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Diego Maradona film.


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queensferryjambo
3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


He single handedly beat England. 😁

 

It would have been funnier if he had put it in with both hands though ;) 

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IveSeenTheLight
4 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

A lot of that, however, could be down to how good Serie A was and how difficult it was to score goals in that league so probably not a fair comparison.


I think that the modern game is far more physically athletic and much better defensively coached than back then.

To think what Messi and Ronaldo have done in the modern game and for the length they have is truly staggering.

 

Maradona had a will and desire to win arguably surpassing all in his era, but I’m not convinced he would have been as successful in the modern game.

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Just watched it. Fascinating stuff. 2 personalities and a very tragic story in the end. Exactly why I don’t understand why anybody would wish for celebrity status. Fek that.

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14 hours ago, John Findlay said:

86 Argentinian winning team was imho far superior to the 90 Argentinian that reached the final playing for the most part Turgid football. 

Football all about opinions. For me Pele is still the greatest player I've ever seen.

Pele! I'll give him one thing, he's better at missing than Maradona. He's famous for 3 non goals. Banks save, Halfway miss and round the keeper and Putting it pass the post. He is also ridiculed by other Brazilian footballer for counting goals against Under 10 teams. :rofl:

 

Also, The second goal against England, who else could do that. Messi? and Ronaldo?(No not CR7).

 

Maradona, Messi, Zico, Platini, and Matthaus are the  best I've seen. And King Kenny the best Scotsman.

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Magnificent player. For me he is behind Pele, Ronaldo (Port) and Messi though.

 

Slightly over rated imo but nowhere near as over rated as George Best.

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Fozzyonthefence
7 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:


I think that the modern game is far more physically athletic and much better defensively coached than back then.

To think what Messi and Ronaldo have done in the modern game and for the length they have is truly staggering.

 

Maradona had a will and desire to win arguably surpassing all in his era, but I’m not convinced he would have been as successful in the modern game.


He would have been even better now with the extra protection he would get from referees.  Some of the treatment he used to get didn’t even get yellow cards - these would be reds now.

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IveSeenTheLight
29 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


He would have been even better now with the extra protection he would get from referees.  Some of the treatment he used to get didn’t even get yellow cards - these would be reds now.

 

I do accept that point and saw it raised earlier, however I still remain unconvinced.

Maradona was a tenacious, fast footed player player, that was well ahead of the opposition (at the time) with a low centre of gravity, amazing close ball control and brilliant dribbling ability. His main skill was the chop to send players the wrong way.

Individual players / teams do not defend in the same way nowadays and he would find it a lot tougher (in my opinion) to be as individual as he was.

 

He would no doubt, still be a great, great player, just not convinced he would achieve what the likes of Ronaldo and Messi have achieved

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John Findlay
3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Pele! I'll give him one thing, he's better at missing than Maradona. He's famous for 3 non goals. Banks save, Halfway miss and round the keeper and Putting it pass the post. He is also ridiculed by other Brazilian footballer for counting goals against Under 10 teams. :rofl:

 

Also, The second goal against England, who else could do that. Messi? and Ronaldo?(No not CR7).

 

Maradona, Messi, Zico, Platini, and Matthaus are the  best I've seen. And King Kenny the best Scotsman.

Luckily I've forgotten more about football than you will ever know.

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1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I do accept that point and saw it raised earlier, however I still remain unconvinced.

Maradona was a tenacious, fast footed player player, that was well ahead of the opposition (at the time) with a low centre of gravity, amazing close ball control and brilliant dribbling ability. His main skill was the chop to send players the wrong way.

Individual players / teams do not defend in the same way nowadays and he would find it a lot tougher (in my opinion) to be as individual as he was.

 

He would no doubt, still be a great, great player, just not convinced he would achieve what the likes of Ronaldo and Messi have achieved


Messi and CR7 have always played for top club sides surrounded by other great players. Could they have achieved what Maradona did and go to an unfashionable club that had never won a title before and drag them to two Serie A titles in what was back then the best and toughest league in world football? Something they had never done before or since? And when competing against great northern Italian clubs like Juve and Milan who were full of stars in every position? I'm honestly not so sure they could have. Plus his performances in that 86 World Cup were amazing. Messi or CR7 have never come close to matching his brilliance at a WC.

 

Comparing players from different eras is difficult because it is such a different game now. Maradona often had to play on dry hard surfaces thar resembled a farmers field. He had to put up with far rougher treatment from hard as nails defenders who were allowed to get away with a lot more back then. 

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11 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:


I think that the modern game is far more physically athletic and much better defensively coached than back then.

To think what Messi and Ronaldo have done in the modern game and for the length they have is truly staggering.

 

Maradona had a will and desire to win arguably surpassing all in his era, but I’m not convinced he would have been as successful in the modern game.

if you watch some of the assaults back then, any forward minded player must have been far more concerned about their safety which could affect their confidence quite dramatically. He got on with it. I think this should be factored into any comparison.

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IveSeenTheLight
17 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

if you watch some of the assaults back then, any forward minded player must have been far more concerned about their safety which could affect their confidence quite dramatically. He got on with it. I think this should be factored into any comparison.

 

I accept that.

The biggest factor he'd need to consider is the mental one and highly likely he would have been better supported now than then.

All if's and buts though, nothing can be proven so on that basis, as great as he was, he's still behind Messi and Ronaldo in my opinion 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
12 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I accept that.

The biggest factor he'd need to consider is the mental one and highly likely he would have been better supported now than then.

All if's and buts though, nothing can be proven so on that basis, as great as he was, he's still behind Messi and Ronaldo in my opinion 

Glad you have posted this utter pish. What Maradona did for Argentina compared to Messi, as someone rightly posted, Maradona did all of this under extreme duress, compared to the modern era, where its gone soft. Not just the physical treatment but anti football in general.

 

Maradona carried a team with far less talent around him than Messi has had in his international career.

 

Cant believe people are even debating it, there is no debate

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1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Glad you have posted this utter pish. What Maradona did for Argentina compared to Messi, as someone rightly posted, Maradona did all of this under extreme duress, compared to the modern era, where its gone soft. Not just the physical treatment but anti football in general.

 

Maradona carried a team with far less talent around him than Messi has had in his international career.

 

Cant believe people are even debating it, there is no debate

The transformation of Napoli was extraordinary from absolutely nowhere. Not one title but two. Nothing against Messi but he struggled in a poor Argentina team and also let it show through clear body language during games

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Rogue Daddy
On 21/03/2020 at 23:59, Zlatanable said:

His name was Toto Schillaci...

...bit off topic, but I remember 'Motty' referring to Schillaci as 'Italy's answer to Steve Bull....' in the '90 World Cup. Just about coughed up a lung! What a feckin plumb!

Planning on watching this documentary tonight. Loved Maradona!

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Could Messi have turned Napoli around in such dramatic fashion and overturned established northern giants like Juve & Milan? 

 

His performances with Argentina when he is on the whole surrounded with a weaker set of players than when at Barca would suggest it's unlikely. 
 

Not just Maradona but I'd actually argue that other great players from his era like Zico and Platini were at least as good as Ronaldo and Messi as far as natural talent goes. Zico for one had more natural talent than Ronaldo. And for me Platini's performances at Euro 84 remain the best I've seen from any player at a WC or Euros. He was aided by a fantastic fab 4 of a midfield though with Tigana, Giresse and Luis Fernandez alongside him.

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IveSeenTheLight
39 minutes ago, RedCity said:

Could Messi have turned Napoli around in such dramatic fashion and overturned established northern giants like Juve & Milan? 

 

Napoli, turn around was amazing, but it was not solely down to Maradona.

There were other great players in that team, internationals to boot.

They had Careca and Giordano up front and later a young Gianfranco Zola for their 2nd title.

Alemeo another Brazillian international gave defensive midfield cover

De Napoli and Bagni were also great Italian Internationals in the Napoli side

 

Maradona no doubt stepped them up remarkably, but it wasn't a one man show. 

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IveSeenTheLight

Just to add, Maradona was restrospectively awarded two Ballon D'Ors.

In 1986 and 1990.

 

Cruyuff and Van Basten won it 3 times.

Platini won it 3 years in a row 83-85 and Messi has won it 6 times (4 in a row at one point 2009-2012)

 

If Maradona was considered to be the Greatest Of All Time, why was he awarded it only twice.

Why was Platini deemed better before 86, with Gullit 87 and Van Basten (88,89) deemed better between Maradona's awards?

 

Maradona is rightly regarded as one of the greats, but just that, one of the greats, not the greatest of all time

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Ballon Dors for me are not the primary way to determine who is greater. I think Michael Owen and Kevin Keegan won it too. I don't take those awards too seriously. Remember in the years that Platini won it Maradona had a bad time with injuries in 2 of those seasons whilst at Barca. Platini played in a great Juve team full of Italian WC winners and Boniek as well. And also a French team with one of the all time great midfield quartets which no doubt helped his cause.

 

Maradona never really had the luxury of playing in an all star team. In his peak years he was playing for a club always regarded as a big underdog against far richer clubs with better players in most positions bar the one he operated in.

 

The greatest player of all time is a matter of opinion. In my experience the vast majority say either Pele, Maradona or Messi. Not too many stray from one of those three that's my experience anyway. For reasons I've already explained I go with Maradona. He would be looked after and managed so much better today both on and off the field than he ever was in his era. With the less roughhouse treatment style of today and much better pitches he would light up world football. In my opinion anyway.

 

 

 

 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Just to add, Maradona was restrospectively awarded two Ballon D'Ors.

In 1986 and 1990.

 

Cruyuff and Van Basten won it 3 times.

Platini won it 3 years in a row 83-85 and Messi has won it 6 times (4 in a row at one point 2009-2012)

 

If Maradona was considered to be the Greatest Of All Time, why was he awarded it only twice.

Why was Platini deemed better before 86, with Gullit 87 and Van Basten (88,89) deemed better between Maradona's awards?

 

Maradona is rightly regarded as one of the greats, but just that, one of the greats, not the greatest of all time

I would worry more about your club if I were you.

 

If Maradona was playing in this era, he would win it every year. I think you need to identify of the last decade also who you are comparing to Platini Gullit and Van Basten, contradictory to your efforts to take away from Maradona, he broke these players dominance. 

 

The players you quoted at Napoli as no one man show, as good as they are, seriously? 

 

We are talking about a genius, not good or very good, genius, to stop that Milan team, that's what it took

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IveSeenTheLight
31 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I would worry more about your club if I were you.

 

If Maradona was playing in this era, he would win it every year. I think you need to identify of the last decade also who you are comparing to Platini Gullit and Van Basten, contradictory to your efforts to take away from Maradona, he broke these players dominance. 

 

The players you quoted at Napoli as no one man show, as good as they are, seriously? 

 

We are talking about a genius, not good or very good, genius, to stop that Milan team, that's what it took


What has my club got to do with this discussion?

Desperation Sir Gio.

 

I mentioned Platini, Gullitt and Van Basten only in the context of they were Ballon D’Or winners around the same time.

I didn’t mention Cruyff who also won it three years in a row nor Pelé who was Retrospectively recognised over a longer period as they were in differing eras.

 

It’s all opinions, there was a vote that put Pelé ahead Maradona in player of the century.

 

I’ve taken on board many point but still don’t consider him the best of all time. Your entitled to think he is if you want

 

 

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10 hours ago, RedCity said:


Messi and CR7 have always played for top club sides surrounded by other great players. Could they have achieved what Maradona did and go to an unfashionable club that had never won a title before and drag them to two Serie A titles in what was back then the best and toughest league in world football? Something they had never done before or since? And when competing against great northern Italian clubs like Juve and Milan who were full of stars in every position? I'm honestly not so sure they could have. Plus his performances in that 86 World Cup were amazing. Messi or CR7 have never come close to matching his brilliance at a WC.

 

Comparing players from different eras is difficult because it is such a different game now. Maradona often had to play on dry hard surfaces thar resembled a farmers field. He had to put up with far rougher treatment from hard as nails defenders who were allowed to get away with a lot more back then. 


great post. Totally agree.

 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:


What has my club got to do with this discussion?

Desperation Sir Gio.

 

I mentioned Platini, Gullitt and Van Basten only in the context of they were Ballon D’Or winners around the same time.

I didn’t mention Cruyff who also won it three years in a row nor Pelé who was Retrospectively recognised over a longer period as they were in differing eras.

 

It’s all opinions, there was a vote that put Pelé ahead Maradona in player of the century.

 

I’ve taken on board many point but still don’t consider him the best of all time. Your entitled to think he is if you want

 

 

Weirdo behaviour,  still on our site during the worst crisis in our lifetime. 

 

Looks like your wee table you took delight in sharing last week didn't really get it right either. 

 

I said Maradona was a genius not the greatest of all time,  but clearly ahead of Messi. 

 

Get it right ffs

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IveSeenTheLight
5 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Weirdo behaviour,  still on our site during the worst crisis in our lifetime. 

 

Looks like your wee table you took delight in sharing last week didn't really get it right either. 

 

I said Maradona was a genius not the greatest of all time,  but clearly ahead of Messi. 

 

Get it right ffs

 

:facepalm:

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

:facepalm:

Well you may. You must be feeling pretty stupid following today's statement and a tad concerned 

 

 

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IveSeenTheLight
2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Well you may. You must be feeling pretty stupid following today's statement and a tad concerned 

 

 

I have nothing to feel stupid about.

Now your comprehension............

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6 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Just to add, Maradona was restrospectively awarded two Ballon D'Ors.

In 1986 and 1990.

 

Cruyuff and Van Basten won it 3 times.

Platini won it 3 years in a row 83-85 and Messi has won it 6 times (4 in a row at one point 2009-2012)

 

If Maradona was considered to be the Greatest Of All Time, why was he awarded it only twice.

Why was Platini deemed better before 86, with Gullit 87 and Van Basten (88,89) deemed better between Maradona's awards?

 

Maradona is rightly regarded as one of the greats, but just that, one of the greats, not the greatest of all time

Show's yer World Cups?!

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3 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:


What has my club got to do with this discussion?

Desperation Sir Gio.

 

I mentioned Platini, Gullitt and Van Basten only in the context of they were Ballon D’Or winners around the same time.

I didn’t mention Cruyff who also won it three years in a row nor Pelé who was Retrospectively recognised over a longer period as they were in differing eras.

 

It’s all opinions, there was a vote that put Pelé ahead Maradona in player of the century.

 

I’ve taken on board many point but still don’t consider him the best of all time. Your entitled to think he is if you want

 

 

Maradona 54%

Pele 19%

So FIFA invented a new award, so they could share it.

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Imagine what he could do now, with pitches and protection they have. And how much he'd be worth.:vrwow:

 

Also imagine what he'd do with even more money. :wonga:

:olly:  :trippin:

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16 hours ago, RedCity said:

Could Messi have turned Napoli around in such dramatic fashion and overturned established northern giants like Juve & Milan? 

 

His performances with Argentina when he is on the whole surrounded with a weaker set of players than when at Barca would suggest it's unlikely. 
 

Not just Maradona but I'd actually argue that other great players from his era like Zico and Platini were at least as good as Ronaldo and Messi as far as natural talent goes. Zico for one had more natural talent than Ronaldo. And for me Platini's performances at Euro 84 remain the best I've seen from any player at a WC or Euros. He was aided by a fantastic fab 4 of a midfield though with Tigana, Giresse and Luis Fernandez alongside him.

It the Greatest team ever seen, had won the 82 World Cup, Zico would be in the conversation with Maradona. What a team that was.

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Diadora Van Basten

I think people have to realise the ballon dor was not that big a thing in the 80s.

 

Kevin Keegan was presented it before a first division match and just took it home in a hold-all. He didn’t even know he was up for it. He said that he only found out he came second another year a couple of years later.

 

I am pretty sure the 1988 award would be because of Holland’s performance in the euros rather than seria A.

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Rogue Daddy
11 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I enjoyed it, some great football scenes, lots of insights, told the story well, and left space to just enjoy watching it. 

I will be watching it again, its on my Tivo.

Excellent!

Jeez... I didn't realise that Argentina beat Italy in Naples in the quarter finals of the World Cup! The Italians hated him!...imagine having to live with all that. I'm amazed he's still alive!

Great film though.

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been here before
38 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Excellent!

Jeez... I didn't realise that Argentina beat Italy in Naples in the quarter finals of the World Cup! The Italians hated him!...imagine having to live with all that. I'm amazed he's still alive!

Great film though.

 

Theres another film/programme about Maradona, Bring Me The Head of Diego Maradona. It tell s that in the eve of the game Maradona appealed to the Neopolitans to back him and Argentina against the Italian side saying something along the lines of 'Naples is not Italy' and emphasising how badly the rest lf the country had treated them over the decades.

 

To a very large extent it worked.

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Rogue Daddy
Just now, been here before said:

 

Theres another film/programme about Maradona, Bring Me The Head of Diego Maradona. It tell s that in the eve of the game Maradona appealed to the Neopolitans to back him and Argentina against the Italian side saying something along the lines of 'Naples is not Italy' and emphasising how badly the rest lf the country had treated them over the decades.

 

To a very large extent it worked.

Need to look that up... they did touch on that in the film right enough.

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Diadora Van Basten
53 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Theres another film/programme about Maradona, Bring Me The Head of Diego Maradona. It tell s that in the eve of the game Maradona appealed to the Neopolitans to back him and Argentina against the Italian side saying something along the lines of 'Naples is not Italy' and emphasising how badly the rest lf the country had treated them over the decades.

 

To a very large extent it worked.

I think he said something along the lines of after the game the rest of Italy will go back to calling you Africans.

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