Lovecraft Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, John Rambo said: I posted a longer extract earlier as a distraction from the 'case'! Ah. Missed it among all the usual bickering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dongcaster Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, GBJambo said: And who would pick this panel? The SFA of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, GBJambo said: And who would pick this panel? Apparently it is done confidentially through a random draw of the pool of names set aside for such matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Neil Dongcaster said: The SFA of course... 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Sooperstar said: Apparently it is done confidentially through a random draw of the pool of names set aside for such matters. Ive seen those SFA draws before ... Rod Stewart drunk or radiators at the ready! 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Sooperstar said: Apparently it is done confidentially through a random draw of the pool of names set aside for such matters. You mean the pool of names of club representatives who absolutely hate us and want us to #takeourmedicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 We'll argue that it is outwith the jurisdiction of footballing authorities as the vote broke company law and unlawful demotion is a restriction on our ability to trade. Arbitration is their Hail Mary shit. They have **** all else. It's like a murderer pleading not guilty to murder but trying to get off on man slaughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: Ah. Missed it among all the usual bickering. I'm only dipping in and out today. This whole farago is very, VERY frustrating. Could/should have been resolved in April with a sensibly worded resolution, but NO, here we are.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 37 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said: Good one Haha, yep, I'm obviously new to this 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said: I would err on the side of caution about posting whats been said. Some people are not getting it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: BBC saying the league fixtures are out on Monday. Be a shame if they had to "re-do" them eh? If the boy Jerry that was tasked to schedule, then they would have easily been able to use Hearts as a basis (to ensure no Edinburgh conflict) and substitute with Utd once the fixtures were derived. There should be no need to re-do the schedule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: Did he miss out the bit that says that clubs can take disputes to the Court of Session if outside the scope of the SFA? As in disputes covered by civil/company law! I suspect he did. Im quite sure the Presiding Learned Lord will be up to speed with the SPFL/SFA rules and regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzinho Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cruyff said: We'll argue that it is outwith the jurisdiction of footballing authorities as the vote broke company law and unlawful demotion is a restriction on our ability to trade. Arbitration is their Hail Mary shit. They have **** all else. It's like a murderer pleading not guilty to murder but trying to get off on man slaughter. That's the thing, if their only defence is arbitration, does this mean that they're effectively admitting that the resolution vote never passed and they completely bungled it? Sure I'm missing something here but that's my interpretation at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, IveSeenTheLight said: If the boy Jerry that was tasked to schedule, then they would have easily been able to use Hearts as a basis (to ensure no Edinburgh conflict) and substitute with Utd once the fixtures were derived. There should be no need to re-do the schedule Unless it was 14 teams though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: It's not unfair. The reason for DU/RR/CR going first is that they have put a motion to the court about its competence to adjudicate the dispute. That has to come before the merits of the Hearts/PT claim itself. The "respondents", as they have raised to motion, will get the first and last words in this hearing. The "petitioners" in the arguments on the main case (Hearts & PT) will speak first and last in that hearing should it go ahead. Thanks for clarifying that FF. I knew there would be possibly be some legal rules regarding who gets to speak and in what order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 57 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said: If the boy Jerry that was tasked to schedule, then they would have easily been able to use Hearts as a basis (to ensure no Edinburgh conflict) and substitute with Utd once the fixtures were derived. There should be no need to re-do the schedule Hearts and hibs at home same day? Police wont have that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Was the Dundee Utd.lawyer representing Cove and Raith as we well or do we still have to listen to their own guys.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said: It's their entire case for it not going to the CoS. If it did go further they would then try to justify everything with various other defence. I do wonder if the SPFL's QC will now put forward an argument as to why it should be heard by the SFA other than just referring to what is said in the SPFL/SFA rules. It's like saying it should go to the authority that the rules that the petitioners says were broken say it should go to rather than saying, and evidencing, that taking it to the SFA will somehow give a better, and fairer, outcome than is achievable in a court of law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsmad1874 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, alicante jambo said: Hearts and hibs at home same day? Police wont have that. If we are reinstated at the expense of Utd, they will just schedule the fixtures with Hibs and Utd never at home on the same matchday. Be interesting if this case goes beyond Monday and that is/isn’t the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Unless it was 14 teams though Good point. I thought there was likely to be a fixture struggle with 12 teams starting the LC late etc. If they're talking about 4 games in 8 days, then I'm sure they could accomodate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, willie wallace said: Was the Dundee Utd.lawyer representing Cove and Raith as we well or do we still have to listen to their own guys.? All 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, willie wallace said: Was the Dundee Utd.lawyer representing Cove and Raith as we well or do we still have to listen to their own guys.? He was representing all three clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Hearts and hibs at home same day? Police wont have that. It could have been scheduled to avoid that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Footballfirst said: He was representing all three clubs Are we expecting this to carry over until tomorow FF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said: Im quite sure the Presiding Learned Lord will be up to speed with the SPFL/SFA rules and regulations. I am also sure of that, but I was replying to someone who appeared to think that the Dundee Utd QC had put forward a damning (to us) case and we were damned...I tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 57 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said: If we are reinstated at the expense of Utd, they will just schedule the fixtures with Hibs and Utd never at home on the same matchday. Be interesting if this case goes beyond Monday and that is/isn’t the case. Your right thanks for that. Will be very interesting if it goes beyond monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 56 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said: It could have been scheduled to avoid that though I agree mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, gov said: Have we spoke yet no? Not yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: All 3 3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: He was representing all three clubs Cheers guys.Thank goodness for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo66 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 It seems to me (and I've not listened to any of it) that the promoted 3 want this to go to arbitration because the matter will not then be decided on legal matters. Our case does appear to be legally very strong. In arbitration, it is all about getting some sort of deal done. That means that arbitration is much more likely to result in compensation than reinstatement. If this is heard in the CoS, then the law will be to the fore. That makes reinstatement more likely in my view. Interesting that after this morning, while several posters think that this will be remitted to the SFA, there are several who think the opposite. Remember that all we have heard so far is the other side's argument. If many people are unconvinced by their arguments before our QC has said anything, that's pretty positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatonjambo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said: On the basis that the QC for DUFC etc has all but complete (he needs another "10 minutes") , here's my take on what happened. QC for DUFC/Cove/Raith opened Hearts are wrong : they are "contractually bound to go to Arbitration" because the articles of SPFL & SFA require it as condition of membership. Judge asked if SFA could arbitrate in time for new season ? Borland said "yes" but if they don't do it in time it's not DUFCs fault - Hearts waited 2 months before launching court proceedings. Judge - hang on - there was talk of reconstruction ?! Borland QC - HMFC say "it's likely to be impractical/impossible to solve in arbitration - SPECIFICALLY , HMFC are acknowledging the time issue. Judge said - so what happens if it's not done in time for new start date ? Borland - HMFC acknwledge this cos they're seeking damages in that event. Hearts seem to be relying on a case of StJohnstone v SFA from 1965. Borland making a strong case this doesn't apply. Just because HMFC claim "unfair prejudice" doesn't mean it can't go to arbitration. In short, am was all about Hearts being wrong, they ought to be going to arbitration, their case is amongst other things "wrong" & "fanciful". Remains to be seen how HMFCs lawyers make case for no arbitration. These are my own views on what has transpired, I'm not a lawyer, no questions please. I wish I had den t bothered getting the phone in details now. one thing to bare in mind. The season doesn’t start on. The 1st of August. Technically its already begun. For H&S reasons you need a preseason for the players. So Arbitration cant be done in time as preseason has al,ready started and we cant train! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 I don't remember the SPFA asking us to attend arbitration at any time during this almighty f.ck up......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 18 minutes ago, Sooperstar said: Apparently it is done confidentially through a random draw of the pool of names set aside for such matters. Interesting but names of who - people inside or outside football? Surely now the situation has become so tribal no-one could genuinely act independently. Ive not heard anyone say - well I don't have an opinion on this...Which is why the legal route was the only option to resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty2442 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 “Yir oot the game” 🙈🙈🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Benzinho said: That's the thing, if their only defence is arbitration, does this mean that they're effectively admitting that the resolution vote never passed and they completely bungled it? Sure I'm missing something here but that's my interpretation at the moment. We are not at the stage where the two cases have to be argued in full. I doubt that the SPFL have an awful lot more, though we've no real way of knowing, but they may well have something to present if the full case is heard in the Court of Session. It's not just us guessing, though, that they don't fancy their chances in a hearing not organized by their pals (some of whom are they, themselves) at the SFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsmad1874 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Cruyff said: Sound. 👍 Our QC will have plenty ammo lined up. They are due to stop at 4 and decide when to resume, feel like we are running out of time to speak today the longer this idiot waffles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said: Are we expecting this to carry over until tomorow FF? Definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Heartsmad1874 said: They are due to stop at 4 and decide when to resume, feel like we are running out of time to speak today the longer this idiot waffles. You would think they are paid by the hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozyuzi Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster Talk the case to death.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Our guy may not speak at all today. Todays session due to finish at 4. He has already said that he will take more than 1 hour. If SPFL guy doesnt stop very soon - likely to be adjourned without our QC speaking.. Maybe not a bad thing - as our guy gets a chance to take in what the other QCs have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Do QC's often say 'If I'm wrong?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Footballfirst said: Definitely Cheers mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 I wonder at the time the SPFL relegated us if they advised us that we could appeal to the SFA. My guess is that the SPFL have withheld inconvenient information throughout and would not have offered this as an option in their haste to get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, poultry said: Could work in our favour if they waffle to the end of the day. Will give us more time to absorb the shit they said and rip in to them when we resume. Yeah, can't see any negative for our case in getting tore into them tomorrow or Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Diadora Van Basten said: I wonder at the time the SPFL relegated us if they advised us that we could appeal to the SFA. My guess is that the SPFL have withheld inconvenient information throughout and would not have offered this as an option in their haste to get it done. Equally likely we would have seen such a move as a stitch up and, in fact, that is still the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 The SFA wrote to UEFA days before advising on the outcome of the vote days before the vote took place, Mike Mulraney who voted to end the season is on the board, as is Neil doncaster Independent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: You would think they are paid by the hour. Paid by the minute..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said: Do QC's often say 'If I'm wrong?' Yes. A QC will put forward his argument to the judge. He then gives himself a fallback position if the judge doesn't agree with his argument. Edited July 1, 2020 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Footballfirst said: Yes. A QC will put forward his argument to the judge. He then gives himself a fallback position if the judge doesn't agree with his argument. Cheers 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Do they do that whole objection thing in Scottish Courts and get told to re-phrase by the judge if it is sustained? 🤔 Or is that just in America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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