SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Baxfee]

So, should we expect to hear anything this week or is it all secret squirrel? 

[Jamstomorrow]

7 hours ago, Chong said:

Nah Jams that was Linford Christie. Easy mistake

Au-contraire!  Linford Christie is that Hearts supporting speed skater!

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 hour ago, Baxfee said:

So, should we expect to hear anything this week or is it all secret squirrel? 

Doubt we'll hear much except maybe it's underway until decision made and made public

[henryheart]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

I still cannot believe we've got to this stage with them.

 

Seems the equivalent of playing high stakes poker when you've not got a bolt to your name. Assuming reinstatement isn't possible due to time, they literally cannot afford to lose. If they have to pay us cash, I don't understand how they do it. Every club is toiling, so assuming the 'members organisation' crap rears its head then clubs will go to the wall. But this isn't our problem, they had two chances plus Rangers investigation to do the right thing and refused. This is 100% on them.

 

I cannot get over the stupidity of it. A competent executive should have made this clear (although a competent executive would never have put forward a resolution which could result in legal action), that the financial implications are severe if they lose and that any compensation falls upon the members to come up with. Frankly, I think some Chairmen are looking to the OF like some sort of safety blanket to bail them out. Outside of the top 6 I don't think the rest can afford to take a hit to what effectively amounts to a transfer fee sized figure each (which none of them pay, since they're already all skint!!).

 

 

This sums it up perfectly; madness.

[Randy Marsh]

6 hours ago, Jambo66 said:

Clubs who are so skint that they can only survive with a guaranteed 3 home matches against the arse cheeks, don't have a robust business plan.

Agreed.   The frightening thing is that there is nothing in the rules to prevent any club only being given 2 home fixtures against the Old Firm pre split.  Its an unwritten rule that the fixtures are all based around the Old Firm.  It's actually embarrassing and makes our top division look even more tin pot. 

[Taffin]

9 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

If only the clubs did that too then everything would have moved on.

 

It's a tricky thread to navigate sans politics...

[Nookie Bear]

9 hours ago, OTT said:

I still cannot believe we've got to this stage with them.

 

Seems the equivalent of playing high stakes poker when you've not got a bolt to your name. Assuming reinstatement isn't possible due to time, they literally cannot afford to lose. If they have to pay us cash, I don't understand how they do it. Every club is toiling, so assuming the 'members organisation' crap rears its head then clubs will go to the wall. But this isn't our problem, they had two chances plus Rangers investigation to do the right thing and refused. This is 100% on them.

 

I cannot get over the stupidity of it. A competent executive should have made this clear (although a competent executive would never have put forward a resolution which could result in legal action), that the financial implications are severe if they lose and that any compensation falls upon the members to come up with. Frankly, I think some Chairmen are looking to the OF like some sort of safety blanket to bail them out. Outside of the top 6 I don't think the rest can afford to take a hit to what effectively amounts to a transfer fee sized figure each (which none of them pay, since they're already all skint!!).

 

 

It is a National Scandal that the SPFL is letting 5 or 6 members rack up huge legal fees to try and sort out the mess they were incapable and unwilling to deal with. 
 

[Nookie Bear]

9 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Don’t think we would ever want null and void ....

 

that means all fixtures played are null and the season effectively never happened, all results expunged. 
Think that would be a legal and commercial catastrophe.

It’s certainly NOT what Hearts want or have Included in their petition.

Why would that be a problem for us, specifically? 

[Biffa Bacon]

7 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

It comes down to the very short term nature of Scottish football clubs chairmen.

 

For the Premiership, if it becomes 14 clubs with a 6/8 split, then you play every club twice (home and away) then play every team in your split twice home and away. But for some clubs with 12 teams you should get 3 home games against the old firm meaning 3 games with full away attendance. If say you get 3000 old firm fans at each game for £25 a ticket then that game brings in  £75,000 from away attendance. If a normal game brings in 750 away attendance (outside Hearts and Aberdeen) and you cant charge as much due to lack of interest (say £22) then that only brings in £16,500.

 

So you face a situation where a 14 team league, if you dont get into the top split then you get one less old firm game. So it means you are down £75,000. Even if you get two extra home games playing in the bottom group that only brings in an additional £33,000, no where near how much you would have got if it was a 12 game season.

 

Basically in this example for the sake of £42,000 quite a few Premiership clubs would not see the league worth it (and thats before you take into account how the original money from TV from Premiership would need split 14 ways instead of 12 ways.)

 

For League Two, you have the issue that clubs in the league seeing how successful promoted non-league teams have gone (they were 1st and 2nd in League Two this past season before the intruption) shows that clubs who are promoted are better than the clubs already in the league. Meaning less chance of promotion and more chance of relegation. So better to not let those clubs in.

 

In short, clubs voted against it because they are only interested about themselves and in that only what is best now for the club.

Excellent post. In addition to the £42k loss you would have to consider the additional income from finishing in the top 6 (if they had any ambition?), and the increased odds of staying in the league itself. Hospitality seems to be a bigger issue for wee clubs some of L1 and L2 making more than from ordinary paying supporters.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Why would that be a problem for us, specifically? 

 

I wonder if they would also have to null & void the Scottish cup as well. After all if the league never existed how could the cup have done so? 

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I wonder if they would also have to null & void the Scottish cup as well. After all if the league never existed how could the cup have done so? 

Agreed 👍🏻

[highlandjambo3]

Come on....it’s 8am....any news yet? 
 

F5...F5....F5.....F5.........it’s going to be a long week 

[Dallas Green]

4 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Come on....it’s 8am....any news yet? 
 

F5...F5....F5.....F5.........it’s going to be a long week 

 

That's for sure!

[SectionDJambo]

6 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Indeed. Just as those who sell more tickets to them than their own fans don’t either.

These type of clubs are also the, given, reason for the 11-1 voting requirement in the Premiership. They happily rely on the bigger clubs’, including Hearts, away support, and would be even happier to be able to sponge off a share of home gates receipts of the bigger clubs too.
The 11-1 thing holds back other stuff, whilst the home receipts retention could probably be protected specifically by other means.
The active support for the old firm, from all over Scotland, mainly for reasons of bigotry, doesn’t help the smaller clubs attract more fans either. 
The worry about any voting system in the SPFL, though, is the stupidity and silent corruption, through fear or the aforementioned bigotry, of too many club chairmen, which has been all too clearly shown up during this disgraceful affair.

[BelgeJambo]

8 hours ago, harrywragg said:

 

As of a few minutes ago, the three walk donation pages totalled £44,711 of which should be removed 2.9% fees of £1,297 & additional charges of 25p per donation from about 2.1k idiots amounting to £525. 

 

So far it's therefore just shy of £42.9k & should fund a couple of days at arbitration. 

We raise that in 10 days without getting out of bed

[Dallas Green]

2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

We raise that in 10 days without getting out of bed

 

[Beast Boy]

16 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

These type of clubs are also the, given, reason for the 11-1 voting requirement in the Premiership. They happily rely on the bigger clubs’, including Hearts, away support, and would be even happier to be able to sponge off a share of home gates receipts of the bigger clubs too.
The 11-1 thing holds back other stuff, whilst the home receipts retention could probably be protected specifically by other means.
The active support for the old firm, from all over Scotland, mainly for reasons of bigotry, doesn’t help the smaller clubs attract more fans either. 
The worry about any voting system in the SPFL, though, is the stupidity and silent corruption, through fear or the aforementioned bigotry, of too many club chairmen, which has been all too clearly shown up during this disgraceful affair.

Exactly. There should be a cap on the percentage of away tickets a member club can sell.

[Phil D. Corners]

23 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Come on....it’s 8am....any news yet? 
 

F5...F5....F5.....F5.........it’s going to be a long week 

I think there will mud being slung this week. 
 

A lot debates about rumours and little facts being made available. 

[Kiwidoug]

And the loser now will be later to win.

[Sarah O]

Will we even know when the arbitration panel have started?  How will the results be announced?

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Au-contraire!  Linford Christie is that Hearts supporting speed skater!

 

If you mean that lassie from West Lothian her name is Corpus, no idea who this Linford character is.

[McCrae]

If Hearts are awarded compensation its not just the clubs that are at risk.  The very future of the SPFL would be in doubt. The millions they are being forced to payback to Sky and BT and how this will impact the monies available to clubs is potentially as big a headache  that is not really being discussed.  Can the SPFL continue to trade?

[jack D and coke]

I think a lot of people need to chill with what they think is going to happen here, you’re setting yourselves up for another big slap across the kisser imo. 
I have absolutely zero faith in any fairness being applied here. 
This country is absolutely rotten. 
 

[jamboy1982]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I think a lot of people need to chill with what they think is going to happen here, you’re setting yourselves up for another big slap across the kisser imo. 
I have absolutely zero faith in any fairness being applied here. 
This country is absolutely rotten. 
 

Unfortunately I agree

[Jamstomorrow]

7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

If you mean that lassie from West Lothian her name is Corpus, no idea who this Linford character is.

No!  No!   You are thinking of the person who stayed at 10 Rillington Place.

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, McCrae said:

If Hearts are awarded compensation its not just the clubs that are at risk.  The very future of the SPFL would be in doubt. The millions they are being forced to payback to Sky and BT and how this will impact the monies available to clubs is potentially as big a headache  that is not really being discussed.  Can the SPFL continue to trade?

 

I think the SPFL are confident that they have this case in the bag so any talk of compensation is moot.

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

No!  No!   You are thinking of the person who stayed at 10 Rillington Place.

 

You're right enough, my mistake. That's Agatha isn't it?

[Jamstomorrow]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

You're right enough, my mistake. That's Agatha isn't it?

I think you may be referring to Brinkley.

[AlimOzturk]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I think a lot of people need to chill with what they think is going to happen here, you’re setting yourselves up for another big slap across the kisser imo. 
I have absolutely zero faith in any fairness being applied here. 
This country is absolutely rotten. 
 

Its an independent panel mate and Lord Clarke has already released the any confidential documents we may need to take these ***** down. Quietly confident there’s a smoking gun in there. Unfortunately we will never find that out even if we do win as these things as have to remain confidential through the arbitration process. 
 

**** them if we lose. We can at least hold our heads high and say we done everything possible to right an injustice. 

[Boab Mugabe]

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I think a lot of people need to chill with what they think is going to happen here, you’re setting yourselves up for another big slap across the kisser imo. 
I have absolutely zero faith in any fairness being applied here. 
This country is absolutely rotten. 
 

This is what I believe as well. I’ll be stunned if the panel don’t find in the SPFL’s favour.

[Italian Lambretta]

12 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I think the SPFL are confident that they have this case in the bag so any talk of compensation is moot.

Would that be a brown paper bag by any chance

[wavydavy]

21 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Will we even know when the arbitration panel have started?  How will the results be announced?

If we lose  then you can guarantee a joint announcement from Mclennan and Doncaster where they will both be slating us and saying how much money we have cost all the teams

 

we should now all get behind them in their goal to help Celtic win their ten in a row.

 

[alicante jambo]

1 hour ago, Boab Mugabe said:

This is what I believe as well. I’ll be stunned if the panel don’t find in the SPFL’s favour.

Me too.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

9 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You got it ... they’re all extremely thick!

While, in truth, they are not all extremely thick, I do believe, though, that they are not as clever as they think they are, which is why Scottish football is in such a mess.

 

Because of their own shortcomings they are, or at least a large proportion of them are, unable to stand up to people they view as more powerful than them, and there's also leaders, like Doncaster, who are well versed in the art of making people think they know what they are talking about, taking advantage of the club boards' weaknesses in allowing themselves to be led rather than having to make informed decisions that might mean standing up for what is right. There is also the way our media tends to pick a side and ridicule those with the guts to take the opposite view, meaning some of the clubs' board members are afraid that negative publicity might harm their own businesses, or even their personal standing within the community.

 

It looks to me like Ann Budge, and one or two others, are bucking the trend, and the rest don't like it - perhaps because she is highlighting their inadequacies, and also their cowardice.

[David McCaig]

3 minutes ago, Boab Mugabe said:

This is what I believe as well. I’ll be stunned if the panel don’t find in the SPFL’s favour.

I fail to see how the panel can consider the revocation of Dundee's vote to be allowable without the decision being referred back to the Court of Session as a serious error in law.

 

If Dundee's vote is, as it has to be, considered irrevocable... The resolution failed and Hearts are still a Premiership side.  The decision on prejudice and unfairness really relates to what future resolutions the SPFL can table to end the 19/20 season.

[PapaShango]

We have been stitched up from the very start of this and I don't think it will change with the arbitration process.

 

Scottish football is so backwards and corrupt (in plain site) that it's actually embarrassing. This goes for the top brass at Hampden all the way to the our national broadcaster on tv and radio and the red top rags are basically propaganda machines for each half of the old firm.

 

 

[McCrae]

20 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I think the SPFL are confident that they have this case in the bag so any talk of compensation is moot.

 

 or they are so scared they don't want to publicly address the issue.

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Its an independent panel mate and Lord Clarke has already released the any confidential documents we may need to take these ***** down. Quietly confident there’s a smoking gun in there. Unfortunately we will never find that out even if we do win as these things as have to remain confidential through the arbitration process. 
 

**** them if we lose. We can at least hold our heads high and say we done everything possible to right an injustice. 

 

12 minutes ago, Boab Mugabe said:

This is what I believe as well. I’ll be stunned if the panel don’t find in the SPFL’s favour.

 

23 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Unfortunately I agree

I hope I’m wrong lads. Experience tells me I won’t be though. 
🤞🏼

[luckydug]

25 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I think a lot of people need to chill with what they think is going to happen here, you’re setting yourselves up for another big slap across the kisser imo. 
I have absolutely zero faith in any fairness being applied here. 
This country is absolutely rotten. 
 

I would be more confident if the case had stayed in the COS. 

Goodness knows what could happen behind closed doors. 

Wish folk would keep the politics out of things though. 

This is purely a football matter. 

[Spellczech]

I think we have a decent case but I also think the SPFL will win and we won't really understand why. It is the way of these things.

[Old Pivotonian]

Double post. Sorry

Edited July 13, 2020 by Old Pivotonian

[Niemi’s gloves]

JKB in bi-polar mode it seems. 
 

[AlimOzturk]

See if we do win and are compensated will every team therefore be entitled to compensation as well as technically they all could have improved their league positions and had a bigger financial reward as a result?

[AlimOzturk]

Just now, Niemi’s gloves said:

JKB in bi-polar mode it seems. 
 

Can’t blame anyone for feeling that way. The world has turned to shit and our team is being shafted left right and centre. 

[Old Pivotonian]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

And the loser now will be later to win.

Having said all that; 

And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Old Pivotonian

[jambo-in-furness]

Hellfire another JKB mood swing 😩

 

wish I hadn’t bothered getting out of my scratcher.

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I would be more confident if the case had stayed in the COS. 

Goodness knows what could happen behind closed doors. 

Wish folk would keep the politics out of things though. 

This is purely a football matter. 

It’s not - that is why Lord Clark wanted the arbitration panel to be from the legal profession and not ex football people.

[graygo]

26 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

I think you may be referring to Brinkley.

 

Right, so to confirm - the auld guy they've trotted out to spout his pish was once in charge of the Ferranti works football team and played one of the lead roles in the film Don't look now alongside Donald Sutherland.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

See if we do win and are compensated will every team therefore be entitled to compensation as well as technically they all could have improved their league positions and had a bigger financial reward as a result?

Hibs voted not to improve their league position....

[frankblack]

24 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I fail to see how the panel can consider the revocation of Dundee's vote to be allowable without the decision being referred back to the Court of Session as a serious error in law.

 

If Dundee's vote is, as it has to be, considered irrevocable... The resolution failed and Hearts are still a Premiership side.  The decision on prejudice and unfairness really relates to what future resolutions the SPFL can table to end the 19/20 season.

 

If we win on this point is there anything to stop the SPFL forcing through another vote by the end of the week to correct it and send us down?