SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Yes it is everybody's responsibility ... and we've joined the clubs who've abdicated that responsibility, sadly.

 

Mr Anderson made money available to all clubs to cover testing - it's basically not coming out of Hearts own funds.  On JKB, we've been criticising clubs who appear to have spent the money on other things.

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Yes it is everybody's responsibility ... and we've joined the clubs who've abdicated that responsibility, sadly.

 

Mr Anderson made money available to all clubs to cover testing - it's basically not coming out of Hearts own funds.  On JKB, we've been criticising clubs who appear to have spent the money on other things.

 

Not ideal but I prefer that to Hearts having extra focus on them which often ends up ad a stick to beat by setting standards above the others (imo)

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

The moral high ground is doing your level best to stop the virus spreading. If we can afford premiership style testing we should implement it regardless of what our competitors can manage.

 

This is a matter of life and death not some kind of game of percentages. 

If the rest of our league aren't doing it then there is no point in Hearts doing it...That is like one person from an household doing it...

[DH1986]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I'm not being tested. Neither are most people. The general position is you get tested if you have symptoms. 

Then why do Premier League teams have to get tested ?
 

Football is a contact sport and testing should be mandatory. I know some of our players look they’re social distancing at times but that isn’t on purpose.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

Then why do Premier League teams have to get tested ?
 

Football is a contact sport and testing should be mandatory. I know some of our players look they’re social distancing at times but that isn’t on purpose.

 

The priority is not testing its following the protocols. 

 

Risks from playing football are minimal. 

[ollie2004]

37 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I agree with you, especially when our Mr Anderson made money available to do weekly testing.     Can we really criticise  other clubs who haven't setup a regular testing regime when it seems we abandoned ours in October ?

 

Very poor example being set by Hearts.   We should be taking the moral high ground at times like this (imo)

 

 

Why???????

 

We are doing what is required on non Premier League clubs.

How nany of them supported us when we were demoted against the SPFL rules?

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

Then why do Premier League teams have to get tested ?
 

Football is a contact sport and testing should be mandatory. I know some of our players look they’re social distancing at times but that isn’t on purpose.

Let the reps on these joint committees sort it out, where we seem conspicuously absent of representation. We have no influence.  We're just a poor championship club like Morton with bills to pay.

[Lone Striker]

12 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I'm not being tested. Neither are most people. The general position is you get tested if you have symptoms. 

But folk playing professional team sports can't wait until someone develops symptoms - if they did, then the ramifications for everyone they've come into contact with for x number of days beforehand (including all their teammates and staff) would be huge.

 

Regular testing is meant to be an early warning alarm to identify someone with Covid long before they develop symptoms - it limits the number of contacts the guy has had.  

[Hungry hippo]

9 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

Then why do Premier League teams have to get tested ?
 

Football is a contact sport and testing should be mandatory. I know some of our players look they’re social distancing at times but that isn’t on purpose.

 

I agree but that is for the league to decide. The SPFL decided it was top tier only so we were disadvantaging ourselves by being the only team testing. 

 

Now that we've had a couple of cases I suspect we've decided to restart testing to get a firm grip on things to reduce the chances of a more significant outbreak.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

20 minutes ago, samgolden said:

Well why test people who have no symptoms if they did the Health service would come to a standstill 

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2020-11-27/covid-pcr-test-reliability-doubtful-portugal-judges/56962

Given that estimates of people who have Covid and who are asymptomatic range between 20 and 30%, there is a value in testing in those who are either exempt from other protocols or who are in higher risk situations. The second wave we had in Melbourne came from hotel quarantine and workers in that programme taking it home and transmitting it to their families as well as working in second jobs. Now the lessons learned include testing all workers daily who work in that area and banning them from second jobs.

[Lone Striker]

11 minutes ago, ollie2004 said:

Why???????

 

We are doing what is required on non Premier League clubs.  Indeed, yes.   An SPFL decision which many on here have been critical of. 

How nany of them supported us when we were demoted against the SPFL rules?  Irrelevant.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The priority is not testing its following the protocols. 

 

Risks from playing football are minimal. 

The risks to our team are actually in close contact situations, such as changing rooms. Therefore, the testing protocols should ensure that there is no risk of transmission amongst team mates.

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

But folk playing professional team sports can't wait until someone develops symptoms - if they did, then the ramifications for everyone they've come into contact with for x number of days beforehand (including all their teammates and staff) would be huge.

 

Regular testing is meant to be an early warning alarm to identify someone with Covid long before they develop symptoms - it limits the number of contacts the guy has had.  

The Hertz bubble is far more robust than their part time opponents. Do you feel these part time clubs have voiced concerns individually or collectively to the authorities? They really should be. Morally take the high ground 

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

I agree but that is for the league to decide. The SPFL decided it was top tier only so we were disadvantaging ourselves by being the only team testing. 

 

Now that we've had a couple of cases I suspect we've decided to restart testing to get a firm grip on things to reduce the chances of a more significant outbreak.

You'll have to explain that one to me.   

 

By NOT testing, a team is risking being severely handicapped by losing several player  who would have spent time in the dressing room  during the week with the guy who didn't know he had the virus.

 

[4marsbars]

24 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

If the rest of our league aren't doing it then there is no point in Hearts doing it...That is like one person from an household doing it...

 

If  by testing, HMFC discover one asymptomatic case and stop him spreading it to another person, and from that person to another two, and so on, it would be worth it .

[Gorgie Boot boy]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

You'll have to explain that one to me.   

 

By NOT testing, a team is risking being severely handicapped by losing several player  who would have spent time in the dressing room  during the week with the guy who didn't know he had the virus.

 

Instead of seeing Hearts as forward thinking, it becomes a waste of money and a million dumb questions.

[4marsbars]

31 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I'm not being tested. Neither are most people. The general position is you get tested if you have symptoms. 

 

Like most people I'm not regularly playing a contact sport with 21 others plus subs.

 

There's the general position. And then there's professional sport.

[Lone Striker]

9 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

The Hertz bubble is far more robust than their part time opponents. Do you feel these part time clubs have voiced concerns individually or collectively to the authorities? They really should be. Morally take the high ground 

In so much as players at part-time clubs probably have a normal job as well, then you're probably right.   The concept of a bubble for young guys in their 20s and 30s with wives and children is a bit like crossing your fingers and just praying that everyone obeys the mask/handwash/distancing rules at all times.

[Hungry hippo]

Everyone is critical of the new handball rule but I still expect Hearts players to scream for a penalty if the ball touches any arm. We play to the rules. 

 

There are arguments for testing players to avoid spread within our squad but I'm not in favour of doing anything just to set an example etc. Hearts first.

[Spellczech]

11 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

If  by testing, HMFC discover one asymptomatic case and stop him spreading it to another person, and from that person to another two, and so on, it would be worth it .

You cannot expect a business to voluntarily incur the cost of testing a whole workforce of low risk people just on the off-chance they benefit society by finding an asymptomatic case. That's bonkers.

[Riccarton3]

4 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

Everyone is critical of the new handball rule but I still expect Hearts players to scream for a penalty if the ball touches any arm. We play to the rules. 

 

There are arguments for testing players to avoid spread within our squad but I'm not in favour of doing anything just to set an example etc. Hearts first.

It's an easy attack mode. Set the ***** standards over and above the rest. And call it a moral high ground while sniggering at the same time. 

 

If you're no happy with the guidelines, write to the league.

[Lone Striker]

5 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

Everyone is critical of the new handball rule but I still expect Hearts players to scream for a penalty if the ball touches any arm. We play to the rules. 

 

There are arguments for testing players to avoid spread within our squad but I'm not in favour of doing anything just to set an example etc. Hearts first.

Then we agree.   👍   When I mentioned setting an example, I was meaning exactly what you've said - we're Hearts and we'll do whatever we think  is required to minimise the risk to our players.  👍   

[Riccarton3]

12 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

In so much as players at part-time clubs probably have a normal job as well, then you're probably right.   The concept of a bubble for young guys in their 20s and 30s with wives and children is a bit like crossing your fingers and just praying that everyone obeys the mask/handwash/distancing rules at all times.

That's right, following protocols issued to everyone else.

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You cannot expect a business to voluntarily incur the cost of testing a whole workforce of low risk people just on the off-chance they benefit society by finding an asymptomatic case. That's bonkers.

So why are we restarting testing now then ?       And the benefit of testing isn't primarily for society, it's for the players and their families.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

7 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You cannot expect a business to voluntarily incur the cost of testing a whole workforce of low risk people just on the off-chance they benefit society by finding an asymptomatic case. That's bonkers.

The "cost" to us is to avoid fixture cancellations! We currently have two players who, thankfully, have not impacted the rest of the squad but they could have.

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

So why are we restarting testing now then ?       And the benefit of testing isn't primarily for society, it's for the players and their families.

Because this strain is 70℅ more contagious?

[Lone Striker]

18 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Because this strain is 70℅ more contagious?

Aye, quite possibly. And maybe a realisation that we've been lucky to get away with only 2 cases during the period we weren't doing the regular testing.

[Spellczech]

28 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The "cost" to us is to avoid fixture cancellations! We currently have two players who, thankfully, have not impacted the rest of the squad but they could have.

I assume they still do the other stuff - Bubbles, awareness of symptoms etc. If every team we come up against has no requirement to test then the cost/benefit of testing is simply not there... With this new strain that changes perhaps

Edited January 4, 2021 by Spellczech

[Don Dan]

 

As First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced a new stricter lockdown in Scotland, officials at Tynecastle Park decided to resume testing.

 

Winger Josh Ginnelly and another unconfirmed player have returned positive Covid results since Christmas and been required to isolate.

[Spellczech]

31 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

So why are we restarting testing now then ?       And the benefit of testing isn't primarily for society, it's for the players and their families.

Because we are in lockdown - If you want football to be considered "essential" business you have to take steps to show the Govt you are taking steps in excess of Govt requirements.

[Lone Striker]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Because we are in lockdown - If you want football to be considered "essential" business you have to take steps to show the Govt you are taking steps in excess of Govt requirements.

Fair comment.  My understanding was that football was only able to restart in August after the government was satisfied that the SPFL had put in place sufficient protocols,  and penalties for non-compliance.   So if Hearts restarting testing is down to new government expectations, then surely the SPFL need to be enforcing it across all clubs .... no ?

 

 

[4marsbars]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

You cannot expect a business to voluntarily incur the cost of testing a whole workforce of low risk people just on the off-chance they benefit society by finding an asymptomatic case. That's bonkers.

Playing  football is hardly a low risk activity.

 

 

[Spellczech]

10 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

Playing  football is hardly a low risk activity.

 

 

but young fit men under 38 are low risk.

[Spellczech]

42 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Fair comment.  My understanding was that football was only able to restart in August after the government was satisfied that the SPFL had put in place sufficient protocols,  and penalties for non-compliance.   So if Hearts restarting testing is down to new government expectations, then surely the SPFL need to be enforcing it across all clubs .... no ?

 

 

I think Hearts are pre-empting anything the SPFL or SFA says or does. Makes it harder for them to cheat us out of promotion if the next step is to postpone the season... we are testing, up to SPFL to either get others to test or to pay for others' testing for them or to give us 3-0 wins if they default, because we are ready to play still.

 

Hearts are being smart here.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Spellczech

[Nookie Bear]

I’ll be honest, the word “elite” is being used as the barometer for sport continuing and I have a nasty feeling we are going to be told to down tools for January. 

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I’ll be honest, the word “elite” is being used as the barometer for sport continuing and I have a nasty feeling we are going to be told to down tools for January. 

Been covered already by the SG. Professional sport is exempt from the new restrictions. The WM gov used the term ‘elite’ sport which may or may not mean just the Premier League but in any case they have no authority over Scottish public health issues which are all devolved.

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Been covered already by the SG. Professional sport is exempt from the new restrictions. The WM gov used the term ‘elite’ sport which may or may not mean just the Premier League but in any case they have no authority over Scottish public health issues which are all devolved.

Ah right, I’ve somehow missed that- cheers. 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Fair comment.  My understanding was that football was only able to restart in August after the government was satisfied that the SPFL had put in place sufficient protocols,  and penalties for non-compliance.   So if Hearts restarting testing is down to new government expectations, then surely the SPFL need to be enforcing it across all clubs .... no ?

Hearts are looking after themselves and no-one else.  They want the assurance that testing brings them, particularly with the new variant at play. It is better to test and pick up one positive individual early in the infectious stage, rather than risk losing four or five at the same time. If that happened then we might be forced to play the likes of Frear and Roberts.

[DETTY29]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Been covered already by the SG. Professional sport is exempt from the new restrictions. The WM gov used the term ‘elite’ sport which may or may not mean just the Premier League but in any case they have no authority over Scottish public health issues which are all devolved.

Yes, but lets say England is EPL, what might the JRG offer as a trade off to the SG to protect the Premiership?

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

Ah right, I’ve somehow missed that- cheers. 

This Dubai thing could really come back and bite though if someone at the SG decides Celtic are taking the piss and pulls the rug from everyone 

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

Yes, but lets say England is EPL, what might the JRG offer as a trade off to the SG to protect the Premiership?

There doesn’t seem to be a need for a trade off. SG have said professional sport is exempt. Yes that could change but at the moment we’re fine to carry on. 
 

Very important to keep ahead in this league for the next few weeks

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

This Dubai thing could really come back and bite though if someone at the SG decides Celtic are taking the piss and pulls the rug from everyone 

Yes they could bring everyone down with them. 
 

The fact the JRG approved it is a shocker though - I always knew those committees were a joke. 

[Lone Striker]

30 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

but young fit men under 38 are low risk.

 

Apparently not,  due to the  new variants.  😲

 

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hearts are looking after themselves and no-one else.  They want the assurance that testing brings them, particularly with the new variant at play. It is better to test and pick up one positive individual early in the infectious stage, rather than risk losing four or five at the same time. If that happened then we might be forced to play the likes of Frear and Roberts.

Yes, I agree with that.  Although it seems Robbie is willing to play Frear  and/or Roberts already !!  🙄 

 

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

There doesn’t seem to be a need for a trade off. SG have said professional sport is exempt. Yes that could change but at the moment we’re fine to carry on. 
 

Very important to keep ahead in this league for the next few weeks

If that is the case then SG has remembered the treatment of Hearts when SPFL shut us down from training in September and pre-empted them trying to do the same to us again. I think the new CEO has had a hand in this (might be worth me remembering his name now)

[JimmyCant]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Yes they could bring everyone down with them. 
 

The fact the JRG approved it is a shocker though - I always knew those committees were a joke. 

They approved it back at the start of November. They (Celtic)claim the SG approved it but I have ma doubts they did. In any case things have changed a whole lot since the including a SG ban on non essential international travel. Celtic are at it here and yes, if the SG take the hump they could take the whole thing down.

[DETTY29]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

There doesn’t seem to be a need for a trade off. SG have said professional sport is exempt. Yes that could change but at the moment we’re fine to carry on. 
 

Very important to keep ahead in this league for the next few weeks

We've been here before.

 

Yellow Card due to Aberdeen and Celtic, Championship training stopped.

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

If that is the case then SG has remembered the treatment of Hearts when SPFL shut us down from training in September and pre-empted them trying to do the same to us again. I think the new CEO has had a hand in this (might be worth me remembering his name now)

Mr Faceless cast of thousands will do. I had to look it up earlier for something else 

[JimmyCant]

8 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

We've been here before.

 

Yellow Card due to Aberdeen and Celtic, Championship training stopped.

Well, the JRG and therefore the SFA/SPFL cannot possibly punish Celtic since they all approved the trip. That leaves any action entirely in the hands of the SG should they be so minded. The SG can’t apply sporting sanctions to Celtic. Their only course of action would be to take football off the exempt list if it can’t be trusted to play ball. Which clearly in the case of it’s biggest club, it can’t be.

Edited January 4, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

If that is the case then SG has remembered the treatment of Hearts when SPFL shut us down from training in September and pre-empted them trying to do the same to us again. I think the new CEO has had a hand in this (might be worth me remembering his name now)

Andrew Mackinlay 

[Glamorgan Jambo]

That Selleck statement. Alluding that Nicola and Jason Leitch personally approved the Dubai trip. Dissembly of the highest order.

[Japan Jambo]

5 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Don't know how much testing costs now, but last summer it cost a company I know which sent a team of 8 to Las Palmas for a fortnight £1200 per person for testing...

 

Depends how you do it, but can be done for less than £5 a go if you buy in boxes of 25 from Germany.