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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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36 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

The only thing that worries me about teams going bust in the Championship is that they might suspend the league and call no promotion, they'd love that, apart from that it's sweet as **** to see these clubs toiling! 

That is certainly my worry. There will,however also be teams in the Premiership with the same problems I have no doubt. Wonder what they would do if a couple went burst. Can you imagine them suspending the league with The  Rangers way out in front. Armageddon would surely follow.

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I heard this a couple of weeks ago,there is also at least one Premier league club in similar financial state.Strange it finds the newspapers in the week leading up to the final.

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4 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Daily Record 

 

Funding has been announced but clubs are struggling to meet payroll for this month.

 

The Scottish Government has been warned it has just one week left to save the Championship from a cash crisis that could see clubs go to the wall for Christmas.

A special Record Sport investigation has revealed several second tier outfits - including crisis club Morton - are now in such serious financial distress they do not have enough money in the bank to cover December’s payroll.

 

Those wages are due to to paid out before the end of the month there is still no sign of the £10million worth of emergency bailout cash which was pledged to the lower leagues last week as part of a £55m coronavirus rescue package for spectator sport.

One Championship club told us: “The situation is now critical. There are three or four clubs we know of who are now desperately scrambling around trying to find enough money from somewhere or come up with other solutions to cover the December wages.

“Even if they find a way to get through until the end of this month then, without any sign if the grants we have promised, it’s only delaying the inevitable. We need urgent answers. How much money are we getting? When? And how do we go about accessing it?

“It’s incredible that, one week on from the Government’s big announcement, we still don’t have any of these answers. If they don’t come soon then it will be too late and the Championship as a whole will be facing a financial disaster.”

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-government-warned-critical-championship-23178871#r3z-addoor

 

 

 

I read the above and note that SG funds go to the SFA/SPFL for distribution but distribution is all tied-up In red tape and form filling.  Didn't I read that the same thing happened with the gifting from JA.  And then there is the block on distributing the TV money.  The SFA/SPL are not helping themselves and demonstrating their incompetence again.

 

 

Edited by Alec Eiffel
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And he’s not praying!
1 hour ago, neilnunb said:

Morton struggling to fund their December payroll?  Our PPV boycott is working boys :pleasing:


I did wonder why Mackinnon appeared so desperate in his replying to us.

 

Ach well. 

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12 minutes ago, And he’s not praying! said:


I did wonder why Mackinnon appeared so desperate in his replying to us.

 

Ach well. 

If they go out the league and their results are expunged Dunfermline will only be one point behind us. 

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And he’s not praying!
28 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

If they go out the league and their results are expunged Dunfermline will only be one point behind us. 


Meh.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
55 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

If they go out the league and their results are expunged Dunfermline will only be one point behind us. 

Bothered.

 

Hopefully Dunfermline follow suit.

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1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

If they go out the league and their results are expunged Dunfermline will only be one point behind us. 

 

Fine with me - Raith Rovers got promoted by being one point ahead of 2nd place.

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33 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Where's that Morton idiot from the other week? 

 

He's not worrying at all - Morton are going to be fan-owned, you see. 🎺

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2 hours ago, heartmussel said:

I heard this a couple of weeks ago,there is also at least one Premier league club in similar financial state.Strange it finds the newspapers in the week leading up to the final.

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Aren't two separate issues being conflated here?

 

Firstly, I totally understand and share the feeling of resentment towards the majority of other clubs for their treatment of ourselves, Partick Thistle and Stranraer. Surely though its the financial effects of the pandemic that are threatening clubs such as Morton this season, not which division Hearts, Partick & Stranraer were unfairly placed in? Put another way, with little or no income, Morton (and others) would be struggling regardless of whether we were in the Premiership or the Championship.

 

Secondly, it's a bit myopic to wish for the demise of the opposition if their demise results in Hearts having no competitors to play against. If half the clubs (or should that be operating companies?) from each of the Premiership and Championship folded a third of the way through the season, do you seriously think our football authorities, with their track record, would successfully, smoothly and promptly amalgamate the remaining solvent clubs into one top division?

 

Finally, it ought to be remembered that while we are undoubtedly better placed than most thanks to our owner, benefactors, FOH etc, we are far from immune to the financial ramifications of the pandemic ourselves, especially since our overheads and loans etc are considerably higher than the likes of Morton, and are commensurate with a club of our size.  

 

  

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After reading the above article, my own conclusion is that I and the Daily Record have different meanings for in depth investigation.

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14 minutes ago, Rods said:

You have to hope the screaming for League Reconstruction starts soon. Then we can say now is not the time and it failed 3 times already.

 

I'm of the opinion that Hearts should vote to reject any form of league reconstruction unless it directly benefits us.

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8 minutes ago, newbie said:

Aren't two separate issues being conflated here?

 

Firstly, I totally understand and share the feeling of resentment towards the majority of other clubs for their treatment of ourselves, Partick Thistle and Stranraer. Surely though its the financial effects of the pandemic that are threatening clubs such as Morton this season, not which division Hearts, Partick & Stranraer were unfairly placed in? Put another way, with little or no income, Morton (and others) would be struggling regardless of whether we were in the Premiership or the Championship.

 

Secondly, it's a bit myopic to wish for the demise of the opposition if their demise results in Hearts having no competitors to play against. If half the clubs (or should that be operating companies?) from each of the Premiership and Championship folded a third of the way through the season, do you seriously think our football authorities, with their track record, would successfully, smoothly and promptly amalgamate the remaining solvent clubs into one top division?

 

Finally, it ought to be remembered that while we are undoubtedly better placed than most thanks to our owner, benefactors, FOH etc, we are far from immune to the financial ramifications of the pandemic ourselves, especially since our overheads and loans etc are considerably higher than the likes of Morton, and are commensurate with a club of our size.  

 

  

Isn't the process to appoint administrators and reduce the wage bill? Let it take its natural course.

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3 minutes ago, Barack said:

That's a well thought out, rational and erudite argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They can still **** off and die.

 

🤣👍

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7 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Morton must be one of the much loved clubs Doncaster was slavering about 

Any club that's sucks the Doncaster/Lawell boaby is a much loved club until they ask those two charlatans for financial help.

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4 hours ago, Hesh said:

I wonder how this will work in Edinburgh isnt in a level that allows spectators 

20 Glasgow warriors players self isolating at the moment too after a match in Exeter, I think. Not the best time for such plans.

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2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

If they go out the league and their results are expunged Dunfermline will only be one point behind us. 

So long as they limp on for a few weeks they play Morton away on friday 15th January.

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On 10/12/2020 at 15:11, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

I genuinely thought that we only needed one more top flight club to vote against the motion as Hearts and Rangers did, is that not the case? I could be wrong... 

 

 

 

 Not been back on this thread for a week, so someone else might have replied to this, but they needed 75% from the Premiership to vote in favour, so only nine clubs, which they got before the mutton molesters voted!

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57 minutes ago, newbie said:

Aren't two separate issues being conflated here?

 

Firstly, I totally understand and share the feeling of resentment towards the majority of other clubs for their treatment of ourselves, Partick Thistle and Stranraer. Surely though its the financial effects of the pandemic that are threatening clubs such as Morton this season, not which division Hearts, Partick & Stranraer were unfairly placed in? Put another way, with little or no income, Morton (and others) would be struggling regardless of whether we were in the Premiership or the Championship.

 

Secondly, it's a bit myopic to wish for the demise of the opposition if their demise results in Hearts having no competitors to play against. If half the clubs (or should that be operating companies?) from each of the Premiership and Championship folded a third of the way through the season, do you seriously think our football authorities, with their track record, would successfully, smoothly and promptly amalgamate the remaining solvent clubs into one top division?

 

Finally, it ought to be remembered that while we are undoubtedly better placed than most thanks to our owner, benefactors, FOH etc, we are far from immune to the financial ramifications of the pandemic ourselves, especially since our overheads and loans etc are considerably higher than the likes of Morton, and are commensurate with a club of our size.  

 

  

 

You clearly don't.

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7 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

 Not been back on this thread for a week, so someone else might have replied to this, but they needed 75% from the Premiership to vote in favour, so only nine clubs, which they got before the mutton molesters voted!

And Aberdeen were told their vote didn't matter as they had enough numbers to push through the curtail. 

Dundee held all the cards after Aberdeen voted AGAINST the curtail of the season. (mccormac stated this on sportsound Saturday after the vote) 

We knew about the Dundee fisaco because the Inverness SD read out the WhatsApp messages live on the same program. 

 

I hope someone had the audio or the program. Its an open mouth wow moment. Tom English head exploded after listening to it. 

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, newbie said:

Aren't two separate issues being conflated here?

 

Firstly, I totally understand and share the feeling of resentment towards the majority of other clubs for their treatment of ourselves, Partick Thistle and Stranraer. Surely though its the financial effects of the pandemic that are threatening clubs such as Morton this season, not which division Hearts, Partick & Stranraer were unfairly placed in? Put another way, with little or no income, Morton (and others) would be struggling regardless of whether we were in the Premiership or the Championship.

 

Secondly, it's a bit myopic to wish for the demise of the opposition if their demise results in Hearts having no competitors to play against. If half the clubs (or should that be operating companies?) from each of the Premiership and Championship folded a third of the way through the season, do you seriously think our football authorities, with their track record, would successfully, smoothly and promptly amalgamate the remaining solvent clubs into one top division?

 

Finally, it ought to be remembered that while we are undoubtedly better placed than most thanks to our owner, benefactors, FOH etc, we are far from immune to the financial ramifications of the pandemic ourselves, especially since our overheads and loans etc are considerably higher than the likes of Morton, and are commensurate with a club of our size.  

 

  

 

 

Aye and no. 

 

With a little vision and leadership part time teams could have mothballed if they felt that was best, remember championship teams voted for a shorter season already to help out as they thought fans would be back in by October. 

Now, anyone with sense could predict that there were going to be no large crowds by August. 

 

Outwith us, These clubs voted to demote Partick with a game in hand to the abyss and really **** over the Highland teams.

The bus fare and meal remark by iirc s albion was ridiculous. 

 

There was an easy way to mitigate the damage to all clubs, they chose, and that is important part - to ignore that option at every turn as they were thinking only of themselves. 

They even stopped us training. 

 

In short, I'll stop short of wanting clubs to go bust, but if they do, nae luck. 

You make your bed, you lie in it 

 

Lastly, imo Scottish football needs less clubs, larger leagues and a more streamline structure for regions and promotion, so if this is the catalyst even for some change then it's a good thing imo. 

 

 

Edited by Smith's right boot
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1 hour ago, Barack said:

That's a well thought out, rational and erudite argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They can still **** off and die.

I wholeheartedly endorse this post!

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47 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

And Aberdeen were told their vote didn't matter as they had enough numbers to push through the curtail. 

Dundee held all the cards after Aberdeen voted AGAINST the curtail of the season. (mccormac stated this on sportsound Saturday after the vote) 

We knew about the Dundee fisaco because the Inverness SD read out the WhatsApp messages live on the same program. 

 

I hope someone had the audio or the program. Its an open mouth wow moment. Tom English head exploded after listening to it. 

Aberdeen voted for. They hadn't voted at all but had been leaning towards no, until ND informed them that nine other Premiership clubs had already voted yes. They then decided to go along with the majority. The only thing that changed was the overall percentage that Doncaster could subsequently claim backed it. He'd have had about 2.4% less to brag about if they'd still voted no.

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1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Aye and no. 

 

With a little vision and leadership part time teams could have mothballed if they felt that was best, remember championship teams voted for a shorter season already to help out as they thought fans would be back in by October. 

Now, anyone with sense could predict that there were going to be no large crowds by August. 

 

Outwith us, These clubs voted to demote Partick with a game in hand to the abyss and really **** over the Highland teams.

The bus fare and meal remark by iirc s albion was ridiculous. 

 

There was an easy way to mitigate the damage to all clubs, they chose, and that is important part - to ignore that option at every turn as they were thinking only of themselves. 

They even stopped us training. 

 

In short, I'll stop short of wanting clubs to go bust, but if they do, nae luck. 

You make your bed, you lie in it 

 

Lastly, imo Scottish football needs less clubs, larger leagues and a more streamline structure for regions and promotion, so if this is the catalyst even for some change then it's a good thing imo. 

 

 

Clubs and the SFA,SPFL are fire fighting just now but they should already looking towards a 'revolution' by the time the Sky rights renegotions start.

 

By 2025, Scottish league football really needs to look a lot different and not just a few clubs not surviving Covid and another 2 or 3 coming through pyramid.

 

-Full professional max 2 league structure

- Regionalisation

- Promotion optional into full league structure.

- No artificial grass in top league, if not at all in full league structure.

 

As a minimum.

 

Edited by DETTY29
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1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

You clearly don't.

 

I retract everything in light of your detailed and compelling argument. You might want to brush up on your wonky psychic powers though. 

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9 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Daily Record 

 

Funding has been announced but clubs are struggling to meet payroll for this month.

 

The Scottish Government has been warned it has just one week left to save the Championship from a cash crisis that could see clubs go to the wall for Christmas.

A special Record Sport investigation has revealed several second tier outfits - including crisis club Morton - are now in such serious financial distress they do not have enough money in the bank to cover December’s payroll.

 

Those wages are due to to paid out before the end of the month there is still no sign of the £10million worth of emergency bailout cash which was pledged to the lower leagues last week as part of a £55m coronavirus rescue package for spectator sport.

One Championship club told us: “The situation is now critical. There are three or four clubs we know of who are now desperately scrambling around trying to find enough money from somewhere or come up with other solutions to cover the December wages.

“Even if they find a way to get through until the end of this month then, without any sign if the grants we have promised, it’s only delaying the inevitable. We need urgent answers. How much money are we getting? When? And how do we go about accessing it?

“It’s incredible that, one week on from the Government’s big announcement, we still don’t have any of these answers. If they don’t come soon then it will be too late and the Championship as a whole will be facing a financial disaster.”

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-government-warned-critical-championship-23178871#r3z-addoor

 

 

Tom English said on Sportsound months ago numerous Championship clubs had told him they wouldn't see season out, but didn't want to be the first to say so.

 

There should have been full and open honesty from these clubs at the outset.

 

 

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Just now, DETTY29 said:

Tom English said on Sportsound months ago numerous Championship clubs had told him they wouldn't see season out, but didn't want to be the first to say so.

 

There should have been full and open honesty from these clubs at the outset.

 

No doubt.

Would reconstruction have made any difference though? In most cases, no.

 

As you say honesty, teams should have said they would need to mothball for a complete season, they were scared to admit it.

Plus this has went on longer than expected.

 

I understand the resentment and felt that way too at first. But I will admit, I've scabbed and paid Alloa, Morton & East Fife.

I want to watch Hearts, end of.

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9 minutes ago, newbie said:

 

I retract everything in light of your detailed and compelling argument. You might want to brush up on your wonky psychic powers though. 

 

You might want to read back over how these clubs were happy to screw us over in 2020.

 

There is no Scottish football community and i refuse to identify with or have sympathy for the fans of any other club. We will always find someone to play, the weaker the better.

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The clubs voted to have Hearts in the league due to money. They voted Partick out due to money. They had an opportunity to vote for sporting integrity they never. Now Karma is catching up them up. I hope a few go bust. 

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Another club source told us: “There are clubs in the Championship who have ambitions to get into the Premiership and are paying players and staff accordingly. They are the ones in need of urgent assistance.

 

Oh well.  We're constantly told we live outwith our means and even had teams basically calling us cheats for signing the likes of Boyce.  Even though we can afford it.  Scottish football, like most football, is filled with clubs living totally outwith their means.  And if you do so PLUS refuse to do anything to assist the wider game, well, tough titties when the reaper comes.

 

Bye bye.

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SectionDJambo
2 hours ago, newbie said:

Aren't two separate issues being conflated here?

 

Firstly, I totally understand and share the feeling of resentment towards the majority of other clubs for their treatment of ourselves, Partick Thistle and Stranraer. Surely though its the financial effects of the pandemic that are threatening clubs such as Morton this season, not which division Hearts, Partick & Stranraer were unfairly placed in? Put another way, with little or no income, Morton (and others) would be struggling regardless of whether we were in the Premiership or the Championship.

 

Secondly, it's a bit myopic to wish for the demise of the opposition if their demise results in Hearts having no competitors to play against. If half the clubs (or should that be operating companies?) from each of the Premiership and Championship folded a third of the way through the season, do you seriously think our football authorities, with their track record, would successfully, smoothly and promptly amalgamate the remaining solvent clubs into one top division?

 

Finally, it ought to be remembered that while we are undoubtedly better placed than most thanks to our owner, benefactors, FOH etc, we are far from immune to the financial ramifications of the pandemic ourselves, especially since our overheads and loans etc are considerably higher than the likes of Morton, and are commensurate with a club of our size.  

 

  

On your first point. The clubs, some of whom are now in financial jeopardy, cared not a jot about the financial implications for the 3 clubs, at a time when they all optimistically anticipated spectators being in grounds, as normal, by October. They were made very well aware of the inevitable redundancies of good people at those clubs, that would result from their actions in following through with the demotions. The demotions were executed, in part, to take an unfair sporting advantage or benefit from away fans of Hearts and Partick Thistle. It was self interest at it's worst.

Your second point would carry some weight, if it were not for the fact that we cannot trust the SPFL clubs to honour this season's results anyway. Their skullduggery of the summer has shown that they will manipulate any situation to suit their cabal of protectionism. They should have done the honourable thing for all clubs during the summer but decided to take advantage of a pandemic for their common agendas. We have to hope that Hearts stay top of the Championship to minimise their corrupt wriggle room.

On your third point. Hearts fans will support our club financially to get us through. This, along with having a leader in Ann Budge, for all her other errors of judgement in team decisions, called the long term damage that Covid 19 would do to Scottish football correctly. Whilst others, foolishly, tried to carry on as if all was going to be normal, she took difficult decisions, some of which drew hysterical critisism from the media and rival clubs. Some of the press coverage regarding Hearts, during the summer, was absolutely disgraceful, aided by numerous officials from SPFL clubs. It was spite and mob rule on a grand scale, kicking us when we were down.

So, please, forgive most of us for not giving a hoot about any of the clubs, who ganged up on us, falling into hard times. They didn't care about us, and many showed great enjoyment in what was happening to us in their name.

Maybe more scrutiny should be given as to how the man who steered the SPFL clubs to the abyss they are now looking into, is still earning his full £400+k. No word of him suffering any financial hardship from his stewardship of the SPFL in the midst of this financial meltdown.

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ToadKiller Dog

Regarding the heavy approach to the goverment for money now. 

Wheres the SPFL money that was delayed due to accounts ? Is that paid out as yet have the clubs already accounted for it and still close to armagedon?

Why scream at the goverment over give us the money now if that money has yet not been sorted by the SPFL?

 

Edited by ToadKiller Dog
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2 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

On your first point. The clubs, some of whom are now in financial jeopardy, cared not a jot about the financial implications for the 3 clubs, at a time when they all optimistically anticipated spectators being in grounds, as normal, by October. They were made very well aware of the inevitable redundancies of good people at those clubs, that would result from their actions in following through with the demotions. The demotions were executed, in part, to take an unfair sporting advantage or benefit from away fans of Hearts and Partick Thistle. It was self interest at it's worst.

Your second point would carry some weight, if it were not for the fact that we cannot trust the SPFL clubs to honour this season's results anyway. Their skullduggery of the summer has shown that they will manipulate any situation to suit their cabal of protectionism. They should have done the honourable thing for all clubs during the summer but decided to take advantage of a pandemic for their common agendas. We have to hope that Hearts stay top of the Championship to minimise their corrupt wriggle room.

On your third point. Hearts fans will support our club financially to get us through. This, along with having a leader in Ann Budge, for all her other errors of judgement in team decisions, called the long term damage that Covid 19 would do to Scottish football correctly. Whilst others, foolishly, tried to carry on as if all was going to be normal, she took difficult decisions, some of which drew hysterical critisism from the media and rival clubs. Some of the press coverage regarding Hearts, during the summer, was absolutely disgraceful, aided by numerous officials from SPFL clubs. It was spite and mob rule on a grand scale, kicking us when we were down.

So, please, forgive most of us for not giving a hoot about any of the clubs, who ganged up on us, falling into hard times. They didn't care about us, and many showed great enjoyment in what was happening to us in their name.

Maybe more scrutiny should be given as to how the man who steered the SPFL clubs to the abyss they are now looking into, is still earning his full £400+k. No word of him suffering any financial hardship from his stewardship of the SPFL in the midst of this financial meltdown.

Spot on. Worth noting the prize money that was the cash carrot in exchange for votes by the spfl clubs in march has still not been paid. These clubs reportedly needed the cash to survive at the end of last season why has it not been paid? Mr Doncaster and co are very quiet on the subject.

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6 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

It’s a sure sign of the failures of Doncaster, the SPFL board, the JRG and the leadership from most of the 42 clubs, that we, as football fans, have gone from appreciating the support of some clubs during our administration period, and contributing ourselves to clubs who were in difficulties before us, to actually anticipating the financial demise of clubs with some enthusiasm.

The self interest and sheer spite that prevailed to unfairly punish 3 clubs, is coming back to bite hard.

I would imagine that most of the “take your medicine”, “now is not the right time for reconstruction” and “relegation is the food and drink of football”  crew are having a reality check and wish they could revisit the summer. It did not have to happen like this. Reconstruction, even temporary, and mothballing some clubs, could have had great benefits in the fight to keep clubs in existence. The lack of desire for the collective good was staggering.

A great post and I feel a lot of sympathy for the fans and volunteers at the smaller clubs who keep them going in normal times and I also get that they are part of their communities history and identity. However it was their boardrooms that caused the situation by putting the boot in and are now reaping what they showed.

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I'm terribly worried that it's going to be a long, harsh winter for most of the clubs who voted to expel us.  Some may not survive.

 

What a shame.

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highlandjambo3
21 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

On your first point. The clubs, some of whom are now in financial jeopardy, cared not a jot about the financial implications for the 3 clubs, at a time when they all optimistically anticipated spectators being in grounds, as normal, by October. They were made very well aware of the inevitable redundancies of good people at those clubs, that would result from their actions in following through with the demotions. The demotions were executed, in part, to take an unfair sporting advantage or benefit from away fans of Hearts and Partick Thistle. It was self interest at it's worst.

Your second point would carry some weight, if it were not for the fact that we cannot trust the SPFL clubs to honour this season's results anyway. Their skullduggery of the summer has shown that they will manipulate any situation to suit their cabal of protectionism. They should have done the honourable thing for all clubs during the summer but decided to take advantage of a pandemic for their common agendas. We have to hope that Hearts stay top of the Championship to minimise their corrupt wriggle room.

On your third point. Hearts fans will support our club financially to get us through. This, along with having a leader in Ann Budge, for all her other errors of judgement in team decisions, called the long term damage that Covid 19 would do to Scottish football correctly. Whilst others, foolishly, tried to carry on as if all was going to be normal, she took difficult decisions, some of which drew hysterical critisism from the media and rival clubs. Some of the press coverage regarding Hearts, during the summer, was absolutely disgraceful, aided by numerous officials from SPFL clubs. It was spite and mob rule on a grand scale, kicking us when we were down.

So, please, forgive most of us for not giving a hoot about any of the clubs, who ganged up on us, falling into hard times. They didn't care about us, and many showed great enjoyment in what was happening to us in their name.

Maybe more scrutiny should be given as to how the man who steered the SPFL clubs to the abyss they are now looking into, is still earning his full £400+k. No word of him suffering any financial hardship from his stewardship of the SPFL in the midst of this financial meltdown.

Well said........

my round, what are you having?

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  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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