SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[The Old Tolbooth]

1 hour ago, FarmerTweedy said:

How would it have failed? 

 

I genuinely thought that we only needed one more top flight club to vote against the motion as Hearts and Rangers did, is that not the case? I could be wrong... 

 

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

 

I hate this approach and I've seen a number of people in Scottish football use it. It's emotional blackmail. If he was really concerned about that he'd be giving out free PPV passes for every Aberdeen game.

 

There are all sorts of interests and hobbies people love that they've been prevented from doing. Kids not being able to play with their mates for months, multiple recreational pursuits not allowed, film and theatre fans not being able to go to the cinema or theatre, music fans not being able to go to gigs, people not being able to see work mates, before we even get to people not being able to see goodbye to relatives and friends who have died.... if someone can't cope without being able to see their football team in person for one season, they've got more serious problems.

 

Yip, I can see it from that side as well when you put it like that, however my point still stands that you're safer at outdoor events than you are at indoor events, for very obvious reasons, I guess it depends what spin someone puts around the justification. 

[Rogue Daddy]

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

 

I hate this approach and I've seen a number of people in Scottish football use it. It's emotional blackmail. If he was really concerned about that he'd be giving out free PPV passes for every Aberdeen game.

 

There are all sorts of interests and hobbies people love that they've been prevented from doing. Kids not being able to play with their mates for months, multiple recreational pursuits not allowed, film and theatre fans not being able to go to the cinema or theatre, music fans not being able to go to gigs, people not being able to see work mates, before we even get to people not being able to see goodbye to relatives and friends who have died.... if someone can't cope without being able to see their football team in person for one season, they've got more serious problems.

 

Good post mate! Percentage of football ST holders compared to population is almost insignificant. Why should football be 'entitled' to 'special' treatment?

 

We all want to get back to see our team asap... but the SPFL, and Dungcaster and Cormack in particular, are just plain embarrassing, and doing the cause absolutely no good whatsoever.

[sandylejambo]

if this hand out is based on ticket sales, we'll get much more than the Stirling Albions and Dunfermline's of this world.

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

40 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Don’t think I would be counting the cash just yet...the £10m pot extends beyond the league system and also covers women's football. Possible that perhaps the SFA themselves might be able to grab a slice as it is primarily to help with losses on ticket sales.

 

Also no info (that I can find) over who approves the grants and at what level. Assume the Scot Gov will not just hand over a load of cash for the SFA or even the SPFL to distribute as they wish? Will clubs have to apply for their loan or grant from the Scot Gov direct, etc?

 

I suspect much of this can be filed under ‘no such thing as a free lunch’.

I think you have made some interesting points,  is it going through the SFA and or the SPFL?  the top flight having to apply for a loan, whereas we have 1/3 of the football money spread across all aspects of the game,  if fairness the JA money was better, as he gave womens football their own freebie and every club got the same.  Lets see whom will be greadiest or despertate.  Will there be any gratutude or complaints, ITS NOT ENOUGH!!!!

[Italian Lambretta]

3 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

if this hand out is based on ticket sales, we'll get much more than the Stirling Albions and Dunfermline's of this world.

 

I think we should get 90% of it. The wee pishy clubs can go a do one

[Footballfirst]

Dave Cormack can at least seek a loan from the Scottish Government kitty, but he better be quick because I'm sure that TRFC and Celtic will be looking to take the biggest share.

 

I hope that neither the SFA nor the SPFL will be managing the award of grants to lower league clubs (including those in the pyramid one would hope) because we know the disproportionate influence held by the likes of Brechin.

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Dave Cormack can at least seek a loan from the Scottish Government kitty, but he better be quick because I'm sure that TRFC and Celtic will be looking to take the biggest share.

 

I hope that neither the SFA nor the SPFL will be managing the award of grants to lower league clubs (including those in the pyramid one would hope) because we know the disproportionate influence held by the likes of Brechin.

The government I believe should dish it out, hopefully fairly.

[Weebroon98]

Would hope that none of the money is used for player recruitment in the January transfer window

[CJGJ]

Wow...support from the government at this time

 

I wonder what brought that on ?

[Last Laff]

Never thought I would ever say this but Cheffy Jambo nails it. 

[Last Laff]

17 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Wow...support from the government at this time

 

I wonder what brought that on ?

Your posts mate. 

[trotter]

1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

You generally cannot remove a risk, you can reduce it though.......... as a guideline to risk assessment  you look at the risk “Likelihood” times “Severity” with each graded 1-5, 1 being the lowest and 5 being the highest, so the overal score will ranging from 1 (extremely safe but, the risk is still there) to 25 (extremely high risk) example:

 

engine falling off a plane.... likelyhood 1 severity 5, so 1 X 5 = 5....low risk but still possible (this is why we fly), You’ve probably heard the term “exceptibal risk” which is exactly what this is.

 

To take this further, specifically for fans at a football match, your risk assessment could mention toilet entry & exit one way system to reduce the risk of close contact but it cannot score “zero” because you just know someone will ignore the signs (deliberately or accidentally) so as mentioned, you can only reduce this risk to score 1.

Spot on. Just to be a smart-arse, the generally accepted definition in HSE Land is now 'tolerable risk' rather than 'acceptable risk' as it lends itself easier to explanation. For example, you will 'tolerate' the small risk of an engine falling off a place, because you want the 'benefit' that comes from being on the plane in the first place (presumably going on holiday).

Edited December 10, 2020 by trotter

[davieholt]

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’m no fan of the SNP or Sturgeon.. but it isn’t really that hard to explain, all of those comparisons you have made would be closed were it in any way feasible to do so. They aren’t open Becuase it’s “safe”, the aren’t “covid secure” that’s for sure.. 

 

I don’t think it has ever been about supporters in the stadium at games.  It’s more to do with how spectators travel to games and what they do on the way, I’d hazard a small % of our support live within walking distance or tynecastle and a large % done live in Edinburgh... this means increased traffic on public transport, visiting cafes, restaurants, pubs and bars, picking it up and transporting it back to areas where the issue is less.. a perfect vehicle for spreading the problem out of the cities and into wider communities 

 

i miss going massively. But I can do without it this season. I don’t think the SNP are wrong on this issue.

 

Not to mention the funnelling of supporters at the entrances and exits and the crowds in the concourse areas before the match and at HT. Nicola is correct on this occasion   

[CJGJ]

4 minutes ago, davieholt said:

 

Not to mention the funnelling of supporters at the entrances and exits and the crowds in the concourse areas before the match and at HT. Nicola is correct on this occasion   

How do they manage in England ?...amazing they can do what some on here think we can not

[Kiwidoug]

I'd rather have a small gift than a big loan any day of the week.  As previous poster says, this is a great season to be in the championship.  We have to win it of course and we have two good goes at the SC.

 

We'll be back with a vengeance and with no big loan to pay back.

 

 

[jimbojambo]

4 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I'd rather have a small gift than a big loan any day of the week.  As previous poster says, this is a great season to be in the championship.  We have to win it of course and we have two good goes at the SC.

 

We'll be back with a vengeance and with no big loan to pay back.

 

 

Plus remember with starting the season later we got more in furlough payments along with the increased FOH pledges so maybewe should maybe be sending a thank you card to Doncaster 😀

[Hagar the Horrible]

on BBC radio just now on the sports report, football complaining that they want more and complaining about what Rugby is getting,  Hamilton and St Mirren complaining that its just not fair  Chris mcGlock-yin

[Hashimoto]

Why can they do it in England (allow supporters into grounds), and not in Scotland?

Simple answer - Celtic support

The last two Sunday's mob gathering, siege mentality has completely vindicated the Scottish Governments decision to limit attendances to certain areas only. Glasgow / Edinburgh firmly off the map at this time. and quite rightly so!

Edited December 10, 2020 by Hashimoto

[David Black]

2 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Do we really want to go back to that? 🤣🤣🤣

They were the days.

[Zico]

8 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

on BBC radio just now on the sports report, football complaining that they want more and complaining about what Rugby is getting,  Hamilton and St Mirren complaining that its just not fair  Chris mcGlock-yin

As long as they two are pissed off, I’m happy. 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

 

I hate this approach and I've seen a number of people in Scottish football use it. It's emotional blackmail. If he was really concerned about that he'd be giving out free PPV passes for every Aberdeen game.

 

There are all sorts of interests and hobbies people love that they've been prevented from doing. Kids not being able to play with their mates for months, multiple recreational pursuits not allowed, film and theatre fans not being able to go to the cinema or theatre, music fans not being able to go to gigs, people not being able to see work mates, before we even get to people not being able to see goodbye to relatives and friends who have died.... if someone can't cope without being able to see their football team in person for one season, they've got more serious problems.

He's only standing up for his industry I suppose.

 

Just like that Hibs twat Dewar today.

 

Practically said Sturgeon should have told everyone to book an overseas flight for the summer and if cancelled, the SG pay for it.

 

Apols, Shed arguement. 

[Mikey1874]

36 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

How do they manage in England ?...amazing they can do what some on here think we can not

 

More deaths. 

 

Overall from more opening and will be from the football. 

 

[CJGJ]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

More deaths. 

 

Overall from more opening and will be from the football. 

 

Are we allowed to ask where is your proof ?

 

Reality is you are safer at the match following all the protocols than going to an shopping centre like the Gyle but that does not suit your narrative on this topic

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Are we allowed to ask where is your proof ?

 

Reality is you are safer at the match following all the protocols than going to an shopping centre like the Gyle but that does not suit your narrative on this topic

 

Your narrative is that life should just be normal. 

 

That would mean more deaths. 

 

Proof is tricky. I don't have access to all the information. But you could look at things like Help to Eat which are generally accepted to have led to more deaths. 

 

It's a choice. I think generally now Governments are making the right choices. 

[EIEIO]

14 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

He's only standing up for his industry I suppose.

 

Just like that Hibs twat Dewar today.

 

Practically said Sturgeon should have told everyone to book an overseas flight for the summer and if cancelled, the SG pay for it.

 

Apols, Shed arguement. 

Minor point is Dewar not a jambo. His former head of security was a former vermin casual though.

[DETTY29]

2 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Minor point is Dewar not a jambo. His former head of security was a former vermin casual though.

Aaagh,

 

Not minor then.

 

Thought he got caught on tour with them.

Edited December 10, 2020 by DETTY29

[EIEIO]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

Aaagh,

 

Not minor then.

 

Thought he got caught on tour with them.

Aye looked a bit sheepish in a  team photo of them in Bendiorm, if memory serves.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

 

Good post mate! Percentage of football ST holders compared to population is almost insignificant. Why should football be 'entitled' to 'special' treatment?

 

We all want to get back to see our team asap... but the SPFL, and Dungcaster and Cormack in particular, are just plain embarrassing, and doing the cause absolutely no good whatsoever.

 

It's also noticeable no-one - Cormack included - cared about the additional stress put on fans and employees of the three clubs forced to take the financial hit for everyone else.

[EIEIO]

42 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

on BBC radio just now on the sports report, football complaining that they want more and complaining about what Rugby is getting,  Hamilton and St Mirren complaining that its just not fair  Chris mcGlock-yin

Maybe St Midden and Killie can get a loan from Scottish taxpayer to pay their inevitable fine from the SFA for appealing their covid 3 -0  defeats.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

25 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

He's only standing up for his industry I suppose.

 

Just like that Hibs twat Dewar today.

 

Practically said Sturgeon should have told everyone to book an overseas flight for the summer and if cancelled, the SG pay for it.

 

Apols, Shed arguement. 

 

It's relevant I think. Cormack and the others were fine with heaping additional financial strain on us, PT and Stranraer, and - using his logic about the importance of clubs to fans - adding to the stress of fans of those clubs when there was no need to do so.

 

If Scottish football had shown a united front and a desire to look after ALL its members, maybe the gov would look more kindly on their weekly claims for special treatment.

Edited December 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

48 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

on BBC radio just now on the sports report, football complaining that they want more and complaining about what Rugby is getting,  Hamilton and St Mirren complaining that its just not fair  Chris mcGlock-yin

 

The amount of moaning and "squealing" clubs like Hamilton, St Mirren and Killie, and their fans, have done I think puts to rest the idea that they would have just meekly accepted their fate if they'd been demoted the way we were.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

26 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Are we allowed to ask where is your proof ?

 

Reality is you are safer at the match following all the protocols than going to an shopping centre like the Gyle but that does not suit your narrative on this topic

 

Football is a weekly activity. Shopping at the Gyle isn't, or shouldn't be just now, unless you're doing your weekly big shop there. I can see the case for letting lower league clubs have fans. However can they afford the extra safety measures? I can't see how letting clubs like Aberdeen who have already taken the ticket money allow fans back in benefits anyone in the broader community. It just lets a couple of thousand people at most indulge in their favourite hobby, and in the process it adds traffic to roads, more people on the pavements and on buses, etc, etc on a weekly basis, with basically no benefit to the economy.

Edited December 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[CJGJ]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Your narrative is that life should just be normal. 

 

That would mean more deaths. 

 

Proof is tricky. I don't have access to all the information. But you could look at things like Help to Eat which are generally accepted to have led to more deaths. 

 

It's a choice. I think generally now Governments are making the right choices. 

Where have I stated life should be normal ?...

 

We live within certain terms and conditions that are not normal and no one is asking for full grounds but what is happening is a disgrace regarding no fans at matches in areas that could support a move to some fans being allowed and please don't quote that 300 nonsense made up by those in charge.

 

There is no reason why in some areas we cannot have 2000 to 4000 fans going to a  match

 

PS I fully expect Edinburgh figures to rise in time for the next decision making day...amazing I'm sure you'd agree.

[Mikey1874]

Covid was virtually eliminated in Scotland. Then people had their summer holidays here. Now we're back to 50 deaths a day. The informed debate is about whether there should have been more restrictions not less. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

Where have I stated life should be normal ?...

 

We live within certain terms and conditions that are not normal and no one is asking for full grounds but what is happening is a disgrace regarding no fans at matches in areas that could support a move to some fans being allowed and please don't quote that 300 nonsense made up by those in charge.

 

There is no reason why in some areas we cannot have 2000 to 4000 fans going to a  match

 

PS I fully expect Edinburgh figures to rise in time for the next decision making day...amazing I'm sure you'd agree.

 

I suspect this is the sticking point. You can bet your life the SPFL want ALL (ie you must include the OF) clubs to have fans back. They're not interested in letting the wee teams get back. If they were we'd have heard a lot more from the SPFL about that. They could have put a case together for all League 1 teams to have fans back for example as it's very low numbers. Instead all we hear about is Aberdeen. 

[Perth to Paisley]

5 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Hmm, going to disagree with you on this, if it really didn't matter, why did he change his vote? Why not just keep his vote as is?... and why did Dungcaster call, if it didn't matter?... was there promises made? Definitely something fishy there!

 

You are right about the fact that not enough was made of it!... but the independent enquiry was voted down. Definitely a big chance to call the SPFL to task, wasted there!

If you can believe anything he says - it was the Head Sheep who said it out loud on live radio that he received a call from Doncaster advising that his vote was irrelevant . No idea why he changed his vote but again it was him who said it.

Changing his mind appears to be his norm.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Perth to Paisley said:

If you can believe anything he says - it was the Head Sheep who said it out loud on live radio that he received a call from Doncaster advising that his vote was irrelevant . No idea why he changed his vote but again it was him who said it.

Changing his mind appears to be his norm.

 

The general gist seems to be that it was important how Aberdeen voted because Doncaster wanted to be able to use the "80% of clubs" line he's relied on to justify ending the league. Doncaster wanted to be able to spin the vote as a huge majority in favour (a united front basically), conveniently ignoring the decision actually rested on just one club's (changed in very dodgy circumstances) vote.

 

The fact that he's used the "overwhelming majority of clubs" line so much since adds weight to this theory for me.

Edited December 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Hashimoto said:

Why can they do it in England (allow supporters into grounds), and not in Scotland?

Simple answer - Celtic support

The last two Sunday's mob gathering, siege mentality has completely vindicated the Scottish Governments decision to limit attendances to certain areas only. Glasgow / Edinburgh firmly off the map at this time. and quite rightly so!

You are right, add in misbehaving Rangers fans, and fans are allowed into grounds here in the lower tiers like England. 

[JamboAl1965]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

How do they manage in England ?...amazing they can do what some on here think we can not

You keep holding England up as an axample. Can I ask why 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Hashimoto said:

Why can they do it in England (allow supporters into grounds), and not in Scotland?

Simple answer - Celtic support

The last two Sunday's mob gathering, siege mentality has completely vindicated the Scottish Governments decision to limit attendances to certain areas only. Glasgow / Edinburgh firmly off the map at this time. and quite rightly so!

 

 

This. The SPFL want the fans back thing to include the OF. The Scottish gov no doubt doesn't for very good reasons. If the SPFL pushed for small clubs to have fans back they might make more headway. They're not interested in doing this though. As usual it's all about the OF.

 

This is probably why Cormack seems to be the nominated spokesperson instead of Lawell, who seems very quiet about the fans thing.

Edited December 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[CJGJ]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl1965 said:

You keep holding England up as an axample. Can I ask why 

Perhaps because some fans are allowed to attend a football matches in England..just a thought

[EIEIO]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

This. The SPFL want the fans back thing to include the OF. The Scottish gov no doubt doesn't for very good reasons. If the SPFL pushed for small clubs to have fans back they might make more headway. They're not interested in doing this though. As usual it's all about the OF.

 

This is probably why Cormack seems to be the nominated spokesperson instead of Lawell, who seems very quiet about the fans thing.

The last thing Lawell wants at the moment is fans inside parkhead, bad enough when they are outside. Folk banging on about England 2 -4,000 folk inside 60,000 capacity stadiums like spurs and arsenal? Not much different from 300 at Ross County.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Perhaps because some fans are allowed to attend a football matches in England..just a thought

 

Having watched fans in the stadiums down there last weekend this is probably going to bite them in the arse in about 2 weeks time. There were an awfy lot of chin masks being worn.

[Nookie Bear]

24 minutes ago, JamboAl1965 said:

You keep holding England up as an axample. Can I ask why 

Doncaster himself cited English fans being allowed in as an example of unfairness. 
 

I still firmly believe the behaviour of celtics fans - not just the last week or so but also their gathering at the old firm games - has done more to make Sturgeon determined to make football wait more than anything else. 

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

Are we allowed to ask where is your proof ?

 

Reality is you are safer at the match following all the protocols than going to an shopping centre like the Gyle but that does not suit your narrative on this topic

Keep away from both for as long as you possibly can. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Doncaster himself cited English fans being allowed in as an example of unfairness. 
 

I still firmly believe the behaviour of celtics fans - not just the last week or so but also their gathering at the old firm games - has done more to make Sturgeon determined to make football wait more than anything else. 

 

This. Why would she take the risk of OF fans disgracing themselves given Celtic fans' recent behaviour? There's literally nothing in it for the government or the general population. 

 

Will fans back in Scotland help in the fight against COVID or benefit the economy? No

Will it risk spreading COVID? Yes

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Keep away from both for as long as you possibly can. 

 

I've not been a shopping centre since March! Why would you unless for essential stuff?

[jr ewing]

16 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Having watched fans in the stadiums down there last weekend this is probably going to bite them in the arse in about 2 weeks time. There were an awfy lot of chin masks being worn.

And shouting and singing. Caught up in the moment it's easy to forget unfortunately the virus doesn't. 

[JamboAl1965]

23 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Perhaps because some fans are allowed to attend a football matches in England..just a thought

so we should allow the same no matter what the  consequence. That’s bizzare at best.  Would be understandable if they were leading the way in evidence informed decision making that doesn’t cost lives. 
 

have you read the stuff yet and made  an informed decision or are you now basing your argument on your politics and England can?

 

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

How do they manage in England ?...amazing they can do what some on here think we can not

It’s not about whether we can or can not do it.. it’s whether should do it.!!

if there is a risk that someone may get sick and die Becuase someone wanted to watch a game of football then it’s not worth it.