SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Phil D. Corners]

1 minute ago, 1874robbo said:

I can’t wait for the day when a club will be reliant on our vote!! 

I still don’t blame the vote from individual clubs, except Dundee. 
 

They did what was right for them. I think Hearts would of done the same it we were higher up the table. 
 

My anger Is too Doncaster, the SPFL, and Dundee. 

[MCW1976]

27 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I worked it out one day in the shower.  Teams like St Johnstone whose P&L each year is almost fully dependent on filling their stands with OF scum...

 

Think about it.

 

Most team budget bottom 6 (OF plus Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts should be 5 of the top 6 and we other three don't "need" the OF bums on seats).  That means they will get on average 3 home games a season against the OF.

 

I don't know, maybe the OF bring 6k to each of those games, sound about right?  So that's 18k OF scum a year.  But then we'll take 3k, Hibs and Aberdeen maybe 1.5k or so.  Basically let's call it an "extra" 9 or 10 thousand fans a year from the OF coming to their ground.

 

That's an extra 500 of their own support theyd need each week to mean that they had zero reliance on the OF.  They'd still be a good payday to have come to town, but you need to increase your own attendance by an average of 500 a week to negate the NEED for that, and allow yourself the freedom to vote how you want, work how you want, stand up for yourself, christ maybe even all work together to work out how to get a better TV deal and then you've got even more money without relying on the OF.

 

It's bloody sickening.  I know I'm being flippant and it isn't easy to magic 500 more people a week into Douglas Park or whatever, but the fact is that these teams existence has become about feeding off carrion spilled by those utterly disgraceful organisations in Glasgow and the SPFL and SFA do nothing to try to change that culture.  Perhaps it's always been like this, but surely never to this extent.  And the process has moved on rapidly under Doncaster's watch.

 

 

[Jambomuzz]

1 hour ago, AndrewB said:

Has the person who told you any connections to any of the parties - or to the tea lady who would be serving refreshments there?

Has the person a history of telling you stuff that is correct?

 

Finally, have you been to Gregg's today?😉

 

Apart from Tom English's comment, it's all been very quiet, hasn't it?

He works for partick thistle and said everyone is away at hampden today for the arbtration from 10am this morning and were still in at 3pm when i spoke to him again. I havent spoke to him since. He doesnt really have a history of being ITK, but he did get my hearts top signed one year by the full hearts squad so hes a gid lad 😂. 

I havent been to greggs today, but i did go for a haircut. 

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, AndrewB said:

Easy to see why they want rid of MacLennan

 

Wikipedia:

 

MacLennan was appointed chairman of the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) in July 2017.^[10] There was criticism that MacLennan is not impartial in his role with the SPFL considering the fact that INM's majority shareholder is Celtic's majority shareholder Dermot Desmond. One of Desmond close associates and fellow Celtic fan Denis O'Brian is also an INM shareholder. The SPFL refused to investigate the connection.^[11]

In March 2018, he was appointed as chairman of Independent News & Media (INM).^[12] 

Don’t know how anyone can be happy with that, never mind the Huns. I mean ffs. 🙄

[kingantti1874]

Rangers are 100% justified in their dislike for McLennan. No way this celtic Torag should have any influence 

[Stuart Lyon]

The thing with loans within a division that strikes me is that these loanees say from Celtic to Hibs could play in a winning game against Rangers thereby helping their parent club. But these loanees cannot play against their parent club. Where does that sit with sporting integrity?

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Then again if they were honourable just owners of a club in the Scottish Leagues I’d expect them to say to the SFA that it is against the spirit of the game to charge 2 clubs while they are waiting to go to arbitration on the advice of Lord Clark at the Court of Session.

 

I still remember them asking us to move a game to accommodate their European aspirations, then the next season not affording us the same courtesy. One of a million acts of bad faith. 
 

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

I get what wavydavy is saying.  The idea that the game could be run by a professional, independent person/board, rather than a cabal of small minded club chairmen, who use the position to protect the status quo, all overseen by whichever OF team at that time claims dominance, and their mandatory figure on that board.  The current setup is shocking and totally stifles even the idea of change or progression.

 

Bringing in an actual CEO who can take the game where it needs to, would be way better.  His parameters will always be the issue.  What would the remit really be?  Who would set it, who would judge success?  These are the things that Doncaster has dodged.  He's answerable to no one basically.

Anyone who would market the entire game would be a breath of fresh air. As folk have said, market it as an honest, proper game of football. Promote each match, each team, the uniqueness of some of the places and stadiums (good and bad). Big it up - it worked for the EPL which was not always as fashionable or money-laden as it is now. We could surely do our own marketing with the right agency. 
 

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

They still want rid off Doncaster McLennan and MacKenzie.

On this I cannot disagree with them. It also serves as a warning when the likes of the bigot Findlay are wanting an all-powerful person at the top with executive powers - Celtic and Rangers will just try to trade and wrangle to get their guy in. 
 

52 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

The only other rumour I have seen is one poster on here saying its been delayed to next week (seemed a reliable poster.) But not seen anyone else backing that up. 

 

I would have thought there would be more information than we have had. Though it may be seen as a private matter so only the parties involved will be informed and everyone is keeping quiet.

Surely a delay until next week flies in the face of the line of bullshit that risible SPFL QC peddled about arbitration. I trust Lord Clark is keeping a very close eye on the SPFL/SFA. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Gizmo

[Masonic]

club should refuse any offer of cash no matter the size and take it to CAS

 

then we win and get put back in the league

[maroonlegions]

3 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

I give thanks for the blessed sub-editor.

 

 

A lot of people are living in a man made hell just now so his point is a moot one.👽

[Hagar the Horrible]

Big what if time?

 

What if the Scottish Government decide that when mass gatherings are allowed?  then and only then that season ticket holders are allowed to attend games?  They ban all pay at the gate and travelling supporters to limit spread.

 

The what if would be I would laugh my hind legs off, and watch those clubs that rely on the OF turning up 3/4 times a year to fund their paltry existance?

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Big what if time?

 

What if the Scottish Government decide that when mass gatherings are allowed?  then and only then that season ticket holders are allowed to attend games?  They ban all pay at the gate and travelling supporters to limit spread.

 

The what if would be I would laugh my hind legs off, and watch those clubs that rely on the OF turning up 3/4 times a year to fund their paltry existance?

That’s why some clubs, like Hamilton, haven’t sold season tickets this summer. Three visits filled by as many OF fans as possible means a lot more money than a few hundred  season tickets. 

[WDJ87]

Just read arbitration is underway, seen someone on here mention it began today but they weren't sure. Understand is privately held but surely they could say it's started (when) and when we can expect a decision? Everything crossed.

 

Anyone know if we can expect leaks?

Edited July 15, 2020 by WDJ87

[HMFC-1874]

Anyone able to confirm if 

3 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

Just read arbitration is underway, seen someone on here mention it began today but they weren't sure. Understand is privately held but surely they could say it's started (when) and when we can expect a decision? Everything crossed.

Wonder what time it runs until...

[1953]

I had a good discussion with a Rangers fan and a Hibs fan today. We were all in complete agreement that the SPFL have caused all this nonsense, that Hearts need to win their case and Doncaster should be punted. 

[WDJ87]

If the C3 QC is involved it could run into 2021 🤪

[WDJ87]

2 minutes ago, 1953 said:

I had a good discussion with a Rangers fan and a Hibs fan today. We were all in complete agreement that the SPFL have caused all this nonsense, that Hearts need to win their case and Doncaster should be punted. 

This.. along with the rest of the crooks who sit beside him. Dare I say relegation would be easier to swallow if it meant we get shot of them

Edited July 15, 2020 by WDJ87

[HMFC-1874]

Just now, WDJ87 said:

If the C3 QC is involved it could run into 2021 🤪

😂 true

[Jambomuzz]

7 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

Just read arbitration is underway, seen someone on here mention it began today but they weren't sure. Understand is privately held but surely they could say it's started (when) and when we can expect a decision? Everything crossed.

 

Anyone know if we can expect leaks?

Where was this reported?Corroborates what i was told earlier today. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Jambomuzz

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

3 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

 

 

We have NOT breached the SFA rules? They have no legs to stand on, we signed up to Article 99 and as such we have to agree to Arbitration in the first instance, but by going to court first to clarify certain points and to ensure that the Arbitration process is adhered to and we also ensured that the aribrers have the granted legal powers to call witness and we also legaly asked the courts to obtain all relevant documentation?  This is also cast in stone in Scots law (arbitration 2010) which artilce 99 in based on.

 

But the Law also states clearly and Scots Law for arbitration 2010  states this based on the New York Convension.  A law that the SFA must adhere to:

 

1 .Concept of enforcement of arbitration agreement

 

it states that had we NOT gone to court first we would have waived the rights to go back to court and get them to enforce certain laws.  grant powers. and if necessary return the matter to the courts to resolve?  We had to do what we did this way, or we would have waived those rights:

 

1.2. Thus the parties:

a. Waive the right to have those matters resolved by a court, and

b. Grant jurisdictional powers to private individuals (the arbitrators)

 

Not going into too much detail but the submission agreement which is Article 99 is considered outdated, I think LC tried to guide them.  The Geneva agreement on Arbitration and the New York agreements.  both open up that double closed loophole where the agrement not to go to court, is not legal, but also states that the courts must refer back to arbitration.  But the SFA by the UN laws, The model laws, The NY laws and Scots Law have breached those laws.

 

For the avoidance of doubt the SFA cannot punish us for going to court, the law says we can, but the law also states that we must go to arbitration..hence the loop, But its also down to the SFA and any  party to request and enforce arbitration.

 

What the SFA have tried to do is force the loop closed by agreeing to arbitration only, Forbidding going to court by doing so there will be draconian punishment. But leaving the arbitration process with limited capability?  If we asked for permission and they refused, we might not have had a leg to stand on.  In essence we have gone by the law, and we are where we are by being right.

 

Seriously bothe the Scots law and the refernced NY one do go on a bit, but its there to protect all parties,  The SFA are Wrong

 

The New York convention states this...The Court always has the last word!

 

Nice bit of research there, Hagar, let's hope, though, that that's the way the laws would be interpreted should we need to return to court to petition against the SFA. It has always been my biggest fear with what's been happening. Not that I have ever doubted that what Hearts and Partick are doing is right, but I remain cautious over the way laws and rules can be interpreted, and, of course, the layman can often miss the nuances that can make a slam dunk case a crushing defeat. 

[WDJ87]

Just now, Jambomuzz said:

Where was this reported. Corroborates what i was told earlier today. 

On a DR article 😂 so should I believe it?

[WDJ87]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-left-no-choice-over-22356378.amp

[WDJ87]

But, even though Lord Clark kicked the row back to Hampden’s sixth floor for an arbitration process which is now underway

 

thats the bit I am referring to, for those who don't want to give they ***** the clicks

[maroonlegions]

4 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

If the C3 QC is involved it could run into 2021 🤪

Not as long as my bands songs  "to do list.".

[HMFC-1874]

4 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-left-no-choice-over-22356378.amp

I hope your Scanned your device for virus and also physically gave it a deep clean after going on that rag...  😝

Edited July 15, 2020 by HMFC-1874

[Boof]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

I’d expect arbitration panel to state the three clubs should be reinstated and that’s it. No change for United et al ie they stay in current division ie Utd in premier. Just means a season of 13/10/10/9. Least controversial solution given how close we are to season starting. Only challenge left for SPFL is how many get relegated from top league and is there any promotion/ play-off in place in lower leagues  next season. 

 

They're leaving it a bit late to get a rule change in before it all kicks off...from page 34 of SPFL Rules

 

C9 Subject to these Rules and except in relation to Season 2013/2014, the Clubs entitled to participate in the Premiership in any Season shall be the: C9.1 Clubs in positions 1 to 10 inclusive in the League at the end of the immediately preceding Season; C9.2 Club which was the winner of the final tie in the Premiership/Championship Play-Off Competition held at the end of the immediately preceding Season; and C9.3 Club in position 13 in the League at the end of the immediately preceding Season.

 

A race to the bottom  

[WDJ87]

2 minutes ago, HMFC-1874 said:

I hope your Scanned your device for virus and also physically gave it a deep clean after going on that rag... 

I borrowed a hobos phone so it's all good 😂😂

[true-jambo]

27 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Rangers are 100% justified in their dislike for McLennan. No way this celtic Torag should have any influence 

Wasn't there also a derogatory comment he was alleged to have made about Rangers, when he worked at the DR

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

Wasn't there also a derogatory comment he was alleged to have made about Rangers, when he worked at the DR

he is supposed to have said that he hates rangers

[Bazzas right boot]

Looking forward to the semi final just to sing " **** the sfa" for 86 minutes minutes. 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[OldGorgie]

37 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

The thing with loans within a division that strikes me is that these loanees say from Celtic to Hibs could play in a winning game against Rangers thereby helping their parent club. But these loanees cannot play against their parent club. Where does that sit with sporting integrity?

Basic rule in SPFL is Smeltic=Hubz=St Midden. As the advert says - not a hapeworth of difference.

[part_time_jambo]

5 hours ago, mitch41 said:

And yet Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs sit back and stay silent. They leave it to their ex-players and media friends to spread the poison against Hearts & Partick Th. After the Arbitration is over and no matter the outcome I’d love Ann Budge to come out and thank Scotland’s so called big clubs for all their lack of support. Heart of Midlothian F.C. who have been leaders and promoters of Scottish Football since 1874 have been treated to a level of disrespect that would never be given to the ugly sisters from Glasgow. I hope from now on whatever the outcome we only help our friends Falkirk, Inverness CT, and a few more. 

Had to smile at your comment about the "ugly sisters" not being "disrespected". Is it not disrespectful to call them that?

[John Findlay]

24 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

If the C3 QC is involved it could run into 2021 🤪

I assume you dont mean 8.21pm tonight😉

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, rory78 said:

Here we go this opens up the avenue for Celtic to loan Dundee 4 players - these muppets at the SPFL really are a shit house show 

Wouldn’t worry about it. Fifa ruling means that five substitutes allowed next season. Matchday squads of at least 20 so add in another four or five for injuries and suspensions and none of the OFFICIALS top 25 or so players will be going out on loan. Nothing to fear from their players outwith their best 25. 

[Tokyo Drifter]

30 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

Just read arbitration is underway, seen someone on here mention it began today but they weren't sure. Understand is privately held but surely they could say it's started (when) and when we can expect a decision? Everything crossed.

 

Anyone know if we can expect leaks?

The lawyer on Sportsound a couple of weeks ago said he reckoned it would be done by around 21/22 July, though that might have been assuming they started the process on the Monday after the Friday court ruling, which doesn't seem to have happened.  

[1874robbo]

57 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

I still don’t blame the vote from individual clubs, except Dundee. 
 

They did what was right for them. I think Hearts would of done the same it we were higher up the table. 
 

My anger Is too Doncaster, the SPFL, and Dundee. 

Some of the comments from chairmen have been out of order imo

[WorldChampions1902]

36 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

Just read arbitration is underway, seen someone on here mention it began today but they weren't sure. Understand is privately held but surely they could say it's started (when) and when we can expect a decision? Everything crossed.

 

Anyone know if we can expect leaks?

Unlikely, if people of the calibre of JJ are completely in the dark.

[true-jambo]

15 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

he is supposed to have said that he hates rangers

He is obviously not alone there, but then the rest of us aren't the SPFL chairman

On a serious note if those comments are true it beggars belief he is any position of influence

[22games nro]

15 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Looking forward to the semi final just to sing " **** the sfa" for 86 minutes minutes. 

 

no disrespect meant, but I hope you are one of a handful of hearts fans there, they can ram the semi up their  erses!

Edited July 15, 2020 by 22games nro

[graygo]

30 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

But, even though Lord Clark kicked the row back to Hampden’s sixth floor for an arbitration process which is now underway

 

thats the bit I am referring to, for those who don't want to give they ***** the clicks

 

The "process" will include the gathering of documents and appointment of panel.

[WDJ87]

Just now, graygo said:

 

The "process" will include the gathering of documents and appointment of panel.

Didn't think about it that way. In all honesty I hope it's not underway, as frustrating as it is, it would be great to see LC recalling it to court cos they've taken too long.

[trotter]

15 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

Had to smile at your comment about the "ugly sisters" not being "disrespected". Is it not disrespectful to call them that?

No, because they are ******* minging. 

 

Not even with yours mate

[SectionDJambo]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Exactly.  Not sure Sugar is the man, but I get your drift.  Exactly what we need.

 

Someone who can see past all the "ayebeen" chat and see the opportunities.  I don't care what anyone says, our game isn't as bad as folk think.  It's totally marketable - football is too shiny, we can sell the real thing, and yes we do have the OF to sell, but we have loads of other great rivalries too.

 

You know there must even be guys in football who could do the job - just not from Scotland!!  Plucking shit out here, so not these actual names, but someone like Klinsmann or Vialli, christ they'd be worth their pay just for some gravitas and to get us in some doors.  We never, ever think big.

You’re right about our football being attractive in the sense that it can be raw. I’ve known of guys from England coming up, for other reasons, but going to a Hearts match. They loved it. All the argy bargy that seems to have been suffocated from the English game.

There is a more rewarding market for Scottish football than that knobend Doncaster has managed to find. I still suspect that Lawwell might be telling him to keep it low, so as to stop clubs like Hearts, Aberdeen and even Rangers, getting too much money, that may help build a team to compete with Celtic.

[7628mm]

45 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

But, even though Lord Clark kicked the row back to Hampden’s sixth floor for an arbitration process which is now underway

 

thats the bit I am referring to, for those who don't want to give they ***** the clicks

 

This does not actually say that the Arbitration is sitting. All it is alluding to is that the process is underway and HMFC & PT have been gathering the relevant paperwork etc. since the CoS finished back on 03/07/2020.

 

In my opinion this Arbitration has not actually sat as yet. When it does we will be told. The contents of the case and what goes on in the process is secret but not when the actual sitting on the case begins and ends.  

[Hungry hippo]

11 minutes ago, WDJ87 said:

Didn't think about it that way. In all honesty I hope it's not underway, as frustrating as it is, it would be great to see LC recalling it to court cos they've taken too long.

 

There is no chance the SPFL want to delay arbitration. They told Lord Clark they would need to stop the league if the decision went fully against them after the league had commenced. They would also have risked it going back to CoS if they caused unnecessary delays.

 

They were guilty of delaying reconstruction talks but it benefits no-one involved to delay arbitration - except the lawyers.

[Zico]

25 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

He is obviously not alone there, but then the rest of us aren't the SPFL chairman

On a serious note if those comments are true it beggars belief he is any position of influence

Private Eye aren’t in the habit of publishing uncorroborated quotes as they often have to defend themselves in court. 
 

[JimmyCant]

5 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

There is no chance the SPFL want to delay arbitration. They told Lord Clark they would need to stop the league if the decision went fully against them after the league had commenced. They would also have risked it going back to CoS if they caused unnecessary delays.

 

They were guilty of delaying reconstruction talks but it benefits no-one involved to delay arbitration - except the lawyers.

That’s now 2 nearly 2 weeks since the remit back to arbitration. Surely we can’t be happy with this delay given all the other premiership sides have been training and playing friendlies for a good wee while

and we haven’t done a thing

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, 7628mm said:

 

This does not actually say that the Arbitration is sitting. All it is alluding to is that the process is underway and HMFC & PT have been gathering the relevant paperwork etc. since the CoS finished back on 03/07/2020.

 

In my opinion this Arbitration has not actually sat as yet. When it does we will be told. The contents of the case and what goes on in the process is secret but not when the actual sitting on the case begins and ends.  

 

The process started officially on 6 July. I'm sure that the SPFL already knew their nominee on 3 July when Moynihan said that he had a copy of the list of potential tribunal panelists.

 

I would have expected the the panel will have been selected and their availability confirmed by the end of last week.  We know that the documentation disclosure was also meant to have been completed last week. We also know that some individuals have been contacted to provide witness statements.

 

I would expect that the original petition, supporting documentation and the respondents answers, will already be in the hands of the arbiters for background reading.  That will take them up to the same position as Lord Clark was at the beginning of the month.

 

What we don't know is when the panel will hear oral submissions both from the QCs or any witnesses being called.  That may have started or is likely to do so in the next day or two.

[ducatiboy]

I bought myself an 18yr old malt today, to either celebrate or commiserate, which will it be?🥃🇱🇻

[S Form]

3 hours ago, Abiola Dauda said:

Haha. Wow. What makes you think that I am a Hibs fan? 

 

As I say above, there is a very good chance that any SFA's punishment is unenforceable in law even though it is in the rulebook.

 

If you look at my other posts you will see I think we have a very good case but just not on the time bar point which i think is a red herring.

Oops. I didn’t mean to imply that you were a Hibs fan. When I said ‘your club’ I should probably have said ‘a club’.

[TheBigO]

17 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

You’re right about our football being attractive in the sense that it can be raw. I’ve known of guys from England coming up, for other reasons, but going to a Hearts match. They loved it. All the argy bargy that seems to have been suffocated from the English game.

There is a more rewarding market for Scottish football than that knobend Doncaster has managed to find. I still suspect that Lawwell might be telling him to keep it low, so as to stop clubs like Hearts, Aberdeen and even Rangers, getting too much money, that may help build a team to compete with Celtic.

Thing is though, even if there isn't a market for it beyond Scotland and ex pats, its still waaaaay undersold (I agree with u tho and have English/foreign mates who like Scottish football for the reasons you've said there)

 

Our viewing figures dwarf nations of similar size, who have much, much better deals from the same providers. It's insanely inept.

 

Seen figures on it but wouldn't know where to find them again