Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[DETTY29]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The Aberdeen owner said the US owners are looking at playing behind closed doors this winter. The golf authorities have different plans for the majors and the Ryder Cuo to be played in September-November possibly behind closed doors too. Stendel mentioned in Germany they think it will be a year without fans in stadiums.

Cheers.

[Pasquale for King]

29 minutes ago, Tatlock said:

I believe it’s an either or situation. If players are on furlough, the government pays 80%of their wages up to a maximum of £2,500 per month. If they earn over that then hearts are offering to pay 70% of their existing salary. The choice for the players is take 70% if that’s more then furlough pay or go on furlough and take the lower amount. Some players get it but others who want it deferred Don’t give a stuff about the club and should be hounded out at the first opportunity.

Well summed up, Hearts should employ you to do the statements. Succinct and to the point 👍🏽.

[luckydug]

58 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

The government website says furloughed employees can have wages topped up by employers so I believe we are correct.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

 

 

Looks to be the case 👍

It's funny how Lawyers can come to varying conclusions. 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Some tweets from Derek Rae from a German and USA perspective.

 

German advice is that behind closed doors possible but players need to be in permanent lock down  away from families and so on.  And staff and officials.

 

Its been pretty much credited that the Germans are miles ahead if the curve in terms of approach and resources compared to UK.

 

Ignore USA, their President is a cretin.

 

 

 

German efficiency. 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We’ll soon find out who is wrong then - the Aberdeen lawyers or the Hearts lawyers.

 

Re Article 12,  AB is not suspending players wages yet, she said she is going to furlough all players and said that nobody would be taking more than a 30% cut.  Going by the Aberdeen lawyers, and extracts the panel were reading from the GRS, I’m struggling to see how our bigger earners would qualify.

I think both are maybe right and both are maybe wrong.  This is how I see it.

You cannot be furloughed if you are still working on full pay eg health staff, police, some shop staff, and many more no doubt.

If you are not working, such as sports people, (some) shop staff etc you can be furloughed up to £2500 per month on the understanding that you will retain your job.  The employer can top up the salary but is under no obligation to do so.  If they did so the employee would effectively be on full pay.

If clubs pay full pay their employees do not qualify for furlough and if they move to furlough later they cannot make a retrospective claim.

I hope I have interpreted this correctly but there are many doubts including even whether the £2500 is taxable and I would suggest not, at least for basic rate taxpayers.  I'm guessing that the 80% figure is 100% less deemed tax of 20%.

[DETTY29]

37 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think both are maybe right and both are maybe wrong.  This is how I see it.

You cannot be furloughed if you are still working on full pay eg health staff, police, some shop staff, and many more no doubt.

If you are not working, such as sports people, (some) shop staff etc you can be furloughed up to £2500 per month on the understanding that you will retain your job.  The employer can top up the salary but is under no obligation to do so.  If they did so the employee would effectively be on full pay.

If clubs pay full pay their employees do not qualify for furlough and if they move to furlough later they cannot make a retrospective claim.

I hope I have interpreted this correctly but there are many doubts including even whether the £2500 is taxable and I would suggest not, at least for basic rate taxpayers.  I'm guessing that the 80% figure is 100% less deemed tax of 20%.

What happens to players whose contract expires on 12 June? 

 

Do they need to be kept on if furloughed?

[gashauskis9]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Ron Gordon confirming in papers today that Hibs players will be paid back in full. 

Great.  Can’t wait to give them a taste of their own medicine with the “debt ridden cheats” chat.  Deferred wages will kill most clubs in the UK.  Absolute moronic route to take and gives players false hope.  

[JamboAl]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

What happens to players whose contract expires on 12 June? 

 

Do they need to be kept on if furloughed?

I wouldn't know and I doubt if the Chancellor knows either.

Furlough was introduced for a 3 month period which started on 1st March so presumably will end on 31/5/20 which is before the contract expires.  What happens after that is anyone's guess.

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Great.  Can’t wait to give them a taste of their own medicine with the “debt ridden cheats” chat.  Deferred wages will kill most clubs in the UK.  Absolute moronic route to take and gives players false hope.  

IMO deferred wages is full pay but in a different time frame.

[jr ewing]

20 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

What happens to players whose contract expires on 12 June? 

 

Do they need to be kept on if furloughed?

Yes until this crisis is over. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

No virologists know exactly how this virus works yet - even efficient German ones.

 

What appears to be true is that soon enough more people will start dying from the economic impact of lockdown than the virus itself 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, luckydug said:

The Aberdeen chappie is being advised that you can't furlough people who are either working or still getting paid. 

As Hearts players are still receiving a wage if he is correct that rules out topping up their wages with furlough payments. 

So if AB wants to cut the payroll by 50%

we are back to square one. 

Unless the Aberdeen lawyers are wrong of course. 

People furloughed can receive wages. Employers perfectly entitled to make up the additional 20% to full pay. We could pay players any top up we want I think 

[Hungry hippo]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

What happens to players whose contract expires on 12 June? 

 

Do they need to be kept on if furloughed?

 

No. The furlough just ends when their contract ends if it's not being extended.

 

 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

What happens to players whose contract expires on 12 June? 

 

Do they need to be kept on if furloughed?

Furlough period will end on day their contract ends. Employers set furlough dates and periods. Part month furloughing is allowable. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

What happens to players whose contract expires on 12 June? 

 

Do they need to be kept on if furloughed?

I assume they are released and left to find another club?

 

I wonder what happens if we try to sign a free agent during this time. Not sure we would be allowed to recruit and then stick them on furlough. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

57 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Yes until this crisis is over. 

Furlough is only, initially at least, for 3 months and only up to £2,500 per month.  I haven’t see anything yet that says clubs need to pay players once their contracts expire, although I’m sure there were murmurs that FIFA could intervene.  That would seem ridiculous though, forcing clubs to pay out of contract players, especially if their contract has already effectively been suspended under Article 12.

 

Edit:  looks like different for fixed term contracts!

Edited April 5, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[Fozzyonthefence]

5 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I assume they are released and left to find another club?

 

I wonder what happens if we try to sign a free agent during this time. Not sure we would be allowed to recruit and then stick them on furlough. 

It would certainly be morally wrong if nothing else!

[sac]

4 hours ago, Italian Lambretta said:

Sadly i think Wee Jimmy Krankie will have us cooped up in our houses until next year. 

 

 

Not if you own a holiday home🤫

[1971fozzy]

1 hour ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Great.  Can’t wait to give them a taste of their own medicine with the “debt ridden cheats” chat.  Deferred wages will kill most clubs in the UK.  Absolute moronic route to take and gives players false hope.  

100% this will be comedy gold. Their fans all high and mighty. See if this thing goes on until the new year without fans attending games they will a) be stuffed or b) have an embarrassing reversal

 

their latest is our tainted trophies 😂😂 never minding that they won the cup with Celtic players ffs

 

vermin roasters 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

52 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

People furloughed can receive wages. Employers perfectly entitled to make up the additional 20% to full pay. We could pay players any top up we want I think 

 

I think that's right. Like the Aberdeen guy seemed to say, anyone furloughed cannot work, even if they get top up wages from the club. So anyone who you want to work you don't furlough, which is why Hearts haven't furloughed all non-playing staff (just asked for pay cuts).

 

It sounds like all players will be furloughed by us and we will top up their wages (after they accept a pay cut), so none of our players can follow a training program set and monitored by us, etc (although I assume they'll all already have something fairly tailored to follow on their own). Anyone not accepting those terms will no doubt be offski.

[XB52]

4 hours ago, Italian Lambretta said:

Sadly i think Wee Jimmy Krankie will have us cooped up in our houses until next year. 

 

 

Can you not take one day off from being a moron??

[Vansen]

As far as I understand it furloughed workers will be taxed and NICd on the amounts they receive. Self employed workers will need to declare the amounts they receive on the next tax return so they get taxed and NICd as well. 

 

Sure I saw that on gov.uk.

[gashauskis9]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

IMO deferred wages is full pay but in a different time frame.

Yes, in the same time frame where they will be paid full wages in real time.  It’ll be carnage.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

I assume they are released and left to find another club?

 

I wonder what happens if we try to sign a free agent during this time. Not sure we would be allowed to recruit and then stick them on furlough. 

As things stand if they are released and do not qualify for furlough they will be able to claim dole/universal credit/whatever.

However, the Chancellor may come out with a new package which may or may extend their furlough entitlement beyond 31/05/20 which, coincidentally, I think is when Scottish football contracts usually end.

[The Real Maroonblood]

35 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Can you not take one day off from being a moron??

His/her history post would confirm you are right.

[luckydug]

7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

As things stand if they are released and do not qualify for furlough they will be able to claim dole/universal credit/whatever.

However, the Chancellor may come out with a new package which may or may extend their furlough entitlement beyond 31/05/20 which, coincidentally, I think is when Scottish football contracts usually end.

As most of them will have savings they will only be able to claim benefits based on their NI record. 

Six months payments then it stops. 

[jr ewing]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Furlough is only, initially at least, for 3 months and only up to £2,500 per month.  I haven’t see anything yet that says clubs need to pay players once their contracts expire, although I’m sure there were murmurs that FIFA could intervene.  That would seem ridiculous though, forcing clubs to pay out of contract players, especially if their contract has already effectively been suspended under Article 12.

 

Edit:  looks like different for fixed term contracts!

Employers are obliged to keep employees on so as they qualify for the payments. 

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Vansen said:

As far as I understand it furloughed workers will be taxed and NICd on the amounts they receive. Self employed workers will need to declare the amounts they receive on the next tax return so they get taxed and NICd as well. 

 

Sure I saw that on gov.uk.

 

Yeah

 

Its income and is still taxable

[Mikey1874]

50 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Ron Gordon lagging behind Cormack in the moral superiority sweepstake.

 

He'll catch up.

 

Probably the interview is being arranged for next Saturday. Gordon is in Miami just now. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, weehammy said:

Ron Gordon lagging behind Cormack in the moral superiority sweepstake.

 

Good luck with that. The last time Hibs played the morality sweepstake, constantly boasting about how "well run" financially they were, they ended up getting relegated, went cap in hand to the bank and fans and eventually sold out to a foreign millionaire. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Employers are obliged to keep employees on so as they qualify for the payments. 

I don’t think they are for fixed term contracts which is what footballers are obviously on.  

[McCrae]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I don’t think they are for fixed term contracts which is what footballers are obviously on.  

Correct. Fixed term contracts are expected to be paid.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

Correct. Fixed term contracts are expected to be paid.

Presumably you meant only to the end of the contract and not beyond that?

[jr ewing]

26 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Presumably you meant only to the end of the contract and not beyond that?

Until they find another club. 

[Beast Boy]

7 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

No virologists know exactly how this virus works yet - even efficient German ones.

 

What appears to be true is that soon enough more people will start dying from the economic impact of lockdown than the virus itself 

More than 700 a day? Would be surprised.

[Fozzyonthefence]

24 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Until they find another club. 

I doubt the club would be expected to pay a player after their contract has expired.  Any links to that?  In theory we could have a player who can’t find another club and we have to keep paying him for years!

Edited April 5, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[McCrae]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Presumably you meant only to the end of the contract and not beyond that?

Yes, only till contract is up. 

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Good luck with that. The last time Hibs played the morality sweepstake, constantly boasting about how "well run" financially they were, they ended up getting relegated, went cap in hand to the bank and fans and eventually sold out to a foreign millionaire. 

Touche 👍 all factual. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Yes, only till contract is up. 

Yes, this would appear to confirm that.

 

 

[McCrae]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yes, this would appear to confirm that.

 

 

👍

[braveheart]

10 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

German efficiency. 

The Germans are also fiddling the figures.corona virus has to be the cause of death.if someone has cancer and then gets Corona virus I believe there blaming the cancer.

[jr ewing]

8 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I doubt the club would be expected to pay a player after their contract has expired.  Any links to that?  In theory we could have a player who can’t find another club and we have to keep paying him for years!

No the Government pay his £2500 a month as long as they are furloughed for at least the next three months. I think. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 hours ago, braveheart said:

The Germans are also fiddling the figures.corona virus has to be the cause of death.if someone has cancer and then gets Corona virus I believe there blaming the cancer.

Have you got a link or is it all just hearsay?

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, jr ewing said:

No the Government pay his £2500 a month as long as they are furloughed for at least the next three months. I think. 

I'm not sure that's correct.  The scheme is for job retention and if a player's contracr comes to an end and Hearts don't want to retain him then there is no job retention.  Unless therefore there is a specific clause covering this situation I would have thought the player would have to turn to dole/universal credit if the qualifications are met.

[Beast Boy]

13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Have you got a link or is it all just hearsay?

Here is a good link about it. Not quite what the post you quoted suggests:

 

https://edinburghcovid19selfisolation.blogspot.com/2020/03/29th-of-march-2020-pandemic-diary.html?m=1

 

It’s written by someone who was doing their PhD where I worked about 12 years ago. They posted a link to it on social media. I sent it to my friend in Germany, and it tallies with her experience.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Look at the planet as a whole, China the US not withstanding Italy and Spain,  Miles away from being back to normality!!!!!  Football won’t be played behind closed doors or otherwise until the whole world has this fully under control. 

Football will be the last thing to be allowed.  Certain dates are fixed like the European Championship that was put back a year, so next season will need to end by the start of May as this one was.  Thus the start of next season is also fixed, so extending and completing this one will require some sort of mini pre-season which will be a couple of weeks say?  So taking this into account and playing every Wednesday/Saturday will take 6 weeks at best, then to play the cup semi and final another 2 weeks, So in essence 8 weeks to finish this season.  That will require to be completed by the end of July to accommodate a full fixture campaign next season (even with a shortened summer break) so either we sacrifice this season or play a reduced fixture list next year  in either case this season or next will cause a reduced income.  The clever money is this season being written off, as let’s face it we won’t globally get on top of this by mid-May to allow completion of this year, and that will be fluid that football WILL be allowed then, so A decision on this Plan B requires to be promoted as the Plan A

The Plan A which is globally seen as the only show in town by the GFA and west coast media is fantasy but its spouted out as if saying I am not racist BUT!

If they cannot guarantee normality will return fully worldwide by the end of May and that will be promised in April, then they should already be working on Plan B as the only plan.  Save next season and come to a consensus that does not kill the game,  what’s fair is not important as what’s best, Keeping us up with our traveling support than football integrity where we should be relegated, but lets face it Kilmarnock or St Johnstone do you want the likes of Hamilton in the top flight who bring so much more to the game with their match fixing coaching staff and huge travel support??????

All of this will require the world being rid of this in about 6 weeks,   I just can’t see any football this side of September…July if we get a miracle cure.   I have an “A told you so T Shirt”

[The Real Maroonblood]

55 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Here is a good link about it. Not quite what the post you quoted suggests:

 

https://edinburghcovid19selfisolation.blogspot.com/2020/03/29th-of-march-2020-pandemic-diary.html?m=1

 

It’s written by someone who was doing their PhD where I worked about 12 years ago. They posted a link to it on social media. I sent it to my friend in Germany, and it tallies with her experience.

👍

[Dazo]

17 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Look at the planet as a whole, China the US not withstanding Italy and Spain,  Miles away from being back to normality!!!!!  Football won’t be played behind closed doors or otherwise until the whole world has this fully under control. 

Football will be the last thing to be allowed.  Certain dates are fixed like the European Championship that was put back a year, so next season will need to end by the start of May as this one was.  Thus the start of next season is also fixed, so extending and completing this one will require some sort of mini pre-season which will be a couple of weeks say?  So taking this into account and playing every Wednesday/Saturday will take 6 weeks at best, then to play the cup semi and final another 2 weeks, So in essence 8 weeks to finish this season.  That will require to be completed by the end of July to accommodate a full fixture campaign next season (even with a shortened summer break) so either we sacrifice this season or play a reduced fixture list next year  in either case this season or next will cause a reduced income.  The clever money is this season being written off, as let’s face it we won’t globally get on top of this by mid-May to allow completion of this year, and that will be fluid that football WILL be allowed then, so A decision on this Plan B requires to be promoted as the Plan A

The Plan A which is globally seen as the only show in town by the GFA and west coast media is fantasy but its spouted out as if saying I am not racist BUT!

If they cannot guarantee normality will return fully worldwide by the end of May and that will be promised in April, then they should already be working on Plan B as the only plan.  Save next season and come to a consensus that does not kill the game,  what’s fair is not important as what’s best, Keeping us up with our traveling support than football integrity where we should be relegated, but lets face it Kilmarnock or St Johnstone do you want the likes of Hamilton in the top flight who bring so much more to the game with their match fixing coaching staff and huge travel support??????

All of this will require the world being rid of this in about 6 weeks,   I just can’t see any football this side of September…July if we get a miracle cure.   I have an “A told you so T Shirt”

 

Agree. The main point of what I have been saying since the start. Why ruin and create a shambles for two seasons to try and fix this. This season is gone and will be impossible to finish within the timeframes needed. Void this season and move on to plan next season or if we really have to count this season for euro entry Call this season as is but with no Promotion or relegation through the spfl. Dish out the prize money and move the **** on to plan next season. 

[busby1985]

The season isn’t going to be null and void, that’s not happening and from what we are hearing, isn’t an option. The SFA want to declare the season as it stands, Celtic champions and us relegated, all the noise we have heard from Hearts is to try influence that decision so it doesn’t happen. It was reported on sportsound on Saturday that the overwhelming majority of chairmen in the Scottish game want the league called. I think the SFA are now trying to test and query the seriousness of UEFA’s threat of removing Euro places for leagues that don’t commit to finishing the season by their new dead line. We will hear on Wednesday that we have been relegated, that’s my gut feeling. 

[August Landmesser]

14 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

The season isn’t going to be null and void, that’s not happening and from what we are hearing, isn’t an option. The SFA want to declare the season as it stands, Celtic champions and us relegated, all the noise we have heard from Hearts is to try influence that decision so it doesn’t happen. It was reported on sportsound on Saturday that the overwhelming majority of chairmen in the Scottish game want the league called. I think the SFA are now trying to test and query the seriousness of UEFA’s threat of removing Euro places for leagues that don’t commit to finishing the season by their new dead line. We will hear on Wednesday that we have been relegated, that’s my gut feeling. 

And if so, then we'll hear on Thursday that we're suing the arse off the SPFL.