SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Fozzyonthefence]

19 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Surely 9-3 would apply (and if not then why not should be the question demanded of the governing body). 1st place gets proprtionally much more than the rest of the clubs, so an amount from first could be used to bump up 13th & 14th with a smaller figure being taken from the other clubs.

 

Its a small sacrifice for them to make

No a reconstruction vote would require a 11-1 vote from the Premiership initially and that’s before all the other clubs get a vote on it.  There’s zero chance of it happening if Dundee vote yes and probably not much better chance even if they vote no.  Hearts will be getting relegated unless there is a chance of a legal challenge and I, along with probably everyone else on here don’t have a clue if that is possible yet.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Shanks said:

 

They've played a blinder to be fair to them

Aye, fair play, fly *******s!

[David McCaig]

3 minutes ago, Shanks said:

 

They've played a blinder to be fair to them

Their best chance of promotion is an SPL side going bust!!!

[tolcross lad]

9 minutes ago, Shanks said:

Ridiculous we are sitting here waiting on Dundee deciding if Celtic win the league and Hearts are relegated. 

 

Just let that sink in. 

 

Its just incredible when you put it like that .

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No a reconstruction vote would require a 11-1 vote from the Premiership initially and that’s before all the other clubs get a vote on it.  There’s zero chance of it happening if Dundee vote yes and probably not much better chance even if they vote no.  Hearts will be getting relegated unless there is a chance of a legal challenge and I, along with probably everyone else on here don’t have a clue if that is possible yet.

If Dundee submit a vote now, the first thing we should do is head to the court and demand that no monies can be paid out because all clubs have 27 days to change their mind.

[chrisyboy7]

Let's face it we are down but let's face this too.......this virus eontvsllow genes to start in August. Not a chance. 

[maroonsgotop]

8 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Looks like this could blow up in the SPFLs faces big time! All over Twitter-Dom... 

yup. This is all about ending the league early to ensure Celtic get the title just in case UEFA void the season

[hughesie27]

If Dundee vote to promote their closest rivals then they are a waste of a league registration.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Noticeable that the trolls have disappeared too, incidentally.

[Jee]

If Dundee were going to vote no they'd have done it already and be telling the world they did.

[husref musemic]

40 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

Michael Stewart liked

 

 

 

@Kheredine

 

@Kheredine2018

 

Morning. Knowing what everyone else did,

@DundeeFC

now hold the casting

@spfl

vote. My info is they signed and dated a ‘no’ slip but didnt actually cast their vote. Meaning they could now change to ‘yes’. If they do, the motion to ‘call the season’ passes

lies lies lies. 

 

i don't believe it wasn't submitted for one minute.

[doctor jambo]

Don’t think the cash is that significant . I think some clubs want the season ended so they can enter administration and take the penalty next season.

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Don’t think the cash is that significant . I think some clubs want the season ended so they can enter administration and take the penalty next season.

There's no penalty for administration in these circumstances.

Edited April 11, 2020 by David McCaig

[NaturalOrder74]

10 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Their best chance of promotion is an SPL side going bust!!!

very fair point, reckon there’s one or two in there who might not survive the 28 days

[DETTY29]

8 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The current circumstances are the only chance it does have of getting through... Although Rangers a guaranteed no, so effectively an 11-0 required from remaining clubs!!

If it was to increase to 14, then 11 need to approve.

 

Increasing to 14 has the benefit of less likely chance of being  to relegated, but effectively reduced pot to share among the teams.  Also it loses some clubs one home game against either of Celtic Rangers.

 

Celtic and Aberdeen out as an absolute minimum.  Rangers vote dependent upon what can be done to stop 9IAR.

 

Normally Hibs and christ even us would say no as we now have the finances not to be in the shitter.  (Aaaagh what a cluster feck)

 

Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St. Johnstone well established top clubs who only flirt but generally ok.

 

Cant see it.

[David McCaig]

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

If it was to increase to 14, then 11 need to approve.

 

Increasing to 14 has the benefit of less likely chance of being  to relegated, but effectively reduced pot to share among the teams.  Also it loses some clubs one home game against either of Celtic Rangers.

 

Celtic and Aberdeen out as an absolute minimum.  Rangers vote dependent upon what can be done to stop 9IAR.

 

Normally Hibs and christ even us would say no as we now have the finances not to be in the shitter.  (Aaaagh what a cluster feck)

 

Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St. Johnstone well established top clubs who only flirt but generally ok.

 

Cant see it.

As I've said earlier there is no reason to dilute the pot.  Prize money is paid from positions 1-42 no reason for that to change.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

There's no penalty for administration in these circumstances.

 

There is for liquidation.

 

[tamanov]

I don’t think it is a coincidence that Dundee will be one of the very few clubs NOT to benefit from League reconstruction. 

The fact the vast majority have voted yes may point to a willingness for reconstruction but clubs are being asked for a binding vote without knowing what the final outcome / consequences will be!!

Surely there should only have been two options. 
1. End leagues as they stand and prepare for next season in current format. 
2. End leagues as they stand and agree to league reconstruction so we can all plan ahead
League reconstruction to 3 leagues of 14 benefits a great number of clubs, (not Dundee) but there are some complications to how it is formatted but worth mentioning that 18 teams would be”promoted” to a higher league and none relegated so that is all positive. 
. 

To understand how some clubs may be thinking you have to look at League Reconstruction issues so here are the options as I see it. 
 

- All current leaders declared champions 

- No relegation In any league

3 leagues of 14 teams
- Premiership

(Two teams Promoted)
- Championshiop

(Six teams promoted)

- League One 

(Remaining teams make up League One)

 

Next season 2 teams relegated / promoted automatically and then play offs as per current set up. 

You then have to look at the playing options for the formats of 14 teams, all with some good and bad points for each option.

 

OPTION A.
Play every team THREE times so 39 games total. Downside is teams will have 2 home games and one away game (or vice versa) against each team and would mean only 3 Old firm derbies so let the complaining begin from some fans, TV etc!

Non starter I think

 

OR

 

OPTION B. 
Play each team home and away (26 games), then league splits into 8 top half and 6 bottom half then play each other twice more
Top 8 teams get 40 games

(Extra games / income so an incentive to finish in top half) 

Bot 6 teams get 36 games

No team has any “free” weeks

 

OR

 

OPTION C.

Play each team home and away (26 games) then league splits into 7 top half and 7 bottom half, then play each other twice more
All teams get 38 games (Other 6 teams Home & Away) 

Each team will have 2 “free” weeks with nobody to play so if titles / relegation go down to the last games then those teams not playing could argue that the other teams have an unfair advantage ,so make sure the two teams not playing in the last week are the teams in 7th and 8th at the split, as they are least likely to be crowned champions / relegated! 

Apologies for the long post, nothing else to do. 

[David McCaig]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

There is for liquidation.

 

There is no punishment for liquidation as the club no longer exists.

 

Administration is something very different.

[maroonsgotop]

1 hour ago, RENE said:

If(and it's a big IF). If Dundee vote yes and get an agreement on reconstruction we will be relegated. Then they have reconstruction talks and it's agreed 14 team league.  Whats the guarantee we will be in Premiership.  What's to stop them saying three from Championship be promoted as Hearts have already been relegated.

yup. would not surprise me in the least although we would be expelled as opposed to relegated. Like wise Celtic awarded the title not won the title.

[EIEIO]

If these *******s exclude us from the Premiership in the belief they will start the season in August and all will be well they are sadly , for them, mistaken.

Any games taking place then and until a vaccine is found will be behind closed doors hitting their income big time.

Think SPFL will wait to see how other , less corrupt, countries throughout Europa  handle relegation. 

[Nookie Bear]

12 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

There's no penalty for administration in these circumstances.

Why not? Has this been confirmed because that would be a disgrace. 

[David McCaig]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Why not? Has this been confirmed because that would be a disgrace. 

Force majeure

[EIEIO]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Why not? Has this been confirmed because that would be a disgrace. 

No former SFA boss Gordon Smith stated this view in a recent interview.  Wouldn't put it past SPFL though.

[Victorian]

Hope one or more of these cretinous clubs go tits up during the season and can't play their fixtures.    Tears,  snotters,  shite and snake scales all over the place.    

 

I'm looking forward to the Championship.    But do insist we **** these ***** up in the courts first.    Then praying for clubs imploding.

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Force majeure

Has the whole concept of administration been set aside? Does it apply to every business?
 

The points deduction is a “football law” so I would expect this to be formalised. 
 

 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

I'd be very surprised if that's what their analysts are doing.

 

And all they need to do is seize the equipment, they can analyse at their leisure.

They might well if a crime had actually been committed. 

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Don't we why Hearts as the bottom team can't have a play off against the 2nd team from the championship to decide this.

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

There is no punishment for liquidation as the club no longer exists.

 

Administration is something very different.

 

Well the club isn't in the league anymore which was the original point.

[davemclaren]

57 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Mrs Budge is on record as saying she will not fight relegation. 

If that is what the football community decides we should be relegated we will handle relegation, or some pish like that. 

Of course she may have toughened her stance after yesterday's shenanigans. 

I'm wondering if Mrs Budge is looking for a place on the SPFL board after she has handed over to FOH. 

Just a thought🤔

She said she would take legal action if she thought She had a chance of winning. 

[husref musemic]

6 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

If these *******s exclude us from the Premiership in the belief they will start the season in August and all will be well they are sadly , for them, mistaken.

Any games taking place then and until a vaccine is found will be behind closed doors hitting their income big time.

Think SPFL will wait to see how other , less corrupt, countries throughout Europa  handle relegation. 

August restart is just one the layers of lies.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Don't we why Hearts as the bottom team can't have a play off against the 2nd team from the championship to decide this.

When?

 

The bottom line is football won't be played for God knows how long.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Don't we why Hearts as the bottom team can't have a play off against the 2nd team from the championship to decide this.

The play offs are being scrapped this season.  We can’t just replace the play offs we were meant to have with another one and in any case what you are proposing would leave us a 13 team league which is reconstruction and a separate vote altogether.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

August restart is just one the layers of lies.

 

Dunno if it’s a “lie”. 
 

It is ambitious but not out of the question. We still have 4 months til then. 

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

The play offs are being scrapped this season.  We can’t just replace the play offs we were meant to have with another one and in any case what you are proposing would leave us a 13 team league which is reconstruction and a separate vote altogether.

Apologies I meant the 1st team

[maroonsgotop]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

When?

 

The bottom line is football won't be played for God knows how long.

yup. South Korea reporting 91 people who were cured have once again got the virus so seemingly ruling out the theory that once cured you can't get reinfected

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, maroonsgotop said:

yup. South Korea reporting 91 people who were cured have once again got the virus so seemingly ruling out the theory that once cured you can't get reinfected

Like the cold. The question is though how bad the reinfection is. If they have mild symptoms then who cares?

[jambopilms]

Genuine question.

How have other sports or countries dealt with this ? Have they asked the club's to decide or has the organising body made decisions based on sporting integrity, revenue etc.

Voting will never work in Scotland , too many have old firm tendancies or dependencies 

[gashauskis9]

There’s a clear basis for a legal process here.  The SPFL are declaring the Premiership vote as a pass based on 11 out of 12 votes being cast, but aren’t willing to declare the Championship vote a fail on the same grounds.  For the purpose of the 75% threshold, anything other than a yes vote should technically go in the no column plain and simple.  If Dundee get an extra 27 days to vote, then surely every other club gets 27 days to change their mind.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Apologies I meant the 1st team

Why should Dundee Utd be denied promotion?  You can’t award Celtic the title, promote Raith and Cove then make Utd play off!

[EIEIO]

Anybody think we could potentially do an Airdrie ie buy a bankrupt premiership club eg Livi and take their SPFL share and keep our premiership place.

Goes against the grain but if these *******s expel us from the league the gloves should be off. Might need a more ruthless person than Ann at the helm to do this. A Wallace Mercer figure?

Imagine the seethe from the vermin etc.

Edited April 11, 2020 by EIEIO
Spelling

[Jeff]

Instead of the league cup you could have a few round robin style playoffs with everyone who could've been promoted and relegation sides

[Gambo]

1 hour ago, His name is said:

I haven't been keeping up with this debacle. 

 

Am I right in thinking, Dundee now hold the casting vote? 

 

They vote for the deal, we go down? 

 

They vote against the deal, its back to the drawing board? 

 

Is that where we're at? 

And they know how everyone else voted.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, EIEIO said:

Anybody think we could potentially do an Airdrie ie buy a bankrupt premiership club eg Livi and take their SPFL share and keep our premiership place.

Goes against the grain but if these *******s expel us from the league the gloves should be off. Might need a more ruthless person than an at the helm to do this. A Wallace Mercer figure?

Imagine the seethe from the vermin etc.

 

Ridiculous proposal.

 

I would do all I could to help these clubs go bust through withholding SPFL money if legally possible.

[S Form]

18 minutes ago, tamanov said:

I don’t think it is a coincidence that Dundee will be one of the very few clubs NOT to benefit from League reconstruction. 

The fact the vast majority have voted yes may point to a willingness for reconstruction but clubs are being asked for a binding vote without knowing what the final outcome / consequences will be!!

Surely there should only have been two options. 
1. End leagues as they stand and prepare for next season in current format. 
2. End leagues as they stand and agree to league reconstruction so we can all plan ahead
League reconstruction to 3 leagues of 14 benefits a great number of clubs, (not Dundee) but there are some complications to how it is formatted but worth mentioning that 18 teams would be”promoted” to a higher league and none relegated so that is all positive. 
. 

To understand how some clubs may be thinking you have to look at League Reconstruction issues so here are the options as I see it. 
 

- All current leaders declared champions 

- No relegation In any league

3 leagues of 14 teams
- Premiership

(Two teams Promoted)
- Championshiop

(Six teams promoted)

- League One 

(Remaining teams make up League One)

 

Next season 2 teams relegated / promoted automatically and then play offs as per current set up. 

You then have to look at the playing options for the formats of 14 teams, all with some good and bad points for each option.

 

OPTION A.
Play every team THREE times so 39 games total. Downside is teams will have 2 home games and one away game (or vice versa) against each team and would mean only 3 Old firm derbies so let the complaining begin from some fans, TV etc!

Non starter I think

 

OR

 

OPTION B. 
Play each team home and away (26 games), then league splits into 8 top half and 6 bottom half then play each other twice more
Top 8 teams get 40 games

(Extra games / income so an incentive to finish in top half) 

Bot 6 teams get 36 games

No team has any “free” weeks

 

OR

 

OPTION C.

Play each team home and away (26 games) then league splits into 7 top half and 7 bottom half, then play each other twice more
All teams get 38 games (Other 6 teams Home & Away) 

Each team will have 2 “free” weeks with nobody to play so if titles / relegation go down to the last games then those teams not playing could argue that the other teams have an unfair advantage ,so make sure the two teams not playing in the last week are the teams in 7th and 8th at the split, as they are least likely to be crowned champions / relegated! 

Apologies for the long post, nothing else to do. 

I think in the long run Dundee could benefit from reconstruction, or, to put it another way, they’re very likely to suffer if the proposal goes through as is and there are no further changes. For a start, they’re not getting a shot at a play off this season. And, if we are relegated they will find it very difficult to get an automatic promotion position next season. However, if there is reconstruction and United and Inverness go up then Dundee will be favourites to get promoted next year. If things don’t work out for them they might not get into the Premiership until season 22/23 - that’s a long way in the future.

[Gambo]

1 hour ago, Shanks said:

Ridiculous we are sitting here waiting on Dundee deciding if Celtic win the league and Hearts are relegated. 

 

Just let that sink in. 

Nothing to do with football, just football politics. We wont be relegated but demoted/expelled. Let that sink in.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Gambo said:

And they know how everyone else voted.

 

You have to think Hearts and Partick must be building up a dossier of evidence for their lawyers.

[jamboinglasgow]

11 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

She said she would take legal action if she thought She had a chance of winning. 

 

It is always incredible the power of a headline or out of context quote can have.

 

Ann Budge also has suffered from being honest at times which football fans dont want to hear. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Anybody think we could potentially do an Airdrie ie buy a bankrupt premiership club eg Livi and take their SPFL share and keep our premiership place.

Goes against the grain but if these *******s expel us from the league the gloves should be off. Might need a more ruthless person than Ann at the helm to do this. A Wallace Mercer figure?

Imagine the seethe from the vermin etc.

 

On second thoughts, you could succeed Neil Doncaster!

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Why should Dundee Utd be denied promotion?  You can’t award Celtic the title, promote Raith and Cove then make Utd play off!

 

Utd wouldn't be denied anything, they would be staying the same. 

Utd would Likley have been promoted but they weren't. 

 

There has to be consistenty tho, I agree. 

 

If Utd were 1 point clear would the clamour for Utd to be promoted be the same?

Hearts should not be effected based on Utd. 

You could award every team the title, just no promotion. 

 

Titles, promotion and relegation are all different as well. 

 promotion isn't a change for a club, it's keeping them as is. 

Titles can be denoted (top when league finished) 

Relegating a club is different, you are forcing a change of circumstances on a business. 

 

Also you could make the league 14 teams for a season or two. There are other options. 

 

Forcing a demotion on Hearts to accommodate utd is just wrong. 

Forcing a tangible and negative  change on Hearts to accommodate Utd is plain wrong as the league season wasn't complete. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Smith's right boot