Lewis Moore

[Saint Jambo]

18 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Moore barely played, neither did Cochrane. Morison is at a level he should have been placed at a better club. As you say, I don’t know if things are being handled correctly with loaning out our youngsters but neither do you. I’m drawing a conclusion by the fact they all too often seem to come back no better than when they went. I’m not convinced it’s being handled right or that it benefits players at all in most cases. 

 

Dunfermline had 16 league games during the time Cochrane was there. He featured in 12 of them. He was sub for the first 3, but after that he started over half the games.

 

I agree it would be better if Morrison was at a higher level but the balance in the decision would have been finding a club where Hearts could be confident that he would play regularly and close enough to Edinburgh for him to continue to train with Hearts. Its harsh to criticise Hearts for both putting players out on loan but not playing and putting players out on loan to too low a level.

 

Moore played 32 times for Forfar last year. His loan move to Falkirk clearly didn't work out, but equally clearly didn't do that much harm as he has been able to come in and play for the first team on his return. Doesn't that seem like he has come back better from the last 18months on loan than when he left?

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Dunfermline had 16 league games during the time Cochrane was there. He featured in 12 of them. He was sub for the first 3, but after that he started over half the games.

 

I agree it would be better if Morrison was at a higher level but the balance in the decision would have been finding a club where Hearts could be confident that he would play regularly and close enough to Edinburgh for him to continue to train with Hearts. Its harsh to criticise Hearts for both putting players out on loan but not playing and putting players out on loan to too low a level.

 

Moore played 32 times for Forfar last year. His loan move to Falkirk clearly didn't work out, but equally clearly didn't do that much harm as he has been able to come in and play for the first team on his return. Doesn't that seem like he has come back better from the last 18months on loan than when he left

 

 

So Cochrane started 6 games? I suppose that plus sub appearances makes it worthwhile. He’s not featured since he’s been back but His development seems to me to have stalled but that could easily be him and not hearts. 
 

I fail to see what benefit Morrison is getting playing at that level that he wouldn’t get staying at the club. I just don’t get it at all. He was appearing regularly for us last season. 
 

Sending Moore to Falkirk was a bad move, pure and simple. The fact he’s came through it is a credit to him and Hearts since he’s been back.

 

I’m not just out to have a pop at hearts but it’s disappointing only to have Hickey come through until Henderson and Moore featured recently and I feel something hasn’t been right. 

[The Fonz]

46 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Given he's broken into the first team and is playing well, doesn't that mean we've developed him well?

 

Admit it, you have no idea how loans work at Hearts, like most of us. The evidence suggests we do a generally good job of developing players and use the loan system pretty well. Some players take their chance after a loan spell - Neilson, Gordon, Walker and others - and others don't and they tend to drop down a league for first team football.  

 

Put it this way, name a young player who has been released by us who immediately signed for a team at our level and then held down to a place. 

From what he’s said in the article it sounds like he’s progressed in spite of how we’ve managed his development as opposed to being a result of it. 
 

Of the players you’ve mentioned the most recent loan spell was Jamie Walker in 2012. 
 

Your final point is valid, but it’s a concern that we don’t have any significant players coming through here or at a similar level. It points to a much larger failure in youth development that goes beyond just loans. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

 

So Cochrane started 6 games? I suppose that plus sub appearances makes it worthwhile. He’s not featured since he’s been back but His development seems to me to have stalled but that could easily be him and not hearts. 
 

I fail to see what benefit Morrison is getting playing at that level that he wouldn’t get staying at the club. I just don’t get it at all. He was appearing regularly for us last season. 
 

Sending Moore to Falkirk was a bad move, pure and simple. The fact he’s came through it is a credit to him and Hearts since he’s been back.

 

I’m not just out to have a pop at hearts but it’s disappointing only to have Hickey come through until Henderson and Moore featured recently and I feel something hasn’t been right. 

 

Who would you play Morrison in place of right now? Meshino Henderson, Moore and Walker all look better options.

 

Are you forgetting about Irving?

Edited March 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Pasquale for King]

Heartbreaking for someone his age to go through that. I hope he keeps improving and earns a new contract in the summer. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, The Fonz said:

From what he’s said in the article it sounds like he’s progressed in spite of how we’ve managed his development as opposed to being a result of it. 
 

Of the players you’ve mentioned the most recent loan spell was Jamie Walker in 2012. 
 

Your final point is valid, but it’s a concern that we don’t have any significant players coming through here or at a similar level. It points to a much larger failure in youth development that goes beyond just loans. 

 

We have Irving and Hickey who both look very good. Henderson and Moore look promising, but I hold out more hope for Irving and Hickey. Henderson, Moore and Brandon are all good squad players for us though. So that's five players. Cochrane and MacDonald will hopefully force their way back in after looking initially very promising.

 

Can you point to other clubs with more young players? Hibs, Aberdeen.... ?

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Who would you play Morrison in place of right now? Meshino Henderson, Moore and Walker all look better options.

 

Are you forgetting about Irving?

Sorry did forget about Irving. Was only reading about his Scotland call up half an hour ago duh! My point is not that Morrison would be starting every game but surely he’s past learning at such a low level against such poor players? He’ll come up against better opponents in the reserve games he plays in. 
 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Sorry did forget about Irving. Was only reading about his Scotland call up half an hour ago duh! My point is not that Morrison would be starting every game but surely he’s past learning at such a low level against such poor players? He’ll come up against better opponents in the reserve games he plays in. 
 

 

 

Think it might be a sign Morrison is on his way out, unless he does well on loan and gets another chance like Moore has. He's following a similar pattern to Zanatta. Seemed highly rated and got some first team chances. Did quite well in some games, but punted on loan multiple times then eventually released at age 21/22 when it must have become clear he wouldn't make it at Hearts. Morrison's almost at that age when it's make or break for his time at Hearts.

Edited March 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Think it might be a sign Morrison is on his way out, unless he does well on loan and gets another chance like Moore has. He's following a similar patter to Zanatta. Seemed highly rated and got some first team chances. Did quite well in some games, but punted on loan multiple times then eventually released at age 21/22 when it must have become clear he wouldn't make it at Hearts.

Aye maybe. You and @Saint Jambo have made some very good points tbf. I get loans have a place but I just hope more of our younger players stay around the first team squad rather than being sent on loan while we hire journeyman pros with no real future at the club who do a mediocre job at best. 
 

i also hope everything is being done to find the best for for the young guys who do go out on loan. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by GinRummy

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Aye maybe. You and @Saint Jambo have made some very good points tbf. I get loans have a place but I just hope more of our younger players stay around the first team squad rather than being sent on loan while we hire journeyman pros with no real future at the club who do a mediocre job at best. 

 

For me it's not really about the loan system. One of the best things about supporting Hearts over the years for me is we have always seemed to bring through more young players to the first team than other teams around us, including a lot of very good ones who have ended up playing at a high level for a long time.

Edited March 10, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

For me it's not really about the loan system. One of the best things about supporting Hearts over the years for me is we have always seemed to bring through more young players to the first team than other teams around us, including a lot of very good ones who have ended up playing at a high level for a long time.

Historically we do have a good record. Hopefully that continues. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Historically we do have a good record. Hopefully that continues. 

 

Yeah. The really good players like Paterson, Hickey, McLaren, Robbo, Levein, Mackay, Bowman, Webster, Ritchie, Naysmith, Johnston... establish themselves at a young age and don't need to go on loan. The others get sent on loan I assume because they're not ready. Some like Neilson, Walker and Gordon then push on from that, while others don't. No idea if it's an attitude thing or what it is when some players make it and others that seem initially more talented don't.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yeah. The really good players like Paterson, Hickey, McLaren, Robbo, Levein, Mackay, Bowman, Webster, Ritchie, Naysmith, Johnston... establish themselves at a young age and don't need to go on loan. The others get sent on loan I assume because they're not ready. Some like Neilson, Walker and Gordon then push on from that, while others don't. No idea if it's an attitude thing or what it is when some players make it and others that seem initially more talented don't.

There’s no doubt sometimes it’s just a player not willing to make the commitment. Imagining myself at 16-20 years old i can imagine the distractions that can lead to a career failing. Hopefully we’ll see more players like Hickey and Irving coming through. 

[Coco]

57 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

When the poster above said Naysmith was already announced as Loans Manager when Moore joined Falkirk, it is worth highlighting the timeline...

- 6th August - Naysmith announced as Loans Manager

- 8th August - Moore announced as having joined Falkirk

 

It seems pretty hard to believe that Naysmith was involved in negotiating Moore's move to Falkirk given that timeline. Posters criticising the club would seem more credible if they were saying 'it's awful that the club were handling loans so poorly, I'm really pleased that we've addressed this by bringing in a loans manager which was clearly needed'. Those using this as an opportunity to criticise Hearts having a Loans Manager come across as ill-informed and like they are just looking for the next stick to use to beat the club (or former management team).

I would expect the Loans Manager to have been involved immediately.  And in fact Gary Naysmith had been involved before being announced.  

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/gary-naysmith-returns-as-loans-manager

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Coco said:

I would expect the Loans Manager to have been involved immediately.  And in fact Gary Naysmith had been involved before being announced.  

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/gary-naysmith-returns-as-loans-manager

 

What if the Falkirk manager just decided to try Moore as a LB after the loan went through? I'm pretty sure Gary Naysmith of all people knows what a LB is.

[Cruyff]

I like Lewis, he's a grafter and a good team player. Hopefully he can continue to improve further. 

[Bighenry]

I was puzzled when I heard he’d not played much for Falkirk. He really impressed me in his early first team games. That article certainly explains a lot

[gashauskis9]

Great kid with a great attitude.  Summed it up for me during the first half on Sat when he chased a lost cause and managed to nick the ball of the defender twice before winning a throw in down by the corner flag.  We need his energy, it allows Boyce, Naismith and Washington to play to their strengths and gives our defenders a breather.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

A coming of age story. Maybe we are seeing the early days of a great Hearts man. 
 

To think there are some roasters out there who think 21 is too old, you’re over the hill if you’ve not made it into the team by the time you’re 16-17. Nonsense.

 

Keep at it Lewis. Your dad would be proud of your performance at Easter Road we need the same again tonight. 

[Finlay James]

Well done to Lewis for turning things around and well done to Hearts for sticking by him.  He's shown a great attitude and hopefully his brush with the lower leagues makes him determined to to succeed at the top level.

 

Bonkers there are  posters on here slating the club on youth development when only this week, two players have been called up to the U-21's for the first time and we have others knocking on the door constantly.  Any excuse I suppose.

[davie1980]

15 hours ago, gnasher75 said:

 

Exactly what I was thinking! The bit about Falkirk thinking he was a  left back is pretty shocking.

 

Tells us more about Falkirks scouting set up

😄

[AGoodLaugh]

Sobering stuff. Had no idea he'd had such a horrible year. Shows real strength of character from him, but as others have said the main take away should be to never keep things like that bottled up. It's okay to be helped. 

[WheatfieldWarrior]

It's great to see him starting to realise some of the potential that he has shown as a youngster.

 

Next stage for him is to earn a contact for next season. - I think he is doing enough to earn one at the moment.

[OldGorgie]

His interview in the EEN today confirms that Hibs support is made up of the social dregs and scum of Edinburgh and the Lothians

[Austin MacGlee]

18 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Heartbreaking for someone his age to go through that. I hope he keeps improving and earns a new contract in the summer. 

This. Testament to the boy's character that he is talking about it openly now. Brave laddie, glad he's pushed on and put himself in our Daniel's team.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Austin MacGlee said:

This. Testament to the boy's character that he is talking about it openly now. Brave laddie, glad he's pushed on and put himself in our Daniel's team.

He looked quite mature in the interview, unfortunately these kind of experiences will do that to you. Hopefully after a successful career he will look back at this time and see it as a turning point in his life.