if nothing else).

 

By the day, this is getting more and more comical - and more and more likely that Hearts will be ‘asked’ to come back into the Premiership by the SPFL. 
 

I hope Hearts say that they will at least think about it - and get back to the SPFL within 51 days with an answer.

 

 

This us brilliant 

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9 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

So, if we are in the Championship who do you think would be relegated from the Premiership next year?

Ah that’s the sixty four thousand dollar question. I don’t trust any of the present lot in the premiership just now. I would not rule out them trying to have no relegation next season. I reckon the jealousy some of them have for our club over rides everything else including fair play and common sense.  Some of them would love to see us completely screwed. I hope we take them to the cleaners and some of them fold. 

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6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's a global pandemic and we've just been unfairly demoted with 8 games to go. We've got every justification for cutting costs and will be able to find a way. Many players have relegation clauses. No player is going to expect to get his full Premiership salary with us in these conditions. 

Man Utd have a clause in their players wagers that if they don’t qualify for the champions league then their wages will be reduced by 25% and players have to sign this agreement as it’s written into their contract.
 

We should be asserting our own clause into future contracts and caveat them by saying that if we don’t finish at least 4th or qualify for the europa league then players salaries will reduce by 25%. Written into a players contract at least shows ambition and a harder line taken by management. Our last 3 playing squads  have woefully lacked ambition for a while and this has been the worst ever in the last 40 years! 
 

Hopefully we address our recruitment department when we overhaul this years squad yet again 

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gashauskis9
17 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


I agree.

 

The SPFL are otherwise asking the third biggest club in Scotland, with an average attendance of 16,000, who were demoted due to a global pandemic (with 24 points to play for), to then play in a division that cannot fulfil its fixture list.

 

That, plus be happy to have Hamilton and Ross County and St Mirren struggle to survive in a Premiership that is screaming out for Hearts to be there (financially, if nothing else).

 

By the day, this is getting more and more comical - and more and more likely that Hearts will be ‘asked’ to come back into the Premiership by the SPFL. 
 

I hope Hearts say that they will at least think about it - and get back to the SPFL within 51 days with an answer.

 

 

If the games are played behind closed doors, I’m not sure where the financial benefit of having us in the league comes from.  
 

 

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Fozzyonthefence
5 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Sorry I'm not slitting my wrists for you. I assumed most Hearts fans would know that meant external debt, which is the debt to worry about. We're as likely to be fine as anyone, and have more reasons to be optimistic than many, even most, clubs in Scotland. League reconstruction is still on the table no matter what you think. We will then likely sue for damages if not.


Don’t try to twist it - you said Hearts had no debt which was wrong.

 

You seem to be living in a fantasy land thinking everything will be ok, like the people that said Covid is nothing to worry about it as it’s just like a cold.

 

We are currently a Championship team so unless that can be reversed we certainly don’t have more reasons than most to be optimistic. Surely you understand that playing in a mothballed Championship or behind closed doors harms us much more than the other 9 or leagues 1 and 2? £100k a month from FOH isn’t going to help much in that scenario.
 

We may well have a good legal case but it doesn’t mean we will definitely win or that all the clubs would be able to afford any compensation.  As I understand it we would be relying on Albion Rovers, Elgin, etc to pay their share of any settlement. Many of them simply won’t have any money to pay us and I have no idea if that can be deducted from next seasons tv deal - back to loans / advances again?!

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2 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Man Utd have a clause in their players wagers that if they don’t qualify for the champions league then their wages will be reduced by 25% and players have to sign this agreement as it’s written into their contract.
 

We should be asserting our own clause into future contracts and caveat them by saying that if we don’t finish at least 4th or qualify for the europa league then players salaries will reduce by 25%. Written into a players contract at least shows ambition and a harder line taken by management. Our last 3 playing squads  have woefully lacked ambition for a while and this has been the worst ever in the last 40 years! 
 

Hopefully we address our recruitment department when we overhaul this years squad yet again 

It’s a really good idea and would go a long way towards motivating certain players. The high basic and lower bonus has, in my mind, contributed to our malaise on the pitch. 
 

When things go as badly wrong as they have it’s seldom just one problem. Before we signed Stendel I read his signing policy tended to be towards players in their early twenties. I like that idea as well. There are too many players that, for one reason or another, know they won’t play at a higher level than hearts, whether that’s down to age, ability or attitude. That has to change imo. 

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Libertarian
17 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Why not the French or Spanish leagues?

 

:facepalm:

 

17 hours ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Games wont start below Prem without fans.  We are in a worse position as we have more ongoing costs.

The Foundation must be bringing in excess of £150,000 every month whether we play or not. We have no debt. Therefore I would suggest that we are in a stronger position than most.

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Fozzyonthefence
5 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Yes but the point being that if the second tier pushes kick-off of that league back, it harms us more than anyone.


It’s so obvious I don’t understand why people can’t get their heads around this.  Aberdeen are reportedly losing around £1m per month but we’ll be ok because we get £100k per month from FOH?!

 

 

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Unknown user
5 minutes ago, Hearts Daft said:

 

The Foundation must be bringing in excess of £150,000 every month whether we play or not. We have no debt. Therefore I would suggest that we are in a stronger position than most.

I don't think either of those first 2 sentences are right

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14 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:
14 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

If the games are played behind closed doors, I’m not sure where the financial benefit of having us in the league comes from.  
 

 


I think you’ll wait a long time to witness any closed door games played in Scotland.

 

Won’t happen IMO.

Edited by MCW1976
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13 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

If the games are played behind closed doors, I’m not sure where the financial benefit of having us in the league comes from.  
 

 


What closed door games?!

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gashauskis9
1 minute ago, Hearts Daft said:

 

The Foundation must be bringing in excess of £150,000 every month whether we play or not. We have no debt. Therefore I would suggest that we are in a stronger position than most.

Yep.  Let the high earners (those on more than £2k a week) leave or go on a 6 month loan to a Premiership or English club so they can get regular games and use the FOH subs to pay the rest of the staff.
 

Just remember.  Hearts make more from FOH subs alone than most teams outside of the Premiership make from STs/game receipts.  Obviously the outgoing we have will be considerably higher, but it’s half the battle having FOH.  If we pull ST sales while we’re out of action, I can see a huge increase in pledges and pledgers to FOH which would hopefully help soften the blow.  

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Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

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gashauskis9
6 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


What closed door games?!

Sorry, I thought your post was referring to the Premiership being open for business behind closed doors but the rest of the leagues having a shutdown. 

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16 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Man Utd have a clause in their players wagers that if they don’t qualify for the champions league then their wages will be reduced by 25% and players have to sign this agreement as it’s written into their contract.
 

We should be asserting our own clause into future contracts and caveat them by saying that if we don’t finish at least 4th or qualify for the europa league then players salaries will reduce by 25%. Written into a players contract at least shows ambition and a harder line taken by management. Our last 3 playing squads  have woefully lacked ambition for a while and this has been the worst ever in the last 40 years! 
 

Hopefully we address our recruitment department when we overhaul this years squad yet again 

 

We don't even have the usual win incentives written into the contracts, and 2 of the senior players be were given golden tickets to train at home. It's no surprise looking back, that the other teams at the bottom 'wanted' it more.

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Biffa Bacon
6 hours ago, Jambo66 said:

It won't be a major concern at all. She will ignore it because it's irrelevant. I suspect she has rather more important things to do at the moment.

 

As for the rest of your rant? Give it a rest mate, really.

Agreed, the rag will print what it likes, it would be a full time job challenging every anti Hearts story.

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doctor jambo

I think people in the spfl need to realise it’s not “mothballing”.

Its sacking all your staff and players and closing down.

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frankblack
6 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

 

I wouldn't think this would be a difficult point to make to a judge that

a) they changed the rules to expel us on the basis of an incomplete season.

b) they are changing the championship and removing any reduced income stream.

 

I could see a hefty damages award out of that as a minimum to make the SPFL's eyes water.

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Fozzyonthefence
18 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


What closed door games?!


The Premiership is looking to start with closed doors games, in fact it will have to for the new tv deal. The tv deal that this whole farce has been about.  Why do you think they won’t?

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Biffa Bacon
39 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Man Utd have a clause in their players wagers that if they don’t qualify for the champions league then their wages will be reduced by 25% and players have to sign this agreement as it’s written into their contract.
 

We should be asserting our own clause into future contracts and caveat them by saying that if we don’t finish at least 4th or qualify for the europa league then players salaries will reduce by 25%. Written into a players contract at least shows ambition and a harder line taken by management. Our last 3 playing squads  have woefully lacked ambition for a while and this has been the worst ever in the last 40 years! 
 

Hopefully we address our recruitment department when we overhaul this years squad yet again 

Aye do they though. Do you think when they were desperate to sign Paul Pogba, his lawyer would not review a contract before he signed it. He would say get that clause our of there or I am going somewhere else. Contracts are negotiated and will be give and take and likely to end up being bespoke, especially at a club like Man U.

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Quote from Raman on STV

 

Only his opinion though.....

 

Looking into crystal ball: new Premiership season starts late August/September. Championship starts October - 18 games max per club. League 1 League 2 struggle to start at all. If so, next season’s Scottish Cup has only Prem and Champ teams. No fans in stadia before Feb next year

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Geoff Kilpatrick
17 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Surely if we are expelled from the premier league and placed into a position where we can’t operate there is a “restriction of trade” position here and the SPFL are acting unlawfully. 

:Agree:

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doctor jambo
1 minute ago, parwj said:

Quote from Raman on STV

 

Only his opinion though.....

 

Looking into crystal ball: new Premiership season starts late August/September. Championship starts October - 18 games max per club. League 1 League 2 struggle to start at all. If so, next season’s Scottish Cup has only Prem and Champ teams. No fans in stadia before Feb next year

It cannot work.

To start in October every championship club would need to sack all their players and staff, then recruit entire new teams for the restart at the last minute.

Then Sturgeon changes her mind and they sack all their staff again.

its a mass extinction event unfolding before our eyes, 

we have been thrown into oblivion - it’s stay in top flight , or bust

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4 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said:

Aye do they though. Do you think when they were desperate to sign Paul Pogba, his lawyer would not review a contract before he signed it. He would say get that clause our of there or I am going somewhere else. Contracts are negotiated and will be give and take and likely to end up being bespoke, especially at a club like Man U.

It’s straight across the board and applies to all.  Check it out yourself. I’m sure it’ll be on google somewhere. You don’t sign it then you don’t get to play for Man U. It’s that simple. Sanchez dropped £125k per week when they missed CL qualification 

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Paint the town maroon
1 hour ago, MCW1976 said:


I agree.

 

The SPFL are otherwise asking the third biggest club in Scotland, with an average attendance of 16,000, who were demoted due to a global pandemic (with 24 points to play for), to then play in a division that cannot fulfil its fixture list.

 

That, plus be happy to have Hamilton and Ross County and St Mirren struggle to survive in a Premiership that is screaming out for Hearts to be there (financially, if nothing else).

 

By the day, this is getting more and more comical - and more and more likely that Hearts will be ‘asked’ to come back into the Premiership by the SPFL. 
 

I hope Hearts say that they will at least think about it - and get back to the SPFL within 51 days with an answer.

 

 


Fanciful but funny 👍

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brunoatemyhamster
6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It cannot work.

To start in October every championship club would need to sack all their players and staff, then recruit entire new teams for the restart at the last minute.

Then Sturgeon changes her mind and they sack all their staff again.

its a mass extinction event unfolding before our eyes, 

we have been thrown into oblivion - it’s stay in top flight , or bust

Recruit a new team with no money on top off that. 

 

It's stay in the top flight or bust. You're bang on. 

 

And if we're going down this way, I want us to take the whole show with us. 

 

It's what they wanted at the end of the day. 

 

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davemclaren
55 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

If the games are played behind closed doors, I’m not sure where the financial benefit of having us in the league comes from.  
 

 

We can sell more virtual tickets than most if games are streamed. 

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Jambof3tornado
7 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


You didn’t say no external debt, you said no debt.  We’re not debt free but have no external debt.

 

Demotion is not up in the air - we’ve been officially demoted!  There is a tiny chance of us being in the Premiership next season, I can’t believe you’re being so flippant about it when our very existence could be at threat.  If we play next season in a Championship starting in August behind closed doors it will be catastrophic for the club. 

There is a bigger chance of us being in the top league next season given the possibility that other leagues wont run at all.

 

There is a million miles to go before we have a clue whats happening.

 

Either way Hearts will survive. Worst case scenario we strip back costs as far as possible, divert foh subs to daily running costs and mystery benefactors put their hands in their pockets.

 

Not sure anybody is being flippant.

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Partick Thistle have been royally ****ed up over this they should never have been relegated either and now they're facing the prospect of NO football next season so basically stuck in League 1 for two years 

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“There is a willingness to help them out of this hole. Scottish football can’t afford to sit back and do nothing if it means losing a club of this size.
 

This is why I want to go to court. I don’t want it being like they’ve done us a favour. I want a grovelling apology.

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Fozzyonthefence
2 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

There is a bigger chance of us being in the top league next season given the possibility that other leagues wont run at all.

 

There is a million miles to go before we have a clue whats happening.

 

Either way Hearts will survive. Worst case scenario we strip back costs as far as possible, divert foh subs to daily running costs and mystery benefactors put their hands in their pockets.

 

Not sure anybody is being flippant.


Some don’t think it is is a problem if we play in the Championship because we’ve got FOH.  And if the benefactors don’t put their hands in their pockets?   They’re living in a fantasy world.  We would be the worst affected in the Championship by far. 

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Paint the town maroon

On reconstruction. Not sure if this has been raised before - I know the focus is on the 11-1 likely vote but the Championship need to vote 75% in favour.

 

The right and wrongs of ICT position is one we shouldn’t underestimate. It was clear from

the EGM vote that only ICT voted in favour and the rest were all against.The bun fight in the media with endless statements between ICT and other clubs has driven what look like a huge divide. 
 

Assuming ICT would ‘benefit’ from reconstruction, I would expect a lot of tactical voting against them? Have I called that wrong?

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Harry Potter
23 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

We have owners of DIddy FC saying they cannot survive without fans, we have others putting forward proposals for 18-game leagues and we are supposed to be putting forward reconstruction proposals in the midst of this shambles?

 

The lack of leadership in our game is nothing short of a National Disgrace.

There is no leadership, its akin to a rudderless ship which knows no direction.,i have always said we were run by clowns, 

its certainly very obvious now.

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2 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:

On reconstruction. Not sure if this has been raised before - I know the focus is on the 11-1 likely vote but the Championship need to vote 75% in favour.

 

The right and wrongs of ICT position is one we shouldn’t underestimate. It was clear from

the EGM vote that only ICT voted in favour and the rest were all against.The bun fight in the media with endless statements between ICT and other clubs has driven what look like a huge divide. 
 

Assuming ICT would ‘benefit’ from reconstruction, I would expect a lot of tactical voting against them? Have I called that wrong?


I think that part of the pantomime has already played out.

 

Now we’re onto the stage where clubs - who were feeling empowered a couple of weeks ago - are reaping the harvest of their 15 minutes of fame.

 

 

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Paint the town maroon
2 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

“There is a willingness to help them out of this hole. Scottish football can’t afford to sit back and do nothing if it means losing a club of this size.
 

This is why I want to go to court. I don’t want it being like they’ve done us a favour. I want a grovelling apology.


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.

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So by reading the article and the source, Ann Budge is doing all Doncaster's real work by speaking to clubs individually, understanding the impact of Covid19 and coming up with a proposal.

 

Effing hell.

 

That's the real effing c u next tuesday-ing to take from the Record article and has been for weeks but being ignored by all, including on here.

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jambopilms

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 

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1 minute ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 

It doesn't look like the French clubs are all about to go down the toilet like here - only way to save the game here is reconstruction or its tatty bye to a lot of clubs,once again saying it but how come this wasn't all discussed weeks ago??didn't need a rocket scientist to work out that footy will have no crowd for a large part of next season thus meaning less income for clubs 🤷‍♂️ 

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2 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.

Sorry it’s not only unfair, it’s also unlawful. They have voted to expel us from the league before all the seasons fixtures could be completed and now put us in a position where our ability to operate commercially is under threat. It’s a clear case of unlawful restriction of trade. It would be a totally different matter if the season had been completed and we had been bottom and in the relegation position. That was not the case. That position I think is going to be hammered home to them shortly.

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2 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 


:laugh2: It hasn’t been thrown out.

 

The administrative court in Paris has passed it on to the National court as they didn’t feel they had the jurisdiction to make decisions on national matters.

 

 

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/paris-court-abdicates-responsibility-to-rule-on-amiens-toulouse-referred-to-national-court/

 

 

 

 

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brunoatemyhamster
10 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

So by reading the article and the source, Ann Budge is doing all Doncaster's real work by speaking to clubs individually, understanding the impact of Covid19 and coming up with a proposal.

 

Effing hell.

 

That's the real effing c u next tuesday-ing to take from the Record article and has been for weeks but being ignored by all, including on here.

She should have been nowhere near any of these discussions.she should have laid the blame for this somewhere else. 

 

Is that not what he gets paid the big bucks for? Matters that effect  Premiership clubs?

 

 

Not picking sides and canvassing Dundee in the championship. 

 

 

 

Edited by brunoatemyhamster
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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Fantasy stuff I am afraid! The best we will get in court and I suspect it will never get to court will be some level of compensation. 
 

I don’t get why this isn’t landing. The clubs voted for this. THE CLUBS VOTED FOT THIS! It is unfair but the members of a members organisation voted over 80% in favour for this. The board took this mandate and made it happen.

 

Reconstruction is best option. Legal action might get compensate us but I have still to hear a single strong argument if you take out the emotion, the unfairness, the suggestion of dodgy dealings etc.


When the dust settles on this then some serious questions need to be asked. The irony is - what is happening just now is stopping Ann Budge being hounded out the club.


We won’t be challenging it on unfairness or dodgy deals we can’t prove.  It will be challenged on the principles of company law having been broken.  
 

It’s irrelevant if 81% of clubs voted for it if the vote was deemed unlawful.  The vote itself was unnecessarily linked to payments being made and other options were not explored, there was a lack of duty of care to the member clubs. A senior QC has already given his opinion on the legality of the vote and there are other points we can challenge on too.  What more do you want, a written guarantee from a judge?

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Fozzyonthefence
8 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 


That’s completely irrelevant.  We’re not fighting the same fight.  Our main arguments will not be based on sporting fairness but on company law.  The French court has just kicked the can down the road,  they didn’t have jurisdiction to rule on it apparently which won’t be a problem for us.

Edited by Fozzyonthefence
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Biffa Bacon
41 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s straight across the board and applies to all.  Check it out yourself. I’m sure it’ll be on google somewhere. You don’t sign it then you don’t get to play for Man U. It’s that simple. Sanchez dropped £125k per week when they missed CL qualification 

I found after googling 

22 Aug 2019 · But according to The Sun, United are looking to insert a clause in any new contracts offers which would reduce a player's wage by 25% if they miss out on the Champions League. 

Not convinced, it is according to the Sun, looking to insert, new contract offers.... it's up to each player when offered a new contract if it's acceptable to them.

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Hungry hippo
8 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

With the French courts throwing it out, I can't see how we have any chance of winning anything.

 

 

 

Even if it had been thrown out (which it hasn't) it would be irrelevant to a case under law in this country.

 

Fortunately for us, the the SPFL's lawyers are aware we have a strong case which is why they would suddenly love a compromise when previously they wanted to "move on".

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52 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said:

Aye do they though. Do you think when they were desperate to sign Paul Pogba, his lawyer would not review a contract before he signed it. He would say get that clause our of there or I am going somewhere else. Contracts are negotiated and will be give and take and likely to end up being bespoke, especially at a club like Man U.

This 100% the contracts at Man Utd are the very worse you will see.

Sanchez and pogba are on goal assisted and goal scoring contracts which other team members do not get .... eye watering contracts 

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