They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)

[The Verminator]

11 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

It’s being leaked all over the place in that last hour. Tv companies will see to that or the continuation of the season behind closed doors. 

Can you provide a link please - been listening to 5 Live all day and just now and they certainly havent mentioned it

[The Verminator]

11 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

It’s being leaked all over the place in that last hour. Tv companies will see to that or the continuation of the season behind closed doors. 

Can you provide a link please - been listening to 5 Live all day and just now and they certainly havent mentioned it

[Last Laff]

15 minutes ago, The Verminator said:

Can you provide a link please - been listening to 5 Live all day and just now and they certainly havent mentioned it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.football.london/premier-league/coronavirus-covid-fa-premier-league-17922845.amp

 

comments made to other clubs and what directors have been telling supporters.  Voiding the season won’t be an option. 

[The Verminator]

7 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.football.london/premier-league/coronavirus-covid-fa-premier-league-17922845.amp

 

comments made to other clubs and what directors have been telling supporters.  Voiding the season won’t be an option. 

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you originally said!! In fact, it totally contradicts it

 

England are going to go for current positions and promote the clubs in the top two.  Tv money will see to that.  Nobody is going to give a shit in the grand scheme of things if we go down or stay up,  they will care about the clubs all over the world making the champions league/Europa league next season.  The SPFL will rule for current standings,  the TV deal in Scotland will see to that as will the lower league clubs on the SPFL board who won’t vote for anything but hearts going down to make them money next season. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by The Verminator

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

It isn't.    D-Utd are materially disadvantaged.    It's an unnecessary complication and likely dispute.     

 

The only sensible plan is to simplify to the max.

 

 

Yeah, thinking about it, I said on another thread. 

 

Complete this season between Sept-jan.

 

Next season a shortened league Jan to May. 

No lc. 

 

Could do this for almost all European competition. 

 

As this season would be finished and next seasons changes known, it would mitagte legal action. 

 

European places could revert back to last season if pushed, but Likley be a uefa decision anyway and not needed if they are completing this seasons stuff. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yeah, thinking about it, I said on another thread. 

 

Complete this season between Sept-jan.

 

Next season a shortened league Jan to May. 

No lc. 

 

Could do this for almost all European competition. 

 

As this season would be finished and next seasons changes known, it would mitagte legal action. 

 

European places could revert back to last season if pushed, but Likley be a uefa decision anyway and not needed if they are completing this seasons stuff. 

 

It's an idea with some logic but still has some risks.    The latest information suggests this virus could still be circulating in September.    It will be not far beyond peak when players are doing a pre-season.

 

I say there could easily be an enormous problem even beginning next season on normal terms.    It would be better to build in as much flexibility to the programme ahead for next season to exist on near normal terms.     Cramming the calendar with fixtures for a catch-up on season 19/20 plus a truncated 20/21 may leave insufficient headroom to mitigate for unknown problems.     It's safer to simplify the plan.    Remove complexity.    Remove complications.    Remove risk.

 

Burn this season.    Plan,  simplify and mitigate for next season.   

[Jamboelite]

55 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

England will also likely compensate the relegated teams very well if that happens. 

 

 

 

To the tune of £150-200m each ? As that is what they make.

 

I hardly think so.

[jock _turd]

29 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.football.london/premier-league/coronavirus-covid-fa-premier-league-17922845.amp

 

comments made to other clubs and what directors have been telling supporters.  Voiding the season won’t be an option. 

As they say in the trade... you are full of shoite. It could very well be impossible to finish this season even behind closed doors. If players from teams within the various football associations get infected the very fact that games will be behind closed doors would be negated and clubs themselves would have to close down.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It's an idea with some logic but still has some risks.    The latest information suggests this virus could still be circulating in September.    It will be not far beyond peak when players are doing a pre-season.

 

I say there could easily be an enormous problem even beginning next season on normal terms.    It would be better to build in as much flexibility to the programme ahead for next season to exist on near normal terms.     Cramming the calendar with fixtures for a catch-up on season 19/20 plus a truncated 20/21 may leave insufficient headroom to mitigate for unknown problems.     It's safer to simplify the plan.    Remove complexity.    Remove complications.    Remove risk.

 

Burn this season.    Plan,  simplify and mitigate for next season.   

 

 

The dates were for example, could be moved either way, it ticks a lot of boxes and mitigates the issues of null and void or wrapping up the season now, I was thinking more across all European leagues rather than just ours, I think it will be a joined up approach, can't have some leagues ending, some contueing, some null and void etc, surely it will be pretty uniform across Europe and likely tied in with the what happens with the European competitions.

 

for example my Sept/ oct- Jan thing would mean all European football that is disrupted is tied up and then the leagues all have a shorter one to then get back in with the normal season.

 

Ending the season as is now has massive issues.

 

Null and void would be the likeliest but teams like Liverpool would be rightly aggrieved.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

To the tune of £150-200m each ? As that is what they make.

 

I hardly think so.

 

 

would not surprise me if that is the only issue , because a legal challenge would be worth that. But the ucl places and stuff is also up for grabs as is the FA cup so relegation isn't the only issue that is up in the air and likely be far more challenges than just from teams relegated.

[Victorian]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

They could award provisional league awards, so the current leaders win, and maybe use that as a basis for UEFA competitions. 

 

But I can't see how rolling over games is practical, as you say. I think they are going to have to just call this season done, with no cup winners for instance, in the cups that haven't completed up till this date. 

 

But it is a straight forward provisional thing, so I can't see clubs getting relegated or promoted, in general. They will have discussions, and some teams might want to accept relegation/promotion. But I reckon we just have to write all of it off. 

 

It is such an exceptional circumstance, that is affecting every country. 

 

Yep.    There are too many unknowns and probable future problems to jump the gun too early on complex planning.    The whole economy and the very fabric of our current way of life is in real jeopardy.    Clubs need the maximum amount of time to make plans and the minimum amount of complexity to deal with.     

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

The dates were for example, could be moved either way, it ticks a lot of boxes and mitigates the issues of null and void or wrapping up the season now, I was thinking more across all European leagues rather than just ours, I think it will be a joined up approach, can't have some leagues ending, some contueing, some null and void etc, surely it will be pretty uniform across Europe and likely tied in with the what happens with the European competitions.

 

for example my Sept/ oct- Jan thing would mean all European football that is disrupted is tied up and then the leagues all have a shorter one to then get back in with the normal season.

 

Ending the season as is now has massive issues.

 

Null and void would be the likeliest but teams like Liverpool would be rightly aggrieved.

 

If it has to be a hamonised,  uniform approach then it will be the most simple.

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

They could award provisional league awards, so the current leaders win, and maybe use that as a basis for UEFA competitions. 

 

But I can't see how rolling over games is practical, as you say. I think they are going to have to just call this season done, with no cup winners for instance, in the cups that haven't completed up till this date. 

 

But it is a straight forward provisional thing, so I can't see clubs getting relegated or promoted, in general. They will have discussions, and some teams might want to accept relegation/promotion. But I reckon we just have to write all of it off. 

 

It is such an exceptional circumstance, that is affecting every country. 

 

 

It's practical if you lose or shorten next season tbh.

 

Just a bit of a headache, but at least every team would know that next season is shortened, rather than just ended like this.

 

Take a bit out of the box thinking and a joined up approach across Europe but it removes many of the issues associated with voiding the standings or finishing as is.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

If it has to be a hamonised,  uniform approach then it will be the most simple.

 

 

 

 

Putting a plan for next season and running all the affected leagues from sept/ oct, even Nov to jan/ feb is pretty simple tbh.

 

The likely hood is next season will be effected anyway, so actually moving it and shortening it is actually more simple than waiting and having a sliding date of start while trying to sort out this mess.

 

Null and void and finishing as is have arguments for and against and likely anyone arguing will be biased in favour of what suits them.

 

Even doing that, next season will unlikely start on time anyway so the headache starts all over again.

 

finishing this season across Europe even if between Nov- Janish and having a half league between Feb and May/ June actually is pretty simple.

 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

The longer it takes to resume this season, the more problems stack up.

 

Many players, for example, will have it written into contracts that they get several weeks paid holiday each year - perhaps up to five.

 

Will they then insist on going off to Benidorm for five weeks before the 2020/21 season starts - delaying that - or will clubs try to buy out that holiday entitlement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stuarty1874]

In Germany:

 

13 March 2020 – Following today’s developments in relation to new corona infections and the corresponding suspicious cases in direct connection with the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga 2, the Executive Committee of the DFL Deutsche Fußball Liga has decided at short notice to postpone Matchday 26 of both leagues. In addition, as planned, the committee will recommend to the Ordinary Assembly of the professional clubs, which meets on Monday, that match operations be suspended until 2 April, i.e. including the international break.

 

This decision was driven by the fact that in the course of the day there were suspected infections with the coronavirus surrounding several clubs and their teams and further infections cannot be ruled out. Previously in Bundesliga 2, not only the Hannover 96 team, but also the entire team of 1. FC Nürnberg were placed in quarantine by the local health authorities.

In the international break, it is intended that all clubs decide on the next steps, taking into account the knowledge available at that point, also with regard to the international match calendar for example. The aim is still to complete the season by the summer – from a sporting perspective, but also in particular because, for some clubs, ending the season prematurely could have consequences which threaten their existence.

Last Monday the DFL Executive Committee had already declared that if games were to be postponed, then in the view of the DFL Executive Committee, this should relate only to entire matchdays. On the basis of the latest information, this was no longer possible.

 

[Gorgie_Rules]

I reckon UEFA will declare that all leagues across Europe are in ending with current standings, not on Tuesday as they will allow some weeks for this to clear, but reckon the announcement will be made mid to late April.

 

I don’t believe that is legal or fair, but I think the general consensus in media and among fans will be that that is the fairest way, and we’ll just have to accept the fact that we’re going down due to being brutal for months.

[qferryjam]

34 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yeah, thinking about it, I said on another thread. 

 

Complete this season between Sept-jan.

 

Next season a shortened league Jan to May. 

No lc. 

 

Could do this for almost all European competition. 

 

As this season would be finished and next seasons changes known, it would mitagte legal action. 

 

European places could revert back to last season if pushed, but Likley be a uefa decision anyway and not needed if they are completing this seasons stuff. 

That makes no sense at all it would be totally different teams playing , for instance hearts could spend big bringing in better players teams could loose managers we could nick the  Motherwell or Livingston manager and stay up , finishing the season 2/3 of the way is a non starter . It’s either play games before 1st of June or void the season anything else would mean  the results are tainted

[Boab]

Just now, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

The longer it takes to resume this season, the more problems stack up.

 

Many players, for example, will have it written into contracts that they get several weeks paid holiday each year - perhaps up to five.

 

Will they then insist on going off to Benidorm for five weeks before the 2020/21 season starts - delaying that - or will clubs try to buy out that holiday entitlement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Benidorm’s shut, mate !
😷

 

[Jamboelite]

8 minutes ago, stuarty1874 said:

In Germany:

 

13 March 2020 – Following today’s developments in relation to new corona infections and the corresponding suspicious cases in direct connection with the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga 2, the Executive Committee of the DFL Deutsche Fußball Liga has decided at short notice to postpone Matchday 26 of both leagues. In addition, as planned, the committee will recommend to the Ordinary Assembly of the professional clubs, which meets on Monday, that match operations be suspended until 2 April, i.e. including the international break.

 

This decision was driven by the fact that in the course of the day there were suspected infections with the coronavirus surrounding several clubs and their teams and further infections cannot be ruled out. Previously in Bundesliga 2, not only the Hannover 96 team, but also the entire team of 1. FC Nürnberg were placed in quarantine by the local health authorities.

In the international break, it is intended that all clubs decide on the next steps, taking into account the knowledge available at that point, also with regard to the international match calendar for example. The aim is still to complete the season by the summer – from a sporting perspective, but also in particular because, for some clubs, ending the season prematurely could have consequences which threaten their existence.

Last Monday the DFL Executive Committee had already declared that if games were to be postponed, then in the view of the DFL Executive Committee, this should relate only to entire matchdays. On the basis of the latest information, this was no longer possible.

 

So still planning to complete in the summer.

 

I see that will be the plan for alot of leagues.

 

Doesnt cover off contracts etc...

[Last Laff]

26 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

As they say in the trade... you are full of shoite. It could very well be impossible to finish this season even behind closed doors. If players from teams within the various football associations get infected the very fact that games will be behind closed doors would be negated and clubs themselves would have to close down.

Who said they won’t?  They won’t void the season though.  If you’re going to call me full of whatever at least engage your brain mate.   

[Last Laff]

59 minutes ago, The Verminator said:

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you originally said!! In fact, it totally contradicts it

 

England are going to go for current positions and promote the clubs in the top two.  Tv money will see to that.  Nobody is going to give a shit in the grand scheme of things if we go down or stay up,  they will care about the clubs all over the world making the champions league/Europa league next season.  The SPFL will rule for current standings,  the TV deal in Scotland will see to that as will the lower league clubs on the SPFL board who won’t vote for anything but hearts going down to make them money next season. 

It’s exactly what will happen. Tv and sponsorships will see to it.  England are already prepared to do so.  The spfl with vote for it too. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Last Laff

[The Verminator]

Just now, Last Laff said:

It’s exactly what will happen. Tv and sponsorships will see to it. 

But the link you sent said completely the opposite

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, qferryjam said:

That makes no sense at all it would be totally different teams playing , for instance hearts could spend big bringing in better players teams could loose managers we could nick the  Motherwell or Livingston manager and stay up , finishing the season 2/3 of the way is a non starter . It’s either play games before 1st of June or void the season anything else would mean  the results are tainted

 

 

Teams would need to agree to it ofc. 

 

Would be same teams, just with a transfer window thrown in. 

Not that dramatic tbh. 

 

It's either that or as is or null and void and the arguments and law suits with continue 

 

Teams like Liverpool and Utd will have massive issue with null and void. 

Quite rightly as well, especially as there are other options. 

 

 

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.football.london/premier-league/coronavirus-covid-fa-premier-league-17922845.amp

 

comments made to other clubs and what directors have been telling supporters.  Voiding the season won’t be an option. 

Yer some guy. 😏

That article in no way says that current places will decide promotion relegation etc. 

It merely emphasises the problems that exist trying to sort out this unfortunate situation. 

The return of football matches could be a long time away perhaps the start of next season might be delayed as well. 

In that case the only way forward would be to scrap this season due to fixtures not being completed. 

The League Titles and Cup would be with held and disregarded in the records. 

Tough on Celtic, Liverpool and

Dundee Utd. 

[Victorian]

38 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

 

 

Putting a plan for next season and running all the affected leagues from sept/ oct, even Nov to jan/ feb is pretty simple tbh.

 

The likely hood is next season will be effected anyway, so actually moving it and shortening it is actually more simple than waiting and having a sliding date of start while trying to sort out this mess.

 

Null and void and finishing as is have arguments for and against and likely anyone arguing will be biased in favour of what suits them.

 

Even doing that, next season will unlikely start on time anyway so the headache starts all over again.

 

finishing this season across Europe even if between Nov- Janish and having a half league between Feb and May/ June actually is pretty simple.

 

 

It's not.   It's a complete over-complication and totally unnecessary.    Badly exposed to havoc if the virus causes problems for longer than current projections.

 

Absolutely not.   It wont fly.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

Yer some guy. 😏

That article in no way says that current places will decide promotion relegation etc. 

It merely emphasises the problems that exist trying to sort out this unfortunate situation. 

The return of football matches could be a long time away perhaps the start of next season might be delayed as well. 

In that case the only way forward would be to scrap this season due to fixtures not being completed. 

The League Titles and Cup would be with held and disregarded in the records. 

Tough on Celtic, Liverpool and

Dundee Utd. 

 

 

The thing is, it's "not the only way forward". 

 

Standings could be used as they are

 

If it was the only way there wouldn't be a debate on here and it would already have been announced. 

 

 

For me it's the lesser of two evils and Likley less legal issues , but it's not the only way forward. 

[Bull's-eye]

We're all going to die.

 

What's left to discuss.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It's not.   It's a complete over-complication and totally unnecessary.    Badly exposed to havoc if the virus causes problems for longer than current projections.

 

Absolutely not.   It wont fly.

 

 

Likley not bit it's not overly complicated. 

It's actually the opposite in many ways as this season is concluded and there are no arguments about void v as is. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Bull's-eye said:

We're all going to die.

 

What's left to discuss.

Levein 

[Hearts007]

I say it will end up being declared void

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

39 minutes ago, Boab said:

Benidorm’s shut, mate !
😷

 

 

Say it ain't so, Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

It's up to the clubs, and the leagues and whatnot.

 

But most clubs plan ahead, and that planning is already in place. 

Even small disruptions to the rhythm can cause issues.

 

This event here isn't a mere disruption. It is a global health pandemic. 

I personally see no sense in trying to play a stack of games into the future. 

 

And I think the simplest way of dealing with it, is provisionally ending the leagues now.  Voiding any incomplete Cup competitions. And no promotion/relegation, as a general rule. 

And preparing for next season. And next season might not happen. 

 

I'm almost 50, and I have never seen anything like these global measures. And I am not expecting things to get better, for some time. 

So that is why I disagree with you on this point. 

 

This guy gets it.    Simplify.   Maximum planning time.    

[Hearts007]

4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I agree.

It will end as a *Provisional, sort of thing. 

yep ya cant end it and then award league titles and relegate teams

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

It's up to the clubs, and the leagues and whatnot.

 

But most clubs plan ahead, and that planning is already in place. 

Even small disruptions to the rhythm can cause issues.

 

This event here isn't a mere disruption. It is a global health pandemic. 

I personally see no sense in trying to play a stack of games into the future. 

 

And I think the simplest way of dealing with it, is provisionally ending the leagues now.  Voiding any incomplete Cup competitions. And no promotion/relegation, as a general rule. 

And preparing for next season. And next season might not happen. 

 

I'm almost 50, and I have never seen anything like these global measures. And I am not expecting things to get better, for some time. 

So that is why I disagree with you on this point. 

 

 

I agree but one could argue that the fairest was is to take the positions as is. 

 

Both have valid points. 

 

The point is, even although I want this for obvious reasons and think it is legally the best option, it is clearly not the only option. 

 

Folk will argue both ways to death what is the fairest option. 

 

Time will tell, I think null and void is Likley. 

 

 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

6 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I agree.

It will end as a *Provisional, sort of thing. 

 

Are you talking about Celtic again?

[jock _turd]

Well the tic are well in with things of a  "provisional" nature are they not ?

[Bazzas right boot]

All this because some nugget ate a raw bat. 

 

 

[jockmac]

10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

It's up to the clubs, and the leagues and whatnot.

 

But most clubs plan ahead, and that planning is already in place. 

Even small disruptions to the rhythm can cause issues.

 

This event here isn't a mere disruption. It is a global health pandemic. 

I personally see no sense in trying to play a stack of games into the future. 

 

And I think the simplest way of dealing with it, is provisionally ending the leagues now.  Voiding any incomplete Cup competitions. And no promotion/relegation, as a general rule. 

And preparing for next season. And next season might not happen. 

 

I'm almost 50, and I have never seen anything like these global measures. And I am not expecting things to get better, for some time. 

So that is why I disagree with you on this point. 

Excellent post, totally agree

[Hearts007]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

All this because some nugget ate a raw bat. 

 

 

Wisnae ozzy o was it?

[Victorian]

Just allow Celtic to keep a title they didn't win.     Rangers got to keep titles they shouldn't have won.    They can both stew in their own shite after that.

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Victorian said:

Just allow Celtic to keep a title they didn't win.     Rangers got to keep titles they shouldn't have won.    They can both stew in their own shite after that.

 

😂😂😂

[sac]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

All this because some nugget ate a raw bat. 

 

 

Or a bat ate a raw nugget?

[Psychicjambo]

Teams that are losing revenue. Say St mirren fur example  they had 2800 hearts fans through  Tues.   Hamilton  would tahe about 150. So if they relegate us. A lot of clubs lose a lot of money.   Hibs would lose two Derby gates a season  if both where in top six or bottom 6.    So a lot of clubs don't want hearts to go diwn financially.  However the championship clubs would be delighted financially.  .   And the way things are just now  every penny counts and clubs are going to ha e to cut their cloth accordingly. . The keep telling is scottish football needs celtic and rangers. They can only fill one end 4 times a season. So what's the difference.  . Spfl will really have to consider this just as much re finance as fair play. 

[luckydug]

3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

It's up to the clubs, and the leagues and whatnot.

 

But most clubs plan ahead, and that planning is already in place. 

Even small disruptions to the rhythm can cause issues.

 

This event here isn't a mere disruption. It is a global health pandemic. 

I personally see no sense in trying to play a stack of games into the future. 

 

And I think the simplest way of dealing with it, is provisionally ending the leagues now.  Voiding any incomplete Cup competitions. And no promotion/relegation, as a general rule. 

And preparing for next season. And next season might not happen. 

 

I'm almost 50, and I have never seen anything like these global measures. And I am not expecting things to get better, for some time. 

So that is why I disagree with you on this point. 

People are talking as if there is a due end date to this Pandemic. 

 

 

[lmc1]

Aghhhhhh

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

You are doing a good job of arguing counter arguments (from my pov) @Smith's right boot , 

 

I can see why Neil Lennon and Scott Brown were/are so adamant, in their views. They are focused, and have put in a lot of work. And it means a lot to them. And Liverpool, and so many other teams. 

 

It's the biggest thing that has happened in my life, football wise, to consider voiding all incomplete leagues and cups in every country in the world. But I genuinely can't see any other option. 

 

And I am not doing it because it means we don't get relegated. I can't see any other valid option. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are other valid options. 

 

I agree with you, but there are other options. 

 

That is all I'm saying, too may folk are saying that " null and void/ provisional option is the only option, it's not. 

That is all I'm saying. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

12 minutes ago, sac said:

Or a bat ate a raw nugget?

🦇😂

[Jambos4life]

Iv read the the German league are talking about expanding the league so teams get promoted but no teams go down

[CJGJ]

Don't know if this has been posted

 

SPFL RULEBOOK Page 22 clause 17 

 

At the end of each Season (following completion of all League Matches in the Premiership in that Season) the Club in position 12 in the Premiership shall be relegated to play and be eligible to participate in the Championship for and during the next Season.’

 Clause’s 14 and 15

‘The Clubs for the time being entitled in terms of these Rules to participate in the Premiership shall, disregarding any abandoned or postponed matches, play in 38 League Matches in any one Season.’