Beast Boy Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, soonbe110 said: AB hasn’t taken legal advice. Think she said that in her interview that was aired today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: AB hasn’t taken legal advice. She was asked on the Sportsound interview today if she’d taken legal advice and she said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgieRules22 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 40 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: She was asked on the Sportsound interview today if she’d taken legal advice and she said no. I’d have been very surprised if she said yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said: I’d have been very surprised if she said yes. So you think she was lying or just that that you wouldn’t have expected her to take legal advice yet? Why would she lie about it, given that she had already said she would take legal advice if we were relegated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodLord Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Let’s be realistic here it’s looking more and more likely the season will be called.and we will be relegated.Unfortunately as bottom club we will get zero support from any other club who where need be are understandably are out to save their own skin. A very expensive and imho futile legal action would only make a further dent ito our dwindling reserves. Not the way I’d like to see us relegated but feck me let’s not kid ourselves we’ve had chance after chance to not be bottom. We need to face up to it and start planning for life in the Championship, anything different will be an extraordinary bonus. It’s the indecision which is killing us so if it’s to be relegation let’s get on with it, we didn’t do too bad last time we came up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: The thing is if the the fixtures cannot be completed then that will form the basis of any decision. Awarding celtic 1st place can piss off rangers, but atm they are 1st. So if the season is to be ended, tough tittie. What will they argue? We are bottom, so again tough tittie on us. However, relegation like titles does not have to be handed out, if even a team is bottom or top. Titles are a sporting matter. Relegation, euro places will all be business decisions and in the context of what is happening mitagating the damage should be the name of the game. Motherwell and rangers are in the European places, hibs might have got there, Aberdeen might have. But they aren't at this time. Simple. Not promoting a club and not relegating another although harsh, is a form of mitagation. You are keeping them as is. You aren't forcing a negative change on one to benefit another. You are minimising the changes and harm. Always wise, legally. Not everyone will be happy but mitagation should be the name of the game, in the event of non completion of the fixtures. We should benefit from that. Some clubs won't. Completion of fixtures given the pandemic, contracts, transfer windows, insurance, crowds and health of players is looking like fantasy stuff unless next season is amended in advance to accommodate this seasons remaining ones. Nevertheless, titles and relegation are not linked and will be treated separately. Yawn! If we cant play the games all teams should just suck it up , ffs. take our medicine. tbqh we've been absolutely ****ing shite for ages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said: You’re using the same logic for why Hearts should be relegated. If Dundee or Rangers can’t argue that they definitely would have got promoted or won the league then it stands to reason that Hearts can’t argue that we would definitely have avoided relegation. We can’t be hypocrites about this. If anyone is going to CAS I can’t see their grounds of complaint being ifs buts and maybes. It will be based on whether the rules of the competition / sporting integrity have been broken. Taking your examples above even Celtic can’t argue that they would 100% have won the league. You've missed all my previous points tbh and not getting the point that I have put across, or maybe I haven't put it across well. In summary it's all about mitagating the damage caused, actual damage. Not pissing of fans, or ayes, maybe and buts. Not hypothetical damage depending on various scenerios, actual damage caused. Forced relegation is the opposite of mitagation. Also, as I don't think for commercial reasons null and void is an option-the declaring of winners deals with that, as the season mean't something and companies can't claim all their sponsorship money and fans can't get refunds back. Outwith completing the fixtures there will be teams and clubs that are unhappy, hence my point about any solution mitagating actual damages and loss as much as possible. Sporting "fairness" may take a back seat behind minimising legal and financial challenges. Edited April 5, 2020 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 48 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: You've missed all my previous points tbh and not getting the point that I have put across, or maybe I haven't put it across well. In summary it's all about mitagating the damage caused, actual damage. Not pissing of fans, or ayes, maybe and bits. Not hypothetical damage depending on various scenerios, actual damage caused. Forced relegation is the opposite of mitagation. Also, as I don't think for commercial reasons null and void is an option-the declaring of winners deals with that, as the season mean't something and companies can't claim all their sponsorship money and fans can't get refunds back. Outwith completing the fixtures there will be teams and clubs that are unhappy, hence my point about any solution mitagating actual damages and loss as much as possible. Sporting "fairness" may take a back seat behind minimising legal and financial challenges. I’ve never understood how there can be any difference between null and void and declaring the season over for tv, sponsorship or ST refunds. The arguments I’ve seen don’t make sense imo, if you’ve played 30 games the tv companies have shown the same number of games, the fans have seen the same number of games and the sponsors have been given the same advertising exposure, irrespective of whether it is null and void or declared early. Turning to England, from the article I read yesterday it looks like Sky and BT are taking that viewpoint as well since they are apparently looking for refunds if the fixtures are not fulfilled, irrespective of whether null and void or season ended now. May be different in Scotland, who knows. Regarding your other points, there is no solution that will leave everyone happy. Perhaps null and void is the only one that might avoid legal action but ado appears the least likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: You've missed all my previous points tbh and not getting the point that I have put across, or maybe I haven't put it across well. In summary it's all about mitagating the damage caused, actual damage. Not pissing of fans, or ayes, maybe and buts. Not hypothetical damage depending on various scenerios, actual damage caused. Forced relegation is the opposite of mitagation. Also, as I don't think for commercial reasons null and void is an option-the declaring of winners deals with that, as the season mean't something and companies can't claim all their sponsorship money and fans can't get refunds back. Outwith completing the fixtures there will be teams and clubs that are unhappy, hence my point about any solution mitagating actual damages and loss as much as possible. Sporting "fairness" may take a back seat behind minimising legal and financial challenges. Yes, the objective should be to protect as many teams as possible. Calling the league (give Celtic the title if they want) and restructuring does that. Just calling it now means us, Rangers, Dundee, Ayr, Caley, Thistle, Falkirk, Livingston, Hibs and other teams going down the leagues in with either a mathematical or very real chance of Europe, promotion, a title or staying up all have a genuine grievance and could all potentially lose a lot of money. On the other hand teams at the top of leagues or teams very close to relegation spots get an unfair advantage (Hamilton, St Mirren and Ross County for example) or teams are promoted or awarded a title (like Raith) early, or who get a European place now (like Aberdeen and Motherwell). There are various things that are fundamentally unfair about calling it after 30 games, some teams having had fewer home games against competitors being a big one as that will definitely have had an impact on current positions. Calling titles with no relegation and league reconstruction solves all of this. Teams at the top get awarded their titles (with asterisks). Teams at the bottom escape relegation and the extra associated financial issues, which has happened numerous times before for one reason or another. Virtually no team in the league reconstruction scenario can have a grievance other than teams with a very real mathematical chance of winning a title (albeit one with an asterix), like Falkirk. But as they get promoted anyhow, they'll be fine with it. Really the only team who would express a grievance (as ever) would be Rangers because Celtic would get the title. But they'll live. (Maybe) Edited April 5, 2020 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: I’ve never understood how there can be any difference between null and void and declaring the season over for tv, sponsorship or ST refunds. The arguments I’ve seen don’t make sense imo, if you’ve played 30 games the tv companies have shown the same number of games, the fans have seen the same number of games and the sponsors have been given the same advertising exposure, irrespective of whether it is null and void or declared early. Turning to England, from the article I read tyesterday it looks like Sky and BT are taking that viewpoint as well since they are apparently looking for refunds if the fixtures are not fulfilled, irrespective of whether null and void or season ended now. May be different in Scotland, who knows. Regarding your other points, there is no solution that will leave everyone happy. Perhaps null and void is the only one that might avoid legal action but ado appears the least likely. Declaring the season null and void then giving out euro places and cash money on where teams are now is contradictory as well tho. Cash and placings still need to given on some premise. How can it be void if you then give the cash on league standing..... Null and void when broken down has lots of issues, none more so than the games played have actually happened, it's not a computer save I think we'll see more leagues declare winners as time goes by and the realization that games cannot be completed becomes apparent. Too many leagues think they can be completed, it's false hope imo. I also think there will be no forced relegation. Could be wrong tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Yes, the objective should be to protect as many teams as possible. Calling the league (give Celtic the title if they want) and restructuring does that. Just calling it now means us, Rangers, Dundee, Ayr, Caley, Thistle, Falkirk, Livingston, Hibs and other teams going down the leagues in with either a mathematical or very real chance of Europe, promotion, a title or staying up all have a genuine grievance and could all potentially lose a lot of money. On the other hand teams at the top of leagues or teams very close to relegation spots get an unfair advantage (Hamilton, St Mirren and Ross County for example) or teams are promoted or awarded a title (like Raith) early, or who get a European place now (like Aberdeen and Motherwell). There are various things that are fundamentally unfair about calling it after 30 games, some teams having had fewer home games against competitors being a big one as that will definitely have had an impact on current positions. Calling titles with no relegation and league reconstruction solves all of this. Teams at the top get awarded their titles (with asterisks). Teams at the bottom escape relegation and the extra associated financial issues, which has happened numerous times before for one reason or another. Virtually no team in the league reconstruction scenario can have a grievance other than teams with a very real mathematical chance of winning a title (albeit one with an asterix), like Falkirk. But as they get promoted anyhow, they'll be fine with it. Really the only team who would express a grievance (as ever) would be Rangers because Celtic would get the title. But they'll live. (Maybe) Yip, well explained Even then, celtic getting the title does no damage to rangers, it would be a sporting grievance not a legal or financial one. (assuming prize money and euro placings have to be given out on as things are in the event on no further fixtures) What you've said and I have tried to put across is that it should all be about limiting the actual, tangible and practical damage caused by the solution. Not the the possible opportunities and the ifs, buts, maybe aye and maybe naw of all the gripes. Actual damage caused based on circumstances as they are now, now is where we are are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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