SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

 

Apparently not,  due to the  new variants.  😲

 

Yes, I agree with that.  Although it seems Robbie is willing to play Frear  and/or Roberts already !!  🙄 

 

I think the evidence shows that there is no increase in individual risk from catching the mutant strain - the bigger risk is in the transmissibility. The other reason they are worried about that is that the level of vaccination needed to control it also increases. This is why measles comes back when a few anti-vaxxers go on a crusade because the R number for measles is 16-18 from memory and therefore you need over 90% of the population to be vaccinated to stop measles spreading.

[Spellczech]

9 hours ago, Jap Jambo said:

 

Depends how you do it, but can be done for less than £5 a go if you buy in boxes of 25 from Germany.

Yeah but this was last summer. Must be cheaper now. Not sure those 39% accurate quick tests are worth the spit and snot though...

[PapaShango]

I see the Chief Executive of Rochdale saying the EFL will inevitably be stopped. I don't think we should be stopping here. I think if we stop we will never get going again for a number of reasons. 

[kingantti1874]

I don’t think it’s inevitable sport will be stopped.. it isn’t a factor in the spread and in all honesty I think that governments have recognised that having access to watch sport, and go exercise is very important for people to maintain some sort of sanity.. I think it is one of the few areas which will be allowed to continue.. we just need to get to about 18:19 fixtures played and be at the top of the league

[4marsbars]

12 hours ago, Spellczech said:

but young fit men under 38 are low risk.

 

Low risk in the sense of less likely to die if infected. But high risk if they pass it on. There is no such thing as low risk.

 

But here's how it works, without testing.

 

Fit young player gets infected but has no symptoms, nobody notices

  (with testing fit young player is detected and isolates)

 

Fit young player goes home and infects his two kids

  (with testing he isolates and does not infect anyone0

 

Two kids play with two of their mates and infect them

  (with testing, the kids did not have the virus so nothing spreads)

 

These mates infect their parents

  (with testing, this does not happen)

 

Parents are also asymptomatic, and one works as a carer. Although regularly tested, he passes it on to a small number of old or vulnerable people, and they pass it on to others, including via other carers. Several die. Others go to hospital which is already crowded. The problem gets worse.

  (with testing, the infection does not continue along this chain)

 

There is no such thing as a 'low risk' occurrence of covid 19. 

Football is a high risk activity whose immediate participants are fit and healthy.

But they also have contacts.

Before you know where you are, you've infected vulnerable people.

 

If Hearts can afford regular testing, then by implementing it they are protecting us all, including our most vulnerable family members.

 

Taking into account what other teams can implement, and trying to figure out some competitive advantage or disadvantage is the wrong calculation. 

[Spellczech]

12 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

Low risk in the sense of less likely to die if infected. But high risk if they pass it on. There is no such thing as low risk.

 

But here's how it works, without testing.

 

Fit young player gets infected but has no symptoms, nobody notices

  (with testing fit young player is detected and isolates)

 

Fit young player goes home and infects his two kids

  (with testing he isolates and does not infect anyone0

 

Two kids play with two of their mates and infect them

  (with testing, the kids did not have the virus so nothing spreads)

 

These mates infect their parents

  (with testing, this does not happen)

 

Parents are also asymptomatic, and one works as a carer. Although regularly tested, he passes it on to a small number of old or vulnerable people, and they pass it on to others, including via other carers. Several die. Others go to hospital which is already crowded. The problem gets worse.

  (with testing, the infection does not continue along this chain)

 

There is no such thing as a 'low risk' occurrence of covid 19. 

Football is a high risk activity whose immediate participants are fit and healthy.

But they also have contacts.

Before you know where you are, you've infected vulnerable people.

 

If Hearts can afford regular testing, then by implementing it they are protecting us all, including our most vulnerable family members.

 

Taking into account what other teams can implement, and trying to figure out some competitive advantage or disadvantage is the wrong calculation. 

You are assuming that asymptomatic people pass it on to other asymptomatic people. If that is true then it is likely to happen anyway. If however, the next person to catch it from the asymptomatic person shows symptoms then we are simply where we would have been anyway. Personally I believe people make far too much of testing. A negative test just means you haven't got it yet - Look at Jeremy Clarkson: On social media celebrating a negative test and about 2 days later he had Covid.

 

The big curveball from March was the realisation that people were asymptomatic. This virus has now been around for probably a year, and I've never been tested, and my wife has worked in the ICU with people dying of Covid and she is about to have her first ever test for Covid this week...she has never shown any symptoms. I had a week last March of what I would call "consciousness of breathing" and I struggled on a walk in the Pentlands by the ski slope which I'd managed fine 4 days earlier. I'll never know if that was Covid or not.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Spellczech

[4marsbars]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You are assuming that asymptomatic people pass it on to other asymptomatic people. If that is true then it is likely to happen anyway. If however, the next person to catch it from the asymptomatic person shows symptoms then we are simply where we would have been anyway. Personally I believe people make far too much of testing. A negative test just means you haven't got it yet - Look at Jeremy Clarkson: On social media celebrating a negative test and about 2 days later he had Covid.

 

The big curveball from March was the realisation that people were asymptomatic. This virus has now been around for probably a year, and I've never been tested, and my wife has worked in the ICU with people dying of Covid and she is about to have her first ever test for Covid this week...she has never shown any symptoms. I had a week last March of what I would call "consciousness of breathing" and I struggled on a walk in the Pentlands by the ski slope which I'd managed fine 4 days earlier.

 

You must be very proud of your wife. Massive respect from me.

 

I'm aware of all the different possibilities and uncertainties, when it comes to presymptomatic, asymptomatic, when people might be infectious, etc.

 

The point I'm making is to challenge the idea that any type of individual is 'low risk' by virtue of age or fitness-level.

 

We have to stop this thing spreading, and testing is part of the picture. Basing our (HMFC) policies/practices on how financially-poorer teams might operate is wrong, in my view. That is my point. 

 

 

[Hashimoto]

7 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You are assuming that asymptomatic people pass it on to other asymptomatic people. If that is true then it is likely to happen anyway. If however, the next person to catch it from the asymptomatic person shows symptoms then we are simply where we would have been anyway. Personally I believe people make far too much of testing. A negative test just means you haven't got it yet - Look at Jeremy Clarkson: On social media celebrating a negative test and about 2 days later he had Covid.

 

The big curveball from March was the realisation that people were asymptomatic. This virus has now been around for probably a year, and I've never been tested, and my wife has worked in the ICU with people dying of Covid and she is about to have her first ever test for Covid this week...she has never shown any symptoms. I had a week last March of what I would call "consciousness of breathing" and I struggled on a walk in the Pentlands by the ski slope which I'd managed fine 4 days earlier. I'll never know if that was Covid or not.

All good points....Likewise my wife, who's never had a real illness all our married life came down with a horrendous virus, February 2020, put it down to flu like symptoms. I too felt poorly, unable to walk, pain in both feet....Bearing in mind I was running 10k's and quite fit for my age. 
I think people would be surprised at the "real" number that have had some form of Covid this past year....And I do believe that Covid was on these shores a lot earlier than was first publicly recorded. Doctor's just didn't know what to look for, and it was easier to attribute it to seasonal flu. 

[Rogue Daddy]

43 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You are assuming that asymptomatic people pass it on to other asymptomatic people. If that is true then it is likely to happen anyway. If however, the next person to catch it from the asymptomatic person shows symptoms then we are simply where we would have been anyway. Personally I believe people make far too much of testing. A negative test just means you haven't got it yet - Look at Jeremy Clarkson: On social media celebrating a negative test and about 2 days later he had Covid.

 

The big curveball from March was the realisation that people were asymptomatic. This virus has now been around for probably a year, and I've never been tested, and my wife has worked in the ICU with people dying of Covid and she is about to have her first ever test for Covid this week...she has never shown any symptoms. I had a week last March of what I would call "consciousness of breathing" and I struggled on a walk in the Pentlands by the ski slope which I'd managed fine 4 days earlier. I'll never know if that was Covid or not.

Ditto! I have asthma and last March (for the first time in my 50 years), had to sleep sitting upright for a couple of nights. I just put it down to a bad cold, but like you say, we'll never know.

My wife has a 'chemist' friend (as in a clinical chemist, working in a lab)... who has access to a lot of medical journals etc. Apparently, according to said journals, the first recorded case of COVID in Europe was Italy, October 2019! I think, if this is the case, many of us may well already have had some exposure.  

As above, massive respect for your wife 👍

[highlandjambo3]

14 hours ago, Spellczech said:

I think Hearts are pre-empting anything the SPFL or SFA says or does. Makes it harder for them to cheat us out of promotion if the next step is to postpone the season... we are testing, up to SPFL to either get others to test or to pay for others' testing for them or to give us 3-0 wins if they default, because we are ready to play still.

 

Hearts are being smart here.

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere....I know we WERE testing, did we stop or not?  Are we testing now or, have we always been texting?

 

[jambopilms]

We need to make sure we are safely top of the league if there is any shut down.

With games against Dunfermline, 2x Raith and one away to Alloa this month if we decide not to show up again we could be in trouble.

[Spellczech]

35 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

You must be very proud of your wife. Massive respect from me.

 

I'm aware of all the different possibilities and uncertainties, when it comes to presymptomatic, asymptomatic, when people might be infectious, etc.

 

The point I'm making is to challenge the idea that any type of individual is 'low risk' by virtue of age or fitness-level.

 

We have to stop this thing spreading, and testing is part of the picture. Basing our (HMFC) policies/practices on how financially-poorer teams might operate is wrong, in my view. That is my point. 

 

 

OK there are "low-er" risk people, which is what Pro footballers are, just as there higher risk people. My belief is that it is the responsibility of Govt, family, carers and employers of carers etc to protect higher risk people, plus where they are compos mentis, the high risk people have to protect themselves, like my elderly parents do... It isn't the responsibility of employers of lower risk people to spend extra money to try to protect higher risk people on a basis of several levels of removal. Hearts have a responsibility is to any higher level employees, and, when the time comes, perhaps to high risk customers(fans) as much as possible...As for the footballers, bubbles and advice re social distancing same as any other employer are all that can reasonably be required.

 

The fact that Hearts are purposefully stepping up to do testing during this lockdown without a requirement to do so, is... tactical. It might help, it might not, but doing this is for football politics reasons as much, if nor more than, public health reasons...It is the smart move. The SPFL training shutdown shows that it is still run by the same arseholes and their attitude towards Hearts hasn't changed one bit.

[PapaShango]

6 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

We need to make sure we are safely top of the league if there is any shut down.

With games against Dunfermline, 2x Raith and one away to Alloa this month if we decide not to show up again we could be in trouble.

Exactly this. We need to turn up for these games as no doubt these teams especially when they are at home will fancy their chances against us if they can get in our faces. 

[Spellczech]

21 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere....I know we WERE testing, did we stop or not?  Are we testing now or, have we always been texting?

 

We were testing when we restarted training early, but stopped once the season began as it was not a requirement of our league by then and nobody else was testing in the Championship. We've started again now that the country has gone into lockdown, even though, thus far, it is not a requirement for our league.

[Hungry hippo]

9 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

We were testing when we restarted training early, but stopped once the season began as it was not a requirement of our league by then and nobody else was testing in the Championship. We've started again now that the country has gone into lockdown, even though, thus far, it is not a requirement for our league.

 

Plus before the Scottish Cup games against Hibs and Celtic as all clubs are required to test before playing against Premiership teams.

[Spellczech]

8 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Plus before the Scottish Cup games against Hibs and Celtic as all clubs are required to test before playing against Premiership teams.

Yep and that's why no SPL players have had Covid! 😈😇

[kingantti1874]

40 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

We need to make sure we are safely top of the league if there is any shut down.

With games against Dunfermline, 2x Raith and one away to Alloa this month if we decide not to show up again we could be in trouble.

yep.. this is why that Dundee game was such a massive disappointment. We could effectively have put the league to bed by the end of jan.. we still can if other results go our way

[Rods]

The SPFL should be stepping in and forcing teams to test.

 

They have got the money from the goverment to do this testing.

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I am the eternal optimist (for my sins), but I have major doubts that we will still be playing at the end of the month. 

 

I reckon they will suspend the lower leagues initially, then do the same with the Premier League or whatever the feck it's called.

 

Much will depend on the figures but can anyone really see them improving this winter ? 

And they will find a way to blame us for it

[PapaShango]

4 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I am the eternal optimist (for my sins), but I have major doubts that we will still be playing at the end of the month. 

 

I reckon they will suspend the lower leagues initially, then do the same with the Premier League or whatever the feck it's called.

 

Much will depend on the figures but can anyone really see them improving this winter ? 

I think they will let football continue as long as there an no further breaches. I have no evidence for it but just a hunch. If they do stop it will be another cluster mess that will unfold no doubt from the SFA/SPFL. 

[ramrod]

8 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I am the eternal optimist (for my sins), but I have major doubts that we will still be playing at the end of the month. 

 

I reckon they will suspend the lower leagues initially, then do the same with the Premier League or whatever the feck it's called.

 

Much will depend on the figures but can anyone really see them improving this winter ? 

The league's would have been put on hold yesterday If this was under consideration. I don't see the league being stopped unless things change dramatically, the govt  want to  stay ahead of the curve and If letting pro sport continue jeopardises this it would have been pauses yesterday. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by ramrod

[Gmcjambo]

58 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

yep.. this is why that Dundee game was such a massive disappointment. We could effectively have put the league to bed by the end of jan.. we still can if other results go our way

Next few games could be huge for us given the pandemic context - we could be 'in the mix' with Dundee and Dunf,  or create some real daylight.   What an opportunity we just missed.    Let's hope that we sort ourselves out and that football doesn't end up back in a vote driven by individual clubs' self interest.   

[1971fozzy]

4 hours ago, Gmcjambo said:

Next few games could be huge for us given the pandemic context - we could be 'in the mix' with Dundee and Dunf,  or create some real daylight.   What an opportunity we just missed.    Let's hope that we sort ourselves out and that football doesn't end up back in a vote driven by individual clubs' self interest.   

a bit like the St.Mirren (a) last season when we had to turn up but didn’t.

we simply have to win every game we play. I read Harings piece in the paper about team not being on it first 45mins at Dundee and I was raging.  They better damn well be on it every minute from now or we could be looking at surrendering our lead. His interview really riled me 

Edited January 5, 2021 by 1971fozzy

[Turkishcap]

43 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

a bit like the St.Mirren (a) last season when we had to turn up but didn’t.

we simply have to win every game we play. I read Harings piece in the paper about team not being on it first 45mins at Dundee and I was raging.  They better damn well be on it every minute from now or we could be looking at surrendering our lead. His interview really riled me 

And he didn`t blame the ref.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, 1971fozzy said:

a bit like the St.Mirren (a) last season when we had to turn up but didn’t.

we simply have to win every game we play. I read Harings piece in the paper about team not being on it first 45mins at Dundee and I was raging.  They better damn well be on it every minute from now or we could be looking at surrendering our lead. His interview really riled me 

We don’t have to win every game or even close to it.  We’ll still piss this league and the only danger is the league being voided - I doubt there is any chance there will be any promotion or relegation if, say, less than half the games are completed and of course Celtic will be pushing it this time, unlike last time. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Dundee united players supposed to have agreed to wage cuts the club asked for a bit back.

 

[Horatio Caine]

This just in - The SPFL & the JRG working with the SG have agreed that a mass vaccination centre be established at the Oriam, Edinburgh.  Unfortunately this means that Hearts will have to stop all use of the centre with immediate effect for the greater good of the health of the Nation.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but what about tonight's SC games? Will Brora be allowed to travel to Falkirk?

[Nookie Bear]

17 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

This just in - The SPFL & the JRG working with the SG have agreed that a mass vaccination centre be established at the Oriam, Edinburgh.  Unfortunately this means that Hearts will have to stop all use of the centre with immediate effect for the greater good of the health of the Nation.

 

That makes sense. Accessible, large space and under cover.

 

Maybe we should train in Dubai for a few days

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Don't know if it's been mentioned but what about tonight's SC games? Will Brora be allowed to travel to Falkirk?

They can travel to play football. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Just now, davemclaren said:

They can travel to play football. 

Yes just noticed the other thread, thanks anyway.

[EH23-Jambo]

Colts proposal

A new proposal to allow Celtic and Rangers Colts teams into an expanded League Two are set to be put forward after a request from the Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board. A previous submission by Rangers director Stewart Robertson didn’t get enough support. A new proposal could see the Colts teams joined by two from the Lowland League and two from the Highland League. (Daily Mail)

[Nookie Bear]

23 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Colts proposal

A new proposal to allow Celtic and Rangers Colts teams into an expanded League Two are set to be put forward after a request from the Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board. A previous submission by Rangers director Stewart Robertson didn’t get enough support. A new proposal could see the Colts teams joined by two from the Lowland League and two from the Highland League. (Daily Mail)

 

Oh just ******* **** off with this nonsense!!

 

(Not you, EH23-Jambo!)

 

My message to Ann Budge is: nobody backed you over restructure so you must vote against this at every opportunity.

[jbee647]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That makes sense. Accessible, large space and under cover.

 

Maybe we should train in Dubai for a few days

Won’t stop Hearts using the outside pitches or Academy hall, I assume it will be the big main undercover pitch that will be commandeered 

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Won’t stop Hearts using the outside pitches or Academy hall, I assume it will be the big main undercover pitch that will be commandeered 

 

And Hearts Season Ticket holders and FoH contributers get priority as well

[chrystaf]

22 hours ago, PapaShango said:

Exactly this. We need to turn up for these games as no doubt these teams especially when they are at home will fancy their chances against us if they can get in our faces. 

Yes, simple as that, or it should be.

[smiler]

50 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Colts proposal

A new proposal to allow Celtic and Rangers Colts teams into an expanded League Two are set to be put forward after a request from the Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board. A previous submission by Rangers director Stewart Robertson didn’t get enough support. A new proposal could see the Colts teams joined by two from the Lowland League and two from the Highland League. (Daily Mail)

They can get to **** with that shite. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

47 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Oh just ******* **** off with this nonsense!!

 

(Not you, EH23-Jambo!)

 

My message to Ann Budge is: nobody backed you over restructure so you must vote against this at every opportunity.

This

[Horatio Caine]

53 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Won’t stop Hearts using the outside pitches or Academy hall, I assume it will be the big main undercover pitch that will be commandeered 

OMG - my post in this thread about the Oriam was meant to be a p**s take.  Hope I haven't given anyone any ideas....🤥

[Gambo]

Re the Colts proposal, the last thing Scotland needs is more teams in the League set up.

[EIEIO]

20 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Re the Colts proposal, the last thing Scotland needs is more teams in the League set up.

This 100 percent. Leagues 1 and 2 should be like the current Lowland and Highland Leagues with automatic promotion/relegation between them and the championship. Expand the Premiership and Championship to say 16 teams each thats enough elite teams for a small nation like Scotland. Wont happen though.

[kingantti1874]

I’ve no objection to the colts proposal as long as the same door is open to all clubs. In fact - it’s a great idea

[Ex member of the SaS]

The initial idea of colt teams is good however when the bigot twins are pushing it you know they have an ulterior motive. There would need to be strong rules banning them from using players from the main team and vice versa and an even stronger rule that bans promotion. 

Imagine if the two had colt teams in the top flight?

Personally I would vote against it for reasons previously mentioned, but also because we can't get decent players for the full team never mind the distraction of a colt team and a woman's team.

[Nookie Bear]

Colts teams = maintaining a presence and influence within the Scottish game whilst the senior teams play in a European league.

[AHS51]

15 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ve no objection to the colts proposal as long as the same door is open to all clubs. In fact - it’s a great idea

 

Yeah I think its not the worst idea only if other clubs have the option. Personally think they should be focusing on bigger leagues, better prymaid system (play off for finishing bottom of league 2 is a shambles) get more leagues regionalised apart from top 2. Always said a good lower league system is good for the game. There's some really good, well run community clubs that would bring so much more to the lower leagues than the likes of cowdenbeath and brechin. We need to have a system that let's these better clubs grow.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, AHS51 said:

 

Yeah I think its not the worst idea only if other clubs have the option. Personally think they should be focusing on bigger leagues, better prymaid system (play off for finishing bottom of league 2 is a shambles) get more leagues regionalised apart from top 2. Always said a good lower league system is good for the game. There's some really good, well run community clubs that would bring so much more to the lower leagues than the likes of cowdenbeath and brechin. We need to have a system that let's these better clubs grow.

100% I’ve said it before and will say again..

 

16 team league.

 

round one.. everyone plates each or by twice -  30 fixtures 

 

round two.. top 8 and bottom 8 - 7 fixtures 

 

round 3.. playoffs - split into 4 group of 4 -

 

top group play for playoff for the title / CL

second group play off for last euro space

bottom four play off to avoid relegation places..

 

only the third group would be a dead rubber so the prize money should be weighted to make it better..

 

slightly more games will help finances, less dead fixtures, majority of teams always have something to play for and 4 OF derbies maintained.. which much as we may not like it is a must.

 

Could have 3 league do this with the third league bolstered with colt teams etc 

 

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

22 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Colts teams = maintaining a presence and influence within the Scottish game whilst the senior teams play in a European league.

we should all be looking to piss of to a European league.. **** Scottish football and all who sail in it 

[DETTY29]

8 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Oh just ******* **** off with this nonsense!!

 

(Not you, EH23-Jambo!)

 

My message to Ann Budge is: nobody backed you over restructure so you must vote against this at every opportunity.

Scotland needs less clubs in the 'professional' league system, not more.

Edited January 6, 2021 by DETTY29

[davemclaren]

Premiership clubs not happy

 

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/premiership-anger-builds-over-20m-23274074

[HMFC01]

35 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Premiership clubs not happy

 

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/premiership-anger-builds-over-20m-23274074

 

😀 

 

Good read 👍 

 

Some interesting points regarding part time, full time clubs.   Arbroath, Alloa getting a windfall of 500k to partick, Falkirk 150k.😕