SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

It is always incredible the power of a headline or out of context quote can have.

 

Ann Budge also has suffered from being honest at times which football fans dont want to hear. 

Ann Budge has also suffered from thinking she can build relationships in the shitfest that is Scottish football. Her naivety has been bloody dangerous!

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Why should Dundee Utd be denied promotion?  You can’t award Celtic the title, promote Raith and Cove then make Utd play off!

Ok. Just call the season now and be done with it

[Gambo]

51 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

lies lies lies. 

 

i don't believe it wasn't submitted for one minute.

You are not alone.

[jambogaza]

They've fiddled it.

Simple as.

Any decent journalist would be calling it out.

[maroonsgotop]

7 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Like the cold. The question is though how bad the reinfection is. If they have mild symptoms then who cares?

looks like it will be 18 months until we go back to 'normal' or at least until a vaccine is in widespread use. That would rule out football being played in front of mass crowds next season in all liklihood. 

 

[PTBCAL]

What’s the worst that could happen? We go down for a year? Get back to getting things right on the pitch. Transfer ownership off the pitch. 
 

Clubs voted for self preservation and I have no issue with this. I have an issue with the SPFL forcing the majority of clubs to accept this by with holding much needed funds.

 

Regardless when the dust is settled we should use this as an opportunity to galvanise the club and bring us all together which is much needed.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Hibs fans kicking off about league reconstruction and how they hope we go down. ( Turkey's voting for Christmas ). However I don't recall this uproar when reconstruction saved Aberdeen. League reconstruction even for one season is the obvious choice so can't understand why they will not do it.

I fully understand clubs voting in their own best interest and this is why this vote was a farce from the start. Doncaster should be hounded out as he is a chicken hearted money grabbing waste of space.

Stand up and earn your wages and reconstruct. It's the only option that will end this season as there will not be any football this year.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, PTBCAL said:

What’s the worst that could happen? We go down for a year? Get back to getting things right on the pitch. Transfer ownership off the pitch. 
 

Clubs voted for self preservation and I have no issue with this. I have an issue with the SPFL forcing the majority of clubs to accept this by with holding much needed funds.

 

Regardless when the dust is settled we should use this as an opportunity to galvanise the club and bring us all together which is much needed.

Like losing a couple of million quid? Aye, great idea!

[maroonsgotop]

13 hours ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

This does look like an attempt to lobby to get them to change their mind.

what's the feeling in Dundee from both sets of fans as to what happened and what is likely to happen.

[Gambo]

If as someone said, the SFA are still wanting Scottish Cup finished, we should be threatening league finish = season finished including SC.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Gambo said:

If as someone said, the SFA are still wanting Scottish Cup finished, we should be threatening league finish = season finished including SC.

Absolutely. The cup should be scrapped if this happens.

[DETTY29]

29 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

As I've said earlier there is no reason to dilute the pot.  Prize money is paid from positions 1-42 no reason for that to change.

Premiership pot last season was £20.6m, from £3.35m down to £1.12m, ave £1.71m.

 

Bringing another two increases pot to £21.64m ave, £1.55m.

 

Only £150k odds but that is quite a percentage for clubs.

 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

3 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

looks like it will be 18 months until we go back to 'normal' or at least until a vaccine is in widespread use. That would rule out football being played in front of mass crowds next season in all liklihood. 

 

The problem with any vaccine is you can't be sure of the long term effects, the " cure " could be worse than the disease. Rushing through any medication is a minefield of unknown consequences

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

What’s the worst that could happen? We go down for a year? Get back to getting things right on the pitch. Transfer ownership off the pitch. 
 

Clubs voted for self preservation and I have no issue with this. I have an issue with the SPFL forcing the majority of clubs to accept this by with holding much needed funds.

 

Regardless when the dust is settled we should use this as an opportunity to galvanise the club and bring us all together which is much needed.

 

 

The worst that could happen is we stay down longer than one season. 

 

Assuming we'll bounce straight back up with no problems is a nice thought but no guaranteed. 

 

 

[Saint Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

There’s a clear basis for a legal process here.  The SPFL are declaring the Premiership vote as a pass based on 11 out of 12 votes being cast, but aren’t willing to declare the Championship vote a fail on the same grounds.  For the purpose of the 75% threshold, anything other than a yes vote should technically go in the no column plain and simple.  If Dundee get an extra 27 days to vote, then surely every other club gets 27 days to change their mind.

 

There isn't a "clear basis for a legal process". None of us have enough access to the detail to be able to say that.

 

Your point about clubs being able to change their mind is potentially right. But probably only up to the point that it reached the threshold to pass. If as has been claimed, the reason for the 27day limit is that the "voting" process is actually a process to execute a written resolution of members under company law then the deadline is how long it has to be passed, but the moment it reaches the threshold it passes.

[Rannoch]

I like Anne Budge. I honestly believe her to be a principled and ethical woman and when she took the moral high ground to have the shirt sponsor name: Save the Children,  rather than a betting company like the rest, she had me onside. She has made her money in a business environment, where ethical and legal standards prevail and she obviously feels uncomfortable dealing with the mafiosi in the SPFL and having to hold her nose. All this gerrymandering and slippery behaviour by the SPFL is to award Celtic the title at any cost. When Lennon was wheeled out in such a distasteful way to call for the league , as people were dying  (“one eyed view” -Tom English) in contrast to Klopp at Liverpool , who was most dignified, it was clear where this was going.
No stone will be un turned until Celtic get awarded the title and Hearts are mere collateral damage in this project. Will Anne Budge accept going down? Well that’s her decision but under absolutely no circumstances should the fans. We should fight to our last breath but it needs to be organised. We should let Rangers fight on one flank and us on the other and come together when required. I’ve little faith in the FoH , their latest email offered me a free toy because I had reached a new level of donation. As a Tesco loyalty card holder I probably have more influence over the Tesco CEO than my pledges have on anything Hearts do.  I do however have faith in the fans and would  contemplate anything as would rather , to quote a well worn phrase: “ die in a ditch” that let that corrupt cabal humiliate HMFC. 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

Premiership pot last season was £20.6m, from £3.35m down to £1.12m, ave £1.71m.

 

Bringing another two increases pot to £21.64m ave, £1.55m.

 

Only £150k odds but that is quite a percentage for clubs.

 

 

Just payout on places 13/14 as previously.

[maroonsgotop]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

The problem with any vaccine is you can't be sure of the long term effects, the " cure " could be worse than the disease. Rushing through any medication is a minefield of unknown consequences

indeed and people thinking we will be back to normal by August/September. 

[hibsarepants]

So if I am reading this right , Dundee have put in a post dated No vote. That raises two points:

1. The SPFL as of now dont have the votes to carry their resolution , so it falls

2. If Dundee were to somehow change their mind , I think you would have court injunctions left right and centre from the obvious parties including ourselves. These injunctions would I suspect freeze the funds being dispersed , defeating the purpose of the vote.

 

As Rangers stated just give out temp loans , until we reach agreement on the way fwd on whats best for Scottish Football as a whole NOT whats financially expedient.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Just payout on places 13/14 as previously.

 

 

Yip, pretty easy and uncomplicated to make the league 14 teams. And do it for all leagues. 

[TheOak88]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Absolutely. The cup should be scrapped if this happens.

 

The cup will be scrapped. 

[Hectormasson]

36 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Hope one or more of these cretinous clubs go tits up during the season and can't play their fixtures.    Tears,  snotters,  shite and snake scales all over the place.    

 

I'm looking forward to the Championship.    But do insist we **** these ***** up in the courts first.    Then praying for clubs imploding.

Hope st Mirren and hamilton go asap,,, that would be a start ,among others !

[maroonsgotop]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yip, pretty easy and uncomplicated to make the league 14 teams. And do it for all leagues. 

trouble is Dundee will probably want themselves, DU & ICT promoted and us expelled. If that means Celtic/SPFL getting awarded (not won) their tainted title then that may well happen by the mafiosa

[Forever Hearts]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

The cup will be scrapped. 

Absolutely no need to scrap this season's Scottish Cup, it's only three games and could be played within seven days. It would also be a nice gesture to give all the gate receipts from the three games to NHS Scotland. 

[Nookie Bear]

12 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

What’s the worst that could happen? We go down for a year? Get back to getting things right on the pitch. Transfer ownership off the pitch. 
 

Clubs voted for self preservation and I have no issue with this. I have an issue with the SPFL forcing the majority of clubs to accept this by with holding much needed funds.

 

Regardless when the dust is settled we should use this as an opportunity to galvanise the club and bring us all together which is much needed.

That needs to come from the boardroom, otherwise it’s just the fans making a noise for no reason. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Absolutely no need to scrap this season's Scottish Cup, it's only three games and could be played within seven days. It would also be a nice gesture to give all the gate receipts from the three games to NHS Scotland. 

Feck that! Imagine they relegated us. What team would we put out in the semi by the time it is played in October? Plus we should send a message to the arseholes in charge of the game as well.

[Fozzyonthefence]

8 minutes ago, Gambo said:

If as someone said, the SFA are still wanting Scottish Cup finished, we should be threatening league finish = season finished including SC.

I agree but this league farce isn’t anything to do with the SFA.  I still think the Scottish Cup should also be scrapped though if the league is scrapped.  To be honest, right now, I couldn’t even care it Hibs were to beat us in that semi, Celtic will pump them anyway.  No idea if I’ll change my opinion but I think this is the straw that broke the camel’s back for me, I think I’m finished with it.

[kila]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I agree but this league farce isn’t anything to do with the SFA.  I still think the Scottish Cup should also be scrapped though if the league is scrapped.  To be honest, right now, I couldn’t even care it Hibs were to beat us in that semi, Celtic will pump them anyway.  No idea if I’ll change my opinion but I think this is the straw that broke the camel’s back for me, I think I’m finished with it.

Aye it is. SFA are the ultimate domestic overloads and Mr Doncaster sits on that board too. They should be getting involved given the shit storm brewing on their watch but they are just as corrupt. 

[Saint Jambo]

7 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Just payout on places 13/14 as previously.

 

The issue with this is if you are Hamilton, Ross County or St Mirren you would be signing up to potentially getting less prize money next season. As it stands the least they can get is the amount awarded to 12th place. Under your plan the least they can get is the amount awarded to 14th place. They are also likely to appear in fewer televised games as there are more teams, reducing the payments they receive for this games. They lose out on a home game against either Celtic or Rangers as well as probably against someone like Aberdeen or Hubs who bring a larger travelling support. All this going into a season where because of coronavirus they are probably at their weakest financially.

 

I really don't think it is clear that reconstruction to 14teams is in the interest of all teams in the Premiership and it only needs 2 of 12 to vote against for it to fail.

 

[Homme]

One thing that is becoming very clear. Regardless if we fight this or not then our next league campaign will be in the Championship. 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Homme said:

One thing that is becoming very clear. Regardless if we fight this or not then our next league campaign will be in the Championship. 

 

 

Maybe so but by Christ we need to create a shitload of collateral damage in the process. If Budge meekly accepts this she should be hounded out of Tynecastle.

[gjcc]

8 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Feck that! Imagine they relegated us. What team would we put out in the semi by the time it is played in October? Plus we should send a message to the arseholes in charge of the game as well.

Exactly. We will have an entirely different team next season whether we are relegated or not. 

12.5- When a Match which is postponed, drawn, or abandoned is played or replayed, only those Players who were eligible, by means of their registration, to be listed on the Official Team Line for a Club at the date fixed for originally playing the Match, are eligible to be listed on the Official Team Line for that Club for the rescheduled Match.

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Why not just pay the money out?

 

Then wait until it’s safe to finish the season?

 

I don’t understand how you can give titles and relegations out when the season is not complete.

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Premiership pot last season was £20.6m, from £3.35m down to £1.12m, ave £1.71m.

 

Bringing another two increases pot to £21.64m ave, £1.55m.

 

Only £150k odds but that is quite a percentage for clubs.

 

 

The premier league pot is meant to be much bigger next season because of the new deal with Sky, the old figures cant really be used for comparison. 

[Saint Jambo]

14 minutes ago, hibsarepants said:

So if I am reading this right , Dundee have put in a post dated No vote. That raises two points:

1. The SPFL as of now dont have the votes to carry their resolution , so it falls

2. If Dundee were to somehow change their mind , I think you would have court injunctions left right and centre from the obvious parties including ourselves. These injunctions would I suspect freeze the funds being dispersed , defeating the purpose of the vote.

 

As Rangers stated just give out temp loans , until we reach agreement on the way fwd on whats best for Scottish Football as a whole NOT whats financially expedient.

 

I don't think you are reading it right. I've not seen anything to suggest that Dundee have post-dated their vote. On your other points:

1.The resolution doesn't fall because the deadline to get the necessary votes is still 28days away. 5pm yesterday turned out to be a request not a deadline.

2. If Dundee were to change their mind, other clubs would need a valid reason to get an injunction. I'm yet to see anything that comes even close to confirming that the SPFL have either broken their own rules or the law. It clearly won't have been handled well, but that isn't enough to get an injunction.

[Forever Hearts]

2 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Exactly. We will have an entirely different team next season whether we are relegated or not. 

12.5- When a Match which is postponed, drawn, or abandoned is played or replayed, only those Players who were eligible, by means of their registration, to be listed on the Official Team Line for a Club at the date fixed for originally playing the Match, are eligible to be listed on the Official Team Line for that Club for the rescheduled Match.

Every club will have a different team. 

[TyphoonJambo]

2 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

He is on as is Michal Stewart. 

What time? 

[number-16]

There's a thought that Covid-19 could be seasonal (explaining why it's affected Australia and New Zealand to a much lesser extent so far) and that the lockdown will likely be lessened over the summer.

 

If Covid-19 forces another lockdown next season, around December time, will the league be so quick to call the results and to relegate/promote as they are this time around.

 

Until there's a vaccine, which is likely still a year away, then there'll be some Covid-19 measures in place as the virus isn't going to go away by itself.

[Perth to Paisley]

As this season is still 'live' if one club in the bottom 6 went into Admin they would incur a15 point penalty.

(Not ourselves obviously)

#JustSaying

[Hectormasson]

17 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

indeed and people thinking we will be back to normal by August/September. 

There might not be any football till this time next year,   or later ?   We have too much to sort out with this covid19..   no amount of people can mix until theres a vaccine ready,,, this we  all know,  it's a long way till anything is going to be near normal,,,     but it would be nice to see where we stand asap ?        It does look like were playing in a lower league that's for sure,,, let's see where this all ends...and if so ,, let's hope a few teams who wanted all this ends up with shit on their faces .......

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I don't think you are reading it right. I've not seen anything to suggest that Dundee have post-dated their vote. On your other points:

1.The resolution doesn't fall because the deadline to get the necessary votes is still 28days away. 5pm yesterday turned out to be a request not a deadline.

2. If Dundee were to change their mind, other clubs would need a valid reason to get an injunction. I'm yet to see anything that comes even close to confirming that the SPFL have either broken their own rules or the law. It clearly won't have been handled well, but that isn't enough to get an injunction.

Point 2 already has a valid reason, viz. the reveal of the other votes. We would surely have grounds to say that no action can be taken at all until 27 days had passed and all other clubs can choose to change votes.

[EIEIO]

33 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

On second thoughts, you could succeed Neil Doncaster!

Just thinking outside the box Geoff,  desperate times mean desperate measures. Ideal scenario it would be Hibs not Livi!

[Shanks]

8 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

The issue with this is if you are Hamilton, Ross County or St Mirren you would be signing up to potentially getting less prize money next season. As it stands the least they can get is the amount awarded to 12th place. Under your plan the least they can get is the amount awarded to 14th place. They are also likely to appear in fewer televised games as there are more teams, reducing the payments they receive for this games. They lose out on a home game against either Celtic or Rangers as well as probably against someone like Aberdeen or Hubs who bring a larger travelling support. All this going into a season where because of coronavirus they are probably at their weakest financially.

 

I really don't think it is clear that reconstruction to 14teams is in the interest of all teams in the Premiership and it only needs 2 of 12 to vote against for it to fail.

 

 

 

Exactly.  I'm afraid the only reason reconstruction is being discussed here is because it's a Hearts forum and some fans are still trying to cling onto the fantasy. 

[TyphoonJambo]

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I don't think you are reading it right. I've not seen anything to suggest that Dundee have post-dated their vote. On your other points:

1.The resolution doesn't fall because the deadline to get the necessary votes is still 28days away. 5pm yesterday turned out to be a request not a deadline.

2. If Dundee were to change their mind, other clubs would need a valid reason to get an injunction. I'm yet to see anything that comes even close to confirming that the SPFL have either broken their own rules or the law. It clearly won't have been handled well, but that isn't enough to get an injunction.

Does this also mean all other teams, irrespective of how they originally voted, can change their minds? 

[Saint Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Siphiwe Tshabalala said:

Why not just pay the money out?

 

Then wait until it’s safe to finish the season?

 

I don’t understand how you can give titles and relegations out when the season is not complete.

 

Because there is a new TV deal starting and prolonging the season might lead to that deal being voided and a new deal needing to be negotiated. The SPFL are a sporting body that has been asked to choose between prioritising sport or finance. They've chosen finance and that stinks.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Funny how apart from Celtic the only show in town was regardless. The league must be finished. Now before the end of April which they knew would still be in lockdown there is an urgency to award Celtic the title. Get the cash NOW Monday? And demote us. So either the need for all clubs to celebrate Celtic as champions is paramount or by the end of April most clubs will be in financial mess they are flogging a dead horse. So we and Dundee should do anything and everything to deprive clubs of that cash injection until it would be due? Then we can hold them to ransom. Is this urgency to have the vote passed just in case UEFA null and void everything?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, TypoonJambo said:

Does this also mean all other teams, irrespective of how they originally voted, can change their minds? 

That is what I would be putting in front of m'lud.

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 minutes ago, Homme said:

One thing that is becoming very clear. Regardless if we fight this or not then our next league campaign will be in the Championship. 

 

 

Absolutely, clear as day.  I never got all the optimism on here to the contrary to be honest, I’ve always had that feeling, first when we lost to St Mirren then when the league was suspended.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[hughesie27]

46 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

There’s a clear basis for a legal process here.  The SPFL are declaring the Premiership vote as a pass based on 11 out of 12 votes being cast, but aren’t willing to declare the Championship vote a fail on the same grounds.  For the purpose of the 75% threshold, anything other than a yes vote should technically go in the no column plain and simple.  If Dundee get an extra 27 days to vote, then surely every other club gets 27 days to change their mind.

You'd have a point if the final SPL vote actually mattered. There's no point chasing it up if the result is the same. And On the cha going mind point. If Dundee have submitted a No vote that is not received yet that vote should count. If they have officially said they are abstaining and abstaining is allowed then that should count.

If they have not submitted a vote yet then and vote they do submit would officially not be a change of mind any more so than what Aberdeen seemingly done.

 

That's not to say that the whole thing isn't now open to corruption and ridicule thanks to hem releasing the voting info so far.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Shanks said:

 

 

Exactly.  I'm afraid the only reason reconstruction is being discussed here is because it's a Hearts forum and some fans are still trying to cling onto the fantasy. 

 

Germany were also looking at it, Belgium too. 

 

I think Chile done it as well. 

 

It's not fantasy, it's a credible option. 

 

Relegating teams when the fixtures are not completed, the fixtures played by all clubs is different and the bottom 6 hasn't even been decided is unfair. 

 

Furthermore, putting it to a club vote for your competition to decide is a complete farce. 

This is the big issue, the process of clubs voting in thier favour and to the detriment of others. 

 

The SFA should grow a pair and lead.