Stendel and future squad

[colinmaroon]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Meh more words. Let’s see how this translates into the pitch. 

 

 

And we should just do without words when there is no football.

 

I advise you not to switch on your computer/laptop/phone and just stare at a blank screen and then your meh won't be needed.

[colinmaroon]

3 hours ago, Rizla said:

Oh for the youth & experience of John Robertson & Jimmy Bone.

 

 

Add Sandy Clark to that.

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

11 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

And we should just do without words when there is no football.

 

I advise you not to switch on your computer/laptop/phone and just stare at a blank screen and then your meh won't be needed.

 

Sorry Colin but i have heard manager after manager telling us of their grand plans for too long now.

[TWF]

I would suggest we are now seeing a battle within the media outlets, to see which journalist can come up with the most "eye catching" commentary or dreaming up some interview that was supposed to have exclusivity attached to it. Don't be taken in with all this nonsense , it is only journalists/pundits/commentators trying to hold on to their jobs and printing anything which sells newspapers, follows their media online etc etc. 

[colinmaroon]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Sorry Colin but i have heard manager after manager telling us of their grand plans for too long now.

 

Fair enough but there's always hope that one of them will get it right.   

 

I prefer to think, maybe this time, than write them off in advance.

[Last Laff]

4 hours ago, RonnieG said:

He wont be here next season.   Expect Robbo to be in position.  This assumes we are in the Championship.

Far too obvious RonnieG.

 

Heard it all before re grand plans. Let’s see what actually happens. 

[Cruyff]

I thought this would be the case and tbh, I thought it would be the case for every club in Scotland after this, not just us tbh.

 

Been waiting on us becoming the Scottish Ajax for years but we keep flooding the first team with shite from elsewhere. 

 

As long as we're not in the Championship, I couldn’t care. 

 

Stendel was a good youth coach. Perhaps he stays and coaches our lads into quality first team players. 

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, David McCaig said:

Define playing well?

 

Does he have pace? No

Does he have strength? No

Does he score goals? No

0 in 25 at Hearts

6 in 74 at Forfar and Cowdenbeath

Does he create goals? One assist for Hearts that I can recall.

Could he get a game at Falkirk? No

Did he stand out at Cowdenbeath or Forfar? Not particularly

Does he try his best? Yes

 

Trying your best surely cannot be a reason to award a 22 year old a first team contract.

 

Put it another way, if we release him will he even get a contract from a Championship side.  He spent the first half of the season on loan at Falkirk in League One and couldn’t get near their first team!!

 

i don’t want to be brutal, but Hearts are in the midst of a financial whirlwind, every penny going forward needs to be a prisoner awarding contracts just to be nice is lunacy. 

Jesus ****ing wept. 

[Bunny Munro]

2 hours ago, David McCaig said:

 

Does he create goals? One assist for Hearts that I can recall.

 

I mean, he's assisted two of our higher profile goals of the last wee while.

Bozanic vs rangers to put us in the semi final and Bozanic at Hibs.

 

That's in the last month and without thinking.

 

I'd offer him another year. He'll be on peanuts.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Bunny Munro

[David McCaig]

19 minutes ago, Bunny Munro said:

I mean, he's assisted two of our higher profile goals of the last wee while.

Bozanic vs rangers to put us in the semi final and Bozanic at Hibs.

 

That's in the last month and without thinking.

 

I'd offer him another year. He'll be on peanuts.

I'm giving the assist for the Hibs goal to Boyce for the dummy 😎.

 

The issue about not being a youngster is that he's a million miles away from being good enough to be a regular starter and too old to be one for the future.  I know he's on peanuts but ultimately he would be blocking the pathway for a genuine 17/18 year old youngster..

Edited April 3, 2020 by David McCaig

[Rizla]

2 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Add Sandy Clark to that.

 

 

I’d play them all now.

[stranraer-jambo]

2 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Add Sandy Clark to that.

 

 

 

Agree.

And Sandy Jardine with Craig Levein. 

[Batistuta87]

3 hours ago, HMFC01 said:

You trying running at full pace and closing players down for vast majority of a game and see how long you last. 

He's only 22 he can still add a bit more strength if he's working out during the break.

Scoring goals isn't his job.

He does create chances and he's only just back into the first team recently, hard to judge him on that.  

He was out of position at Falkirk, and possibly out of mind.  

Can't comment on the Cowdenbeath and Forfar much but I would say he's not been lead well to this point.

Yes he is big grafter, which I love!

 

Trying your best most certainly gets you well thought of and should be considered a new contract.

 

I think his best chance to progress is with Hearts and Stendel.  I say give him another year, 23 is the cut off point for a young player.

 

I'm torn about Moore. I don't think his actual ability on the ball is that great, but he is a grafter and will run around pressuring opponents, hassling them into mistakes and generally making it difficult for them to have the time they want on the ball. But that job could really be done by anyone fit and willing enough to just run around for 90mins - what he needs to add to his game is an ability to drive on when he does get hold of the ball: to run at players; to take them on; to get down the wing and get a cross in; to know when to hold up the ball and wait for the overlap from the full back... That's what I'd look for in a winger. I think the shift he put in in the 2nd half of the season has probably earned him a 1yr extension, but looking at other teams in the league, I really don't think he would get into their starting 11 so realistically why should he be getting into ours...

 

[Cruyff]

I think you need guys like Moore. A teams more than their individual parts, you need team players. 90% of football is running about and Moore can do that. 

 

The thing that bothers me with the Academy is that we seem to have quite a few sleight, neat and tidy footballers but no big hard Centerhalfs, ball winning midfielders, Target men, or real, winners or leader types. It's all just about being really technically good and nice on the eye

That is maybe OK at youth level when it's boys v boys and it's all about learning but when it comes to the first team, it's a different box of frogs altoghter. Teams aren't going to let you play nice football, they are going to battle for everything and in this league, lose the physical battle and you'll probably lose the game. 

[HMFC01]

Yeah of course I don't regard him as a current first team player but he's only just got back into the squad and now his progress is halted again.  It Doesn't  help having hapless, useless, careless bunch of players around him.  If you get the right experienced players in that helps.  Of course I would say we need a proper first team winger in the squad.  I think Avdijaj was suppose to be just that but that's halted 

Edited April 3, 2020 by HMFC01

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

I'm torn about Moore. I don't think his actual ability on the ball is that great, but he is a grafter and will run around pressuring opponents, hassling them into mistakes and generally making it difficult for them to have the time they want on the ball. But that job could really be done by anyone fit and willing enough to just run around for 90mins - what he needs to add to his game is an ability to drive on when he does get hold of the ball: to run at players; to take them on; to get down the wing and get a cross in; to know when to hold up the ball and wait for the overlap from the full back... That's what I'd look for in a winger. I think the shift he put in in the 2nd half of the season has probably earned him a 1yr extension, but looking at other teams in the league, I really don't think he would get into their starting 11 so realistically why should he be getting into ours...

 

 

Sounds like Wayne Foster but without the goals. 

[HMFC01]

We have Petkov and Baur as the biggest center halfs but unless they progress or show satisfactory ability they wont be making it thus far.  We do have some ball winning midfielders but same as before they have to prove to be good enough.  Don't think we have any target strikers left, Keena was about the closest we had.

 

We do need hard working squad players.  We really need first team players to lead the way though.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by HMFC01

[The Brow]

5 hours ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Some people might think you're being somewhat brutal. I do think we need to seriously review our squad and understand why we've been the worst side in the top flight for 18 months

 

The squad does require a significant overhaul. I like the endeavor that Moore shows. I'm not convinced the quality is there if I'm honest.  Obviously had some personal difficulties and he deserves credit for forcing his way back into contention. At 22 you are correct in saying he's no longer really a "youngster"

 

We must be careful about revisionist ideas about what this squad is capable of. They've shown themselves to be capable of some of the worst things many of us can recall witnessing 

 

I think league reconstruction is likely 

 

This is where I stand. Absolutely nobody bar Smith has shown themselves to be worthy of keeping this season. Its been absolute ****ing drivel for well over a year now and Stendel hasnt exactly set the heather alight. 

 

They could all leave and I would barely manage a shrug of the shoulder. The Killie and St Mirren games, the Livi 5-0 game. Horrific and I can barely recall three shitter performances. We can all blame Levein as much as we like but we're well under way with Stendel and hes pulled two absolute ****ing atrocious performances out the bag to go with two decent ones. The rest have been crap and we're easily beaten. 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 hours ago, David McCaig said:

Define playing well?

 

Does he have pace? No

Does he have strength? No

Does he score goals? No

0 in 25 at Hearts

6 in 74 at Forfar and Cowdenbeath

Does he create goals? One assist for Hearts that I can recall.

Could he get a game at Falkirk? No

Did he stand out at Cowdenbeath or Forfar? Not particularly

Does he try his best? Yes

 

Trying your best surely cannot be a reason to award a 22 year old a first team contract.

 

Put it another way, if we release him will he even get a contract from a Championship side.  He spent the first half of the season on loan at Falkirk in League One and couldn’t get near their first team!!

 

i don’t want to be brutal, but Hearts are in the midst of a financial whirlwind, every penny going forward needs to be a prisoner awarding contracts just to be nice is lunacy. 

 

Moore has shown pace and strength in his few games IMO.

[East Lothian Jambo]

32 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

This is where I stand. Absolutely nobody bar Smith has shown themselves to be worthy of keeping this season. Its been absolute ****ing drivel for well over a year now and Stendel hasnt exactly set the heather alight. 

 

They could all leave and I would barely manage a shrug of the shoulder. The Killie and St Mirren games, the Livi 5-0 game. Horrific and I can barely recall three shitter performances. We can all blame Levein as much as we like but we're well under way with Stendel and hes pulled two absolute ****ing atrocious performances out the bag to go with two decent ones. The rest have been crap and we're easily beaten. 

 

 

There is frankly nothing worth keeping in that squad. There may be a few exceptions but quite honestly their collective performance has been a disgrace over a sustained period of time. 

 

Anything would've been an improvement after Levein as that shitshow had become unbearable long since. No matter what way you cut it though, Stendel has not delivered 

 

Once we get through this incredibly difficult period there will need to be some very brutal decisions made. I'm not sure we have the personnel at any level at the club to make such decisions 

 

We need to learn lessons and ensure nothing like this case happen again. That may require the removal of many if not most of those considered key at the club. 

 

That performance in Paisley cant be forgotten.  Those players simply had to win that game and they were a ****ing disgrace 

[Clerry Jambo]

2 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

There is frankly nothing worth keeping in that squad. There may be a few exceptions but quite honestly their collective performance has been a disgrace over a sustained period of time. 

 

Anything would've been an improvement after Levein as that shitshow had become unbearable long since. No matter what way you cut it though, Stendel has not delivered 

 

Once we get through this incredibly difficult period there will need to be some very brutal decisions made. I'm not sure we have the personnel at any level at the club to make such decisions 

 

We need to learn lessons and ensure nothing like this case happen again. That may require the removal of many if not most of those considered key at the club. 

 

That performance in Paisley cant be forgotten.  Those players simply had to win that game and they were a ****ing disgrace 

Your last paragraph sums up this squad and why very few people will believe we can turn it round if we have to play remaining matches

[East Lothian Jambo]

1 minute ago, Clerry Jambo said:

Your last paragraph sums up this squad and why very few people will believe we can turn it round if we have to play remaining matches

That's it in a nutshell mate. If we do resume this season there is nothing I've seen over last 18 months to suggest we'd turn this around in remaining 8 games 

 

We had best hope for league reconstruction.  Alternatively we accept our fate and undertake the most brutal action across the entire club personnel 

 

Relegation would be brutal but it may be what is required to cleanse the place 

[pointon]

I really hope I do not have to witness the majority of these charlatans get an opportunity to pull on a Hearts strip again

[john5698]

I think those getting on Moore's back should have a look at the improvement in the last few games particularly the Hibs and Rangers games.

 

He does a lot of work tracking back and Stendel looks as though he rates him.

 

Bearing in mind the young lad said he had problems after the death of his father did he not.

 

 

[David McCaig]

54 minutes ago, john5698 said:

I think those getting on Moore's back should have a look at the improvement in the last few games particularly the Hibs and Rangers games.

 

He does a lot of work tracking back and Stendel looks as though he rates him.

 

Bearing in mind the young lad said he had problems after the death of his father did he not.

 

 

I get that he has had an awful time and I would love him to prove me wrong, but regardless of any improvement v Hibs/Rangers he was truly woeful at St Mirren and looked every inch a lower league player.

[East Lothian Jambo]

7 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I get that he has had an awful time and I would love him to prove me wrong, but regardless of any improvement v Hibs/Rangers he was truly woeful at St Mirren and looked every inch a lower league player.

He was not alone that night 

[David McCaig]

Just now, East Lothian Jambo said:

He was not alone that night 

That’s true!!

[john5698]

7 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I get that he has had an awful time and I would love him to prove me wrong, but regardless of any improvement v Hibs/Rangers he was truly woeful at St Mirren and looked every inch a lower league player.

So you have based your opinion on that one game when everyone was crap, also bearing in mind the lad had an injury at Easter Road and has had a lot of game time which he has not been used too. Not saying he will be a regular but I like his effort which is more than I can say for more than half of the rest of them.

[David McCaig]

14 minutes ago, john5698 said:

So you have based your opinion on that one game when everyone was crap, also bearing in mind the lad had an injury at Easter Road and has had a lot of game time which he has not been used too. Not saying he will be a regular but I like his effort which is more than I can say for more than half of the rest of them.

No... its based on 25 bang average games for Hearts and 70 odd bang average games out on loan.

 

He’s now the same age as Neil McCann was when he signed for Hearts, which I know is an unfair comparison, but realistically he’s not in the same class as Sam Nicholson or even Billy King.

 

He’s a modern day Stuart Callaghan or Robbie Sloan, the latest David Smith.

 

No issues with his work rate, but it would be utter insanity to give him a first team contract at 22, he’s not good enough for Hearts now and will never be good enough for Hearts in the future.  How far have our standards and expectations dropped that far that Moore would be considered a Hearts starter?

Edited April 3, 2020 by David McCaig

[john5698]

3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

No... its based on 25 bang average games for Hearts and 70 odd bang average games out on loan.

 

He’s now the same age as Neil McCann was when he signed for Hearts, which I know is an unfair comparison, but realistically he’s not in the same class as Sam Nicholson or even Billy King.

 

He’s a modern day Stuart Callaghan or Robbie Sloan, the latest David Smith.

 

No issues with his work rate, but it would be utter insanity to give him a first team contract at 22, he’s not good enough for Hearts now and will never be good enough for Hearts in the future.  How far have our standards and expectations dropped that far that Moore would be considered a Hearts starter?

OK, I get you don't like the lad. I didn't say he would be a starter.

[East Lothian Jambo]

8 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

No... its based on 25 bang average games for Hearts and 70 odd bang average games out on loan.

 

He’s now the same age as Neil McCann was when he signed for Hearts, which I know is an unfair comparison, but realistically he’s not in the same class as Sam Nicholson or even Billy King.

 

He’s a modern day Stuart Callaghan or Robbie Sloan, the latest David Smith.

 

No issues with his work rate, but it would be utter insanity to give him a first team contract at 22, he’s not good enough for Hearts now and will never be good enough for Hearts in the future.  How far have our standards and expectations dropped that far that Moore would be considered a Hearts starter?

I suspect you're bang on 

 

Irving won't make it either. Just too slow 

 

If people think Moore and Irving can take us forward standards have sunk lower that I thought 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

I suspect you're bang on 

 

Irving won't make it either. Just too slow 

 

If people think Moore and Irving can take us forward standards have sunk lower that I thought 

Irving doesn’t need pace where he plays, just speed of thought to make the right passes and the composure, confidenxe and skill to execute them, all if which he has shown a fair bit IMO. Very promising player.

[East Lothian Jambo]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Irving doesn’t need pace where he plays, just speed of thought to make the right passes and the composure, confidenxe and skill to execute them, all if which he has shown a fair bit IMO. Very promising player.

Perhaps if he could add urgency to compensate for lack of pace. Heading for lower league in Scotland I believe 

[Kidd’s Boots]

I've said a few times that I had been impressed by the partnership that Hickey and Moore were developing down the left before Hickey picked up his hamstring injury.  The work rate, understanding, interchanging and movement was really quite good. The same could be said for Clare and Henderson on the right before MS was moved back to RB  in the formation change. I agree that the end product wasn't always there from the young boys, but again given time with DS, I think he can so much more out of them.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Kidd’s Boots

[ramrod]

I'm assuming he'll be targeting a good few youths during the window to bring in . 

Most of ours are miles away atm. 

Should mean a lot of the jokers are moved on hopefully. 

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

I suspect you're bang on 

 

Irving won't make it either. Just too slow 

 

If people think Moore and Irving can take us forward standards have sunk lower that I thought 

You and McCaig are ****ing clueless 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Perhaps if he could add urgency to compensate for lack of pace. Heading for lower league in Scotland I believe 

 

Do you really miss slagging off our own players that much that you still feel the need to run down our better youngsters during a pandemic the club may not survive. Whatever gets you through it I suppose.

[East Lothian Jambo]

49 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Do you really miss slagging off our own players that much that you still feel the need to run down our better youngsters during a pandemic the club may not survive. Whatever gets you through it I suppose.

FFS 

[East Lothian Jambo]

57 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You and McCaig are ****ing clueless 

 

Opinions. They're allowed to differ 

 

Hickey will make it. Moore, Henderson & Irving Hearts will be their limit 

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Opinions. They're allowed to differ 

 

Hickey will make it. Moore, Henderson & Irving Hearts will be their limit 

It was the same for Gary Mackay and Craig Levein, not a bad limit. 

[East Lothian Jambo]

10 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

It was the same for Gary Mackay and Craig Levein, not a bad limit. 

Levein only limited due to injuries 

 

Neither were part of Hearts sides that won 4 from 36 and treated as proper talent 

 

 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Levein only limited due to injuries 

 

Neither were part of Hearts sides that won 4 from 36 and treated as proper talent 

 

 

It's not the young lads fault that the senior players are piss poor. They've not exactly had a safe introduction into first team football with senior players that have their backs on the park, have they? 

 

Moore and Irving have shown enough to be in a Hearts first team squad, they've already managed to have good games and compete at this level and they can improve. I don't think that's even up for debate tbh because it is true. 

 

Not every lad that comes from the Academy is going to be good enough to play in the EPL or English Championship, for some, Hearts will be their level and that's fine. It is upto them now to push on and get better because they only have one or two years before it is time up but you've got to give them that chance.

 

We can't just punt every single laddie that comes through after 10-20 games because they're not world beaters. Some guys develop later, some burst onto the scene and look ****ing immense and then they fizzle off into mediocrity or the Juniors. It's really a state of mind more than anything else. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

46 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Levein only limited due to injuries 

 

Neither were part of Hearts sides that won 4 from 36 and treated as proper talent 

 

 

 

Gary Mackay when breaking through like Irving was part of a Hearts side that finished 10th in the Premier Division, then 3rd and 2nd in the old First Division.

[Cruyff]

8 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Gary Mackay when breaking through like Irving was part of a Hearts side that finished 10th in the Premier Division, then 3rd and 2nd in the old First Division.

nice one. 

[East Lothian Jambo]

10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Gary Mackay when breaking through like Irving was part of a Hearts side that finished 10th in the Premier Division, then 3rd and 2nd in the old First Division.

Correct. Relegated with 18 points on the old 2 points for a win format. Won 6 games in that 36 game season and finished bottom 

 

Better than our current 4 wins in 36 return 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Correct. Relegated with 18 points on the old 2 points for a win format. Won 6 games in that 36 game season and finished bottom 

 

Better than our current 4 wins in 36 return 

 

I'm not comparing seasons FFS. I'm saying some of our best youngsters have broken through in some very poor, underperforming Hearts sides. Irving has looked very promising in an underperforming, low on confidence team with some iffy midfielders around him. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he could flourish in a more stable system with better players around him.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[colinmaroon]

4 hours ago, Cruyff said:

It's not the young lads fault that the senior players are piss poor. They've not exactly had a safe introduction into first team football with senior players that have their backs on the park, have they? 

 

Moore and Irving have shown enough to be in a Hearts first team squad, they've already managed to have good games and compete at this level and they can improve. I don't think that's even up for debate tbh because it is true. 

 

Not every lad that comes from the Academy is going to be good enough to play in the EPL or English Championship, for some, Hearts will be their level and that's fine. It is upto them now to push on and get better because they only have one or two years before it is time up but you've got to give them that chance.

 

We can't just punt every single laddie that comes through after 10-20 games because they're not world beaters. Some guys develop later, some burst onto the scene and look ****ing immense and then they fizzle off into mediocrity or the Juniors. It's really a state of mind more than anything else. 

 

Crucial!

 

So many youngsters come into the first team, for example, start well and fade away.

 

King, Carrick, Smith, McWhittie, etc.

[David McCaig]

9 hours ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Opinions. They're allowed to differ 

 

Hickey will make it. Moore, Henderson & Irving Hearts will be their limit 

I still think that Irving and Henderson have potential... They are also two years younger than Moore, which is a huge factor.

 

Irving clearly needs to improve and become more consistent, but the Aberdeen game in particular suggests that he has some real quality.

[David McCaig]

3 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Crucial!

 

So many youngsters come into the first team, for example, start well and fade away.

 

King, Carrick, Smith, McWhittie, etc.

King was never quite good enough.

Carrick was improving all the time until destroyed by injuries.

Smith was never even close to being good enough.

McHattie was the victim of a horror tackle by Kenny Miller.