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Sir Paul Hartley


pointon

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1 hour ago, pointon said:

Excellent record of promotion in the lower leagues got to be our next manager

Loved him as a player. Not for me as manager Ta

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44 minutes ago, j1964m said:

Stendel will still be here when the new season begins

Here’s hoping πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ». Β  Β πŸ‘πŸ»

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William H. Bonney
51 minutes ago, j1964m said:

Stendel will still be here when the new season begins


I wouldn’t think that’s likely.Β 

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No thanks.Β 

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Love the guy but what, really, does he have to offer. His managerial career has had its moments but could still be described as patchy.Β 

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I just don't believe he has the experience, or contacts, to lead Hearts forward.Β 

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Certainly hope @j1964mis correct.Β 

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I know players who have played under a Robbo and Hartley, both are bog standard coaches with big standard records managing at their appropriateΒ level. Let’s leave this daft chat. Locke put in this bracket as well.Β 

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jock _turd
2 hours ago, pointon said:

Excellent record of promotion in the lower leagues got to be our next manager

Great player for us... poor manager!

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Angel eyes

Nope the idea of a legend/hero returning as a manager is never a good idea they’re better left as a legend orΒ Β hero I’d put Hartley, Robertson in that bracket and also Skacel if it ever came to pass he was interested.

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13 minutes ago, Angel eyes said:

Nope the idea of a legend/hero returning as a manager is never a good idea they’re better left as a legend orΒ Β hero I’d put Hartley, Robertson in that bracket and also Skacel if it ever came to pass he was interested.

True Craig has turned out a hero to zero twiceΒ 

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black stump

I can see Stendel going and Craig stepping in on a temporary basis...

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might as as well if he is still on the books!

Edited by black stump
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Vlad Magic
3 hours ago, pointon said:

Excellent record of promotion in the lower leagues got to be our next manager


Based on what?

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A strong opening statement. Care to back it up?

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Vlad Magic
23 minutes ago, black stump said:

I can see Stendel going and Craig stepping in on a temporary basis...

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might as as well if he is still on the books!


Why and where is Stendel going?

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There is nothing to suggest he will leave unless you know more than me/us?

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Please share if you have info?

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Weakened Offender
1 hour ago, Furious Styles said:


I wouldn’t think that’s likely.Β 

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I really hope you are correct.Β 

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23 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:


Based on what?

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A strong opening statement. Care to back it up?

Promoted with Alloa athletic,Dundee and as good as with Cove RangersΒ 

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Pre levein the final 2 candidates were Hartley and pressley with big Elvis outshining sir Paul at the interview so more chance of the big man getting a shot. maybe robbo too as cant see Stendel coming back

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AlimOzturk

Honestly see Elvis getting the gig if Stendal goes. Would be a shame because long term Stendal and Hearts sound like a love story made for each other.Β 

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Unknown user
4 hours ago, pointon said:

Excellent record of promotion in the lower leagues got to be our next manager

Β 

You must not know any Falkirk fans

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Guest ToqueJambo

He wouldn't be top of my list of ex-players with lower league Scotland experience. I'd consider him along with Robbo, Pressley, Cameron, Naysmith andΒ McCann in the list of people who are available though.

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It's not going to be a hard league and our resources will way outstrip every other club next season (even after all the belt-tightening).Β I think all those names would be likely to be able to get us promoted with minimal fuss.

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Only Robbo also has decent top league experience as well though,Β so he's still my No. 1 choice from ex players. I'd also be more than happy with JJ returning to guide us back up, and Naismith as a player-manager possibility.

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Saint Jambo

Fans expectations are pretty unrealistic. They don't want someone without experience but also don't want someone with any failure on their CV. That pretty much rules out any manager in the world. Promoted with 3 of the 4 teams he has managed is, as the OP says, an excellent recordΒ of promotion in the lower leagues. He got successive promotions with Alloa and following promotion managed a top 6 finish with Dundee. He has 7Β years of experience as a manager. He is certainly not a crazy suggestion based on his record.

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Hectormasson
1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

Honestly see Elvis getting the gig if Stendal goes. Would be a shame because long term Stendal and Hearts sound like a love story made for each other.Β 

Elvis can gtf,Β  Β  Β never again back at tyney !!!

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Guest ToqueJambo
7 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

Fans expectations are pretty unrealistic. They don't want someone without experience but also don't want someone with any failure on their CV. That pretty much rules out any manager in the world. Promoted with 3 of the 4 teams he has managed is, as the OP says, an excellent recordΒ of promotion in the lower leagues. He got successive promotions with Alloa and following promotion managed a top 6 finish with Dundee. He has 7Β years of experience as a manager. He is certainly not a crazy suggestion based on his record.

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This. It should really be a "horses for courses" manager. None of this looking ahead to the season after. We just need someone with experience of managing in that league andΒ who knows Hearts and the expectations around us. If they areΒ if not a legendΒ then at least well-respected ex-player as well then even better IMO. Unless we can find someone with Neil Lennon's stature and experience as Hibs did. He will have cost a fortune though so we may not be able to swing for someone with his experience.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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Wouldn't be against Hartley tbf, he's had a few good seasons and some shite seasons too. Wouldn't be the worst shout.Β 

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Wish we could get Neilson back tbh.Β 

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

Honestly see Elvis getting the gig if Stendal goes. Would be a shame because long term Stendal and Hearts sound like a love story made for each other.Β 

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Sad but true. Could be a case of right manager, wrong time. Elvis would be a solid appointment IMO, but would probably be bottom of most people's lists of ex-Hearts players they want asΒ manager.Β 

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Naysmith as a player-manager possibility , This get him to step up toΒ  the plate ? Remember wee Doddie , he turned the club round with his Professionalism, Naysmith along with McCann.

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3 hours ago, j1964m said:

Stendel will still be here when the new season begins

Stendel's on big wages, although he's waived them during the virus issue. I think we can do better for less if we go down.

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black stump
1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:


Why and where is Stendel going?

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There is nothing to suggest he will leave unless you know more than me/us?

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Please share if you have info?

No inside info, I just have a feeling he Won't be back, and Anne has a fixation for Craig.

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Guest ToqueJambo
2 minutes ago, black stump said:

No inside info, I just have a feeling he Won't be back, and Anne has a fixation for Craig.

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It's not going to be Levein FFS. Stendel is too expensive for the Championship IMO and will be risky. We or him can apparently active a clause to release him if relegated and I'dΒ expect us or him to do it. Who'd want to work in this league anyhow with all the carry on! I wouldn't;t blame him but he does seem to love the club already so who knows.

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We need to go back to basics with a manager IMO. I was keen to see what someone like Cathro could do but I've had enough of experiments. There were big risks associated with Neilson (inexperience), Levein (not really up for it/past it/too many fancy ideas), Cathro (inexperienced and too many fancy ideas) and Stendel (inexperienced in Scotland and maybe too many fancy ideas for Scottish football). Only one worked out.Β Every new manager has some risk but we can mitigate against most of these things by appointing someone like Robbo.

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45 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

He wouldn't be top of my list of ex-players with lower league Scotland experience. I'd consider him along with Robbo, Pressley, Cameron, Naysmith andΒ McCann in the list of people who are available though.

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It's not going to be a hard league and our resources will way outstrip every other club next season (even after all the belt-tightening).Β I think all those names would be likely to be able to get us promoted with minimal fuss.

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Only Robbo also has decent top league experience as well though,Β so he's still my No. 1 choice from ex players. I'd also be more than happy with JJ returning to guide us back up, and Naismith as a player-manager possibility.

Our resources outstripped most teams this season!!

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A_A wehatethehibs

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The thing is, what if it all went horribly wrong for Robbo and we ended up hating him like we do his old team mateΒ Levein?Β 

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There's too much emotion there. He's not just a legend he is THE legend of this football club. Why risk tarnishing that.Β 

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Let him stay at Caley, enjoy his football for a few years. Quite handy to get them set up as a bit of a feeder club as well, few of our ex-lads and loan lads up there, away from the big city, focus on their footballΒ with a manager we can trust to look after Hearts boys careers properly... Even big Brad MacKay has carved out a career for himself and he wasn't the best iirc.Β It's a good club I'm happy Robbo is there.Β 

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Hartley on the other hand, I think would be more suited for the pressure cooker.Β He had the pressure cooker of the vlad years as a player, and also Celtic.Β A bitΒ more all round experience of the modern TV era game, been around many clubs, the younger generation. More a match for some of our players. The direct comparison for coming in to Hearts i would say is getting Dundee promoted for the first time in 12 years. That was a high pressure gig but he did it. Now everyone seems to just disregard that achievement because he didn't get them inΒ top 6, then it went tits up. That promotion was huge for Dundee, look at them now, back down for another 12 years probably, searching for another Hartley to take them up again (if they exist which hopefully they wont and Dens gets bulldozed, 10,000 Hearts fans would probably turn up to watch that).Β 

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HartleyΒ has had ups and downs as a manager, FOUR promotions across all 3 lower leagues.Β If he stays at Cove, You'd probably back him for another successiveΒ promotion next season. Promotion specialist and our goal is promotion. Plus if it all went wrong for him at HeartsΒ I don't think it would tarnish his status much, he's aΒ greatΒ but not to the extent of John Robertson, nobody is or ever will be.

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If it's not Stendel, for me, go for Hartley.Β Not to mentionΒ theΒ cup semi final against Hibs at Hampden will need dealt with. AS far as I'm concerned no matter what happens in the league, that fixture must be played. SPH might be up for getting his boots on for itΒ knowing what took place last time.Β 

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Edited by A_A wehatethehibs
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Rick James

He did do a very good job at Alloa, I will give you that.

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Dundee, he was expected to get them up, and once up, they invested a bit of money in the playing squad for a top 6 finish. They scraped into the top 6, although would've finished 8th were it not for the split, and finished a whopping 8 points behind Hamilton, who came up with them on a much lesser budget.Β Bear in mind, despite the fact they were a newly promoted side, they had no Rangers, Hearts or Hibs to contend with. Even in 15/16, they wanted another crack and failed, still with no Rangers or Hibs. 16/17, they struggled to stay up and even lost to an Ian Cathro side.

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He was pretty shite at Falkirk, and while he's done well at Cove, have you seen their budget and squad?

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Love PH, a real hero for me growing up watching that team, but like Pressley, I don't think he'll ever be good enough for Hearts. Definitely not any time soon.

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Rick James
13 hours ago, j1964m said:

Stendel will still be here when the new season begins

I think (and hope) you're right on that one.

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kingantti1874
11 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:


Why and where is Stendel going?

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There is nothing to suggest he will leave unless you know more than me/us?

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Please share if you have info?


Stendel had a 2- way relegation clause in his contract. In the event of relegation he could choose to leave andΒ hearts could choose to let him go (as he is extremely expensive)

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I don’t think he will be here, even if he did want to stay he’d have to take a mighty pay cut.

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Edited by kingantti1874
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A_A wehatethehibs
1 hour ago, Locky said:

He did do a very good job at Alloa, I will give you that.

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Dundee, he was expected to get them up, and once up, they invested a bit of money in the playing squad for a top 6 finish. They scraped into the top 6, although would've finished 8th were it not for the split, and finished a whopping 8 points behind Hamilton, who came up with them on a much lesser budget.Β Bear in mind, despite the fact they were a newly promoted side, they had no Rangers, Hearts or Hibs to contend with. Even in 15/16, they wanted another crack and failed, still with no Rangers or Hibs. 16/17, they struggled to stay up and even lost to an Ian Cathro side.

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He was pretty shite at Falkirk, and while he's done well at Cove, have you seen their budget and squad?

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Love PH, a real hero for me growing up watching that team, but like Pressley, I don't think he'll ever be good enough for Hearts. Definitely not any time soon.

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Don't see the comparison to Pressley as fair, Pressley has never had any real success as a manager at any club. Hartley has had 4 promotions with 3 different clubs, so it is fair to call him a bit of a promotion specialist, and on 2Β of the 4, promotion wasΒ expected / demanded of him. Promotion is our objective so that's part ofΒ why I think he'd be a good fit.

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What you said about his promotion at Dundee is exactly what i mean in my other post, this notionΒ he was expected to get promoted so therefore it's not that great. It undersells it, thereΒ were tenΒ yearsΒ worth of managers who had the same expectation and failed. Hartley was and still is the only one who had any tangibleΒ success at Dundee. Their "top 6 minimum every year" after he took them up which you've spelled out is, for me, justΒ classic Dundee delusions of grandeur over-expectation. Successful small clubs never set expectations so high it's always about staying up first and foremost. So I see it as a problem with Dundee delusionΒ than a problem with Hartley. They're fundamentally shite and Hartley swam against the tide by even getting them in the Premier.

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As for Stendel I don't share your hope that he'll still be here. Very tough gig for him to keep Hearts up after the Levein shambles, I feel for him, but I say cut our losses. Going in to next season the sad truth is thereΒ will be many of the same players, andΒ a demand that we must win every game and smash promotion,Β I'm not convinced inΒ his ability to communicateΒ with players and his relationships. IMO I'd be a bit concerned he'd be possibly similar toΒ Csaba Laszlo at Dundee United before Neilson, except Stendel isΒ a lot more expensive. A Neilson type manager with a bit more experience is what I think we need, someone who'll keep cool, get organised, understand the importance of the job and the club,Β and get Hearts up. Very tough call to make as there's plenty choices and each one can be criticized (eg. Robbo, sacked byΒ Livi, DerryΒ and East Fife then out of a job, working in Hearts hospitalityΒ forΒ years before he got lucky with ICT calling him) - every choice has their drawbacks there's no perfect answer.Β 

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My kind of debate though, straight shootout John Robertson vs Paul Hartley for Hearts. Maybe justΒ get the both of them in? Take Hibs on with aΒ HammerΒ in each hand...

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Edited by A_A wehatethehibs
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14 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

We currently already have a manager so why are there numerous threads on hiring a new one?

Especially the same names mentioned over and over. How many timesus that now Paul Hsrtley is going to be our new boss?!

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A_A wehatethehibs
1 minute ago, hmfcbilly said:

Especially the same names mentioned over and over. How many timesus that now Paul Hsrtley is going to be our new boss?!

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Yes good thing we decided to be smart and hire Ian Cathro, then Craig Levein, then Stendel, then bring championship football back to Tynecastle.Β 

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hmfc_liam06
2 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

Especially the same names mentioned over and over. How many timesus that now Paul Hsrtley is going to be our new boss?!

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Exactly. There's a weird fascination with us getting former players back in the squad or as manager.

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Stendel has certainly not come across as if he's going to invoke that relegation clause either.

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A_A wehatethehibs
4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

@A_A wehatethehibs

Could never hate Robbo, Ever! And I don't hate CL, either. Disappointed, yes, but not hate.

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I hope that more fans can eventually come to forgive Levein as you and I have. He tried, and had a tough last year with his heart scare etc.Β  The hatred and derision Levein has received is a tragedy, total breakdown in the fans relationship with him. I just wouldn't want to see that or anything close to it with Robbo.Β 

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Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

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I hope that more fans can eventually come to forgive Levein as you and I have. He tried, and had a tough last year with his heart scare etc.Β  The hatred and derision Levein has received is a tragedy, total breakdown in the fans relationship with him. I just wouldn't want to see that or anything close to it with Robbo.

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Β 

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Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

πŸ‘

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A_A wehatethehibs
3 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

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Exactly. There's a weird fascination with us getting former players back in the squad or as manager.

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Stendel has certainly not come across as if he's going to invoke that relegation clause either.

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Can't see himΒ walking, not easy for him to find another job.Β It will be the clubs decision to stick or twist.Β 

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5 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

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Yes good thing we decided to be smart and hire Ian Cathro, then Craig Levein, then Stendel, then bring championship football back to Tynecastle.Β 

Not really sure what you're getting at here?Β Dont know how many new manager threads there have been lately with Paul Hartley constantly been named? For what it's worth, I wouldnt count him out but right now we still have a manager who hasn't said he is leaving so I dont understand the continual fascination with next manager threads!

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6 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

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Exactly. There's a weird fascination with us getting former players back in the squad or as manager.

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Stendel has certainly not come across as if he's going to invoke that relegation clause either.

Correct mate. Until he does, dont see the point in discussing next gaffer continually. I only opened thread as title was Paul Hartley so wasnt sure what it would lead to. I'm out now!

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Rick James
18 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

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Don't see the comparison to Pressley as fair, Pressley has never had any real success as a manager at any club. Hartley has had 4 promotions with 3 different clubs, so it is fair to call him a bit of a promotion specialist, and on 2Β of the 4, promotion wasΒ expected / demanded of him. Promotion is our objective so that's part ofΒ why I think he'd be a good fit.

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What you said about his promotion at Dundee is exactly what i mean in my other post, this notionΒ he was expected to get promoted so therefore it's not that great. It undersells it, thereΒ were tenΒ yearsΒ worth of managers who had the same expectation and failed. Hartley was and still is the only one who had any tangibleΒ success at Dundee. Their "top 6 minimum every year" after he took them up which you've spelled out is, for me, justΒ classic Dundee delusions of grandeur over-expectation. Successful small clubs never set expectations so high it's always about staying up first and foremost. So I see it as a problem with Dundee delusionΒ than a problem with Hartley. They're fundamentally shite and Hartley swam against the tide by even getting them in the Premier.

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As for Stendel I don't share your hope that he'll still be here. Very tough gig for him to keep Hearts up after the Levein shambles, I feel for him, but I say cut our losses. Going in to next season the sad truth is thereΒ will be many of the same players, andΒ a demand that we must win every game and smash promotion,Β I'm not convinced inΒ his ability to communicateΒ with players and his relationships. IMO I'd be a bit concerned he'd be possibly similar toΒ Csaba Laszlo at Dundee United before Neilson, except Stendel isΒ a lot more expensive. A Neilson type manager with a bit more experience is what I think we need, someone who'll keep cool, get organised, understand the importance of the job and the club,Β and get Hearts up. Very tough call to make as there's plenty choices and each one can be criticized (eg. Robbo, sacked byΒ Livi, DerryΒ and East Fife then out of a job, working in Hearts hospitalityΒ forΒ years before he got lucky with ICT calling him) - every choice has their drawbacks there's no perfect answer.Β 

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My kind of debate though, straight shootout John Robertson vs Paul Hartley for Hearts. Maybe justΒ get the both of them in? Take Hibs on with aΒ HammerΒ in each hand...

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Can't fault any of your points at all mate, I just think he's still got a bit to learn before he maybe becomes Hearts boss. If he had no Hearts connection, he's not someone who'd be on anyone's lips. I'm just reluctant about anyone who is a 'Hearts man' coming in right now, after we had our fingers burnt with Levein. He's a great example of how to tarnish a legacy at a club, and it brings me a degree of sadness that is happened. Obviously though, in an ideal world, every manager would be a successful ex-player who's career as gaffer was just as successful as when they had their boots on. I'd back Hartley to the hilt if he was appointed tomorrow.

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As for Stendel, I've just nailed my colours to the mast for long enough now that if he was going to leave, then I think he'd have left already. He's been back in Germany for weeks not taking a wage, while the daily news condemns us to relegation more and more. I think if he wanted to cut his losses and trigger his clause, he would've, and I don't think Budge would stop him. He's fought tooth and nail to get this far, and in the eyes of many, will be seen as having a relegation on his CV if he sticks around. I can't see him taking that hit to his reputation then walking with it. I think he'll stay and try and win it back.

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At least I hope that's the case.

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Tokyo Drifter
22 hours ago, j1964m said:

Stendel will still be here when the new season begins

Happy to have Hartley if he isn't. I'd take Elvis back too.

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East Lothian Jambo
22 hours ago, j1964m said:

Stendel will still be here when the new season begins

I'd very much doubt that will be the case. The financial cost of him and his backroom staff will be at odds with Scottish Championship revenueΒ 

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