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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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Clerry Jambo
25 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

McInnes definitely mentioned not wanting Hearts to be relegated when interviewed on Sportsound on Saturday.

 

I'm sure it was a live interview too.

Correct I was listening to it 

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1 hour ago, annushorribilis III said:

If common sense says Celtic were going to win the league then equally common sense says Hearts  were going to be relegated.  Whatever happens needs to happen according to the rules/defined process  : anything else will see AB in the courts for a judicial review and the SPFL know it. 

 

The 14 team league scenario is perfectly workable. 

Common sense tells you that Celtic would win the league right enough. Relegation is far too close to apply an arbitrary decision to though. That’s the precise opposite of common sense. Yes we COULD be relegated. Some would even say it’s highly likely. but it’s not a definite by any stretch and it needs to be decided on the park or not at all.
 

The most likely outcome is that this season will be finished whenever it can be and in as short a time frame as possible. Not more than 6 weeks from resumption to finish and probably mostly behind closed doors. Its not going to resume again until the infection rate comes down to negligible numbers per day and the restrictions are lifted enough to allow closed door games. That’s at least 6-8 weeks away IMO.

Edited by JimmyCant
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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

Being reported Uefa are pushing indefinite extension to the current season for all leagues.

 

Aberdeen and Hibs and anyone else taking the wage deferral approach right now:

 

tumblr_mldfv2jD5G1rvnnvyo6_250.gifv

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1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

Being reported Uefa are pushing indefinite extension to the current season for all leagues.

 

The desperation from UEFA to get their champions league cash is never ending, but fortunately governments will tell them what to do and there is nothing UEFA can do about it.

 

The player contract extension is also nonsense as the Bosman case prevents clubs retaining registrations once a contract expires if a player chooses to leave.

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2 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

If common sense says Celtic were going to win the league then equally common sense says Hearts  were going to be relegated.  Whatever happens needs to happen according to the rules/defined process  : anything else will see AB in the courts for a judicial review and the SPFL know it. 

 

The 14 team league scenario is perfectly workable. 

Hardly. When did 10 or 13 = 4? 

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1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

That would interesting.

If no games are played this year maybe next season would be scrapped. 

That would be the end of most clubs in Scotland including

 one of the big two I’d think. 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

That would be the end of most clubs in Scotland including

 one of the big two I’d think. 

There’s certainly no easy answer.

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14 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

There’s certainly no easy answer.

Scrap teams going into Europe next season finish this season.

Start new season and play games in midweek instead of games in Europe.  

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46 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Aberdeen and Hibs and anyone else taking the wage deferral approach right now:

 

tumblr_mldfv2jD5G1rvnnvyo6_250.gifv


Im not sure how, they could just extend the deferrals or change plans.  It’s not really a competition either which seems to be your aim. 

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42 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The desperation from UEFA to get their champions league cash is never ending, but fortunately governments will tell them what to do and there is nothing UEFA can do about it.

 

The player contract extension is also nonsense as the Bosman case prevents clubs retaining registrations once a contract expires if a player chooses to leave.


All true.  It could end up good news for HMFC though 👍

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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

The desperation from UEFA to get their champions league cash is never ending, but fortunately governments will tell them what to do and there is nothing UEFA can do about it.

 

The player contract extension is also nonsense as the Bosman case prevents clubs retaining registrations once a contract expires if a player chooses to leave.

 

UEFA dictate edicts not for sporting integrity but to protect the greed of those that run the biggest clubs in Europe. The elite club of clubs which Celtic and Rangers are so desperate to be part of dominate in some way all we do from the set up of the SPL to what and when we watch games. This global crisis is showing this side of football up as nasty horrible selfish business which filters down into undignified domestic squabbles.

 

All this hanging on the coattails of what ‘UEFA says goes’ is utter nonsense. Let's face it it's about basic survival now, not who gets to keep a snout in the UEFA pig trough. Indeed their trough may run very dry for some time. Unclosing national borders for ‘pleasure visits’ will be well down the list of priorities for countries during a un-lockdown period and a unified approach to free movement in Europe is unlikely until hotspots disappear and/or vaccinations have been proved reliable and widely available. UEFA’s powers do not extend to giving Football entourages special privileges to flout travel rules. The resumption of football games in public in each Country will come first and will ultimately be down to each country's governments. It is this more than anything that will dictate the survival of clubs and not the qualification for and resumption of cross border elitist tournaments. Whether it's the end of an old season or beginning of a new one, relegation or not or reconstruction should be a local matter only that serves the purpose of saving as many teams big and small from oblivion. 

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annushorribilis III
2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Common sense tells you that Celtic would win the league right enough. Relegation is far too close to apply an arbitrary decision to though. That’s the precise opposite of common sense. Yes we COULD be relegated. Some would even say it’s highly likely. but it’s not a definite by any stretch and it needs to be decided on the park or not at all.
 

The most likely outcome is that this season will be finished whenever it can be and in as short a time frame as possible. Not more than 6 weeks from resumption to finish and probably mostly behind closed doors. Its not going to resume again until the infection rate comes down to negligible numbers per day and the restrictions are lifted enough to allow closed door games. That’s at least 6-8 weeks away IMO.

Celtic have been predictably successful as Hearts have been predictably unsuccessful. I don't see why using the "successful" logic sees Celtic potentially being crowned champions while using the same logic doesn't see Hearts relegated (ie , a winning team will keep on winning but a losing team will NOT keep on losing ?). 

 

It'a helluva conundrum for the SPFL but then it needn't be /shouldn't be because it 's made up of the member clubs. 

 

All the SPFL clubs have to do is put it to a vote and it's job done. 

 

 

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kingantti1874

If we are relegated with 8 games left to play I will never ever pay to watch hearts away from home ever again.. there is no ****ing way I will ever ever give another club any money in any shape or form. 

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33 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Celtic have been predictably successful as Hearts have been predictably unsuccessful. I don't see why using the "successful" logic sees Celtic potentially being crowned champions while using the same logic doesn't see Hearts relegated (ie , a winning team will keep on winning but a losing team will NOT keep on losing ?). 

 

It'a helluva conundrum for the SPFL but then it needn't be /shouldn't be because it 's made up of the member clubs. 

 

All the SPFL clubs have to do is put it to a vote and it's job done. 

 

 

 

Well Hamilton, St Mirren and Ross County are pretty shite too and could be comfortably caught in 8 games. 

 

Conundrum indeed. 

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Fozzyonthefence
33 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Celtic have been predictably successful as Hearts have been predictably unsuccessful. I don't see why using the "successful" logic sees Celtic potentially being crowned champions while using the same logic doesn't see Hearts relegated (ie , a winning team will keep on winning but a losing team will NOT keep on losing ?). 

 

It'a helluva conundrum for the SPFL but then it needn't be /shouldn't be because it 's made up of the member clubs. 

 

All the SPFL clubs have to do is put it to a vote and it's job done. 

 

 


The decision would be made by the SPFL board not the member clubs.  A vote on league reconstruction, however, would go out to the member clubs.  This is the current SPFL Board (only 3 of them appear to be affiliated to Premiership clubs, although I have no idea who MacLennan and McCluskey are):

D3AE3178-C68E-481C-979C-183D3D0BB984.jpeg

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GorgieRules22
5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

If we are relegated with 8 games left to play I will never ever pay to watch hearts away from home ever again.. there is no ****ing way I will ever ever give another club any money in any shape or form. 

A sentiment that every Hearts supporter should share.

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Fozzyonthefence
3 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

A sentiment that every Hearts supporter should share.


Why is everyone taking aim at the clubs when it isn’t their decision?!  

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Nookie Bear
2 hours ago, Texaco said:

 

UEFA dictate edicts not for sporting integrity but to protect the greed of those that run the biggest clubs in Europe. The elite club of clubs which Celtic and Rangers are so desperate to be part of dominate in some way all we do from the set up of the SPL to what and when we watch games. This global crisis is showing this side of football up as nasty horrible selfish business which filters down into undignified domestic squabbles.

 

All this hanging on the coattails of what ‘UEFA says goes’ is utter nonsense. Let's face it it's about basic survival now, not who gets to keep a snout in the UEFA pig trough. Indeed their trough may run very dry for some time. Unclosing national borders for ‘pleasure visits’ will be well down the list of priorities for countries during a un-lockdown period and a unified approach to free movement in Europe is unlikely until hotspots disappear and/or vaccinations have been proved reliable and widely available. UEFA’s powers do not extend to giving Football entourages special privileges to flout travel rules. The resumption of football games in public in each Country will come first and will ultimately be down to each country's governments. It is this more than anything that will dictate the survival of clubs and not the qualification for and resumption of cross border elitist tournaments. Whether it's the end of an old season or beginning of a new one, relegation or not or reconstruction should be a local matter only that serves the purpose of saving as many teams big and small from oblivion. 


I think it’s reasonable as things stand to wait for UEFA’s guidance in this but, ultimately, the final decision rests with the respective governments. 
 

It would be grossly unfair if the German government gave the all clear for, say, closed door games to take place, allowing them to comply with UEFA whilst our government extends the ban on even closed door games happening. 

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kingantti1874
5 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

A sentiment that every Hearts supporter should share.


Without doubt. It must be organised - over the years will cost clubs far more than the pishy prizemoney on offer..

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kingantti1874
1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why is everyone taking aim at the clubs when it isn’t their decision?!  


Do you think they are not behind it. ? 

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9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


The decision would be made by the SPFL board not the member clubs.  A vote on league reconstruction, however, would go out to the member clubs.  This is the current SPFL Board (only 3 of them appear to be affiliated to Premiership clubs, although I have no idea who MacLennan and McCluskey are):

D3AE3178-C68E-481C-979C-183D3D0BB984.jpeg

Karyn mc is CE of community justice Scotland and has done loads of work to combat violence. Lovely woman but no idea where she stands on footie 

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GorgieRules22
7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why is everyone taking aim at the clubs when it isn’t their decision?!  

Being honest if we’re relegated with 24 points still to play for I’ll not be attending any semi final if that we’re to still go ahead  either. I’ll continue to put money into the Foundation and buy three season tickets but I’ll not be putting any money whatsoever in the pocket of anyone else connected with Scottish football other than our own club.

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:


Do you think they are not behind it. ? 


Only the ones that are on the Board but unless it’s unanimous we won’t know who’s voted what way.  Quite happy to boycott Rangers, Hamilton and Motherwell though as I never go there anyway.

 

 

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Fozzyonthefence
10 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Karyn mc is CE of community justice Scotland and has done loads of work to combat violence. Lovely woman but no idea where she stands on footie 


👍 Hopefully she’s a Jambo!

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We have a global virus which clearly has the potential to take the life of the UK Prime Minister and thousands of others and celric want the league fixtures completed.

Pathetic.

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Nookie Bear
1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

We have a global virus which clearly has the potential to take the life of the UK Prime Minister and thousands of others and celric want the league fixtures completed.

Pathetic.


I think everyone wants the fixtures completed, just not at any cost. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

There’s no way we should be relegated with these games left.

 

**** Budge and Levein, though, for putting us in harm’s way.

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I just don’t see any practical way to complete the season. By the time football can resume, loads of players will be out of contract and many clubs may struggle to raise a team. And what do you do after the games are complete? Hearts (for example, but we wouldn’t be alone) wouldn’t be able to set a budget and sign players for the following season before knowing what division we would be in. So you couldn’t just go straight into the new season.

 

I still think that they will eventually declare the season void, because any other solution involves declaring Celtic champions, which would be massively contentious. Easier to just pretend it never happened, and they have plenty practice at that after the Sevco fiasco. (I think the fairest solution would be to have a 14-team league next year, but I don’t think they will go for that because they don’t want to upset the Orcs).

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1 hour ago, annushorribilis III said:

Ok then.

Ok what ? its a perfectly reasonable comment.

 

Probability stats would show that a 13 or 10 gap will bear out a result more often than not and a 4 point gap wouldnt.

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:


Without doubt. It must be organised - over the years will cost clubs far more than the pishy prizemoney on offer..

 

Trouble is fans would flock to away games if we were back up the top of the league challenging for 2nd and pushing the team at the top. We (fans) have very short memories when it comes to our clubs. 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There’s no way we should be relegated with these games left.

 

**** Budge and Levein, though, for putting us in harm’s way.

 

You's be as well saying **** the Chinese communist regime for putting us (all as it happens) in harms way. 

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Mr Elwood P
1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There’s no way we should be relegated with these games left.

 

**** Budge and Levein, though, for putting us in harm’s way.


If only the new gaffer had been given a run of very winnable games against bottom

six opponents, we might have stood a chance. 
 

Incidentally, if a global pandemic had broken out during Levein’s tenure, we would not be having this discussion ... 

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annushorribilis III
2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


The decision would be made by the SPFL board not the member clubs.  A vote on league reconstruction, however, would go out to the member clubs.  This is the current SPFL Board (only 3 of them appear to be affiliated to Premiership clubs, although I have no idea who MacLennan and McCluskey are):

D3AE3178-C68E-481C-979C-183D3D0BB984.jpeg

I never said it would be made by the clubs. 

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Fozzyonthefence
3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


If only the new gaffer had been given a run of very winnable games against bottom

six opponents, we might have stood a chance. 
 

Incidentally, if a global pandemic had broken out during Levein’s tenure, we would not be having this discussion ... 

 

Yawn

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Fozzyonthefence
2 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

I never said it would be made by the clubs. 


You did say All the SPFL clubs have to do is put it to a vote and it's job done. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
9 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


If only the new gaffer had been given a run of very winnable games against bottom

six opponents, we might have stood a chance. 
 

Incidentally, if a global pandemic had broken out during Levein’s tenure, we would not be having this discussion ... 

:laugh:

 

Best.straw.clutch.ever

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annushorribilis III
1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


You did say All the SPFL clubs have to do is put it to a vote and it's job done. 

Correct.  I don't  say they WOULD put it to a vote of the clubs , I suggest it only as a possibility.  

 

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13 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


If only the new gaffer had been given a run of very winnable games against bottom

six opponents, we might have stood a chance. 
 

Incidentally, if a global pandemic had broken out during Levein’s tenure, we would not be having this discussion ... 

 

All very fair points, actually.

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

Correct.  I don't  say they WOULD put it to a vote of the clubs , I suggest it only as a possibility.  

 


You suggested the SPFL clubs should have a vote on it, that’s what I responded to.  If you didn’t meant the clubs should vote on it then I don’t understand what you meant?!

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Guest ToqueJambo
2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


The decision would be made by the SPFL board not the member clubs.  A vote on league reconstruction, however, would go out to the member clubs.  This is the current SPFL Board (only 3 of them appear to be affiliated to Premiership clubs, although I have no idea who MacLennan and McCluskey are):

D3AE3178-C68E-481C-979C-183D3D0BB984.jpeg

 

Several conflicts of interest there if the league is called now! Alloa are very close to a relegation play-off position and Hamilton are in a relegation playoff position. Both would significantly benefit from not finishing the league. If European places are given out after 30 games, Motherwell would also benefit - again significantly.

 

On the other hand, only Montrose would really lose out potentially as they are currently in a promotion playoff spot.

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Guest ToqueJambo
45 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


If only the new gaffer had been given a run of very winnable games against bottom

six opponents, we might have stood a chance. 
 

Incidentally, if a global pandemic had broken out during Levein’s tenure, we would not be having this discussion ... 

 

To be fair Stendel got more points vs Ross County, St J and Hamilton than Levein. He also got double the number of wins Levein did, but in fewer games and managed to get a draw against Aberdeen. Levein did beat St Mirren though so there's that. It's just the way things have gone for us that Hamilton decided to beat Rangers just when we were about to get off the bottom of the table.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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Mr Elwood P
5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

To be fair Stendel got more points vs Ross County, St J and Hamilton than Levein. He also got double the number of wins Levein did, but in fewer games and managed to get a draw against Aberdeen. Levein did beat St Mirren though so there's that. It's just the way things have gone for us that Hamilton decided to beat Rangers just when we were about to get off the bottom of the table.


Stendel had seven or eight games against bottom six opponents. He won zero. Literally all we had to do was beat St Mirren and we’d be fine. 
 

** Was Austin MacPhee that beat St Mirren 5-2.

 

Edited by Mr Elwood P
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10 hours ago, Baxfee said:

Karyn mc is CE of community justice Scotland and has done loads of work to combat violence. Lovely woman but no idea where she stands on footie 

Obviously the ideal person to vote on the SPFL outcome. Including the usual old farts from the lower clubs and the full time non entities  , it seems the majority of SPFL board members have no experience of being involved in  Premiership clubs. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
9 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:


If only the new gaffer had been given a run of very winnable games against bottom

six opponents, we might have stood a chance. 
 

Incidentally, if a global pandemic had broken out during Levein’s tenure, we would not be having this discussion ... 

 

Jam tomorrow.

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part_time_jambo
9 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


You did say All the SPFL clubs have to do is put it to a vote and it's job done. 

What about the 11-1 voting system? That gives Hearts a veto does it not?

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Seymour M Hersh
4 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

What about the 11-1 voting system? That gives Hearts a veto does it not?

 

That's in the premiership this is all of the SPFL. 

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From the snippets I have heard from a pretty good source, reconstruction is the favoured approach by most of the clubs, especially those in the lower leagues. There are those further up the food chain though that don’t want that.

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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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