One five Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/jul/31/celtic-chase-a-perfect-10-but-for-how-long-rangers-old-firm not sure if this has been posted yet. Edited July 31, 2020 by One five Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, One five said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/jul/31/celtic-chase-a-perfect-10-but-for-how-long-rangers-old-firm not sure if this has been posted yet. He is correct on so many of his points. Celtic winning 10 in a row, and bragging about it, is like a Tesco superstore bragging about making more money than the corner shop up the road. Their previous 9 in a row was acheived on a fairly even playing field. This one included seasons where Rangers, Hearts and Hibs weren't in the same division, and Celtic had the benefit of a, relatively unchalleged, regular multi million pounds donation from UEFA. If Celtic hadn't won the league for the last 9 years, serious questions would have need to be asked. It's funny how, when Celtic lose, usually heavily, to a real European powerhouse, we get the bleating, from press and Celtic fans, of how that club has such a financial advantage over Celtic, and its "no fair". But we never hear the same comment about the financial advantage Celtic have, in major part for sectarian reasons, over all the other Scottish clubs, when they win trophies here. Edited July 31, 2020 by SectionDJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc1984 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, One five said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/jul/31/celtic-chase-a-perfect-10-but-for-how-long-rangers-old-firm not sure if this has been posted yet. Someone in the media trots this kind of article out every now and then but how do clubs outside the old firm genuinely break their dominance. No one wants to seriously change the set up that would possibly level the playing field. If Scottish football genuinely wants to improve at club and international level then we need an agreed collective approach with an independent board that is not made up of club chairmen. Look at the NFL for one example where each year the lowest ranked team gets first pick at the yearly draft of new players. Of course teams still dominate in the sport but it is one way that parity can be brought closer. Football isn't a sport as long as clubs can simply buy success, it is simply (at top flight level) a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: He is correct on so many of his points. Celtic winning 10 in a row, and bragging about it, is like a Tesco superstore bragging about making more money than the corner shop up the road. Their previous 9 in a row was acheived on a fairly even playing field. This one included seasons where Rangers, Hearts and Hibs weren't in the same division, and Celtic had the benefit of a, relatively unchalleged, regular multi million pounds donation from UEFA. If Celtic hadn't won the league for the last 9 years, serious questions would have need to be asked. It's funny how, when Celtic lose, usually heavily, to a real European powerhouse, we get the bleating, from press and Celtic fans, of how that club has such a financial advantage over Celtic, and its "no fair". But we never hear the same comment about the financial advantage Celtic have, in major part for sectarian reasons, over all the other Scottish clubs, when they win trophies here. Celtic will go on to win 20 in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, hmfc1984 said: Someone in the media trots this kind of article out every now and then but how do clubs outside the old firm genuinely break their dominance. No one wants to seriously change the set up that would possibly level the playing field. If Scottish football genuinely wants to improve at club and international level then we need an agreed collective approach with an independent board that is not made up of club chairmen. Look at the NFL for one example where each year the lowest ranked team gets first pick at the yearly draft of new players. Of course teams still dominate in the sport but it is one way that parity can be brought closer. Football isn't a sport as long as clubs can simply buy success, it is simply (at top flight level) a business. You don't break their dominance, you breakaway and form the level playing field this article refers. It may be difficult, but is it not worth the effort. I have touched on this before , but the perfect medium for engaging with other interested clubs is FOH. We are very well respected throughout Scottish football and at this moment we are not the "club" board. The club would not be in danger of bringing the game into disrepute as it's not the club putting out these feelers. Something has to change and now is the time to do it, if not Scottish football is heading to the abyss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malco Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Perhaps Stendel along with others that have lost their employment, income reduced, terms reduced could sue the SPFL?, class law suit against them? Do we as shareholders have the rights to see the documentation that AB/directors/lawyers saw? Don't know what information AB/Board are allowed to comment on?. Still fizzing that we are relegated despite season not finishing, don't know any other business that could allow voting results to be published then allow a party to change their vote without getting approval from all other shareholders as would be normal company procedures! The judge obviously saw enough to refer it to arbitration which seems to have been flawed, grilling witness on Skype or whatever format is a joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 18 hours ago, Gary Locke said: Rumour going round that hearts are getting point deduction for taking spfl to court... any truth in this anyone? Nothing in the rules to allow them to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canada Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Nothing in the rules to allow them to do that. Rules can be ignored quite easily though like the ones about consulting all parties before changing the pyramid structure. They just did it this season knowing that nobody could afford to challenge it in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) has anyone heard what happend in Belgium? Beveren posted on thier website about Justice being done. Edited July 31, 2020 by Rods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 18 clubs to play in the Belgian First Division during the next two seasons The Pro League, the governing body of professional football in Belgium has reached agreement on the number of teams that will play in the top tier of Belgian football for the next two season. The Pro League had wanted to keep the number of teams in the First Division at 16, but was forced to re-think its position after legal action taken by the club that was to have been relegated from the top flight, Waasland-Beveren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 18 clubs to play in the Belgian First Division during the next two seasons - https://vrtnws.be/p.XPMRwyljJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 You can only put so much pressure on people before they snap. People will take only so much. If there is a concerted campaign to hurt our club by the authorities, then we will fight back by whatever means we can. The governing bodies would be advised to take their victory in good grace and not try and push us any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: The governing bodies would be advised to take their victory in good grace That will be the delighted and vindicated Dungcaster you are speaking off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dongcaster Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Didn’t the Belgian club go to CAS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: That will be the delighted and vindicated Dungcaster you are speaking off! Yep. It’s what they would be advised to do, not what they will do, in their arrogance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Funny how legal action was successful in Belgium but unsuccessful in Scotland. Also funny how CAS can publish the outcome of arbitration but the SFA can’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said: Funny how legal action was successful in Belgium but unsuccessful in Scotland. Also funny how CAS can publish the outcome of arbitration but the SFA can’t. The whole situation just stinks of corruption and the worst might be yet to come, I don't believe for a minute the SFA will be easy on us regardless of what Lord Clark said, the SFA and SPFL have been putting the boots to us right from the beginning, why would that change now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Justice served in Belgium. Meanwhile in Scotland, murky dealings and secret behind closed door proceedings deny justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, gator said: The whole situation just stinks of corruption and the worst might be yet to come, I don't believe for a minute the SFA will be easy on us regardless of what Lord Clark said, the SFA and SPFL have been putting the boots to us right from the beginning, why would that change now? Probably correct. I don’t think it would be wise on their part to do so, though. Who knows what we might do the next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Justice served in Belgium. Meanwhile in Scotland, murky dealings and secret behind closed door proceedings deny justice. Scottish football has a history of punishing clubs rather than helping them. With 2 obvious exceptions, of course. It’s just in the dna of the SFA and League associations. Spite overcomes all other thought. The results of this enlightened approach can be seen in the raging success of our national team and the general performance of our clubs in Europe, over the last 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Does anyone know when these wage furloughs end and our detractors have to stand on their own two feet financially? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Tokyo Drifter said: Trouble is a small or minimal fine sets a precedent. It says that if you take the SPFL to court and flout (in the SFA's eyes) the SFA rule about NOT doing that, you only get a small fine. That means any other club which might want to go to court will fancy it's worth it because the financial penalty will be small. If the SFA want to dissuade other clubs from going to court they're going to want to clobber us. That's my fear. What's the point of going to court if the judge just bounces it back to SFA arbitration. Make no mistake this has been a big victory for the SPFL it means they are untouchable. Any dispute just ends up in front of a panel who are completely anonymous and don't have to explain their findings to anyone. As long as no criminality is proven they (SPFL) can do as they please. We might as well saved our money we wanted to take the SPFL to court not an anonymous committee hired by the SFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Any fine should be rejected outright. Take them back to court to quash any fine. Seemed from LCs comments that this is a legitimate avenue (i.e can't be chucked back to 'arbitration') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, luckydug said: What's the point of going to court if the judge just bounces it back to SFA arbitration. Make no mistake this has been a big victory for the SPFL it means they are untouchable. Any dispute just ends up in front of a panel who are completely anonymous and don't have to explain their findings to anyone. As long as no criminality is proven they (SPFL) can do as they please. We might as well saved our money we wanted to take the SPFL to court not an anonymous committee hired by the SFA. With respect, if nothing criminal or unlawful was found in CoS then we'd still lose! Had there been then the arbitration panel would have decided in our favour. Doesn't mean we aren't morally justified and "right" but the law is the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 At least we know we can have a jolly good riot after a cup final at hampden without troubling the SFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Boris said: With respect, if nothing criminal or unlawful was found in CoS then we'd still lose! Had there been then the arbitration panel would have decided in our favour. Doesn't mean we aren't morally justified and "right" but the law is the law. The difference is everything would be in the public domain. It's crazy we STILL don't know what happened with that Dundee vote. Edited July 31, 2020 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: The difference is everything would be in the public domain. It's crazy we STILL don't know what happened with that Dundee vote. I think it all sits around the 28 days, horrendously handled but not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 41 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: The difference is everything would be in the public domain. It's crazy we STILL don't know what happened with that Dundee vote. Agree about the lack of transparency, it's all a bit cloak and dagger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oi oi Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said: Funny how legal action was successful in Belgium but unsuccessful in Scotland. Also funny how CAS can publish the outcome of arbitration but the SFA can’t. Different Articles of Association? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oi oi Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said: The difference is everything would be in the public domain. It's crazy we STILL don't know what happened with that Dundee vote. At the very least, the findings of the "independent" investigation should be published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, steve123 said: I think it all sits around the 28 days, horrendously handled but not illegal. I still maintain Dundee voted on something completely different in the end after their private discussions. It's the private discussions part that stinks the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: I still maintain Dundee voted on something completely different in the end after their private discussions. It's the private discussions part that stinks the most. Could not agree more, but only thing I can think leaves a horrible shadow over Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 10 hours ago, Dazo said: Lord Clark couldn’t care less and his hands are washed of this, his words will mean nowt when it comes to our punishment. Tell that to Lord Clark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret the Hitman Hearts Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 13 hours ago, Dazo said: Lord Clark couldn’t care less and his hands are washed of this, his words will mean nowt when it comes to our punishment. Only in Scotland could you get kicked out a league before it's finished into a league that won't start for 2 more months... and the actual punishment for having the temerity to try and fight back is still to come. The North Korea of the football world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said: Only in Scotland could you get kicked out a league before it's finished into a league that won't start for 2 more months... and the actual punishment for having the temerity to try and fight back is still to come. The North Korea of the football world Yip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Chase them round the terracing singing we are the Gorgie Boot Boys!!! Old fashioned .... I know it’s wrong BUT it still feels good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, oi oi said: At the very least, the findings of the "independent" investigation should be published. It was, it was a sham with incredibly narrow terms of reference but it was published. Wasn't it? Actually maybe you are right, all I can see was what donkey and Karyn McCluskey fed the press about it. Edited July 31, 2020 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Boris said: Agree about the lack of transparency, it's all a bit cloak and dagger. Which is exactly what Mr Vindication and his slug of an in-house lawyer knew would happen once it got back into their house. In a democracy they should not be allowed to get away with acting as judge jury and executioner. The articles of association need to be dismantled and rewritten (not by the fat slug). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 14 hours ago, ToqueJambo said: I still maintain Dundee voted on something completely different in the end after their private discussions. It's the private discussions part that stinks the most. maybe the same private discussions that resulted in Strachan getting a well paid gig with Celtictv and at the same time finding the time to take on extra responsibility at Dundee free of charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I know the club has accepted the decision on our relegation but I'm wondering why we didn't go back to the CoS seeking a fair amount for loss of earnings. Anyone........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, Section Q said: I know the club has accepted the decision on our relegation but I'm wondering why we didn't go back to the CoS seeking a fair amount for loss of earnings. Anyone........? Because that was within the remit of arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Because that was within the remit of arbitration. Still not clear Dave. Didn't the judge suggest their could be a return to court.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Section Q said: Still not clear Dave. Didn't the judge suggest their could be a return to court.....? Only if there were procedural/legal issues with the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Only if there were procedural/legal issues with the process. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvock jambo Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 40 minutes ago, Section Q said: I know the club has accepted the decision on our relegation but I'm wondering why we didn't go back to the CoS seeking a fair amount for loss of earnings. Anyone........? May have missed it, is there parachute payments from spfl, if so, anyone know how much?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, Mr Wan said: May have missed it, is there parachute payments from spfl, if so, anyone know how much?? Parachute payments of circa £300K , I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvock jambo Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 15/07/2020 at 14:43, mitch41 said: Poker players who never put their cards on the table. How can anyone trust a corrupt league that threaten and bully clubs as well as a governing body like the SFA who just want to punish clubs for standing up to a league that panders to the ugly sisters. 12 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said: Parachute payments of circa £300K , I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvock jambo Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Enough to pay SFA fine!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr Wan said: Enough to pay SFA fine!!!!! Hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braveheart Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Asked on sportsound if the arbitration process could be made public dungcaster said it would have to be agreed by all parties which he had no objection.also keeps repeating that they are a members association and the club's decide everything.how the fcks this muppet on 400k for deciding nothing🤷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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