The fall of unionism.

[Justin Z]

5 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What to do you mean? Bad? 

 

He was just drunk trolling, per usual. Reported, not taken down, so whatever. Feeding him is not worth it, and your thread is actually connected to the reality of the polling and data, unlike his fantasy.

[jumpship]

On 30/03/2020 at 23:06, Roxy Hearts said:

I lost faith in UK a long time ago when Thatcher was in power. When was your moment? 

 

This is for the opposite view from the rise and fall of the SNP. Which was fairly stupid. 

Afghanistan and Iraq wars. 

 

Everyone was against military intervention.  Westminster poodled to America and that idiot Bush. 

 

10's of 1000's of innocent men, women and children have died because of it, and continue to die.. where are the people who backed it, voted for it... 

 

Do a little bit of reading and you will find Westminster is build on mass murder. 

[jambogaza]

On 31/03/2020 at 08:44, jambogaza said:

2014 was the moment for me, in the run up.

I have always been a labour man and still wish to return my vote to them. But I will continue to vote SNP until we get the second referendum we deserve.

 

What I'd add is that after the 2014 vote, my interest in it cooled as I more or less moved on and accepted the outcome of the referendum. But since the Brexit vote and the consequential chaos, it has reignited it all for me.

[leginten]

6 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

Says the soak. You ever posted sober?

 

Any excuse...

 

 

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, jumpship said:

Afghanistan and Iraq wars. 

 

Everyone was against military intervention.  Westminster poodled to America and that idiot Bush. 

 

10's of 1000's of innocent men, women and children have died because of it, and continue to die.. where are the people who backed it, voted for it... 

 

Do a little bit of reading and you will find Westminster is build on mass murder. 

I thought Afghanistan was legit, Iraq was criminal .

[jack D and coke]

14 hours ago, jumpship said:

Afghanistan and Iraq wars. 

 

Everyone was against military intervention.  Westminster poodled to America and that idiot Bush. 

 

10's of 1000's of innocent men, women and children have died because of it, and continue to die.. where are the people who backed it, voted for it... 

 

Do a little bit of reading and you will find Westminster is build on mass murder. 

Since the invasion Iraq has more dead than we lost in both world wars. 
Great Britain. 

[The Brow]

On 03/04/2020 at 03:39, Zlatanable said:

Don't take this personally @Roxy Hearts but you are bad at starting threads. 

 

I see social isolation isnt stopping your meth supply. 

 

Look forward to your pished replies at 1am tonight 

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, The Brow said:

 

I see social isolation isnt stopping your meth supply. 

 

Look forward to your pished replies at 1am tonight 

 

[GinRummy]

On 03/04/2020 at 22:27, jumpship said:

Afghanistan and Iraq wars. 

 

Everyone was against military intervention.  Westminster poodled to America and that idiot Bush. 

 

10's of 1000's of innocent men, women and children have died because of it, and continue to die.. where are the people who backed it, voted for it... 

 

Do a little bit of reading and you will find Westminster is build on mass murder. 

It’s a really good point. Independent Scotland would have meant we’d have had nothing to do with those wars. We all seem to focus on the economy during these debates but our own defence policy would be far better and save Scottish lives. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

It’s a really good point. Independent Scotland would have meant we’d have had nothing to do with those wars. We all seem to focus on the economy during these debates but our own defence policy would be far better and save Scottish lives. 

It’s an argument you’ll hear a lot from unionists tbh. They like war. 
Getting our troops sent to places we shouldn’t be and coming back in bags or with their limbs missing is what we should want apparently. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s an argument you’ll hear a lot from unionists tbh. They like war. 
Getting our troops sent to places we shouldn’t be and coming back in bags or with their limbs missing is what we should want apparently. 

One of those not all unionists are in favour of war but it’s all unionists that are in favour of war type arguments. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by GinRummy

[Ainsley Harriott]

On 04/04/2020 at 09:26, ri Alban said:

I thought Afghanistan was legit, Iraq was criminal .

I don't get the whole legal or illegal war thing. Not sure who gets to decide when invading someone is right or not and who are they to decide. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I don't get the whole legal or illegal war thing. Not sure who gets to decide when invading someone is right or not and who are they to decide. 

The dossier on their WMD was a total fabrication. The grounds - we were told - to remove Saddam Hussein. An illegal war on a false premise. 
Tbh I kind of agree on Afghanistan too. A load of absolute shite an all. 
It’s all the lies when we’re there too, the precision bombing etc what a pack of lies that is. I’m sure if tables were turned we’d not be looking forward to any precision bombing of our cities.

Edited April 5, 2020 by jack D and coke

[jumpship]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The dossier on their WMD was a total fabrication. The grounds - we were told - to remove Saddam Hussein. An illegal war on a false premise. 
Tbh I kind of agree on Afghanistan too. A load of absolute shite an all. 
It’s all the lies when we’re there too, the precision bombing etc what a pack of lies that is. I’m sure if tables were turned we’d not be looking forward to any precision bombing of our cities.

I can't find it anymore but I remember reading a piece from an American general who said Scottish independence would seriously weaken Westminster's ability to wage war... 

 

That's a f-ing great thing. 

Scottish independence would more than likely save thousands of innocent lives. 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I don't get the whole legal or illegal war thing. Not sure who gets to decide when invading someone is right or not and who are they to decide. 

Not like that, just justified and unjustified.

[ri Alban]

700 years tomorrow.

Edited April 5, 2020 by ri Alban

[manaliveits105]

since smokies were invented 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

I feel this. I started the thread called 'The Rise and Fall of the SNP', and even though it genuinely isn't an anti-Scottish Independence thread (just look at the name of it), I get it in the neck, a lot of the time. 

 

I am not against Scotland becoming independent as an event. 

But if it is going to happen, then it ought to happen with the best outcome we can manage.

 

Since 2013ish , the word Scotland has become a thing. Yet Scotland, the place, is not that thing.

Saying Scotland, is a failure to speak to the people that live in Scotland.

 

Scotland isn't a place, really. It's as made up as the United Kingdom. 

 

I am sorry if you hate and despise me because I disagree with you on this.

(my thread was about a political party, and it was before the pandemic)

 

I'm flawed and human. 

 

 

Your thread was absolutely about independence, you can't separate the party and the cause, and it's riddled with fatuous arguments and bullshit as you jump about trying to prove the snp are done / they'll be done soon / anything negative you can think of once proven you're indulging in wishful thinking.

 

You get it in the neck because you don't debate in good faith but pretend you do, and as I told you in PM that's a huge turn off. Some of my favourite posters on here are unionists and I've had some really interesting conversations on the subject where I've come to understand their perspective and why it's different.

You're not interested in that, you're just trying to win.

 

Don't you get bored with the whole troll > wide eyed innocent cycle? I certainly do.

[ri Alban]

700 years today since the declaration of Arbroath, pity their ancestors betrayed their souls. 

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

nice to see you, I think cos I like your profile pic. (I might have confused you with someone else)

 

I struggle with your good faith thing again. but thats you, and maybe other people. 

 

You know what, your opinion is not me, at all. 

 

 

He's bang on. You must be delusional.

[Unknown user]

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

[manaliveits105]

To the Krankies no surrender 

whilst 100 true Scots survive 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

To the Krankies no surrender 

whilst 100 true Scots survive 

No surrender, too late ya shite bags.

[ri Alban]

12 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

To the Krankies no surrender 

whilst 100 true Scots survive 

Tick Tock  Scotland will be a state again, but a matter of time.

True Scot is something you'll never be, Ever!

[Justin Z]

8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

You know what, your opinion is not me, at all.

 

Yeah, it is you. 100% attention seeking narcissist. @Smithee once PM'd me after we disagreed on some topic or another because he was concerned he'd come off as dismissive of my views/feelings, and he'd been told he needed to work on that (hope you don't mind me sharing that, mate). In actual fact I felt the opposite and didn't feel the least bit dismissed, but it was the intent that mattered and showed that Smithee does actually post and argue in good faith and care about learning.

 

You hide behind your autism in order to garner sympathy, you make shit up out of whole cloth and then when presented with actual facts, you brand the posters as ideologues or blinkered. You go out of your way to taunt people. You called me anti-semitic because I feel laws should apply equally to everyone, even actual anti-semites. How dare I criticise the Labour canvassers who were breaking the law by lying to people about whether Neale Hanvey would be on the ballot. Pathetic.

 

Ram it. And next time you decide to leave Kickback, for the love of God, stay gone.

[Justin Z]

7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

To the Krankies no surrender 

whilst 100 true Scots survive 

 

[Pans Jambo]

9 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

To the Krankies no surrender 

whilst 100 true Scots survive 

Get yer nose oot Boris's chuff.

[H2]

 

I've yet to see a case that demonstrates the tangible benefits of of Independence. I should point out to the "Freedom" fighters that hating the Tories is not tangible.

[Justin Z]

18 minutes ago, H2 said:

I've yet to see a case that demonstrates the tangible benefits of of Independence. I should point out to the "Freedom" fighters that hating the Tories is not tangible.

 

As the old saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Roxy Hearts]

36 minutes ago, H2 said:

 

I've yet to see a case that demonstrates the tangible benefits of of Independence. I should point out to the "Freedom" fighters that hating the Tories is not tangible.

Every other country in the world. Germany, France, Australia, Canada etc, etc. 

[H2]

26 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

As the old saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

very True!

[H2]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Every other country in the world. Germany, France, Australia, Canada etc, etc. 

That's intangible.

[Boof]

13 hours ago, ri Alban said:

700 years today since the declaration of Arbroath, pity their ancestors betrayed their souls. 

 

Descendants, surely?

[GinRummy]

56 minutes ago, H2 said:

 

I've yet to see a case that demonstrates the tangible benefits of of Independence. I should point out to the "Freedom" fighters that hating the Tories is not tangible.

I’d doubt you’d see a huge difference to begin with. Both sides of the coin telling lies in the last Indy ref campaign made it all a bit confusing.  
 

Scottish politics are completely incompatible with uk politics though. You know that aye?

[Roxy Hearts]

21 minutes ago, H2 said:

That's intangible.

Try thinking out the box. It's liberating! 

[H2]

13 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Try thinking out the box. It's liberating! 

PMSL, You'll be asking me to sign a blank contract nest!

 

[H2]

23 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’d doubt you’d see a huge difference to begin with. Both sides of the coin telling lies in the last Indy ref campaign made it all a bit confusing.  
 

Scottish politics are completely incompatible with uk politics though. You know that aye?

Politics is the same the world over, ego trips and power seeking. Conning people and appealing to what thinks will get the votes. Insulting and trying to make everyone believe that thee opposition are incompetent bad people.  No difference there between Westminster and Holyrood. The most obvious difference that emanates from Holyrood is the constant cry "It's the Tories fault". The incompatibility is because people want to make it incompatible.

[Roxy Hearts]

9 minutes ago, H2 said:

PMSL, You'll be asking me to sign a blank contract nest!

 

I presume you mean "next". No contracts, just our established country regaining it's self governance and choosing it's destiny. 

[GinRummy]

22 minutes ago, H2 said:

Politics is the same the world over, ego trips and power seeking. Conning people and appealing to what thinks will get the votes. Insulting and trying to make everyone believe that thee opposition are incompetent bad people.  No difference there between Westminster and Holyrood. The most obvious difference that emanates from Holyrood is the constant cry "It's the Tories fault". The incompatibility is because people want to make it incompatible.

While I actually agree with most of that,  the SNP couldn’t be more different from the Tories. I don’t trust the Tories and I don’t trust the SNP (Who could trust a party who’s policies are just designed to give them the best chance of the ONE policy they really care about).

 

Regardless of trust though, the current situation won’t continue. The Scottish people just won’t allow the Tories to continue and they are the only party in the UK capable of winning a UK election for the foreseeable future. It’s like one party will win easily up here and one will win easily down there. It just won’t and can’t go on. Another referendum is a certainty. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by GinRummy

[Boris]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

While I actually agree with most of that,  the SNP couldn’t be more different from the Tories. I don’t trust the Tories and I don’t trust the SNP (Who could trust a party who’s policies are just designed to give them the best chance of the ONE policy they really care about).

 

The Scottish electorate seem to?

 

If anything the SNP have shown they can govern, otherwise why would they continue to be elected? They are trying to show that they can run things.

 

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Regardless of trust though, the current situation won’t continue. The Scottish people just won’t allow the Tories to continue and they are the only party in the UK capable of winning a UK election for the foreseeable future. It’s like one party will win easily up here and one will win easily down there. It just won’t and can’t go on. Another referendum is a certainty. 

 

 

Don't disagree with that.

 

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

The Scottish electorate seem to?

 

If anything the SNP have shown they can govern, otherwise why would they continue to be elected? They are trying to show that they can run things.

 

Don't disagree with that.

 

 

There are still too many things they don’t have control over to say they can govern imo. The get out seems to be to blame Westminster for anything that doesn’t go right but take credit for anything that does. 
 

As I said earlier on in the thread, I think people will be sorely disappointed when independence does happen and there’s not a great deal of difference to the average man on the street. I do think they’ll make a huge effort with the poorest and most vulnerable in society though and I just hope there’s the budget to do that. 

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

There are still too many things they don’t have control over to say they can govern imo. The get out seems to be to blame Westminster for anything that doesn’t go right but take credit for anything that does. 

 

But if they aren't in control, then seems reasonable to blame those who are when those things don't go right? What have they taken credit for that wasn't in their remit?

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

As I said earlier on in the thread, I think people will be sorely disappointed when independence does happen and there’s not a great deal of difference to the average man on the street. I do think they’ll make a huge effort with the poorest and most vulnerable in society though and I just hope there’s the budget to do that. 

Some may well be, others may be pragmatic. Personally I don't think it would be a walk in the park, but seems a better alternative to rotten Tory overlordship.

[GinRummy]

12 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

But if they aren't in control, then seems reasonable to blame those who are when those things don't go right? What have they taken credit for that wasn't in their remit?

Some may well be, others may be pragmatic. Personally I don't think it would be a walk in the park, but seems a better alternative to rotten Tory overlordship.

Yes it would be better than the Tories, I’ve no doubt but it’s the level of change, economically, that can be achieved. There’ll be no hard border and we’ll be competing with England in many ways. Sweeping changes to our tax and benefit system are needed but where the money coming from? You can’t hammer the rich because they’ll just go and live in England. You raise VAT and it effects the poor more. How much can an overhaul of business rates really raise? Council tax could be changed but it already charges heavily for those fortunate to live in expensive houses. 
 

re your first paragraph, health and education have been devolved for quite some time. If I were going to live in England what difference do you think I’d notice in my families health or children’s education?
 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by GinRummy

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Boof said:

 

Descendants, surely?

Aye, them anaw.

[Deodato]

On 31/03/2020 at 00:08, luckydug said:

Maggie Thatcher did a great deal for the SNP cause.

Let us nor forget who helped put Thatcher into power, which coincides with your point - I think.

 

Or shall we brush that under the carpet?

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Deodato said:

Let us nor forget who helped put Thatcher into power, which coincides with your point - I think.

 

Or shall we brush that under the carpet?

Who? Labour! Get yourr facts right before letting yer belly rubble.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ri Alban

[XB52]

7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

(is it the case you are all just talking to yourselves though, which is the most truthful statement about Scottish Nationalism a person could make?)

That must be the most ironic post on here ever. You complaining about people talking to themselves😃😃

[jambogaza]

It is interesting to see tensions arise again within the EU over how to handle the coronavirus and the economic impact - the old North/South divide resurfacing.

 

They'll come through it in my view as despite their differences, most would be anxious at the idea of economic protectionism and will certainly be put off breaking away by the exit the UK is most likely about to take.

 

If anything, current tensions within the EU might make the terms on which the UK leave even more difficult.

Edited April 9, 2020 by jambogaza

[Space Mackerel]

On 06/04/2020 at 21:24, GinRummy said:

There are still too many things they don’t have control over to say they can govern imo. The get out seems to be to blame Westminster for anything that doesn’t go right but take credit for anything that does. 
 

 

 

That is a poor excuse for saying you don't understand Devolution and who is responsible for what.

[Deodato]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Who? Labour! Get yourr facts right before letting yer belly rubble.

 

Oh dear. 

 

History lesson: is that it was the eleven SNP MPs  in the Commons in 1979 that pushed the no confidence motion in
Jim Callaghan's government. Margaret Thatcher knew she could win once she saw the SNP were on her side of this particular battle. The maths proved right as ten of the eleven SNP MPs voted with her. Really sorry I failed to brush this under the carpet, it must be something to do with the brush not removing what is clearly stuck to the floor. 

 

Let us forget and pretend it never happened and carry on blaming Maggie and anyone who is English for Scotland's woes