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League Reconstruction - Perfect time?


LarrysRightFoot

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LarrysRightFoot

Mods - if already covered please merge.

 

Ill start by saying (and this won’t go down well) at this point we deserve to be relegated - this season has been a disgrace. 
 

If we stay up due to Coronavirus or Hamilton match fixing (in a previous I believe) it’ll trump Aberdeen staying up due to league reconstruction.

 

Which leads me into my main point. 
 

I see in Germany they are proposing if the season cannot finish that there will be no relegation from the top flight. They will instead expand the top flight with the teams currently in the top 4 places in the league below.

 

For me we have been crying out for an expanded top flight in Scotland for a long time. A 16 team league with a twice a season format would be a breath of fresh air IMO. 

it would make games more of an event - sometimes with 4 a season plus often a 5th against somebody in the cup it becomes a chore and certain games less attractive.

 

Yes there would be less games, however every team (out-with European participants) is now guaranteed 4 LC games instead of 1. 

it would probably allow sides to develop - something we badly needed this season - instead of it being a constant battle to survive for a lot of clubs. 

 

It would probably allow for a longer summer and winter break and less midweek fixtures. It would likely mean replays wouldn’t need to be scrapped which seems a popular idea at the moment (I’m not sure either way if scrapping them is a good idea or not).

 

Ideally I’d like to see some kind of cross border competition (I think somebody a manager or commentator in England mentioned this recently?) - even if it was just an expanded Charity Shield with the 4 cup winners playing each other.

 

Thoughts?

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132goals1958
5 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Mods - if already covered please merge.

 

Ill start by saying (and this won’t go down well) at this point we deserve to be relegated - this season has been a disgrace. 
 

If we stay up due to Coronavirus or Hamilton match fixing (in a previous I believe) it’ll trump Aberdeen staying up due to league reconstruction.

 

Which leads me into my main point. 
 

I see in Germany they are proposing if the season cannot finish that there will be no relegation from the top flight. They will instead expand the top flight with the teams currently in the top 4 places in the league below.

 

For me we have been crying out for an expanded top flight in Scotland for a long time. A 16 team league with a twice a season format would be a breath of fresh air IMO. 

it would make games more of an event - sometimes with 4 a season plus often a 5th against somebody in the cup it becomes a chore and certain games less attractive.

 

Yes there would be less games, however every team (out-with European participants) is now guaranteed 4 LC games instead of 1. 

it would probably allow sides to develop - something we badly needed this season - instead of it being a constant battle to survive for a lot of clubs. 

 

It would probably allow for a longer summer and winter break and less midweek fixtures. It would likely mean replays wouldn’t need to be scrapped which seems a popular idea at the moment (I’m not sure either way if scrapping them is a good idea or not).

 

Ideally I’d like to see some kind of cross border competition (I think somebody a manager or commentator in England mentioned this recently?) - even if it was just an expanded Charity Shield with the 4 cup winners playing each other.

 

Thoughts?

 

There is little or no sense of occasion playing the bigot brothers and our neighbors compared to days of yesteryear. Thirty five years ago since anyone outside the gruesome twosome won the league. At least vying for only 12 points a season might just re- introduce an element of competition. Sadly everything is geared towards those vile institutions. 

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1 minute ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Mods - if already covered please merge.

 

Ill start by saying (and this won’t go down well) at this point we deserve to be relegated - this season has been a disgrace. 
 

If we stay up due to Coronavirus or Hamilton match fixing (in a previous I believe) it’ll trump Aberdeen staying up due to league reconstruction.

 

Which leads me into my main point. 
 

I see in Germany they are proposing if the season cannot finish that there will be no relegation from the top flight. They will instead expand the top flight with the teams currently in the top 4 places in the league below.

 

For me we have been crying out for an expanded top flight in Scotland for a long time. A 16 team league with a twice a season format would be a breath of fresh air IMO. 

it would make games more of an event - sometimes with 4 a season plus often a 5th against somebody in the cup it becomes a chore and certain games less attractive.

 

Yes there would be less games, however every team (out-with European participants) is now guaranteed 4 LC games instead of 1. 

it would probably allow sides to develop - something we badly needed this season - instead of it being a constant battle to survive for a lot of clubs. 

 

It would probably allow for a longer summer and winter break and less midweek fixtures. It would likely mean replays wouldn’t need to be scrapped which seems a popular idea at the moment (I’m not sure either way if scrapping them is a good idea or not).

 

Ideally I’d like to see some kind of cross border competition (I think somebody a manager or commentator in England mentioned this recently?) - even if it was just an expanded Charity Shield with the 4 cup winners playing each other.

 

Thoughts?

Some boy on sportsound last night basically saying that we can’t reconstruct the league because it’ll break our contract with the broadcasters due to the amount of old firm away games that get shown. 

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132goals1958
3 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Some boy on sportsound last night basically saying that we can’t reconstruct the league because it’ll break our contract with the broadcasters due to the amount of old firm away games that get shown. 

 

And therein lies the mickey mouse nature of our game.

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LarrysRightFoot
28 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Some boy on sportsound last night basically saying that we can’t reconstruct the league because it’ll break our contract with the broadcasters due to the amount of old firm away games that get shown. 

Well they aren’t getting their last 2 this season. I’m sure something could be done in the light of unprecedented circumstances.

 

Either that or create an Old Firm Cup - they could play it in the winter break.

Edited by LarrysRightFoot
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LarrysRightFoot

Forgot to mention, with a proper winter break we could also bring back the Tennents 6s.

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Anyone who actually enjoys playing the same teams 4 times a season is delusional beyond belief. Its stale, boring and doesn't encourage genuine top end competition. With such a poor TV deal, the approach should simply be, this is what we're doing deal with it. Celtic and Rangers have played turns for the league title for a good 20 years up until the huns went bust, now its just Celtic. Does anyone think this is sustainable for interest in the domestic game?

 

A simple question is why does Germany, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Russia, Netherlands, Italy ETC. not have a split? Its because its a ****ing stupid idea. We need either a 16 or 18 team league. I think 18 to ensure clubs have the volume of games to make up for any initial loss in revenue. 

 

Scottish football is funded by the fans. Ticket sales make up almost all every NON-OF clubs funds. It makes far more sense to me that the game is constructed in such a way to interest these stakeholders rather than Sky or BT. Surely, with supply and demand our top tier fixtures (Celtic/the huns/Hearts/Hibs and Aberdeen) are worth more? Much more significance put on the game since defeat at home means a whole season to wait before getting the chance to put it right. Thats exciting no?

 

It should be trialled initially to see how things go. If things stay the same or improve then it was worth doing. The format is dated and not fit for purpose. The OF have too big a say on competitors seasons. In a bigger league Aberdeen might have won the league in 2015-16. 

 

Its much needed and we need to push for it as fans.

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bigsuperslim1874
3 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Well they aren’t getting there last 2 this season. I’m sure something could be done in the light of unprecedented circumstances.

 

Either that or create an Old Firm Cup - they could play it in the winter break.

This.

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Well they aren’t getting their last 2 this season. I’m sure something could be done in the light of unprecedented circumstances.

 

Either that or create an Old Firm Cup - they could play it in the winter break.

First leg in Dublin 2nd leg in Belfast.

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LarrysRightFoot
2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

First leg in Dublin 2nd leg in Belfast.

It went through my mind.

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It was proposed on Football Focus that the top two teams of the championship be added to the Premiership for one season then have relegation increased to 5 at the end of the season to restore it too 20 team league.

That might work (not perfect) in Scotland, but I can see this virus becoming prolonged, maybe into winter.

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LarrysRightFoot
8 minutes ago, hueyview said:

It was proposed on Football Focus that the top two teams of the championship be added to the Premiership for one season then have relegation increased to 5 at the end of the season to restore it too 20 team league.

That might work (not perfect) in Scotland, but I can see this virus becoming prolonged, maybe into winter.

We need a larger league for the long term, not the short IMO.

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NaturalOrder74

Even without our league position I still think a couple of extra teams to play against keeps things interesting as long as the old firm get there 4 games I don’t see it being a problem, remember someone suggested two games then a split and that seems good to me means we finally fix this more games away from home pish we seem to get every year

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Perfect time?

 

Answer - yes.     For only one reason.    Because it is the ONLY solution to the existing set of circumstances.

 

League reconstruction,   not because it is desired but because it presents as a sole solution to a crisis.

 

The end.

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Ex member of the SaS

No matter what they propose it all comes down to the rest of the league shitting their pants, when they had the chance to change the voting pattern. By allowing the bigot twins to hold onto the power they have destroyed any hope of a fair and level playing field.

Any change or proposition will come down to what suits the twins. It's their way or no way.

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LarrysRightFoot
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Perfect time?

 

Answer - yes.     For only one reason.    Because it is the ONLY solution to the existing set of circumstances.

 

League reconstruction,   not because it is desired but because it presents as a sole solution to a crisis.

 

The end.

You think our current format - which no other league worth it’s salt even considers - is good?

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LarrysRightFoot
1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

No matter what they propose it all comes down to the rest of the league shitting their pants, when they had the chance to change the voting pattern. By allowing the bigot twins to hold onto the power they have destroyed any hope of a fair and level playing field.

Any change or proposition will come down to what suits the twins. It's their way or no way.

Aberdeen shat it.

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LarrysRightFoot
4 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Even without our league position I still think a couple of extra teams to play against keeps things interesting as long as the old firm get there 4 games I don’t see it being a problem, remember someone suggested two games then a split and that seems good to me means we finally fix this more games away from home pish we seem to get every year

109% the league needs expanded regardless of the current circumstances.

 

The circumstances however may mean it actually happens.

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Just now, LarrysRightFoot said:

You think our current format - which no other league worth it’s salt even considers - is good?

 

No I don't and I never suggested I did.    What words are you seeing that I can't?

 

League reconstruction has only just appeared on the horizon.    Why?    Not because there was a mass desire for it.    Because it is THE solution to solve this problem.

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LarrysRightFoot
1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

No I don't and I never suggested I did.    What words are you seeing that I can't?

 

League reconstruction has only just appeared on the horizon.    Why?    Not because there was a mass desire for it.    Because it is THE solution to solve this problem.

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said, sorry. 
 

I think there has long been a desire for it from fans.

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Agree

 

It could also include moving to Summer football (well Spring to Autumn football).

 

Could finish current season, and have the League Cup or another tournament before end of year. 

 

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16 team league. Play each other twice. Winter break. I’d even look to bring in summer football. Thats what id do if I was in charge. 

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1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Mods - if already covered please merge.

 

Ill start by saying (and this won’t go down well) at this point we deserve to be relegated - this season has been a disgrace. 
 

If we stay up due to Coronavirus or Hamilton match fixing (in a previous I believe) it’ll trump Aberdeen staying up due to league reconstruction.

 

Which leads me into my main point. 
 

I see in Germany they are proposing if the season cannot finish that there will be no relegation from the top flight. They will instead expand the top flight with the teams currently in the top 4 places in the league below.

 

For me we have been crying out for an expanded top flight in Scotland for a long time. A 16 team league with a twice a season format would be a breath of fresh air IMO. 

it would make games more of an event - sometimes with 4 a season plus often a 5th against somebody in the cup it becomes a chore and certain games less attractive.

 

Yes there would be less games, however every team (out-with European participants) is now guaranteed 4 LC games instead of 1. 

it would probably allow sides to develop - something we badly needed this season - instead of it being a constant battle to survive for a lot of clubs. 

 

It would probably allow for a longer summer and winter break and less midweek fixtures. It would likely mean replays wouldn’t need to be scrapped which seems a popular idea at the moment (I’m not sure either way if scrapping them is a good idea or not).

 

Ideally I’d like to see some kind of cross border competition (I think somebody a manager or commentator in England mentioned this recently?) - even if it was just an expanded Charity Shield with the 4 cup winners playing each other.

 

Thoughts?

I would favour a 16 team league with no split, over a 14 team league with a split.
 

Continue down the line,  and bring in  teams from the non league.  
 

That way books goes down who has a chance of staying up, and most teams with a chance of promotion, do get promoted.  

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Just now, LarrysRightFoot said:

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said, sorry. 
 

I think there has long been a desire for it from fans.

 

Yes.     Look out though for other people resisting.    Not because it's a bad idea to do it,    but because their limited minds will view it as an unfair advantage to 'save' an undeserving club.     They'll miss the solution because of an inability to be practical.

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I actually quite like the split, creates a bit of drama at times.

 

Would like 16 team league. Play everyone twice, then split and play again once. 37 games a season. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr 3 Putt said:

Everyone: League reconstruction?

 

The Old Firm: LOL, sit the **** back down peasants.

 

Coming to a cinema near you soon..

 

League Reconstruction - Nut.

 

Plot.

 

League reconstruction?

 

Celtic "nut... we want ra title.   League must be declared complete".

 

Rangers "nut... league reconstruction was not offered to us when we were persecuted into league 2".

 

Cast

 

Celtic

Rangers

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LarrysRightFoot
10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes.     Look out though for other people resisting.    Not because it's a bad idea to do it,    but because their limited minds will view it as an unfair advantage to 'save' an undeserving club.     They'll miss the solution because of an inability to be practical.

The thing is, how we have played this season (so far) we deserve to go down. 
 

Im genuinely not suggesting it because we are bottom - if we were 4th I’d be saying the same thing. 
 

Hamilton, who probably have a 10th of our budget are 4 points ahead of us. Ayr and ICT probably have similar (if not better) budgets than Hamilton and DUFC and Dundee will have budgets similar to or bigger than Motherwell. 
 

I don’t think those 4 coming up would dilute quality or competition. 

Edited by LarrysRightFoot
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Just now, LarrysRightFoot said:

The thing is how we have played this season (so far) we deserve to do down. 
 

Im genuinely not suggesting it because we are bottom - if we were 4th I’d be saying the same thing. 
 

Hamilton, who probably have a 10th of our budget are 4 points ahead of us. Ayr and ICT probably have similar (if not better budgets than Hamilton) and DUFC and Dundee will have budgets similar to our bigger than Motherwell. 
 

I don’t think those 4 coming up would dilute quality or competition. 

 

People need to bin the mumbo jumbo about what is deserved,  blah blah.     It's irrelevant now.     It has to be a fact / rule / practicality based solution.     Making guesses and notional arguments about who deserves stuff is utterly irrelevant.

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Prince Buaben

Before we can discuss any possible reconstruction we need a vague idea when we might be possible to start. This isnt going to be over in 3 weeks so why move things to May/June.

 

My own idea is now euros are cancelled why not finish leagues as they are. This makes Celtic,Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove are champions. No relegation but promote those teams. bring in Brora and Kelty too from HFL and Ll

 

Then take Scottish Cup Semis and play off games (between positions 2-5 in championship,League 1 and 2) Play them to close the season. Take a summer break as normal aand tart next season as close as we can. Would leave Premiership with 14, Championship,League 1 and 2.

Premiership would split at game 26 rather than 31 and its 2 home and 2 away. 

Championship,League 1 and 2 would still have 10 teams. 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Barack said:

As I was saying yesterday. They're all over 2008 and the "league can't be extended due to sporting integrity" statement.

 

Things change. Not sure if the rules have from the SPFL/SFA in that time though...?

 

We'll make sure the contents of the rules aid us and lobby for additional practicalities.     Others will lobby for out-of-rules decisions.     At that point the rules will help us.

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9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

I actually quite like the split, creates a bit of drama at times.

 

Would like 16 team league. Play everyone twice, then split and play again once. 37 games a season. 

 

And have an uneven amount of home/away games?

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Ex member of the SaS

There is very little scope left to the GFA. End the season now. First off they can't relegate as we COULD still stay up and to relegate would mean a loss in revenue. But we can't stay up as that would impact on the Championship teams waiting to join the gravy train.

Therefore league reconstruction ( even for one season) , is the ONLY answer. Bottom two stay up and the top two from the Championship join us. The added bonus is the teams below the Championship would move up thus improving them and the Championship.

As for summer football the only reason I can see against it, is the old " it's tradition to play in the winter".

By playing in the summer, ball control and skills would improve, ( this would also help in European comps ) and fans could sit comfortably without getting cold and wet.

What could be nicer than a couple of pints in the beer garden and a stroll down Gorgie for a game?

For once the greater good has to be the way forward and the Bigot twins should not be allowed to veto anything that solves this problem.

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I stopped going to away games a good few years ago but was bored shitless of heading along the M8 every second week to the Uglies, Motherwell, Dumbarton, St Mirren, Hamilton, etc. 18 teams, play each other twice and bring back the Texaco Cup. Bosh

Edited by Jamhammer
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This would have been the perfect solution, had Aberdeen not decided to side with the enemy and prevent a change to the voting system.

 

As it is, we are now stuck with a shite TV deal that dictates the format and size of our leagues so they can broadcast four bigot festivals every season.

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26 minutes ago, Prince Buaben said:

Before we can discuss any possible reconstruction we need a vague idea when we might be possible to start. This isnt going to be over in 3 weeks so why move things to May/June.

 

My own idea is now euros are cancelled why not finish leagues as they are. This makes Celtic,Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove are champions. No relegation but promote those teams. bring in Brora and Kelty too from HFL and Ll

 

Then take Scottish Cup Semis and play off games (between positions 2-5 in championship,League 1 and 2) Play them to close the season. Take a summer break as normal aand tart next season as close as we can. Would leave Premiership with 14, Championship,League 1 and 2.

Premiership would split at game 26 rather than 31 and its 2 home and 2 away. 

Championship,League 1 and 2 would still have 10 teams. 

 

 

Suspect its September at earliest to resume. 

 

Uncertain though as you say. 

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24 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

There is very little scope left to the GFA. End the season now. First off they can't relegate as we COULD still stay up and to relegate would mean a loss in revenue. But we can't stay up as that would impact on the Championship teams waiting to join the gravy train.

Therefore league reconstruction ( even for one season) , is the ONLY answer. Bottom two stay up and the top two from the Championship join us. The added bonus is the teams below the Championship would move up thus improving them and the Championship.

As for summer football the only reason I can see against it, is the old " it's tradition to play in the winter".

By playing in the summer, ball control and skills would improve, ( this would also help in European comps ) and fans could sit comfortably without getting cold and wet.

What could be nicer than a couple of pints in the beer garden and a stroll down Gorgie for a game?

For once the greater good has to be the way forward and the Bigot twins should not be allowed to veto anything that solves this problem.

 

'Far too sensible' alert.

 

Watch what England does next week. And with Germany could set the template. 

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1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Mods - if already covered please merge.

 

Ill start by saying (and this won’t go down well) at this point we deserve to be relegated - this season has been a disgrace. 
 

If we stay up due to Coronavirus or Hamilton match fixing (in a previous I believe) it’ll trump Aberdeen staying up due to league reconstruction.

 

Which leads me into my main point. 
 

I see in Germany they are proposing if the season cannot finish that there will be no relegation from the top flight. They will instead expand the top flight with the teams currently in the top 4 places in the league below.

 

For me we have been crying out for an expanded top flight in Scotland for a long time. A 16 team league with a twice a season format would be a breath of fresh air IMO. 

it would make games more of an event - sometimes with 4 a season plus often a 5th against somebody in the cup it becomes a chore and certain games less attractive.

 

Yes there would be less games, however every team (out-with European participants) is now guaranteed 4 LC games instead of 1. 

it would probably allow sides to develop - something we badly needed this season - instead of it being a constant battle to survive for a lot of clubs. 

 

It would probably allow for a longer summer and winter break and less midweek fixtures. It would likely mean replays wouldn’t need to be scrapped which seems a popular idea at the moment (I’m not sure either way if scrapping them is a good idea or not).

 

Ideally I’d like to see some kind of cross border competition (I think somebody a manager or commentator in England mentioned this recently?) - even if it was just an expanded Charity Shield with the 4 cup winners playing each other.

 

Thoughts?

Believe they done this in Chile last year due to the riots.

As much as I love beating hibs I think all teams should meet home and away once

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Sportsound starting now. 

 

Going to debate it all. 

 

"Daryl Broadfoot representing the Scottish FA"

 

Unfortunately its Pat Bonner, Stephen Craigan, Derek Ferguson, Allan Preston, Willie Miller. Richard Gordon. 

Edited by Mikey1874
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16 team leagues was what UEFA set down 20/30 years ago as the template everyone should follow. 

 

30 games. 

Edited by Mikey1874
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5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

16 team leagues was what UEFA set down 20/30 years ago as the template everyone should follow. 


Something we would and should have had a long time ago had it not been for the tail wagging the dog and the insistence on four OF games. Then there’s the folk that whine about how shit it was having “meaningless games” when we had a bigger league years ago... an argument I’ve never really got since play off would provide an added incentive, and even if there were some meaningless fixtures, it’s better than the current boring old shite we have been subjected to for so long now.

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Either Ayr United or Dunfermline to take the final spot but as it stands a 16 team league could be:

 

 

Aberdeen
Ayr United
Celtic
Dundee
Dundee United
Hamilton Academical
Heart of Midlothian
Hibernian
Inverness CT
Kilmarnock
Livingston
Motherwell
Rangers

Ross County
St. Johnstone
St. Mirren

 

 

Providing a good number of derbies including the Old Firm, Edinburgh, Dundee and Highland.

 

 

Edited by kila
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The OF don’t want a bigger league because it means teams round about them can potentially get a higher points tally from getting more points from lesser teams. Rather than them typically losing a large chunk to the OF.
Pair that with the lost revenue of the bigot show and teams can slowly get closer financially. Why would they want to go for that. 

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After The Watershed

Posted this on another thread. 

 

This isn't just about relegation, promotion and champions. Looking at the championship you have seven clubs who could have a chance of the play offs. How could you pick one? When would a play off happen? Clubs can sign players in the summer and have better teams than they do now prior to the play off. 

 

A lot of Scottish clubs will be hit hard financially and may not survive if the status quo is in place next season. As a measure to minimise the effects on clubs the leagues should be increased in size. Premier becomes a 22 league division and the second tier a 20. This would provide security to clubs knowing they may not have to spend as much on wages as they normally would in the top flight to stay up. Cloths can be cut to keep clubs alive. 

 

Relgate three and have two promoted and a play off for the third. 

 

The league can then put further plans to restructure back to how it is or something different in 2-4 years time if the clubs wanted. 

 

As for TV, if sky didn't like it then BT would step back in. Might not be as much money but then again maybe the Scottish league should look at streaming games themselves. 

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LarrysRightFoot

 Chick Dung has just touched on this and I don’t really agree with his solution but what happens with players contracts.

 

Postponement won’t work as players will be out of contract by the time play would resume. How would that affect games?
 

Also the transfer window what would happen with that? 

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south morocco
2 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

 Chick Dung has just touched on this and I don’t really agree with his solution but what happens with players contracts.

 

Postponement won’t work as players will be out of contract by the time play would resume. How would that affect games?
 

Also the transfer window what would happen with that? 

Agreed and Loan deals finish too usually  around June 30th ?

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3 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

 Chick Dung has just touched on this and I don’t really agree with his solution but what happens with players contracts.

 

Postponement won’t work as players will be out of contract by the time play would resume. How would that affect games?
 

Also the transfer window what would happen with that? 

 

I think UEFA / FIFA will suspend or amend transfer windows.

 

Contracts could be extended as they also said on the radio but it is a major issue. 

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