England v Scotland

[alicante jambo]

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

I was at that game and also the ‘Keegan’ 3-1 defeat, two years later.

 

Thankfully, I was too young to be allowed to go to Wembley in 1975 for the 5-1 hammering.

 

What’s the time?  5 past Kennedy.  

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

I was 6 at the time and proper believed Scotland ruled the world. Gutted when we got beat by Brazil the month after I think unless my memory deserts me, though we did get a 1-1 draw in Argentina, black and white pictures, interrupted by breaks in transmission!

[John Findlay]

As I boy growing up in the 70s. Was 7 in 1970 and 16 in 1979 it was great fun seeing Wembley awash with saltires and lion ramparts. Only three victories. Hampden 74 2-0, Hampden 76 2-1, Dalglish putting the baw through Clemence's legs. Wembley 77 1-2 McQueen and Dalglish the scorers.

[john5698]

went to Wembley 75, 77, 79 and 81, stopped going once they changed it to a Wednesday. 77 was just unbelievable. all the games were like an invasion.

[graygo]

In those days England supporters just about couldn't get a ticket for the game, ground was packed out with Scots.

 

Changed in the 80's as they started to find their St George cross flags and got a bit jingoistic.

[been here before]

33 minutes ago, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

 

The English never went to Wembley, they couldnt get tickets.

 

Even when the Scots fans were banned by Ted Crocker at the FA in 1981 they still took the place over...

 

 

 

 

Theres a good story about Gordon McQueen standing in the Wembley tunnel in 81 ready to walk out onto the pitch. As he walked out alongside England player Mick Mills who was looking at the sea of tartan, saltires and Lion Rampants shouted over to McQueen " I can smell the whisky from here". 

 

Sime of the pics from 77 are brilliant. Im sure theres ine of Rod Stewart getting carried about the pitch. Im off to have a rummage.

Edited April 1, 2020 by been here before

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I was at the 2-1 win then at the 3-1 defeat too. Maybe we met on the Wembley pitch, mon ami although the odds would been 85,000 to 1. 

 

I was behind the goals where McQueen scored quite high up yet I still got onto the pitch. Took some turf home in my tartan tammy. My Scotland strip probably could have walked home itself....

 

Great memories.

Were you the guy with the bit of grass hingin’ out his bunnet?

 

If so, I remember you.

[Hector Riva]

The good old days. 3 times Iv been to the old Wembley for Scotland games. 

The best was the Centurion bus from Corstorphine.

Left the Cenny at 10pm Stopped for a pish stop at the Maybury 10.05pm lol

 

[alicante jambo]

59 minutes ago, Hector Riva said:

The good old days. 3 times Iv been to the old Wembley for Scotland games. 

The best was the Centurion bus from Corstorphine.

Left the Cenny at 10pm Stopped for a pish stop at the Maybury 10.05pm lol

 

Now that is brilliant pmsl.

[been here before]

Some good old footage here.. 2.29 boy with Bay City Rollers gear getting in for free!! 🤤 **** doing that!

 

 

 

Heres Rod...

 

 

 

Polis dealing with it...

 

 

Choring the pitch...

 

 

 

Flares, long hair, Bonnie Scotlan flag, double denim and platrorm trainers... this dandy ticks every 70s box...

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by been here before

[airthjambo]

37 minutes ago, john5698 said:

went to Wembley 75, 77, 79 and 81, stopped going once they changed it to a Wednesday. 77 was just unbelievable. all the games were like an invasion.

I was at these 4 as well, stopped for same reason, great memories.

[Nookie Bear]

42 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Current pandemic circumstances notwithstanding, I believe that England v Scotland should still be played regularly and the various authorities should do everything necessary to make this happen.

 

It's the absolute Crown Jewel Granddaddy of international football, and is at least as important as Ashes cricket.

 

Whether Scotland might regularly be competitive at the moment is a different argument, but the game simply must take place once more.

They could have a charity game and give tickets to NHS staff. 

[john5698]

20 minutes ago, airthjambo said:

I was at these 4 as well, stopped for same reason, great memories.

We first started going down on a Friday night, then a Friday morning, then a Thursday night, last time it was an 8.00 am  departure on the Thursday morning. I used to work with S&N in those days and would save up my beer vouchers for the six months before we went, buy them off folk that didn't drink, women who's husbands didn't drink (if there is such a thing) basically anyone who had them that didn't want them.

 

There was a busload of almost 50 of us each time, I used to arrange for cheap meals and reduced drink prices with pub managers on the way down. The guy that organised it took money of us each week and stuck it in a building society account, he worked with the Co-Op and any bits and pieces that were getting thrown out he would use as prizes when we had a piss stop. Chalk marks on the tyre of the bus to indicate the prize winners. Bloody brilliant days and trips.

[jamboiain13]

49 minutes ago, been here before said:

Some good old footage here.. 2.29 boy with Bay City Rollers gear getting in for free!! 🤤 **** doing that!

 

 

 

Heres Rod...

 

 

 

Polis dealing with it...

 

 

Choring the pitch...

 

 

 

Flares, long hair, Bonnie Scotlan flag, double denim and platrorm trainers... this dandy ticks every 70s box...

 

 

 

pish soaked flares at that! 🙂

 

 

[Kidd’s Boots]

I remember the '77 game as a six year old watching it on telly... unbelievable!!! The '78 World Cup was my first real tournament that I followed religiously. I have two stand out memories on the run up to the start. My mother worked for Tennetts Caledonian when they lived in Roseburn, and I will never forget her bringing home an official team photograph signed by Bruce Ricoh and Ally McLeod for me. Sadly, I'll also never forget the perms in that photograph..... here were some poddles in that!! From memory, Rough, McQueen, Hartford, Souness, Derek Johnstone, and Burns. There may have been others, feel free to name and shame 

[TyphoonJambo]

I joined the RAF the week before the 1981 game. I had been assured by the recruiters that weekends would be free and i had a ticket for the game at Wembley. 

However, our Cpl was a vicious, horrible, one eyed Jock hating *******. He made us  (only the 7 Jocks in our flight) march up and down on the parade square from 3 till 5 before letting us knock off for tea under the warning that "should he get home to find that Scotland had won, we would be back at 6".

We won, Robertson penalty i think, so more marching up and down. Happy days 😭😊

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

I was 6 at the time and proper believed Scotland ruled the world. Gutted when we got beat by Brazil the month after I think unless my memory deserts me, though we did get a 1-1 draw in Argentina, black and white pictures, interrupted by breaks in transmission!

Beat Chile 4.2 on the same tour.

 

I think it was reported we gave Brazil a right good game.

Edited April 1, 2020 by DETTY29

[Locky]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

Current pandemic circumstances notwithstanding, I believe that England v Scotland should still be played regularly and the various authorities should do everything necessary to make this happen.

 

It's the absolute Crown Jewel Granddaddy of international football, and is at least as important as Ashes cricket.

 

Whether Scotland might regularly be competitive at the moment is a different argument, but the game simply must take place once more.

Don't think the fixture has that same spark anymore, although that could just be because of the lack of them over the last 20 years.

 

I don't really care too much about the national team. The 2-2 game that people go on about so much from a few years ago, I didn't even watch. But I just watched the highlights of the 1977 game and felt something that I never feel now with Scotland. We were something back then. A small, but mighty nation, filled with top players. Now we're the epitomy of a diddy nation. Sad, but true.

[Morgan]

1 hour ago, been here before said:

Some good old footage here.. 2.29 boy with Bay City Rollers gear getting in for free!! 🤤 **** doing that!

 

 

 

Heres Rod...

 

 

 

Polis dealing with it...

 

 

Choring the pitch...

 

 

 

Flares, long hair, Bonnie Scotlan flag, double denim and platrorm trainers... this dandy ticks every 70s box...

 

 

 

Fourth picture down - Donald Park (on the right) as an accomplice to the pitch choring.

[graygo]

Was always a sore point that i had never been to Wembley before they stopped playing us so I just had to go when we drew them in the Euros, it was to be their last ever game there.

Of course we beat them with a Don Hutchison header and they hastily arranged a friendly before knocking the place down.  

[Forever Hearts]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

Was always a sore point that i had never been to Wembley before they stopped playing us so I just had to go when we drew them in the Euros, it was to be their last ever game there.

Of course we beat them with a Don Hutchison header and they hastily arranged a friendly before knocking the place down.  

Your memory is playing tricks on you. The last game at the old Wembley was a World Cup qualifier which Germany won 1-0. 

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

Was always a sore point that i had never been to Wembley before they stopped playing us so I just had to go when we drew them in the Euros, it was to be their last ever game there.

Of course we beat them with a Don Hutchison header and they hastily arranged a friendly before knocking the place down.  

Which the Germans duly won and Keegan resigned in a post match interview.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

39 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Beat Chile 4.2 on the same tour.

 

I think it was reported we gave Brazil a right good game.

Rivelino I think was the difference. Wasn't a great Brazil team, by their standards the World Cup the following year was maybe a C+ but still, a time when Scotland was a nation to be feared.

 

Apart from Peru and Iran of course

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 hours ago, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

I think the ratio was something like 80000 Scots to 20000 English, they didn't like attending these games back then

 

[ArcticJambo]

In 1988, last of annual games, although by then they'd chucked in Colombia to make three-nation Rous Cup, I reckon that the Scots made up half of the 70k attendance.  The English were definitely attempting to reclaim their home ground by then! There was loads of trouble all over the place both inside and outside the ground. The following year at Hampden, they brought up a sizeable group that caused a lot of trouble and the fixture was discontinued.

 

That saturday before the game in Trafalgar Square was so much fun. After losing an early goal, it was all downhill.  Still, pleased I got to experience it. 

[Locky]

48 minutes ago, sassenach said:

 

I'm the same as you with the England national team. I've never felt able to identify with the many big time Charlies in the team over the years, and while England may be considered to be less diddy than Scotland they are still not going to win anything any time soon. I can't imagine that I will ever be bothered with actually going to an England game, and I rarely watch them on TV.

 

Certain games are special though, because of history if nothing else. So England v Scotland or Germany at football (probably unrequited by the Germans), v Wales or Scotland at Rugby, v Australia at Test cricket - these are huge historic fixtures, unsurpassed by anything else in the World.

 

I understand that I'm looking at this from an Anglo-centric point of view, but it's a fact that the organised form of all of these sports developed within the UK. Other countries have their big fixtures, but we are the originals. 

Definitely a case for it being a generational thing. I was born after the annual internationals had been scrapped, so I've only been a live for half a dozen of these games.

 

I look at games from the 70's and 80's and think what gave it an even bigger magnitude, was the face that the English domestic game was ruled by Scots too. A lot of English fans probably really disliked that more that we had players they'd love to have in their team. Their was probably a bit more jealousy there on us.

 

Now, I feel there's so much self loathing both sides of the border, that the rivalry isn't quite there as much. At least in football terms. I think the Scotland vs England rivalry of the last decade has been fuelled by sheer politics, and that's where I'm out. I find people who allow their lives to be ruled by political hatred and views the worst kind. I've a few good English mates, and if it was purely football, I'd get right involved, but I could never hate England the way same do.

[The Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Locky said:

Don't think the fixture has that same spark anymore, although that could just be because of the lack of them over the last 20 years.

 

I don't really care too much about the national team. The 2-2 game that people go on about so much from a few years ago, I didn't even watch. But I just watched the highlights of the 1977 game and felt something that I never feel now with Scotland. We were something back then. A small, but mighty nation, filled with top players. Now we're the epitomy of a diddy nation. Sad, but true.

I have the same feeling. I've never been to a Scotland game and really have no intentions to, national team does nothing for me. I wish them to win but that's it.  Back in the day it we had a squad of very good players who ultimately fail to deliver on the big stage, now we just fail cause we have shite.

[martoon]

First memory is watching the 1975 game at Wembley. Stewart Kennedy flying through the air for no particular reason then swinging on the post and bar like a monkey as the goals flew in.

 

Favourite was 1977. Watched the game with an English kid who was visiting his Scottish granny next door. I told him Scotland would win, he laughed, but we did.

 

I've never been to a Scotland game other than the Youth Cup semi v. Portugal in 1989. That Taylor report guy would have been appalled at the overcrowding. Particularly so soon after Hillsborough. Claustrophobic stuff from the shed, the school end and all the way to the McLeod St. entrance/exit.

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said:

Your memory is playing tricks on you. The last game at the old Wembley was a World Cup qualifier which Germany won 1-0. 

 

Having checked, it's worse than I thought. 4 games they played after us.

 

Ooops.

[Independence]

Wonderful memories. I used to go down with mates the Saturday before Wembley to Wales to watch Wales v Scotland  then on to London for a week. It was the British Championships held over a week at the end of every season. It was a week long party. It was wonderful watching 90,000+ Scots descend on London as the week went in. At Wembley 5 times to see England v Scotland. Mind you the Wales v Scotland game at Anfield when we beat them 2-0 in a WC qualifier was even better. Wales home game and they moved it to Annfield to make more money. It ended up with about 55,000 Scots and 5,000 Welsh fans. It was a home game for Scotland!

[DETTY29]

4 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

Rivelino I think was the difference. Wasn't a great Brazil team, by their standards the World Cup the following year was maybe a C+ but still, a time when Scotland was a nation to be feared.

 

Apart from Peru and Iran of course

Yeah,

 

They still ended up 3rd.

 

Sure they scored one if not two peaches against Italy in the 3rd 4th play off.

 

Remember Holland v. us and Germany scoring crackers.

 

Peru too

 

 

[John Findlay]

15 minutes ago, Independence said:

Wonderful memories. I used to go down with mates the Saturday before Wembley to Wales to watch Wales v Scotland  then on to London for a week. It was the British Championships held over a week at the end of every season. It was a week long party. It was wonderful watching 90,000+ Scots descend on London as the week went in. At Wembley 5 times to see England v Scotland. Mind you the Wales v Scotland game at Anfield when we beat them 2-0 in a WC qualifier was even better. Wales home game and they moved it to Annfield to make more money. It ended up with about 55,000 Scots and 5,000 Welsh fans. It was a home game for Scotland!

If memory serves me correctly there was a small band of Welsh supporters in the top right of the Kop if you were in it or top left if you looked from the rest of the ground. None in the Anfield Road end. Watch that end surge when Dalglish scores his cracker with his head.

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, Locky said:

Definitely a case for it being a generational thing. I was born after the annual internationals had been scrapped, so I've only been a live for half a dozen of these games.

 

I look at games from the 70's and 80's and think what gave it an even bigger magnitude, was the face that the English domestic game was ruled by Scots too. A lot of English fans probably really disliked that more that we had players they'd love to have in their team. Their was probably a bit more jealousy there on us.

 

Now, I feel there's so much self loathing both sides of the border, that the rivalry isn't quite there as much. At least in football terms. I think the Scotland vs England rivalry of the last decade has been fuelled by sheer politics, and that's where I'm out. I find people who allow their lives to be ruled by political hatred and views the worst kind. I've a few good English mates, and if it was purely football, I'd get right involved, but I could never hate England the way same do.

Come of it ! 

Since we've had our own parliament people in Scotland are more concerned with what we do. 

Scottish independence has nothing to do with hating England it's about us. 

There is less hatred between the nations now than then. 

Back in the old days we used to sing charming little ditties like ' we hate Jimmy Hill, he's a poof' 

Where's yer bracelet Bobby Moor ? 

And just to ram home the point a lovely little number called ' we ****ing hate England and repeat and repeat. 

Try that stuff nowadays and there would be bans and fines all over the place. 

 

[Locky]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

 

Point taken, but I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

I've posted a few times on this thread already, and I can honestly say that politics has not entered my head. It's just sport to me.

 

Like you say, probably a generational thing, but I'm glad I'm of the older generation if that's the case.

Definitely sport to me too, but sadly the younger generations seem to feel sheer animosity towards England IMO. I feel like I've only seen the ugly side of nationalism in recent years.

[Morgan]

26 minutes ago, Locky said:

Definitely sport to me too, but sadly the younger generations seem to feel sheer animosity towards England IMO. I feel like I've only seen the ugly side of nationalism in recent years.

Agree with you here, Locks.

 

People in general, young folk in particular, jump on any available bandwagon to be edgy/ cool/ controversial.

 

It’s probably not real animosity, it’s faux animosity in a purely ‘look at me, I’m doing what I'm supposed to do’ type fashion.

 

Basically, keeping ‘in’ with the ‘in crowd’.

 

 

[annushorribilis III]

9 hours ago, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

Thousands routinely getting in without tickets (loads of my mates did it in 79, it was so easy ) and pretty much every game you'd see news coverage of fans climbing in through windows onto the stair wells to get in. Police were powerless to act there was so many at it. 

 

I went to  the last Home International game (1986 ?) : it was absolutely grim. 

[martoon]

15 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Agree with you here, Locks.

 

People in general, young folk in particular, jump on any available bandwagon to be edgy/ cool/ controversial.

 

It’s probably not real animosity, it’s faux animosity in a purely ‘look at me, I’m doing what I'm supposed to do’ type fashion.

 

Basically, keeping ‘in’ with the ‘in crowd’.

 

 

 

I remember a few mates and I cycling down to North Berwick in 1981, exactly a week after Scotland won at Wembley. On the way back, just after Aberlady, we saw an older lad, about 17, who lived near us. He was on foot, tartan clad, and on the last leg of hitching all the way back from London. Eric his name was and he was a Hearts fan; probably still is. 

 

We had a wee collection for him, which didn't come to much out of the pockets of us 13/14 year olds, but it was enough for a bus/train to Edinburgh. 

 

Don't think I ever saw that lad again. Probably still on the road. 

 

Funny how things and people you've completely forgotten suddenly come back when your memories jogged. 

 

I think his surname was Flynn and he stayed in the Hermitage Park area if anyone recognises the name? 

 

Edit: sorry Morg, accidentally attached this post to yours.

Edited April 1, 2020 by martoon

[Locky]

9 hours ago, Morgan said:

Agree with you here, Locks.

 

People in general, young folk in particular, jump on any available bandwagon to be edgy/ cool/ controversial.

 

It’s probably not real animosity, it’s faux animosity in a purely ‘look at me, I’m doing what I'm supposed to do’ type fashion.

 

Basically, keeping ‘in’ with the ‘in crowd’.

 

 

You're right, that's what probably makes it worse.

[Angel eyes]

19 hours ago, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

The Robertson game I think it was that one that Ted Croker tried to ban Scotland fans from attending and they’d a banner “so you tried to ban us,Mr Croker” held up place was full of Scots think it was round about that time.

[John Findlay]

1981 game I was onboard Hms Intrepid and had to listen to commentary from the BBC world service, I think we were alongside in Aarhus Denmark at the time. From the commentary it sounded like England were allover us but we got the penalty, John Robertson of Notts Forest game stuck it away and I went radio rental in the canteen flat.

[Boris]

 

[Boris]

 

[TorinoJambo]

20 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

I think the ratio was something like 80000 Scots to 20000 English, they didn't like attending these games back then

 

I had mates who lived in London then. They used to say that English guys would get tickets and sell them to Scots, sort of bowing to the inevitable that the crowd would be eighty percent Scots. Don't forget that most Scots ran "wembley clubs" for two years and had loads of cash for the trips.

[jambo east anglia]

I saw Scotland at Wembley in 71, 77 and 79.  From what I remember it was much easier for us exiles to get tickets in those bygone days because each English County FA was provided with an allocation .  I used to get mine by writing to Norfolk FA .

 

As an aside, I got the train down to the 79 game and on the way back the fans in the bar were joined by George Burley and John Wark, on their way back to Ipswich (can't remember whether either played in the game itself).

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, jambo east anglia said:

I saw Scotland at Wembley in 71, 77 and 79.  From what I remember it was much easier for us exiles to get tickets in those bygone days because each English County FA was provided with an allocation .  I used to get mine by writing to Norfolk FA .

 

As an aside, I got the train down to the 79 game and on the way back the fans in the bar were joined by George Burley and John Wark, on their way back to Ipswich (can't remember whether either played in the game itself).

Yes, Wark opened the scoring to actually put us 1 up in 79 

[Independence]

On 01/04/2020 at 20:57, luckydug said:

Come of it ! 

Since we've had our own parliament people in Scotland are more concerned with what we do. 

Scottish independence has nothing to do with hating England it's about us. 

There is less hatred between the nations now than then. 

Back in the old days we used to sing charming little ditties like ' we hate Jimmy Hill, he's a poof' 

Where's yer bracelet Bobby Moor ? 

And just to ram home the point a lovely little number called ' we ****ing hate England and repeat and repeat. 

Try that stuff nowadays and there would be bans and fines all over the place. 

 

Spot on! Nobody should hate anyone. I certainly don't hate England. They all be our best market when independence arrives and we will need them to continue to buy our goods. It was very bad back then and loving your own country should never mean hating your neighbour. However, just like derbies Hearts v H1B5 , Scotland v England will always be special.

[luckydug]

12 hours ago, Independence said:

Spot on! Nobody should hate anyone. I certainly don't hate England. They all be our best market when independence arrives and we will need them to continue to buy our goods. It was very bad back then and loving your own country should never mean hating your neighbour. However, just like derbies Hearts v H1B5 , Scotland v England will always be special.

You only have to look at the way the UK Nations have come together to battle this Pandemic. There is no one-upmanship just a desire to work together to get us through this. 

It's like war time we are genuinely all in it together (unless you are a footballer). 

Once it's all over those of us who wish Scotland's Independence will still have that opinion but hatred 'never'. 

Devolution has made us realise we are responsible for our own fate. 

We can't blame others anymore. 

[Independence]

Hatred never but self determination, always. You are right this is  a global war , 'United Nations'. One world v infection. 

[colinmaroon]

On 01/04/2020 at 13:17, alicante jambo said:

Just watched highlights of a game from 1977 when the fans invaded the wembley pitch. Ffs there must have been more scots at that game. Also the game john robertson scored the penalty place looked packed with scots. Some cracking players we had too.

 

 

At both games!

 

And strangely, the '77 game was the best of the two as a fan on the terrace.