SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Jingle Bells]

1 hour ago, S Form said:

In the bigger picture, this is simply shaping up as a Rangers v Celtic battle here - the Tims want the league called in their favour and the Huns will do anything to ***k that up for them. It potentially screws up 10 in a row. At the moment, we're depending on Rangers and their acolytes in the league saving us from relegation. BTW, I'm not sure we can depend on Hibs vote in this. As I read the Dempster interview she was being pretty non-commital, saying there was no rush to make decisions but not spelling out which way they would vote.

As I see it too.

 

Fibs will vote as per what their Tic parent club tells them to do.

[Kylejordan]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Here's me thinking it was people dying, that were the biggest losers. At least Sutton's got some perspective. 

None of that matters only that his beloved cheating scum get another title. 
I personally am losing all interest in this league. It will never change. Who honestly cares about the old firm. They are a bunch of money grabbing assholes who only care about themselves and think they are the standard bearer for Scottish football. 
give me a break.  

[hughesie27]

7 minutes ago, Kylejordan said:

Sorry if this has already been quoted but Jesus Christ can the old firm punditry next anymore biased or non relevant. Yes they are the team who misses out the most. 
let’s just forget about every other team. 
I sometimes agree with Sutton but the man a another typical Celtic asslicker. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, Barack said:

Here's me thinking it was people dying, that were the biggest losers. At least Sutton's got some perspective. 

 

2 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

He missed this bit out ..."If only Celtic hating Covid victims would stop dying we could get the season restarted and allow Celtic their tilt at another treble". 

Oh please, take your faux outrage about perspective and the grand scheme of things away. You are on a thread about the future of our game, he will have also been talking about that. Nobody is pretending people aren't dying but the world needs to prepare for the great day when this ends.

Regarding his actual comments he is clearly fishing. Ignore it.

[Jingle Bells]

19 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

10 in a row is a dead duck. It's probably around 9.82 in a row but I'm no mathematician. 

 

Stick that up yer hoops, ya shower of paraffin lamps. 

 

Hopefully the Huns pick up on this, mind you they are as dense as the other lot.

 

Not forgetting that neither has any shame, what so ever.

[IveSeenTheLight]

5 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Can you email that to Doncaster please? 

 

Good post. 

 

That would only result in wasting my time.

Doncaster is not looked upon favourably up here.

I recall seeing him present the youth team with a trophy and he was loudly boo'd.

All stems from the ludicrous Armageddon stance he took I think.

Don't think Doncaster would give one diddly squat about my views 

[SectionDJambo]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

He missed this bit out ..."If only Celtic hating Covid victims would stop dying we could get the season restarted and allow Celtic their tilt at another treble". 

I've normally got some time for Chris Sutton, but he has let himself down hugely by joining in the narrative from Celtic, which has always been all about them not getting the league title, when people are dying. 

Why can't they all wait until these deaths stop before crying about whether they are getting a title or not? The same goes for the SPFL, which seems to being pushed by Celtic into trying to bribe cash strapped clubs into making them champions now.

It's shameful, and once again the Scottish press is silent.

[annushorribilis III]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

 

 

Oh please, take your faux outrage about perspective and the grand scheme of things away. You are on a thread about the future of our game, he will have also been talking about that. Nobody is pretending people aren't dying but the world needs to prepare for the great day when this ends.

Regarding his actual comments he is clearly fishing. Ignore it.

Oh please, are you a Mod ? If not, do one. 

 

Sutton's comments are disgustingly out of touch with what is happening. 

[hughesie27]

Celtic could accept this as 8.8 in a row or whatever it is and still reach 10 in a row. Rangers aren't winning this league anytime soon. I have a bet with @Sooperstar of £100 that they'll get to 20 in a row. For purposes of our bet this will be counting as their 9th title.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Hibs fans desperate for us to be relegated. Claiming if Dempster votes with us they won't buy season tickets! So rather than support your own club with season ticket cash, you would rather Hearts were relegated? They don't even care about the loss of revenue and excitement the derby brings.

They really are roasters on that side of town.

[Leveins Battalion]

Ironically Ann Budge has spent long enough cozying up to everybody in Scottish Football the last few years and now is getting shat on big time 

 

 

**** everybody,which should be Hearts mantra forever more.

 

Unfortunately as well as staff who may well lose their jobs the fans will also suffer after putting so much in this club.

[davemclaren]

34 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s censorship, we are supposed to be a democracy 😜.

All rights have associated costs  🤷🏼‍♂️

[hughesie27]

Meanwhile in the SPFL

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11970952/coronavirus-premier-league-to-give-clubs-advance-payment-to-aid-with-cash-flow

[MMHearts]

The SPFL board originally stated the clubs would be making the decisions as they are a member lead organisation however they are now effectively giving clubs only 2 choices. Vote to get your prize money now and help your club survive (this will mean you’ll be relegating a few clubs but don’t worry about that your club will be ok), or play fair, vote for what you believe to be morally correct and we will withhold your prize money. What club wouldn’t vote to receive their much needed prize money if the resultant decision doesn’t directly affect their club.

That is nothing short of direct bribery and should be deemed as illegal.

Effectively 9 of the 12 clubs majority needed for this to pass however 11 out of 12 needed to ratify league reconstruction. If this vote is passed and we are relegated as a result I will still buy my season ticket and keep my FOH subscription but I am finished with away games.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

33 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Correct.

 

I just don't get the attitude by some so called Hearts fans on here that are champing on the bit to see us relegated.

None of them will be Hearts fans.

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

With respect, hughesie...**** off.

Precious soul.

[Jamboelite]

34 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I actually don't care if it is unlikely or not; we HAVE to call bullshit on this in the courts. Anything else is a dereliction of duty.

But thats a fans view not a business one. 
 

If we have been told we dont have a case im not inclined to want to spend alot of money just to appease, In fans eyes, a justified grievance but not a legal one.

 

In the end we get a double whammy of additional cost from court and massive loss in relegation.

 

If we do have a chance of winning then **** yeah we should.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Jamboelite said:

But thats a fans view not a business one. 
 

If we have been told we dont have a case im not inclined to want to spend alot of money just to appease, In fans eyes, a justified grievance but not a legal one.

 

In the end we get a double whammy of additional cost from court and massive loss in relegation.

 

If we do have a chance of winning then **** yeah we should.

The idea that this is watertight is nonsense. Therefore, a judicial review is the minimum we should seek.

[Weakened Offender]

39 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Correct.

 

I just don't get the attitude by some so called Hearts fans on here that are champing on the bit to see us relegated.

 

People who are saying we should accept it and rebuild aren't champing at the bit to get relegated, you silly man. 

[davemclaren]

34 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I actually don't care if it is unlikely or not; we HAVE to call bullshit on this in the courts. Anything else is a dereliction of duty.

What sort of bullshit are you calling though if you expect to lose? Losing just validates their decision in a court.  I’m all for challenging it in court if we have a reasonable chance of winning but I don’t see the point of throwing away a potential 6 figure sum ( when money is going to be very tight anyway ) on a tilt at a windmill. 

[magicjohnston]

Unfortunately I think the only thing saving us would be league reconstruction. But unfortunately the a-holes Incharge make TV deals around a guaranteed 4 old firm games a season. Any extra teams would scupper this, and therefore the expanded league which would better just won't happen.

Complete nonsense if we get relegated, we might have been poor, but I still believed we could stay up. I hope the club fight this all the way!

 

[jamboozy]

We have to stand up to this, if it happens, if we don’t then we will be shat on forever more. You have to show that we are not pansies that can be bullied any time they feel like.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, davemclaren said:

What sort of bullshit are you calling though if you expect to lose? Losing just validates their decision in a court.  I’m all for challenging it in court if we have a reasonable chance of winning but I don’t see the point of throwing away a potential 6 figure sum ( when money is going to be very tight anyway ) on a tilt at a windmill. 

I didn't say I expect to lose. This is unprecedented by any stretch of the imagination and isn't watertight.

[busby1985]

Why do people keeping asking “if we weren’t bottom, would we care” of course ****ing not, we are bottom tho. Just like if we were top, I’d be furious that our first title in how many years would have a * next to it. I couldn’t give a flying you know what if this is harsh on Partick Thistle, it screws over Falkirk etx etx it screws Hearts so am bothered. I hope the club fight this to the last. 

[3fingersreid]

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

No danger they are going to reveal this. It would have to be leaked these guys cover for each other. Lets face it most of them don't care about us or Partick or any other club threatened with relegation and it's a given that most will vote whatever way Celtic do.

 

I noted the clever way they have suggested the possiblity of discussing the reconstruction of the leagues but only after the vote has been done.

 

So that's a bit like a turkey voting for Xmas. As AB said why can't they just give the clubs a share of the prize money now to help them through this without having to know the final placings. GIve the money out as per the league positions at the moment and adjust later if the games ever get played

You are  correct in that we’ll in all likelihood not find out who voted which way officially , but it would be nice if there was a leak though . 
Yes the decision will be made THEN the leagues would change . 
 

if only the team coming up didn’t have a suitable ground like what benefited another club years ago 

[RENE]

Just now, magicjohnston said:

Unfortunately I think the only thing saving us would be league reconstruction. But unfortunately the a-holes Incharge make TV deals around a guaranteed 4 old firm games a season. Any extra teams would scupper this, and therefore the expanded league which would better just won't happen.

Complete nonsense if we get relegated, we might have been poor, but I still believed we could stay up. I hope the club fight this all the way!

 

The thing is they can 'guarantee' four 4 old firm games a season.   What happens if Sevco are crap and finish seven in the League - do they then organise an extra game for the TV companies?  There can't be anything in the contract stating 'we guarantee four Old FIrm games a season' can there.

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I didn't say I expect to lose. This is unprecedented by any stretch of the imagination and isn't watertight.

Its also incredibly discriminatory as well with scrapping of certain forms of relegation/promotion whilst maintaining others.

[1971fozzy]

No point wasting money if we are advised we don’t have a case.

we then would be better to remember all the clubs that shat on us and never forgive them or dark on their doors again for games. 
Long memories. When we go back up boycott every club that votes it through

 

[EIEIO]

5 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

People who are saying we should accept it and rebuild aren't champing at the bit to get relegated, you silly man. 

Really ? Please explain why then I'm genuinely confused.

[Gambo]

1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Good effort, but I don't believe that would be allowed unless you made the whole stand the same price.

We have different prices in stands, platinum, gold, silver, bronze all in same stand.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, magicjohnston said:

Unfortunately I think the only thing saving us would be league reconstruction. But unfortunately the a-holes Incharge make TV deals around a guaranteed 4 old firm games a season. Any extra teams would scupper this, and therefore the expanded league which would better just won't happen.

Complete nonsense if we get relegated, we might have been poor, but I still believed we could stay up. I hope the club fight this all the way!

 

A 14 team league would still see 4 hate fests. Split after 26 games and anotrher 12 games against your 6 opponents. It might mean one less game against the uglies for some teams though.

[Ribble]

1 minute ago, RENE said:

The thing is they can 'guarantee' four 4 old firm games a season.   What happens if Sevco are crap and finish seven in the League - do they then organise an extra game for the TV companies?  There can't be anything in the contract stating 'we guarantee four Old FIrm games a season' can there.

 

It's an clause that the league setup allows 4 OF games each season, a restructure where only 2 OF games were possible would see a reduction in TV money paid. Viewing figures and advertising for OF games can worth more than 5/6 other games to a broadcaster

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

You are  correct in that we’ll in all likelihood not find out who voted which way officially , but it would be nice if there was a leak though . 
Yes the decision will be made THEN the leagues would change . 
 

if only the team coming up didn’t have a suitable ground like what benefited another club years ago 

There are barely any rules on stadia now since the change from the SPL to SPFL.

[132goals1958]

29 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

It would be 8.79 in a row as it stands.

The chances of Celtic losing the title in the last 8 games would be very long. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

If we cannot complete the season within an acceptable timeframe, I'd give Celtic the title, with an asterisk to denote that the season was curtailed early because of the Pandemic.

There should also probably be laid out that the precedent going forward is that a minimum of 57% of games in a 12 team league (22 games, played (1 home and 1 away)) to determining final league positions, otherwise the season would be null and void.

I'd also agree to a league reconstruction for 1 season to offset those not given the opportunity to resolve final league positions i.e. 14 team leage, 6/8 split after 26 games, 3 teams automatically relegated and 4th bottom to play 2nd top of the championship in a play off.

Then revert to the 12 team league the following season.

 

That is more or less applying the reasonableness standard ie ---what is reasonable in the circumstances. What you have suggested is so patently obviously the least worst solution which only  serves to highlight the ineptness of those at the helm of our game.

[EIEIO]

4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Its also incredibly discriminatory as well with scrapping of certain forms of relegation/promotion whilst maintaining others.

Anyone would think Brechin City were involved at the highest level of SPFL. Oh wait they are.

[IveSeenTheLight]

2 minutes ago, Gambo said:

We have different prices in stands, platinum, gold, silver, bronze all in same stand.

 

So what are the material differences in those seats?

[russ]

If we are relegated I would love to see the club and the fans present a united front. Sell out season tickets and fill the stadium no matter what division we are in. Repay in kind those who voted this through. The club should refuse away tickets and set up a virtual away ticket system allowing fans to purchase one with proceeds going to a Hearts Charity or FOH, whichever they chose. It would give fans something to unite round and show other clubs the amount of money that would have come their way had they not shafted us. Always better when a 'F you' comes with a dose of financial reality.

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

People who are saying we should accept it and rebuild aren't champing at the bit to get relegated, you silly man. 

 

 

Another person who doesn't see the conflict of interest and attempt to make the rules up to fit their self-interest.

 

The rules are you get relegated if you complete your fixtures and are bottom or finish second bottom and lose the play-off.  We have done neither.

[Des Lynam]

8 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

No point wasting money if we are advised we don’t have a case.

we then would be better to remember all the clubs that shat on us and never forgive them or dark on their doors again for games. 
Long memories. When we go back up boycott every club that votes it through

 

 

That all sounds very rangers to be fair. 

[Mikey1874]

 

30 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Not on SPFL Board but their chairman is an SFA vice president and as we know the SFA and SPFL don't concoct things together. 

 

If that's what you were getting at. 

 

Cheers 

 

The list the BBC put up below had Alloa Club Secretary on the SPFL board as Championship representative.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/52218364

[IveSeenTheLight]

2 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

That is more or less applying the reasonableness standard ie ---what is reasonable in the circumstances. What you have suggested is so patently obviously the least worst solution which only  serves to highlight the ineptness of those at the helm of our game.

 

Its not a total winner as you could always argue that there are more teams in the championship that are not given the opportunity to get promoted if they reached the play offs, but as you said, its probably a good reasonable position to take given the effects of the Pandemic

[WalterEgo]

Apologies if this has been covered, but can someone set me straight? If the SPFL can't call the league null and void because it would trigger repayments to the broadcast media, why would voting to shorten it be acceptable? Either way, BT and Sky have had thirty games worth of advertising and subscriptions.

[3fingersreid]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

There are barely any rules on stadia now since the change from the SPL to SPFL.

I know I was just having a wee dig at a poster who has sly digs at us , 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I didn't say I expect to lose. This is unprecedented by any stretch of the imagination and isn't watertight.

I totally agree it’s unprecedented. I’ve no idea how watertight it is but the board needs to get solid legal advice to make a decision on taking any action. The best decision thereafter might be to not challenge it in court but to try and mitigate any impact in some other way.

 

If the club decides, after due Consultation and consideration, that legal action isn’t ‘best’ route I won’t necessarily be blaming them for it. We would need a high level of transparency to judge that though. 
 

[Mikey1874]

27 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Ironically Ann Budge has spent long enough cozying up to everybody in Scottish Football the last few years and now is getting shat on big time 

 

 

**** everybody,which should be Hearts mantra forever more.

 

Unfortunately as well as staff who may well lose their jobs the fans will also suffer after putting so much in this club.

 

Not true 

 

She got kicked out after just one year on  SPFL board. Voted off. 

 

We don't know what relationships she has. Good one with Dempster. Possibly Alan Burrows. Maybe Rangers. 

[Boris5115]

Make no mistake Dungcaster and his mob are chocking to shaft us and bend over to Lawwell . Many clubs will suffer big time without us in the league so they  need to be careful what they wish and vote for. If we are relegated we need to forget about mistakes made this season and back the club to the hilt to ensure a swift return to the top flight. Heart of Midlothian will bounce back for the better in my opinion. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, davemclaren said:

I totally agree it’s unprecedented. I’ve no idea how watertight it is but the board needs to get solid legal advice to make a decision on taking any action. The best decision thereafter might be to not challenge it in court but to try and mitigate any impact in some other way.

 

If the club decides, after due Consultation and consideration, that legal action isn’t ‘best’ route I won’t necessarily be blaming them for it. We would need a high level of transparency to judge that though. 
 

I'm stunned at the second paragraph

 

 

Not really.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, WalterEgo said:

Apologies if this has been covered, but can someone set me straight? If the SPFL can't call the league null and void because it would trigger repayments to the broadcast media, why would voting to shorten it be acceptable? Either way, BT and Sky have had thirty games worth of advertising and subscriptions.

 

BT and Sky have made their final payment. Whether they are due a refund hasn't been discussed.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I'm stunned at the second paragraph

 

 

Not really.

I didn’t think you would be. 

[132goals1958]

6 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Its not a total winner as you could always argue that there are more teams in the championship that are not given the opportunity to get promoted if they reached the play offs, but as you said, its probably a good reasonable position to take given the effects of the Pandemic

 

It is the best option from all the options none of which are ideal.

[WalterEgo]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

BT and Sky have made their final payment. Whether they are due a refund hasn't been discussed.

This from the BBC two days ago:

 

'One of the major problems with null and void is the potential legal and, ultimately, financial implications. If you declare something void, you are essentially saying it didn't happen.

This is the scenario where sponsors and broadcasters are most likely to come looking for money back. The SPFL wants to avoid that at all costs.'

 

I don't get the difference. Why wouldn't the sponsors and broadcasters want money back if the league is shortened?

Edited April 9, 2020 by WalterEgo