SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Boris]

Maybe it's a media thing, but are any of the leagues in Europe postponing games due to covid? Can't say I've heard of any so far.

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, gjcc said:

How many games need played to ensure the league stands as is?

 

That number minus one is when the league will be deemed unplayable. 

 

Again because no one was willing to write the new rules.

 

Still 38 (or 27) games needed just now. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Rods said:

I still think the season will be completed.

 

I think now maybe teams in the bottom half of the league are bumping their gums due to not getting free money( you have to hope the SPFL told them they would get it) 

 

Reconstruction will be back on the table but it should be swatted aside due to last years carve up.

 

 

 

I think so too. There might be a break but I think they will resume to play to a finish, which they should have done last season. The long term outlook is much more positive now with vaccines already in use than it was in March. There really won't be an excuse to just end the season early the way they did before, even though part of me wants it to end exactly the same way so a team like Ross County is on the wrong end of it this time. There's even less reason for reconstruction this time around although that won't stop teams that voted against it now being in favour of it to save their own skins. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[ramrod]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think so too. There might be a break but I think they will resume to play to a finish, which they should have done last season. The long term outlook is much more positive now with vaccines already in use than it was in March. There really won't be an excuse to just end the season early the way they did before. There's even less reason for reconstruction this time around although that won't stop teams that voted against it now being in favour of it to save their own skins. 

There won't be any reconstruction chat  unless the league can't be finished. The two things go hand in hand 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

22 hours ago, Rods said:

What is next I wonder?

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/premiership-clubs-plead-scottish-government-23231816 

 

Ah yeh it will be reconstruction talks.

 

I look forward to us reminding them there was 3 failed attempts only last season.

 

"Top flight" clubs worried about paying off a loan of a couple of million over SIX YEARS. Maybe they really shouldn't be in the top flight. Start a fan fund. Cap your transfer budget. Reduce your wage bill. FFS.

Edited December 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Pasquale for King]

19 hours ago, Baxfee said:

But not on international stage. Consistently sell just under 70k at m’field. Too many football clubs pretending to be professional clubs - need to get rid of at least 10

It’s the same people, estimates are around 100-150k folk actively Interested or involved in rugby in Scotland. Golf is thriving during than is pandemic and is a bigger sport and gets nothing There are more cricket clubs in Scotland than rugby ones 😆😂. 
It’s £20m for rugby. 
https://www.gov.scot/news/emergency-funding-for-sport/

[Mr Elwood P]

13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think so too. There might be a break but I think they will resume to play to a finish, which they should have done last season. The long term outlook is much more positive now with vaccines already in use than it was in March. There really won't be an excuse to just end the season early the way they did before, even though part of me wants it to end exactly the same way so a team like Ross County is on the wrong end of it this time. There's even less reason for reconstruction this time around although that won't stop teams that voted against it now being in favour of it to save their own skins. 

 

I think football will be suspended but can't see where the time comes to complete the games? Euro2020(1) book ends this campaign which adds to the difficulty. It will be interesting to see if UK clubs are allowed to travel for European competition with this new strain running riot.

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, Boris said:

Maybe it's a media thing, but are any of the leagues in Europe postponing games due to covid? Can't say I've heard of any so far.

There’s been the odd one here and there, but the EPL don’t seem to be applying the UEFA instructions that if you have 13 fit players you must play, even the SFA/SPFL did that when we decided to loan them Zlamal. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s the same people, estimates are around 100-150k folk actively Interested or involved in rugby in Scotland. Golf is thriving during than is pandemic and is a bigger sport and gets nothing There are more cricket clubs in Scotland than rugby ones 😆😂. 
It’s £20m for rugby. 
https://www.gov.scot/news/emergency-funding-for-sport/

 

Isn't the point that rugby doesn't have the big streams of revenue football does? Rugby generated a turnover of £60m or something. That's probably less than Celtic alone.

 

When the top flight Scottish clubs ask the gov for more money, the gov can quite rightly point out the massive revenue and the inequality of how it is shared in Sottish football. Plus other leagues like Germany saw the richest clubs supporting the less well-off ones. There's been none of that solidarity and coming together in Scottish football.

Edited December 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I think football will be suspended but can't see where the time comes to complete the games? Euro2020(1) book ends this campaign which adds to the difficulty. It will be interesting to see if UK clubs are allowed to travel for European competition with this new strain running riot.

It will need to be affecting players to a much bigger extent to suspend games, had to laugh at Allardyce just back, rightly worried about his health, saying they should have a break. If he was that worried he shouldn’t have taken the job and been tempted by the money. 
Good point about the European games though, as long as their tested they should be ok. Teams might not want to come here though. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Isn't the point that rugby doesn't have the big streams of revenue football does? Rugby generated a turnover of £60m or something. That's probably less than Celtic alone.

You could say that about other minority sports, as I said cricket and golf are more popular but get way less.
I’m not convinced any sports club should be getting anymore than any other business. 

[Mr Elwood P]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It will need to be affecting players to a much bigger extent to suspend games, had to laugh at Allardyce just back, rightly worried about his health, saying they should have a break. If he was that worried he shouldn’t have taken the job and been tempted by the money. 
Good point about the European games though, as long as their tested they should be ok. Teams might not want to come here though. 

 

Hope they manage to keep the games on, it will be a cold dark winter if we don't have any football to keep us going.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Isn't the point that rugby doesn't have the big streams of revenue football does?

Yes, but I would add that most rugby clubs have extensive youth development programmes.

 

My closest semi pro side is Boroughmuir.  They run sides at 1st XV, 2nd XV, Colts, U16, U15, U14, U13 and offer mini rugby for P1 through P7.

 

The number of players involved would be far in excess of that of an equivalent football club.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes, but I would add that most rugby clubs have extensive youth development programmes.

 

My closest semi pro side is Boroughmuir.  They run sides at 1st XV, 2nd XV, Colts, U16, U15, U14, U13 and offer mini rugby for P1 through P7.

 

The number of players involved would be far in excess of that of an equivalent football club.

I think most is a huge exaggeration, the bigger ones like Boroughmuir obviously do. 
200k registered golfers, 36k rugby players. 
https://oss.scot/has-rugby-become-a-sport-for-the-viewer-rather-than-the-player/

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

Maybe it's a media thing, but are any of the leagues in Europe postponing games due to covid? Can't say I've heard of any so far.

With no crowds I can’t see matches and training being big covid spreaders. 

[Maple Leaf]

18 hours ago, indianajones said:

There is precedent. 

 

Award titles. Promote and expel. 

 

They made their bed back in May. 

 

Let's hope that they believe in precedent.

 

I can imagine them sitting in their offices in Glasgow devising a "Yeah, but ... " strategy, something that will keep Rangers and Celtic happy and to hell with the others.

[Hungry hippo]

5 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Yup, for sure. The entire Premiership will try to avoid relegation this season, and I’m pretty sure the SPFL will allow that to happen. You watch the excuses mount as we get into the new year

 

It's not in the interests of the league to not complete the season this year so really can't see it due to the new Sky deal.

 

Even if they did try to force through a rule change would still require 7 Championship clubs to vote for it and the top 4 teams would be mental to vote for that again and scrap the playoffs especially as vaccine should hopefully be getting lives back towards normality in spring.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, Hungry hippo said:

 

It's not in the interests of the league to not complete the season this year so really can't see it due to the new Sky deal.

 

Even if they did try to force through a rule change would still require 7 Championship clubs to vote for it and the top 4 teams would be mental to vote for that again and scrap the playoffs especially as vaccine should hopefully be getting lives back towards normality in spring.

As has been seen before, dangle carrots and they’ll bite

[Hungry hippo]

32 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

As has been seen before, dangle carrots and they’ll bite

 

I think insufficient teams will have the incentive to find those carrots this time though as it would cost the majority a lot of cash to not complete the season again.

 

Last season it suited almost everyone apart from the relegated teams and a few teams like Falkirk. 

[2205ian]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

As has been seen before, dangle carrots and they’ll bite

The carrot has already been dangled.....each Championship side have pocketed £500K Grant from SG.

 

Donkey & his cohorts will be furious their pleas to SG for funding has back-fired this season, big time!!

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

 Ancelloti giving it large about folk not taking Covid protocols seriously, especially football.

 

Paul Lambert complaining about lack of testing in EFL especially as he has had it, never felt worse and still isn't right with aches, headaches, breathing problems.

 

Reading doctor calling for circuit breaks as he also believes much ofvfootball isn't doing as asked.

 

For us (Hearts) there is no reason our season can't finish even with a circuit break because we should extend season.  Same for EFL outsude of Championship, if there is a break.  We lose Gordon to the Euros, but that would be all.  EFL, Championship and SPFL Premiership different story I suppose.

 

I can't see 'elite' football stopping as too much at stake in top leagues now, but they need to sort out it's covis protocol compliance.

 

 

 

 

You wouldn't even necessarily have to extend the season.  There's only one set of midweek fixtures scheduled for the Championship between now and the end of the season, so there's lots of potentially free midweeks to slot fixtures into.

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, gjcc said:

How many games need played to ensure the league stands as is?

 

That number minus one is when the league will be deemed unplayable. 

To ensure it, all games need to be played. Anything short of that, even just one game, would mean the SPFL clubs collectively would have to vote on a proposal to end the season, and any options could be proposed, including declaring the entire league season null and void! There are absolutely no rules to say what happens, so it's up to the clubs to decide! 

 

Of course, the way last season was declared complete set something of a precedent, but there's absolutely nothing that would oblige clubs to respect that precedent this time around. Just over 75% of games were played last season in the Premiership, and I'd imagine that if we got past the 75% mark this season, it would be very difficult for the league to pass a resolution that declared this season null and void, although you couldn't rule it out! 

[Rods]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

"Top flight" clubs worried about paying off a loan of a couple of million over SIX YEARS. Maybe they really shouldn't be in the top flight. Start a fan fund. Cap your transfer budget. Reduce your wage bill. FFS.

Nail on head. 

[Mr Rabbit]

4 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

To ensure it, all games need to be played. Anything short of that, even just one game, would mean the SPFL clubs collectively would have to vote on a proposal to end the season, and any options could be proposed, including declaring the entire league season null and void! There are absolutely no rules to say what happens, so it's up to the clubs to decide! 

 

Of course, the way last season was declared complete set something of a precedent, but there's absolutely nothing that would oblige clubs to respect that precedent this time around. Just over 75% of games were played last season in the Premiership, and I'd imagine that if we got past the 75% mark this season, it would be very difficult for the league to pass a resolution that declared this season null and void, although you couldn't rule it out! 

You’d like to think but I honestly don’t trust them as far as I can throw them.

 

The system is bent and allows clubs to  vote for proposals, not out of what is right and wrong but instead over what they think will financially benefit them.

 

I don’t think we’ll see the same clamour for promotion and relegation, especially from the championship teams when it’s to decide whether they get us or Ross county/ Hamilton. 

 

 

[Boris]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

With no crowds I can’t see matches and training being big covid spreaders. 

But they seem to be in England and I guess here too, St Mirren for example.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

With no crowds I can’t see matches and training being big covid spreaders. 

 

Our experience seems to back that up. As I understand it we're the only team in the Championship doing regular Premiership level testing. For all we know we've been playing teams infested with asymptomatic covid carriers every week but we seem to have only had the one case. This new strain is a worry though if it does spread more easily.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

But they seem to be in England and I guess here too, St Mirren for example.

 

Surely England aren't going to continue to let fans in with the new strain going around!

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Surely England aren't going to continue to let fans in with the new strain going around!

The moving people to either tier 3or4 has done that for them

[NANOJAMBO]

37 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Surely England aren't going to continue to let fans in with the new strain going around!

I went to my local club on Boxing Day expecting it to be 600 fans. It was 1700 in a 6700 stadium (with one end closed off).  I reckon 60/70% of fans wore masks and everyone was pissed off being told to wait to exit the stadium in turn. Today we're now in Tier 3.  No one is surprised. It's a total shambles at football grounds. 

[davemclaren]

44 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Our experience seems to back that up. As I understand it we're the only team in the Championship doing regular Premiership level testing. For all we know we've been playing teams infested with asymptomatic covid carriers every week but we seem to have only had the one case. This new strain is a worry though if it does spread more easily.

Indeed. 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

6 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I think some of these clubs just need to face up to the fact they’re not really viable due to a lack of a proper fan base. The 200 Ross county fans could still pop along and watch them ifthey went amateur and not have to travel as far to away games. Hamilton the same. Just give up, nobody would notice, who misses Clydebank?

 

TBF, County have a decent support for the size of Dingwall.

[fila]

Just call the leagues now , simple solution really 

[1971fozzy]

7 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I went to my local club on Boxing Day expecting it to be 600 fans. It was 1700 in a 6700 stadium (with one end closed off).  I reckon 60/70% of fans wore masks and everyone was pissed off being told to wait to exit the stadium in turn. Today we're now in Tier 3.  No one is surprised. It's a total shambles at football grounds. 

It looks a shambles. When Liverpool had fans in they were belting out you’ll never walk alone and there looked minimal distancing in the kop (although admittedly camera angles may of distorted how it looked). I don’t get why they close stands and don’t spread the same amount of supporters throughout all stands ? I mean they have the money down there to police it. 

[Mikey1874]

10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Surely England aren't going to continue to let fans in with the new strain going around!

 

They've stopped it in England - announced yesterday. Because of areas moving into higher tiers. 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

when can the selik fans get back though and whats Donkey doing about it ??

[SectionDJambo]

39 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

when can the selik fans get back though and whats Donkey doing about it ??

He's been very quiet about this all of a sudden. No mention of the SG probably getting their refusal correct on this occasion, and no comparisons with what is happening in England anymore.

I still can't understand the economic argument for having a few hundred fans in a stadium, up here. It must cost much more to police and have sufficient stewards, than income coming in.

It's almost as though the plan of the summer wasn't coming to fruition and panic was setting in. Maybe that medicine is just as hard for them all to swallow?

[John Findlay]

If Celtic get beat by Sevco on the second then both Doncaster and Lawell will be looking for a way to make the season null and void.

[EIEIO]

Harder for the crooked cabal to shift us this season as they have just started there new super duper Sky TV deal. Last seasons shambles was partly about ensuring this season was not delayed so the Premiership clubs could get their grubby hands on the increased TV cash. Not sure if they have even been paid last years TV funded prize money mind you.

Have the spfl publicly thanked the Scottish government for their funding yet? Might have missed it. Also at least that fud Cormack at Aberdeen has piped down now.

[DETTY29]

27 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

He's been very quiet about this all of a sudden. No mention of the SG probably getting their refusal correct on this occasion, and no comparisons with what is happening in England anymore.

I still can't understand the economic argument for having a few hundred fans in a stadium, up here. It must cost much more to police and have sufficient stewards, than income coming in.

It's almost as though the plan of the summer wasn't coming to fruition and panic was setting in. Maybe that medicine is just as hard for them all to swallow?

Luton's stewarding costs were £25k+ for 2000 fans.

 

This bleating made no sense apart from hoping the public would put pressure on the SG to give Premier clubs a sizeable chunk of free money.

 

Easily outmanouvered by the SG, although non Premier clubs with low crowds it's happy-ish days, such as those horrible ***** at say, Alloa.

Edited December 31, 2020 by DETTY29

[davemclaren]

10 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Harder for the crooked cabal to shift us this season as they have just started there new super duper Sky TV deal. Last seasons shambles was partly about ensuring this season was not delayed so the Premiership clubs could get their grubby hands on the increased TV cash. Not sure if they have even been paid last years TV funded prize money mind you.

Have the spfl publicly thanked the Scottish government for their funding yet? Might have missed it. Also at least that fud Cormack at Aberdeen has piped down now.

All clubs in the spfl get their hands on some Sky cash. I do agree that the mo was to protect the new deal at all costs. 

[DETTY29]

13 hours ago, Boris said:

But they seem to be in England and I guess here too, St Mirren for example.

St. Mirren, IIRC weren't following protocols and had large number of players having to self isolate due to not social distancing on buses, team meals, car sharing for training and so on.

 

I put a post up earlier but yesterday on 5L was full of people in football on admitting Covid protocols were slipping.

 

It could be that once the Public Health officials start their discussions with clubs, they are identifying problems, even at Manchester City.

 

Up here the SPFL investigations into Kilmarnick and St. Mirren outcomes were pretty damning.  And the clubs can't lie or cover up for fear of worse sanctioning (unless Old Rangers  )

[NANOJAMBO]

4 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

It looks a shambles. When Liverpool had fans in they were belting out you’ll never walk alone and there looked minimal distancing in the kop (although admittedly camera angles may of distorted how it looked). I don’t get why they close stands and don’t spread the same amount of supporters throughout all stands ? I mean they have the money down there to police it. 

This was non-league, I didn't see a single policeman inside/outside , there was social distancing in the main stand but absolutely none on the terraces. The stewards didn't bother checking which part of the ground your tickets was for so the main terrace was packed. The club only opened the closed area because it started pissing down, not to ensure distancing was observed. 

[CJGJ]

4 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

It looks a shambles. When Liverpool had fans in they were belting out you’ll never walk alone and there looked minimal distancing in the kop (although admittedly camera angles may of distorted how it looked). I don’t get why they close stands and don’t spread the same amount of supporters throughout all stands ? I mean they have the money down there to police it. 

Maybe if you understood the rules being applied it would help 

 

The spacing etc is laid down in conjunction with the local authorities and football......many were family members in the same 'bubble' for example.

 

They do not want nor need fans in every stand to meet the requirements..KOP holds just under 13,000 and there were some in the main stand..............all grounds who were allowed fans did not use all of the stadium

 

They limited tickets to those in the city region and urged fans to test in the 24/48 hours prior to going to matches

 

Only 1500 were available to the public and they were not all in the KOP....Others were of course corporate for want of a better phrase and some community distribution

[EIEIO]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

All clubs in the spfl get their hands on some Sky cash. I do agree that the mo was to protect the new deal at all costs. 

They do but lions share goes to premiership clubs. Possibly why Scottish Government is issuing grants to non premiership  clubs.

[Boris]

2 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

St. Mirren, IIRC weren't following protocols and had large number of players having to self isolate due to not social distancing on buses, team meals, car sharing for training and so on.

 

I put a post up earlier but yesterday on 5L was full of people in football on admitting Covid protocols were slipping.

 

It could be that once the Public Health officials start their discussions with clubs, they are identifying problems, even at Manchester City.

 

Up here the SPFL investigations into Kilmarnick and St. Mirren outcomes were pretty damning.  And the clubs can't lie or cover up for fear of worse sanctioning (unless Old Rangers  )

Thanks, you have explained the point I was trying to make far better than I did.

 

If the clubs aren't following the protocols then they should be hammered, imo.

[Tommy Brown]

6 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Maybe if you understood the rules being applied it would help 

 

The spacing etc is laid down in conjunction with the local authorities and football......many were family members in the same 'bubble' for example.

 

They do not want nor need fans in every stand to meet the requirements..KOP holds just under 13,000 and there were some in the main stand..............all grounds who were allowed fans did not use all of the stadium

 

They limited tickets to those in the city region and urged fans to test in the 24/48 hours prior to going to matches

 

Only 1500 were available to the public and they were not all in the KOP....Others were of course corporate for want of a better phrase and some community distribution

 

Do you know how people were selected?

[1971fozzy]

Rumour going about that Kyle Walker had a party with other EPL players and a good few tested positive for covid. 
anyone else heard this ? 
If true it’s horrendous from him

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 hours ago, davemclaren said:

All clubs in the spfl get their hands on some Sky cash. I do agree that the mo was to protect the new deal at all costs. 

 

Sky run our game. We couldn't finish the league because it had to start on Aug 1st. It had to start then because Sky wanted it to start then because they wanted some football to broadcast before their real priority, the EPL, started up again in mid-Sept. The new deal depended on that start date as we were told. There was no other reason for it having to start then. After that, Sky hasn't bothered with us. They are terrible at promoting Scottish football.

 

If it wasn't for that need to start Aug 1st or whenever it was, we could have finished the league and started the new season at the same time as the EPL. Although increasingly I'm thinking getting demoted might work out quite well for us all things considered.

Edited January 1, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Tommy Brown]

8 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Rumour going about that Kyle Walker had a party with other EPL players and a good few tested positive for covid. 
anyone else heard this ? 
If true it’s horrendous from him

Probably bullshit. Easy rumour to start. 

 

Would be hilarious if true though.

[davemclaren]

43 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Sky run our game. We couldn't finish the league because it had to start on Aug 1st. It had to start then because Sky wanted it to start then because they wanted some football to broadcast before their real priority, the EPL, started up again in mid-Sept. The new deal depended on that start date as we were told. There was no other reason for it having to start then. After that, Sky hasn't bothered with us. They are terrible at promoting Scottish football.

 

If it wasn't for that need to start Aug 1st or whenever it was, we could have finished the league and started the new season at the same time as the EPL. Although increasingly I'm thinking getting demoted might work out quite well for us all things considered.

All true I’m afraid.