SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[soonbe110]

On 04/04/2020 at 01:13, Paulp74 said:

UEFA have already said nations could lose european places if they dont play leagues to a finish so there is no way the sfa, or celtic for that matter, would allow this to happen.

 

Only 8 leagues games to play and 2 more rounds of the cup.

 

I'd imagine the league will start up again in june, play sat-wed-sat and the league is over by end of june. July off and start again in August. Simple!

Pure fantasy 

[soonbe110]

On 04/04/2020 at 01:13, Paulp74 said:

UEFA have already said nations could lose european places if they dont play leagues to a finish so there is no way the sfa, or celtic for that matter, would allow this to happen.

 

Only 8 leagues games to play and 2 more rounds of the cup.

 

I'd imagine the league will start up again in june, play sat-wed-sat and the league is over by end of june. July off and start again in August. Simple!

Pure fantasy 

[soonbe110]

On 04/04/2020 at 01:13, Paulp74 said:

UEFA have already said nations could lose european places if they dont play leagues to a finish so there is no way the sfa, or celtic for that matter, would allow this to happen.

 

Only 8 leagues games to play and 2 more rounds of the cup.

 

I'd imagine the league will start up again in june, play sat-wed-sat and the league is over by end of june. July off and start again in August. Simple!

Pure fantasy 

[Jamboelite]

1 hour ago, Clerry Jambo said:

I’m sure it will be on the agenda but I think the bigger clubs will throw it out just to get their 2 old firm games as usual per season. Short sightedness yes, realism I think will win over. 

You can reconstruct the league and still give them 4 OF games.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Jamboelite said:

You can reconstruct the league and still give them 4 OF games.

Id sooner we didn’t pander to it, but yes.

[John Findlay]

44 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If Kelty Hearts were in the Premier League they'd bring a bigger travelling support than Hamilton.

 

 

So what, Hamilton are there on footballing merit and that's the way it should be. 

[ramrod]

If the chairman of the other Spfl clubs vote to send us down it would be superb if the club refused away tickets when we came back up . 

Would love it if the Hamiltons , St Johnstones, St Mirrens , Livvy, etc got zero income from us every time we played them . 

 

[RENE]

The feeling is null and void is a no go because of payback to BT and SKY  and other sponsors.    How would BT and SKY deal with the thousands of supports who bought their sports packages then demanding a refund for the season from them.   Their customers services departments would gone into meltdown.   If that happened then I would gladly give the money to Hearts.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

If the chairman of the other Spfl clubs vote to send us down it would be superb if the club refused away tickets when we came back up . 

Would love it if the Hamiltons , St Johnstones, St Mirrens , Livvy, etc got zero income from us every time we played them . 

 

Might actually give us a little motivation to beat these sides too. 🙄

[Elshin]

What i find annoying, is had we beat st mirren in the last league game and they had been bottom by 1 point, the media stance would be that its unfair to relegate a team that just went bottom days before the league suspended.

 

The more i think about the league, based on any contract will 'demand' 4 old firm games, i think a 14 team league.  Play everyone twice and then splut into 2x 7s and play everyone twice.

 

Give 8th place an incentive like a playoff v 5th for europe or a bye past the league cup group stages.     

 

Get new names for all leagues and make it our own set up and brand.    Since relegation play offs have came into the leagues it has made great drama at the end of season

[David McCaig]

11 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

So what, Hamilton are there on footballing merit and that's the way it should be. 

Hamilton are paying their wages via TV Cheques and travelling supports, whilst diminishing the product of Scottish Football as a whole.  In my opinion they are nothing but parasites and their demise would be to the benefit rather than the detriment of Scottish Football.

[RonnieG]

The whole take them to court chat doesnt work.  There is no court to take them to.  The SPFL decide on the rules and as long as the member clubs agree to a situation then that decision goes.  Its not a law issue.   The only hope is that they allow the league to keep going until football starts again.  If that doesnt happen then i think we will be down.  I also think AB knows that and is currently working with the league to get a financial pay-off so they can kill the league earlier. 

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

The whole take them to court chat doesnt work.  There is no court to take them to.  The SPFL decide on the rules and as long as the member clubs agree to a situation then that decision goes.  Its not a law issue.   The only hope is that they allow the league to keep going until football starts again.  If that doesnt happen then i think we will be down.  I also think AB knows that and is currently working with the league to get a financial pay-off so they can kill the league earlier. 

Why could we not take them to CAS?

[Ehllhayapeh]

On 03/04/2020 at 16:45, Paint the town maroon said:

I agree with the first bit and the lack of any football for the foreseeable future will reduce the bitterness and venom we would expect from   Rangers as some fans will just want to move on.

 

The worry for us is similar. Other than our fans nobody outside of the club will give a toss. It won’t just be St Mirren or Hamilton who will be relieved, but again given the current climate and the financial hit all the other clubs in the top league just want some kind of closure or confirmed plan and the dosh paid out. We will be in danger of howling at the moon when under normal circumstances most people would consider it a bloody disgrace.

ItS fundamentally unfair but the mood music appears to be moving towards this outcome I fear.

I will.

 

Cause its wrong. Pure and simple. I dont want United up and Hearts down. Any fair thinking supporter of any club will say the same.

 

The solution to this is reconstruction. I dont support anything else as fair since seeing out the season looks very unlikely.

 

We have to think of the good of all not the good of single clubs.

 

Ending the season as is just as bad as voiding it. 

 

I realise my club benefits in this scenario but I dont agree with it at all. Any outcome that doesnt have both clubs in the top league next season is wrong and will lead to court cases all over the shop when the dust settles.

 

It is the daily ranger saying this though so pinch of salt Id say.

[Gilberts Fridge]

1 minute ago, RonnieG said:

The whole take them to court chat doesnt work.  There is no court to take them to.  The SPFL decide on the rules and as long as the member clubs agree to a situation then that decision goes.  Its not a law issue.   The only hope is that they allow the league to keep going until football starts again.  If that doesnt happen then i think we will be down.  I also think AB knows that and is currently working with the league to get a financial pay-off so they can kill the league earlier. 

 

Do you research any statements you make or do you make it up as you go along.

 

Membership of the SPFL is subject to the rules they lay down, which certain pundits are now suggesting that they be modified to fit this situation.

 

Membership of the league will also constitute a contract between the SPFL and its member clubs with the rules being a large part of that contract, either written or implied. Any civil contract can be argued all ways up by a decent commercial lawyer and it will depend on who has the biggest cahoonas  / pot of cash to pay the lawyers.

 

If we are relegated without another ball being kicked it will be with our agreement, for compensation after advice from our appointed legal advisers. 

 

 

[Unknown user]

Ann Budge knows the score, she knows mistake have been made and she knows her stock isn't at its highest with the fans. Theres no way she'll let us go down without a right good fight, she's thinking of what she hands over to us.

[RonnieG]

1 minute ago, Gilberts Fridge said:

 

Do you research any statements you make or do you make it up as you go along.

 

Membership of the SPFL is subject to the rules they lay down, which certain pundits are now suggesting that they be modified to fit this situation.

 

Membership of the league will also constitute a contract between the SPFL and its member clubs with the rules being a large part of that contract, either written or implied. Any civil contract can be argued all ways up by a decent commercial lawyer and it will depend on who has the biggest cahoonas  / pot of cash to pay the lawyers.

 

If we are relegated without another ball being kicked it will be with our agreement, for compensation after advice from our appointed legal advisers. 

 

 

Im sure i just said that. 

[Gilberts Fridge]

Just now, RonnieG said:

Im sure i just said that. 

No you did not you said that there is no court to take them to. 

 

If we want, we can take this through the civil courts for as long as we want/ can afford it

[RonnieG]

1 minute ago, Gilberts Fridge said:

No you did not you said that there is no court to take them to. 

 

If we want, we can take this through the civil courts for as long as we want/ can afford it

" I also think AB knows that and is currently working with the league to get a financial pay-off so they can kill the league earlier. "

 

It wont go to court.   IMO.  CAS is in effect is a mediator - its job to try and get a decision that both parties agree to.  It is not a Court in the legal sense. 

 

 

[Gilberts Fridge]

So you are now saying it wont go to court from there is no court to go to.

 

Are you saying this can't go to a civil court in Scotland? It very much can, that depends on the decision our board takes on advice from our legal advisers. My experience from taking civil legal advice is it is not always what you expect, there is always something that you were not aware of that may assist or hinder you in a contract. That's why you get decent lawyers. You also keep your powder dry until you need to.

 

Ann Budge probably has more business experience of any of us here and used to dealing with civil contract law.

 

You have just made it up as you went along.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Koolkeith said:

That’s just his opinion and based on absolutely nothing.

I would say if anyone is going to know it would be him. Highest up the BBC tree.

 

I'm not taking that one with a pinch of salt,  we need to be prepared for a railroading. 

 

Its coming our way,  we need to stand strong and demand rules are not shunted to allow Celtic 9 in a row 

[RonnieG]

10 minutes ago, Gilberts Fridge said:

So you are now saying it wont go to court from there is no court to go to.

 

Are you saying this can't go to a civil court in Scotland? It very much can, that depends on the decision our board takes on advice from our legal advisers. My experience from taking civil legal advice is it is not always what you expect, there is always something that you were not aware of that may assist or hinder you in a contract. That's why you get decent lawyers. You also keep your powder dry until you need to.

 

Ann Budge probably has more business experience of any of us here and used to dealing with civil contract law.

 

You have just made it up as you went along.

OK - i am saying that the civil courts will not get involved in an SPL ruling matter.  Can you give some recent examples?  I dont mind being proven wrong on this, but I do not think we will not be going near the civil courts on this. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by RonnieG

[Craig Herbertson]

They can ram this idea.

[annushorribilis III]

23 minutes ago, Gilberts Fridge said:

No you did not you said that there is no court to take them to. 

 

If we want, we can take this through the civil courts for as long as we want/ can afford it

On what basis ? Judicial review ? AB didn't like the outcome of her governing body?

 

"For as long as we want" -  that'snot how it works. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Remember when teams that finished the season “relegated” after all games were played but avoided being relegated because another club didn’t have enough seats in their ground?

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Remember when teams that finished the season “relegated” after all games were played but avoided being relegated because another club didn’t have enough seats in their ground?

 

 

Aberdeen 

 

St Mirren (though it would have been Hibs if they didn't make decision 6 weeks early)

[Gilberts Fridge]

7 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

On what basis ? Judicial review ? AB didn't like the outcome of her governing body?

 

"For as long as we want" -  that'snot how it works. 

 

The basis is a contractual dispute between two parties, us and the SPFL, if the SPFL do not follow their own rules or offer an outcome acceptable to the other party.   

[jock _turd]

I may just be looking at this a bit too simplistically BUT if One team goes down... then so must two! Why on earth would the second top of the Championship not say what is good for the goose is good for the gander? There is more than just the fate of Hearts at stake here there are other teams through the entire Scottish football leagues. I think the only solution is for the season to be played to a finish whenever than may be possible.

 

One other thing to bear in mind here is the very important fact that this virus is not suddenly going to disappear it will be around for years to come, it is for this reason that I personally do not see the football leagues starting again anytime soon otherwise all we have done will be for nothing and the cycle will start again.

[frankblack]

12 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

OK - i am saying that the civil courts will not get involved in an SPL ruling matter.  Can you give some recent examples?  I dont mind being proven wrong on this, but I do not think we will not be going near the civil courts on this. 

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

Perhaps you could try reading the following and giving us the bit where it says no company can take the SPFL to court?

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/frequently-asked-questions/general-faqs/questions-about-raising-or-defending-actions-in-court

[jamboinglasgow]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Aberdeen 

 

St Mirren (though it would have been Hibs if they didn't make decision 6 weeks early)

 

Aberdeen were saved as they were bottom the year it went from 10 teams to 12 teams.

 

Pretty sure it was Motherwell who were stopped from being relegated because Falkirk didn't have enough seats.

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Aberdeen were saved as they were bottom the year it went from 10 teams to 12 teams.

 

Pretty sure it was Motherwell who were stopped from being relegated because Falkirk didn't have enough seats.

aberdeen not motherwell

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/archives/football/57120/when-we-were-bottom-i-was-scared-to-go-out-the-front-door/

[Dazo]

20 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

On what basis ? Judicial review ? AB didn't like the outcome of her governing body?

 

"For as long as we want" -  that'snot how it works. 

Breach of contract I’d imagine for starters. Can we please stop peddling we can’t use the courts nonsense please. The spfl are not above the law regardless of what rules they dream up. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Dazo

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

aberdeen not motherwell

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/archives/football/57120/when-we-were-bottom-i-was-scared-to-go-out-the-front-door/

 

This is different seasons.

 

Motherwell were stopped from going down in 2003

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/f/falkirk/2931808.stm

[Gilberts Fridge]

Ultimately, non of us know what is going on, either on this board on in the press or punditry.

 

Until a clear statement is made from the SPFL and we have reacted to it,  it is all speculation.

 

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

This is different seasons.

 

Motherwell were stopped from going down in 2003

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/f/falkirk/2931808.stm

so falkirk have been screwed over twice

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

Perhaps you could try reading the following and giving us the bit where it says no company can take the SPFL to court?

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/frequently-asked-questions/general-faqs/questions-about-raising-or-defending-actions-in-court

Not sure of the exact ins and outs but I know that associations elsewhere have written agreements that they won’t sure the governing body.

 

CAS would be the most likely destination for an appeal. They’re there to arbitrate over sporting disputes.

[Koolkeith]

39 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I would say if anyone is going to know it would be him. Highest up the BBC tree.

 

I'm not taking that one with a pinch of salt,  we need to be prepared for a railroading. 

 

Its coming our way,  we need to stand strong and demand rules are not shunted to allow Celtic 9 in a row 

Agree mate. It does feel like the media at least are pushing for this. Perhaps being fed stories from clubs with their own agenda. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, jackal said:

Do you think Celtic would complain if Rangers were sitting top and about to be awarded the league?

 

Do you think night follows day follows night or that bears shit in the woods or even that the pope is a catholic? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, RENE said:

The feeling is null and void is a no go because of payback to BT and SKY  and other sponsors.    How would BT and SKY deal with the thousands of supports who bought their sports packages then demanding a refund for the season from them.   Their customers services departments would gone into meltdown.   If that happened then I would gladly give the money to Hearts.

 

Well they've been able to show all by 8 or so league games so people who paid for packages have had the majority of their package. They could demand repayment of a % of the annual sponsorship but no chance a full season refund. 

[davemclaren]

24 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

Perhaps you could try reading the following and giving us the bit where it says no company can take the SPFL to court?

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/frequently-asked-questions/general-faqs/questions-about-raising-or-defending-actions-in-court

Nothing to legally stop it but they would be in breach of FIFA article 59. All a bit messy. 

[R08813]

42 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

OK - i am saying that the civil courts will not get involved in an SPL ruling matter.  Can you give some recent examples?  I dont mind being proven wrong on this, but I do not think we will not be going near the civil courts on this. 

This is absolute nonsense 😂 every public body is regulated by the law and if they act in a way that negatively impacts upon a member unfairly then this can be challenged 

[RENE]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Well they've been able to show all by 8 or so league games so people who paid for packages have had the majority of their package. They could demand repayment of a % of the annual sponsorship but no chance a full season refund. 

That would be the same as the TV companies..... So it wouldn't be 'armageddon' for the SPFL.

[frankblack]

23 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Nothing to legally stop it but they would be in breach of FIFA article 59. All a bit messy. 

 

True, but its implications would probably do more harm to the SPFL and SFA if FIFA reacted, and affect our European competitions.

 

If they banned Scotland from international tournaments that would end the nation's torment, and if it affected the UEFA Places it would be unfortunate for Celtic and Sevco. 🤣

Edited April 7, 2020 by frankblack

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

I would say if anyone is going to know it would be him. Highest up the BBC tree.

 

I'm not taking that one with a pinch of salt,  we need to be prepared for a railroading. 

 

Its coming our way,  we need to stand strong and demand rules are not shunted to allow Celtic 9 in a row 

I’m not convinced it’s any more than just his opinion, but agree with your last sentence.

[Debut 4]

14 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Stendel had seven or eight games against bottom six opponents. He won zero. Literally all we had to do was beat St Mirren and we’d be fine. 
 

** Was Austin MacPhee that beat St Mirren 5-2.

 

Your devotion to Levein is akin to Hitler thinking the Battle of the Bulge was a great idea.
 

Not seeing the writing was on the wall months ago, seeing resources were dried up, battle weary forces now drained of morale and top performers. Only way was down.  Gies peace, man. 
 

(sorry to divert briefly but this poster must be a troll) 🧐🙃
 

 

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, R08813 said:

This is absolute nonsense 😂 every public body is regulated by the law and if they act in a way that negatively impacts upon a member unfairly then this can be challenged 

Will be argued out long before it gets anywhere near the courts. 

[frankblack]

12 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Your devotion to Levein is akin to Hitler thinking the Battle of the Bulge was a great idea.
 

Not seeing the writing was on the wall months ago, seeing resources were dried up, battle weary forces now drained of morale and top performers. Only way was down.  Gies peace, man. 
 

(sorry to divert briefly but this poster must be a troll) 🧐🙃
 

 

 

Our record with Stendel hasn't been as good as I would have liked, and players brought in did not do a lot to improve the team.

 

I hope things can change, but have my doubts.  If we do have to play out the season the bottom six teams are the ones we have struggled against.

[ericb]

My opinion is UEFA won't be given the green light to kick off a EL or CL season 20/21, as international borders will not be open across Europe until late in the year. Therefore, cancelling what remains of 19/20 and postponing new CL and EL till 21/22.

 

I predict SPL will end as it is today, Celts champs and us down, and standings as is for the next euro competitions.

 

Football when it does get up and running will be with an extended SPL, thus "saving" us, there will be champions and relegation but no euro placings, as these are deferred from this 19/20

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

True, but its implications would probably do more harm to the SPFL and SFA if FIFA reacted, and affect our European competitions.

 

If they banned Scotland from international tournaments that would end the nation's torment, and if it affected the UEFA Places it would be unfortunate for Celtic and Sevco. 🤣

Never thought of it that way. 😄 It’s in no-one’s interests for this to go to court though. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Nothing to legally stop it but they would be in breach of FIFA article 59. All a bit messy. 

I don't remember much fallout when Sheffield utd took west ham to the high court over the Tevez affair.