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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

From what I've seen so far, other than Sibbick, Stendel is an awful judge of a player!!

Boyce? Sibbick played two games? The other guy was on Liverpool’s radar and worth millions before his inner demons took over, Langer looked ok and no worse than what we have already. 

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David McCaig
6 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:


Yes but do you remember him in 2007 and 2008 under frail when we finished 8th? It was the 08-09 season he got the captaincy and established himself as the number one choice and got his first caps. As you said he was 23-24

 

He was not 16 like Hickey - is the point being made here. 

Club captain June 2007. Scotland debut at the end of 07/08 season.

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East Lothian Jambo
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Boyce? Sibbick played two games? The other guy was on Liverpool’s radar and worth millions before his inner demons took over, Langer looked ok and no worse than what we have already. 

January recruitment hasn't helped our cause sadly 

 

I certainly thought Stendel would've achieved far more than he has to date 

 

This mess is all on Levein and Budge though. I've absolutely no doubt about that 

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David McCaig
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Boyce? Sibbick played two games? The other guy was on Liverpool’s radar and worth millions before his inner demons took over, Langer looked ok and no worse than what we have already. 

Boyce had been on our radar for years and actually got worse with every game he played under Stendel.

 

Sibbick look great until glandular fever.

 

Langer looked truly hopeless, so probably next in line for a contract extension.

 

Avdijaj - I was going to say hasn't kicked a ball for us, but then remembered free kicks v St Johnstone and Hamilton!!

 

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A_A wehatethehibs
Just now, David McCaig said:

Club captain June 2007. Scotland debut at the end of 07/08 season.


Yes good work you can read Wikipedia. He was regularly poor, had plenty of absolute wallopers on KB calling him a carthorse “never good enough for Hearts” etc etc - until he was age 23 under Laszlo as another poster has pointed out above 

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2 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

January recruitment hasn't helped our cause sadly 

 

I certainly thought Stendel would've achieved far more than he has to date 

 

This mess is all on Levein and Budge though. I've absolutely no doubt about that 

Yes it was ridiculous that he signed 2 players he should have known would go down with a fever.

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Pasquale for King
Just now, East Lothian Jambo said:

January recruitment hasn't helped our cause sadly 

 

I certainly thought Stendel would've achieved far more than he has to date 

 

This mess is all on Levein and Budge though. I've absolutely no doubt about that 

It’s not the easiest window, we were bottom of the league, we had to get rid of players to free up wages,he said he was doing a lot of the work himself, he was trying to get his tactics across to a lazy unfit squad. 
He’s made mistakes, a GK especially and not sending the two guys back to Manchester but he’s no miracle worker especially with one hand tied behind his back.

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David McCaig
2 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

January recruitment hasn't helped our cause sadly 

 

I certainly thought Stendel would've achieved far more than he has to date 

 

This mess is all on Levein and Budge though. I've absolutely no doubt about that 

I agree that this is on Levein and Budge, but somehow Stendel managed to make us worse.

 

Our last match against St Mirren is in the top ten of most awful Hearts performances I have ever had the misfortune to see.

 

For a must win game, we were horrific and Moore was as bad as anyone.

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Boyce had been on our radar for years and actually got worse with every game he played under Stendel.

 

Sibbick look great until glandular fever.

 

Langer looked truly hopeless, so probably next in line for a contract extension.

 

Avdijaj - I was going to say hasn't kicked a ball for us, but then remembered free kicks v St Johnstone and Hamilton!!

 

Once again who would you have got and what would he have done differently to get a tune of out this bunch?

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David McCaig
2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:


Yes good work you can read Wikipedia. He was regularly poor, had plenty of absolute wallopers on KB calling him a carthorse “never good enough for Hearts” etc etc - until he was age 23 under Laszlo as another poster has pointed out above 

At 23 he was our captain and good enough to be picked for Scotland and be the subject of million pound plus offers.

 

I can't wait for the sudden improvement in Moore. 

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2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s not the easiest window, we were bottom of the league, we had to get rid of players to free up wages,he said he was doing a lot of the work himself, he was trying to get his tactics across to a lazy unfit squad. 
He’s made mistakes, a GK especially and not sending the two guys back to Manchester but he’s no miracle worker especially with one hand tied behind his back.

Did their loan contracts say that was possible?

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East Lothian Jambo
4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Yes it was ridiculous that he signed 2 players he should have known would go down with a fever.

This post is so ridiculous I'm not even addressing it 

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Pasquale for King
Just now, David McCaig said:

I agree that this is on Levein and Budge, but somehow Stendel managed to make us worse.

 

Our last match against St Mirren is in the top ten of most awful Hearts performances I have ever had the misfortune to see.

 

For a must win game, we were horrific and Moore was as bad as anyone.

The performances against Rangers were two of the best we’ve had this season, Hibs away too. Aberdeen at home with ten men. The team had played four games in 11 days and their poor fitness was the main issue versus St Mirren, their attitude possibly at fault too but Stendel can only take a little of the blame for that. 

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Just now, East Lothian Jambo said:

This post is so ridiculous I'm not even addressing it 

Spencie boy , it was your post that was ridiculous..  He signed 2 players who became unavailable to him.  Shit happens.

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Did their loan contracts say that was possible?

Every year long loan deal has a break clause in January. Another stupid question with no knowledge of the subject which you have been told the answer to many times. I could show you a link but I have before and you clearly don’t believe it.

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David McCaig
2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Once again who would you have got and what would he have done differently to get a tune of out this bunch?

 

He had a squad returning to full fitness yet inexplicably managed to make us worse.

 

He had Souttar and Naismith looking like park players.

 

Meshino brilliant against Aberdeen yet warming the bench whilst Moore was preferred to him.

 

Falling out with Berra and Whelan both of whom have quickly rediscovered their mojo.

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East Lothian Jambo
4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I agree that this is on Levein and Budge, but somehow Stendel managed to make us worse.

 

Our last match against St Mirren is in the top ten of most awful Hearts performances I have ever had the misfortune to see.

 

For a must win game, we were horrific and Moore was as bad as anyone.

Every must win game we've failed to win our fans have just shrugged it off and said the same of the next must win only to suffer same fate 

 

I'm not sure about Stendel.  Its easy to say there not his players or they cang fit his style. His task was to achieve more points than 1 of preferably 2 teams from beginning of December until May. With 8 games to go its hard to conclude that he's been any other than a failure 

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2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The performances against Rangers were two of the best we’ve had this season, Hibs away too. Aberdeen at home with ten men. The team had played four games in 11 days and their poor fitness was the main issue versus St Mirren, their attitude possibly at fault too but Stendel can only take a little of the blame for that. 

What you are saying is correct but the teams we can't beat are those who don't come out and play that cost us points and they are all in the bottom half, often "6 pointers".

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4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Every year long loan deal has a break clause in January. Another stupid question with no knowledge of the subject which you have been told the answer to many times. I could show you a link but I have before and you clearly don’t believe it.

You know this for a fact?

Is the break at the discretion of the parent club, the receiving club or both?

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East Lothian Jambo
6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Spencie boy , it was your post that was ridiculous..  He signed 2 players who became unavailable to him.  Shit happens.

Who are you talking about? Sibbick and who else? 

 

January recruitment hasn't helped us improve.  Results surely illustrate that 

 

Who is it your leaping in to defend here? Stendel or just anyone against those with the temerity to suggest the 3rd biggest club in the country might just ought to be doing a little better 

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

 

He had a squad returning to full fitness yet inexplicably managed to make us worse.

 

He had Souttar and Naismith looking like park players.

 

Meshino brilliant against Aberdeen yet warming the bench whilst Moore was preferred to him.

 

Falling out with Berra and Whelan both of whom have quickly rediscovered their mojo.

Souttar was shown up for what he really is, didn’t have Berra holding his hand and sitting back on their own 18 yard line with the whole team defending. 
Naismith isn’t fully fit but wanted to help our and be available for Scotland.

Whelan wasn’t committed to us and now at a lower level.
Berra is finished at this level.

Meshino is lazy and a luxury.

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A_A wehatethehibs
9 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

At 23 he was our captain and good enough to be picked for Scotland and be the subject of million pound plus offers.

 

I can't wait for the sudden improvement in Moore. 


To point you back to my original post, I clearly stated that I don’t think either of them are in Berra’s class. It was simply his age I was talking about, IE not 16-17 like Hickey. 
 

I also pointed out the examples of great servants / club legend cup winners Neilson and Macdonald who also took time to get established. I’d say there’s a lot more chance of the Moore-Brandon types becoming Neilson-Macdonald types, great servants for whom their time in maroon was the peak of their careers. 
 

So now, you’re educated. It takes time for players to develop, sometimes a very long time, so patience is required, you don’t write every player off for not being quite as good as Hickey-Paterson 16 year old stand outs. 

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You know this for a fact?

Is the break at the discretion of the parent club, the receiving or both?

Yes I know this for a fact, everyone does apart from you, both clubs can use the break clause. 

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Pasquale for King
7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

What you are saying is correct but the teams we can't beat are those who don't come out and play that cost us points and they are all in the bottom half, often "6 pointers".

Absolutely, that’s not what he was saying though.

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East Lothian Jambo
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes I know this for a fact, everyone does apart from you, both clubs can use the break clause. 

I'd ignore him mate. Some serious pedantic traits 

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Pasquale for King
10 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Every must win game we've failed to win our fans have just shrugged it off and said the same of the next must win only to suffer same fate 

 

I'm not sure about Stendel.  Its easy to say there not his players or they cang fit his style. His task was to achieve more points than 1 of preferably 2 teams from beginning of December until May. With 8 games to go its hard to conclude that he's been any other than a failure 

I think we need to finish the season to judge that. 

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Pasquale for King
Just now, East Lothian Jambo said:

I'd ignore him mate. Some serious pedantic traits 

I do try to.

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David McCaig
9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The performances against Rangers were two of the best we’ve had this season, Hibs away too. Aberdeen at home with ten men. The team had played four games in 11 days and their poor fitness was the main issue versus St Mirren, their attitude possibly at fault too but Stendel can only take a little of the blame for that. 

Rangers were imploding and we were equally good at Easter Road under Levein.

 

Aberdeen was excellent and Meshino was fantastic... Then came the winter break and Meshino was binned for Moore.

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:


To point you back to my original post, I clearly stated that I don’t think either of them are in Berra’s class. It was simply his age I was talking about, IE not 16-17 like Hickey. 
 

I also pointed out the examples of great servants / club legend cup winners Neilson and Macdonald who also took time to get established. I’d say there’s a lot more chance of the Moore-Brandon types becoming Neilson-Macdonald types, great servants for whom their time in maroon was the peak of their careers. 
 

So now, you’re educated. It takes time for players to develop, sometimes a very long time, so patience is required, you don’t write every player off for not being quite as good as Hickey-Paterson 16 year old stand outs. 

Thanks for the education, but if you think Moore is going to develop into a club legend I think you need some remedial lessons.

 

Brandon has more chance of making it, signs of ability although staggeringly injury prone.

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East Lothian Jambo
2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think we need to finish the season to judge that. 

Agreed. Signs don't look good though 

 

With the architect of this mess still lurking around in the hope that Budge will take pity and create a job for him if dust settles, I dont think we can place too much of this upon Stendel 

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28 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Which is maybe part of the reason why Stendel has been an unmitigated disaster so far!!

 

It's five years since Moore made his first team debut, what is it we are unsure about, that requires another 12 months.

Hahaha unmitigated disaster?
 

What’s been a disaster is the fans that que up to slate a new manager who has walked into one of the worst run clubs in Britain and had to work with one of the worst assembled squads in Britain. The new manager has faced revolt from the senior players because he’s asked them to attend matches when they are injured, told them they have to attend training with the squad if recovering from an injury. He’s had to work with the horrendous coaches left in place by the old manager and deal with said old manager still roaming the halls daily. The new manager has then had to deal with senior pro’s spitting the dummy because the new manager has asked them to get fitter, play in a new formation and has had the audacity to make them actually train. We now have young lads in the squad giving up wages whilst old has been pro’s argue over getting what’s owed to them and not agreeing to wage cuts that’ll save jobs within the club. So he wants to put his trust in Moore and Brandon as they have bought into what he’s been selling, so what. If anyone didn’t believe there was something fundamentally wrong at our club, what we are seeing play out over the proposed wage cuts only rams that home. Give me a side of 11 guys like Moore, Brandon, Henderson, Irving over the rest all day long. Anyone that can’t see that Stendel is making a difference is delusional. It’s a miracle he’s managed to even achieve half what he has with this group of players. 

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1 hour ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Some people will see you as brutal.  The reality is if more fans weren't so willingly accepting of mediocrity and pish we wouldn't have been where we were before lockdown 

 

More vociferous fans would've forced Budge on Levein 18/24 months ago. Indeed they may have made it clear his appointment to begin with was a non starter and saved us 3 years of misery after a failed experiment 


So it’s our fault that we are where we are just now?

 

Thats some logic.

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29 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Hahaha unmitigated disaster?
 

What’s been a disaster is the fans that que up to slate a new manager who has walked into one of the worst run clubs in Britain and had to work with one of the worst assembled squads in Britain. The new manager has faced revolt from the senior players because he’s asked them to attend matches when they are injured, told them they have to attend training with the squad if recovering from an injury. He’s had to work with the horrendous coaches left in place by the old manager and deal with said old manager still roaming the halls daily. The new manager has then had to deal with senior pro’s spitting the dummy because the new manager has asked them to get fitter, play in a new formation and has had the audacity to make them actually train. We now have young lads in the squad giving up wages whilst old has been pro’s argue over getting what’s owed to them and not agreeing to wage cuts that’ll save jobs within the club. So he wants to put his trust in Moore and Brandon as they have bought into what he’s been selling, so what. If anyone didn’t believe there was something fundamentally wrong at our club, what we are seeing play out over the proposed wage cuts only rams that home. Give me a side of 11 guys like Moore, Brandon, Henderson, Irving over the rest all day long. Anyone that can’t see that Stendel is making a difference is delusional. It’s a miracle he’s managed to even achieve half what he has with this group of players. 

What did he actually achieve apart from cutting  us 4 points adrift at the bottom of the league , a league that probably has he worst level of quality I've witnessed since following Hearts . 

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Pasquale for King
37 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Rangers were imploding and we were equally good at Easter Road under Levein.

 

Aberdeen was excellent and Meshino was fantastic... Then came the winter break and Meshino was binned for Moore.

Thanks for the education, but if you think Moore is going to develop into a club legend I think you need some remedial lessons.

 

Brandon has more chance of making it, signs of ability although staggeringly injury prone.

We were much better at ER under Stendel, didn’t need a deflected shot that was going wide to win.

You completely misunderstand why Meshino was dropped though. 
Still no clue on who you would have taken instead of Stendel or who should replace him?

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Pasquale for King
40 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Agreed. Signs don't look good though 

 

With the architect of this mess still lurking around in the hope that Budge will take pity and create a job for him if dust settles, I dont think we can place too much of this upon Stendel 

Definitely. 

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East Lothian Jambo
8 minutes ago, Squirt said:


So it’s our fault that we are where we are just now?

 

Thats some logic.

Up to a point, yes 

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Pasquale for King
39 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Hahaha unmitigated disaster?
 

What’s been a disaster is the fans that que up to slate a new manager who has walked into one of the worst run clubs in Britain and had to work with one of the worst assembled squads in Britain. The new manager has faced revolt from the senior players because he’s asked them to attend matches when they are injured, told them they have to attend training with the squad if recovering from an injury. He’s had to work with the horrendous coaches left in place by the old manager and deal with said old manager still roaming the halls daily. The new manager has then had to deal with senior pro’s spitting the dummy because the new manager has asked them to get fitter, play in a new formation and has had the audacity to make them actually train. We now have young lads in the squad giving up wages whilst old has been pro’s argue over getting what’s owed to them and not agreeing to wage cuts that’ll save jobs within the club. So he wants to put his trust in Moore and Brandon as they have bought into what he’s been selling, so what. If anyone didn’t believe there was something fundamentally wrong at our club, what we are seeing play out over the proposed wage cuts only rams that home. Give me a side of 11 guys like Moore, Brandon, Henderson, Irving over the rest all day long. Anyone that can’t see that Stendel is making a difference is delusional. It’s a miracle he’s managed to even achieve half what he has with this group of players. 

Good post. 

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David McCaig
6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We were much better at ER under Stendel, didn’t need a deflected shot that was going wide to win.

You completely misunderstand why Meshino was dropped though. 
Still no clue on who you would have taken instead of Stendel or who should replace him?

I'm still bewildered about how Paulo Sergio wasn't deemed worthy of an interview when Levein appointed himself.

 

This season appointing Stephen Robinson should have been a no-brainer!!

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David McCaig
16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We were much better at ER under Stendel, didn’t need a deflected shot that was going wide to win.

You completely misunderstand why Meshino was dropped though. 
Still no clue on who you would have taken instead of Stendel or who should replace him?

We were excellent against both Rangers and Hibs, but my concern is that the tactics we used were atypical to Stendel’s preferences.

 

We achieved those wins by reverting back to a solid 442 with defenders who could defend, and wide midfielders who took the pressure off the full backs to charge forward.

 

At St Mirren we again started 442 and whilst not very good in the First Half, we were pretty solid defensively and went into the break at 0-0.

 

During the interval, Stendel removes Clare for Boyce and we go straight to a gung-ho 433 with full backs charging forward.  After just 5 minutes, we lose possession with the full backs high up the pitch and one simple long ball through the middle of our defence later we are 1-0 down.  

 

The only time we came close to equalising was 5 minutes from time, when Moore kept up his record of never having scored for Hearts by missing an open goal from 5 yards.

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1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes I know this for a fact, everyone does apart from you, both clubs can use the break clause. 

Here is a quote from the loan system rules

 

Players on a season-long loan can be recalled by parent clubs in the January transfer window but only if the two clubs have agreed a recall clause in advance.

 

Now do you know for definite there was an AGREED break clause?

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SectionDJambo
1 hour ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

January recruitment hasn't helped our cause sadly 

 

I certainly thought Stendel would've achieved far more than he has to date 

 

This mess is all on Levein and Budge though. I've absolutely no doubt about that 

It is pretty much considered that the January transfer window is not an easy period to sign good players, unless you’ve got loads of money and are prepared to spend over the odds.

This applies to the elite teams, so no reason why it wouldn’t apply to Hearts. Then add in that we are bottom of the league, and it’s hardly surprising Stendel had to take chance on a couple of players on 6 month deals. Sometimes they work and sometimes not.

Our biggest problem is the past recruitment and wage policy not resulting in good enough players coming into the club over the last 3 years.

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1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely, that’s not what he was saying though.

I didn't say it was, smart boy.

I was pointing out where our difficulty mainly lay ie against the likes of St Mirren and Hamilton.

Try playing the ball instead of the man and dump yout characteristic, srupid negativity.

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David McCaig
1 minute ago, SectionDJambo said:

It is pretty much considered that the January transfer window is not an easy period to sign good players, unless you’ve got loads of money and are prepared to spend over the odds.

This applies to the elite teams, so no reason why it wouldn’t apply to Hearts. Then add in that we are bottom of the league, and it’s hardly surprising Stendel had to take chance on a couple of players on 6 month deals. Sometimes they work and sometimes not.

Our biggest problem is the past recruitment and wage policy not resulting in good enough players coming into the club over the last 3 years.

Boyce is an outstanding player at SPL level and he also had Souttar/Naismith returning after the break.

 

All Stendel had to do was keep us defensively solid and the goals would naturally have come.  Instead we switched to kamikaze all out attack, which saw us leak goals like a sieve, whilst simultaneously having Naismith/Boyce run into each other in overcrowded penalty boxes on a regular basis.

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East Lothian Jambo
3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I didn't say it was, smart boy.

I was pointing out where our difficulty mainly lay ie against the likes of St Mirren and Hamilton.

Try playing the ball instead of the man and dump yout characteristic, srupid negativity.

It's a little rich when you've come on here itching for confrontation 

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East Lothian Jambo
1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Boyce is an outstanding player at SPL level and he also had Souttar/Naismith returning after the break.

 

All Stendel had to do was keep us defensively solid and the goals would naturally have come.  Instead we switched to kamikaze all out attack, which saw us leak goals like a sieve, whilst simultaneously having Naismith/Boyce run into each other in overcrowded penalty boxes on a regular basis.

Yip. Take the Hamilton game at home. Another "must win" game. Down 2 zip inside 20 mins

 

There has been no pragmatism on the part of Stendel. He's utilised a style of play irrespective of whether the personnel at his disposal could execute.  This wasn't a Hail Mary with 10 games to go. He's had a fair chunk of time to overcome mighty St Mirren and Hamilton 

 

Some people think having 5 strikers on the pitch is a sign of a great attacking minded manager.  Its futile if you've nobody to create anything 

 

Langer and Avdijaj have been nothing other than a waste of a salary 

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SectionDJambo
7 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Boyce is an outstanding player at SPL level and he also had Souttar/Naismith returning after the break.

 

All Stendel had to do was keep us defensively solid and the goals would naturally have come.  Instead we switched to kamikaze all out attack, which saw us leak goals like a sieve, whilst simultaneously having Naismith/Boyce run into each other in overcrowded penalty boxes on a regular basis.

I would have to agree with the assessment of the tactics, which he changed when much of the damage was done. He probably thought he had the players available to him, or he tried to get others in who could play his favoured system but couldn’t get them.

Either way, it could be argued that he should have figured out earlier he had to change to a more solid set up.

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Would not give either of them deals unless they are on peanuts as we have too many similar players, all just ok, plus anything Mikey says I tend to disagree with as he is blinkered.

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3 hours ago, Flimsy said:

Preparing for life in the Championship, if true.

 

More like indicates Stendel will be around next season no matter what.

 

These boys will push the more established pro to keep on their toes this is the way it should be.

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David McCaig
1 minute ago, pablo said:

Isn't Henderson's contract running out soon? I'd give him an extension too.

Henderson is a young player that I do think deserves a new deal.  But then he’s only 19, so has 2 years to develop.

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