Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Last Laff]

14 minutes ago, luckydug said:

How can you forget your username ? 

Unless of course 🤔

It’s a natural thing, I look out for the usernames of the people o reply to and not my own as I get a wee notification when someone replies to my post.  I only need to remember by username when logging in from a new device which is very rare. 

[Mikey1874]

14 hours ago, Koolkeith said:

If we pay more in wages and less in bonuses, then I don’t see how 10-30% can be that much of a problem. By the time you take the tax off it and divide by 12, how much a month are they going to be missing? Add in the fact folk will probably be spending less due to the closure of bars, restaurants, gyms etc.  They really need to get a perspective.

 

That will be what players where clubs are making deferrals will be losing. 10-30%. Though we don't know if players have negotiated to get % of bonuses. 

[jamboinglasgow]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-remain-collision-course-pay-21929529

 

Daily Record running that some players are refusing cuts. They want wage referrals. 

 

The more I look at this, the more I feel that there has been a collective failure in Scottish football to grasp the reality of the situation about to strike it. In a way I understand the players position, other clubs of similar size are offering wage defferals (i.e. Hibs,) so why should they have their wages cut without the money returned. But they are looking at clubs are currently regretting taking that decision and scrambling to get something. Its clear that Dempster has realised the reality of situation hence that she is desperate for football to return. The PFA of Scotland is deluding itself that this will be fine and defferals will work when what could happen is that players lose all their wages if article 12 is brought into play. Also you can have a strong hand against a club if they are the only club in financial difficulty, but football is about to go into a situation when all clubs are financially struggling, meaning you are playing with a strong hand against your employer ("if you dont pay me, I will end the contract and go to another club who will play me more.")

 

I do think when the dust settles, Hearts will be seen as the club who saw what was coming and acted accordingly.

[David McCaig]

8 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-remain-collision-course-pay-21929529

 

Daily Record running that some players are refusing cuts. They want wage referrals. 

 

The more I look at this, the more I feel that there has been a collective failure in Scottish football to grasp the reality of the situation about to strike it. In a way I understand the players position, other clubs of similar size are offering wage defferals (i.e. Hibs,) so why should they have their wages cut without the money returned. But they are looking at clubs are currently regretting taking that decision and scrambling to get something. Its clear that Dempster has realised the reality of situation hence that she is desperate for football to return. The PFA of Scotland is deluding itself that this will be fine and defferals will work when what could happen is that players lose all their wages if article 12 is brought into play. Also you can have a strong hand against a club if they are the only club in financial difficulty, but football is about to go into a situation when all clubs are financially struggling, meaning you are playing with a strong hand against your employer ("if you dont pay me, I will end the contract and go to another club who will play me more.")

 

I do think when the dust settles, Hearts will be seen as the club who saw what was coming and acted accordingly.

Please let the players be stupid enough to say no and then let the club Clause 12 their arses!!

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Please let the players be stupid enough to say no and then let the club Clause 12 their arses!!

However before we all pretend there are no consequences to this action think again

 

On the whole I see the club point of view but...…………...

 

We are treating all the players the same in that they would all have a wage cut imposed with the % differing depending on the player/salary

 

So all of our players would be free to leave and lets wait and see the outcry if Hickey for example walks away for nothing .

 

Even allowing for his sell on clause that could be the best part of £1 million gone...so maybe not quite the 'get out of jail card some seem to think.

[jamboinglasgow]

3 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

However before we all pretend there are no consequences to this action think again

 

On the whole I see the club point of view but...…………...

 

We are treating all the players the same in that they would all have a wage cut imposed with the % differing depending on the player/salary

 

So all of our players would be free to leave and lets wait and see the outcry if Hickey for example walks away for nothing .

 

Even allowing for his sell on clause that could be the best part of £1 million gone...so maybe not quite the 'get out of jail card some seem to think.

 

I agree, it may not all be players we want rid of who would leave. 

 

Though one thing I would say that at the moment where are these players going to go?

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I agree, it may not all be players we want rid of who would leave. 

 

Though one thing I would say that at the moment where are these players going to go?

I don't think that would be a problem for Hickey who would become an instant millionaire with signing on fee, contract and no transfer fee for a club to pay

[jamboinglasgow]

Just now, CJGJ said:

I don't think that would be a problem for Hickey who would become an instant millionaire with signing on fee, contract and no transfer fee for a club to pay

 

Would agree with Hickey, was meaning other players.

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Would agree with Hickey, was meaning other players.

We may be lucky in that two of our other better players are on the 'long term sick list' such as Souttar and Haring.

 

I think those 2 for example were the type of player Ann Budge was mentioning (not by name) when talking about players being on a high basic and being paid injured or not from which the players can now 'pay back' part of that benefit

 

I know they may not be able to sign straight away but the good players will always get clubs and we are now only 2 months away from the window being open never mind pre contracts

 

If we go down this path I suspect there will be a few who will leave and just at time when we may see football return in June albeit behind closed doors no matter what Nicola says today.

With them we have a chance to stay up without no chance....and that does seem strange to say given our current position

[busby1985]

No one is free to leave. They’ll have their contracts suspended with us meaning they’ll receive no wages but still be contracted to us. The only way they can leave is if they agree a settlement fee with the club or agree to walk away from their contract for free. I can’t see the club agreeing to pay them off in the current climate. Or if some club is willing to pay transfer fees for them. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

No one is free to leave. They’ll have their contracts suspended with us meaning they’ll receive no wages but still be contracted to us. The only way they can leave is if they agree a settlement fee with the club or agree to walk away from their contract for free. I can’t see the club agreeing to pay them off in the current climate. Or if some club is willing to pay transfer fees for them. 

 

I think a fair few have relegation clauses or are out of contract so they couldn't care less about how it looks to Hearts fans as they're on the way out anyhow. I wonder if the ones accepting the cut are the ones planning or hoping to stay.

 

I looked for a list of our out of contract players but couldn't find it. As well as loanees we were going to lose a fair few players anyhow when Stendel revamped the squad. I imagine the better paid players are the ones with relegation clauses as well.

Edited April 26, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[busby1985]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think a fair few have relegation clauses or are out of contract so they couldn't care less about how it looks to Hearts fans as they're on the way out anyhow. I wonder if the ones accepting the cut are the ones planning or hoping to stay.

 

I looked for a list of our out of contract players but couldn't find it. As well as loanees we were going to lose a fair few players anyhow when Stendel revamped the squad. I imagine the better paid players are the ones with relegation clauses as well.

How does a relegation clause work when we aren’t relegated? Genuine question, not being a dick. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, busby1985 said:

How does a relegation clause work when we aren’t relegated? Genuine question, not being a dick. 

 

I'm just assuming we will be.

[busby1985]

We are to be expelled from the league, not relegated. I’d imagine any relegation clause may have to come under some review from a lawyer. Either way we are going to lose a load of players, something the club is desperate for and something id imagine Stendel will be happy about. 

[CJGJ]

2 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

No one is free to leave. They’ll have their contracts suspended with us meaning they’ll receive no wages but still be contracted to us. The only way they can leave is if they agree a settlement fee with the club or agree to walk away from their contract for free. I can’t see the club agreeing to pay them off in the current climate. Or if some club is willing to pay transfer fees for them. 

I suppose that would make sense but I have been told that legal action will follow if salaries are not paid to get that 'free transfer' as per Rangers players a few years back.  I know that the clubs believe it is  enforceable but would the courts of whatever type.

 

We are all in the dark because there is no date of return and they could be unpaid for a month or 6 months. I just don't see how such a clause would stand up over a long time period. I understand Scotland is the only country with such a clause in the players contracts.

[busby1985]

5 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I suppose that would make sense but I have been told that legal action will follow if salaries are not paid to get that 'free transfer' as per Rangers players a few years back.  I know that the clubs believe it is  enforceable but would the courts of whatever type.

 

We are all in the dark because there is no date of return and they could be unpaid for a month or 6 months. I just don't see how such a clause would stand up over a long time period. I understand Scotland is the only country with such a clause in the players contracts.

Well by the reaction of the PFA I think the clause would stand up as they are very scared of it happening. I also have a close friend currently playing in the top division up here who has been in meetings/video chats with the PFA about said clause. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

We are to be expelled from the league, not relegated. I’d imagine any relegation clause may have to come under some review from a lawyer. Either way we are going to lose a load of players, something the club is desperate for and something id imagine Stendel will be happy about. 

 

Ah right. Being expelled might in itself provide justification in court for financial reasons beyond our control. We'd probably had a strong case. By voting No and asking for reconstruction, Hearts can't be said to not be trying to do what's best for us and by extension our players.

[busby1985]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Ah right. Being expelled might in itself provide justification in court for financial reasons beyond our control. We'd probably had a strong case. By voting No and asking for reconstruction, Hearts can't be said to not be trying to do what's best for us and by extension our players.

Yeah and if we pursue legal action after said expulsion it will help our cause. 

[Jambo92]

Madness that they are not accepting a wage cut. I dont care if they are worth any future fees, get rid of whoever is refusing, putting our club at jeopardy so that they can continue to live lavish lifestyles whilst leaving us in last place - absolute tossers whoever they are.

[1971fozzy]

36 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

We are to be expelled from the league, not relegated. I’d imagine any relegation clause may have to come under some review from a lawyer. Either way we are going to lose a load of players, something the club is desperate for and something id imagine Stendel will be happy about. 

every cloud I guess

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

52 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I suppose that would make sense but I have been told that legal action will follow if salaries are not paid to get that 'free transfer' as per Rangers players a few years back.  I know that the clubs believe it is  enforceable but would the courts of whatever type.

 

We are all in the dark because there is no date of return and they could be unpaid for a month or 6 months. I just don't see how such a clause would stand up over a long time period. I understand Scotland is the only country with such a clause in the players contracts.

The players signed the contracts of their own free will. They can of course challenge that if they wish but the clause obviously exists to cover things beyond football's control, like wars and pandemics.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

The highly paid underachievers have until close of play today to accept or receive nowt

[pointon]

5 hours ago, Jambo92 said:

Madness that they are not accepting a wage cut. I dont care if they are worth any future fees, get rid of whoever is refusing, putting our club at jeopardy so that they can continue to live lavish lifestyles whilst leaving us in last place - absolute tossers whoever they are.

Absolutely **** them name and shame them

[DETTY29]

6 hours ago, busby1985 said:

We are to be expelled from the league, not relegated. I’d imagine any relegation clause may have to come under some review from a lawyer. Either way we are going to lose a load of players, something the club is desperate for and something id imagine Stendel will be happy about. 

Wonder if we need to formally accept 'relegation' to invoke relegation clauses with player contracts and cant use terminology such as expelled, ejected, demoted in case that is not the way the players' contracts are worded.   Sure the terminology will be all encompassing though.

 

Same for parachute payment from SPFL, it needs to be 'relegated' 

[kingantti1874]

This situation sums our players up.. in the real world, real people with real jobs are losing their jobs en masse.  A few I know Are receiving 0% of their precious incomes 

 

and these guys want back paid whilst they aren’t doing their jobs.. a lot of them haven’t done their jobs for 2 years..

 

anyone who refuses go onto 0% and are free to leave ASAP

[buzzbomb]

If she applies article 12 are players free to leave..?

[Dazo]

8 hours ago, CJGJ said:

However before we all pretend there are no consequences to this action think again

 

On the whole I see the club point of view but...…………...

 

We are treating all the players the same in that they would all have a wage cut imposed with the % differing depending on the player/salary

 

So all of our players would be free to leave and lets wait and see the outcry if Hickey for example walks away for nothing .

 

Even allowing for his sell on clause that could be the best part of £1 million gone...so maybe not quite the 'get out of jail card some seem to think.

Isn’t Hickey below the threshold so won’t have to take a pay cut ?

 

12 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

If she applies article 12 are players free to leave..?

Only if they negotiate the cancellation of their contracts with the club is the current train of thought. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Dazo

[buzzbomb]

Cheers. Just I know Washington was very close to a move to Stoke in January for a fee and thought he could be one working his ticket.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, buzzbomb said:

Cheers. Just I know Washington was very close to a move to Stoke in January for a fee and thought he could be one working his ticket.

I don’t blame any player for doing what’s best for themselves and their families but I did expect the high earners to show a bit of humility over this. They’ve earned decent money on their careers and by all accounts have been getting decent money here whether they have actually played or not. I like Washington but would imagine he is on a few quid for very little in return. 

[tokyowalnut]

20 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

This situation sums our players up.. in the real world, real people with real jobs are losing their jobs en masse.  A few I know Are receiving 0% of their precious incomes 

 

and these guys want back paid whilst they aren’t doing their jobs.. a lot of them haven’t done their jobs for 2 years..

 

anyone who refuses go onto 0% and are free to leave ASAP

Sums up my thoughts well.

 

While most of the country is thankful it can receive 80% of their salary if they are lucky, or in my case, hope that I can get some funding from the government in June for being self employed, footballer's are getting 100% for doing nothing. 

 

If any player refuses to take even a 10% cut, then the clause should be invoked. 

 

Im not one for attacking footballers and the money they make, but they have to do something here. 

[gashauskis9]

How do these players expect to get deferred wages paid to them if we're playing in the Championship and they've ****ed off somewhere else due to activating a relegation clause?  Magic money tree?

[jamboinglasgow]

19 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

How do these players expect to get deferred wages paid to them if we're playing in the Championship and they've ****ed off somewhere else due to activating a relegation clause?  Magic money tree?

 

I think there is a bit of living in a bubble among some players. Like this will quickly blow over and the clubs will have money again soon. The daily mail had a source (bet its Preston) saying that they believe Article 12 or wage cuts may invalidate the players registration so the player could leave in the summer with Hearts getting no fee. But again it smacks of people not getting their heads around that this is happening to all clubs, not just Hearts. It feels like the players, representatives and PFA Scotland are using the normal tactics for when a club has been run badly in normal times (pay us or other clubs will just snap us up.) 

Edited April 27, 2020 by jamboinglasgow

[pettigrewsstylist]

9 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-remain-collision-course-pay-21929529

 

Daily Record running that some players are refusing cuts. They want wage referrals. 

 

The more I look at this, the more I feel that there has been a collective failure in Scottish football to grasp the reality of the situation about to strike it. In a way I understand the players position, other clubs of similar size are offering wage defferals (i.e. Hibs,) so why should they have their wages cut without the money returned. But they are looking at clubs are currently regretting taking that decision and scrambling to get something. Its clear that Dempster has realised the reality of situation hence that she is desperate for football to return. The PFA of Scotland is deluding itself that this will be fine and defferals will work when what could happen is that players lose all their wages if article 12 is brought into play. Also you can have a strong hand against a club if they are the only club in financial difficulty, but football is about to go into a situation when all clubs are financially struggling, meaning you are playing with a strong hand against your employer ("if you dont pay me, I will end the contract and go to another club who will play me more.")

 

I do think when the dust settles, Hearts will be seen as the club who saw what was coming and acted accordingly.

Seems to me that AB has a history of benevolence. Living wage, shirt sponsorship etc etc. A sensible assesment by players should deduce that this course of action must be nescessary and not a shark grabbing an opportunity. A liquidated employer will not be able to pay them anything. We are not going to play 80 games per yr for next 2 yrs  to make up the  ££ income loss so deferral is poor choice for club.I wonder if selling season tkts has got players attention. 

Either way,  this clause exists because someone actually thought about extremis. The fact the players are confused about that is their issue. They will fare far better than most in 2020.

The fact they are dross and have dropped us in the sh** does not even need mentioned.

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I think there is a bit of living in a bubble among some players. Like this will quickly blow over and the clubs will have money again soon. The daily mail had a source (bet its Preston) saying that they believe Article 12 or wage cuts may invalidate the players registration so the player could leave in the summer with Hearts getting no fee. But again it smacks of people not getting their heads around that this is happening to all clubs, not just Hearts. It feels like the players, representatives and PFA Scotland are using the normal tactics for when a club has been run badly in normal times (pay us or other clubs will just snap us up.) 

The right to invoke Article 12 comes from SPFL rules and if it's in the players' contracts I cannot see how it would affect the registration.  They could try a legal route but they signed a contract accepting that without a gun at their heads.

[hmfc_liam06]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5534272/hearts-demand-free-transfer-wage-cuts/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587970850
 

I tell you what, you can all just leave. Every last one of you.

[gashauskis9]

1 hour ago, buzzbomb said:

Cheers. Just I know Washington was very close to a move to Stoke in January for a fee and thought he could be one working his ticket.

Hardly shop window stuff, coming up here with a reputation and being complicit with your team getting relegated.  Why would any English club take these huddies on?  If they can't stay up in the Scottish Prem, what makes them think they'll bring anything to English Championship or League One?

[jambogirlglasgow]

Genuinely disgusted at the players looking for a deferral of their wages in these times. That would be regardless of the league position they’ve left us in. Taking that into account it’s beyond belief. Where do they think the money for deferred wages would come from? Very happy for them to walk away right now. The fans won’t. 

[gashauskis9]

3 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5534272/hearts-demand-free-transfer-wage-cuts/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587970850
 

I tell you what, you can all just leave. Every last one of you.

Yep, and before anyone comes on here saying "you don't understand their personal situation" it's nothing personal against the players, I just value the survival of the club more than I value their situation.

[buzzbomb]

1 minute ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Hardly shop window stuff, coming up here with a reputation and being complicit with your team getting relegated.  Why would any English club take these huddies on?  If they can't stay up in the Scottish Prem, what makes them think they'll bring anything to English Championship or League One?

I’m just telling you Washington was very close to a move to stoke for cash Being completed in January.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

I’m just telling you Washington was very close to a move to stoke for cash Being completed in January.

You also said you thought he might be working his ticket.  Seems a tenuous connection.

Edited April 27, 2020 by JamboAl

[jamboinglasgow]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The right to invoke Article 12 comes from SPFL rules and if it's in the players' contracts I cannot see how it would affect the registration.  They could try a legal route but they signed a contract accepting that without a gun at their heads.

 

The bit from the article,

 

A source close to the negotiations told The Daily Mail: "The issue of suspending contracts is not as straightforward as clubs like Hearts seem to think. Failure to pay players their full salary as agreed raises the question of whether their registration is still valid and whether Hearts can still ask for a fee if they opt to leave in return for taking a cut."

[Whatever]

Over 100 years ago, the players of Heart of Midlothian, top of the league at the time, signed up en masse to fight for their country.

 

Today, whilst not at war, we have players unwilling to ‘lose’ any wages whilst the rest of us are being made redundant or furloughed from work. Players that have by and large been the worst in the league for 18 months.

 

I ****in despise them. 

 

 

[Coco]

11 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5534272/hearts-demand-free-transfer-wage-cuts/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587970850
 

I tell you what, you can all just leave. Every last one of you.

'Craig Halkett could leave'

 

[Gordon Ramsay]

17 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5534272/hearts-demand-free-transfer-wage-cuts/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587970850
 

I tell you what, you can all just leave. Every last one of you.

 

Leave then. 

 

Useless *******s.

[gashauskis9]

3 minutes ago, Coco said:

'Craig Halkett could leave'

 

No complaints from me.  Looks like he won a competition to play for Hearts most weeks. 

[hmfc_liam06]

Honestly, there's barely a single player at the club I'd be gutted to see go.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Coco said:

'Craig Halkett could leave'

 

This nonsense with phrases like "could leave" equally means maybe he could not.

In normal circumstances he could leave at any time anyway by putting in a transfer request and, when players do, they don't give a shit about the terms of the contract.

[buzzbomb]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You also said you thought he might be working his ticket.  Seems a tenuous connection.

Yes. I didn’t say it was fact, hence why I said maybe. But, being cynical, if a club is asking you to take a wage cut and there’s another club who is interested in you that can suddenly get you for free it opens up the possibility.

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

Yes. I didn’t say it was fact, hence why I said maybe. But, being cynical, if a club is asking you to take a wage cut and there’s another club who is interested in you that can suddenly get you for free it opens up the possibility.

But AB already gave that option and the only taker was Dikamona.

[hmfc_liam06]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

This nonsense with phrases like "could leave" equally means maybe he could not.

In normal circumstances he could leave at any time anyway by putting in a transfer request and, when players do, they don't give a shit about the terms of the contract.

 

He can go, he's been shite.

And repeat for 99% of the rest of them.