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The Trial of Alex Salmond


Trapper John McIntyre

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jack D and coke
40 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Wonder where all the "why would she lie about it?" die hard Nats are now.  Perhaps time for them to admit that sometimes they do and there is always two sides to every story.  An accusation should NEVER be the end of the story.  I despise Salmond and wish him no good thoughts whatsoever but I strongly believe in justice and fair trials.  Everyone does deserve a fair trial, absolutely everyone.  I have to hope Salmond's was fair and as previously said the verdict was the correct one.  A fat SNP prick he may be to me but if he is not a sex offender he is not a sex offender, simple as that.

Some other unionist posters would do well to read this. 
I don’t particularly like Salmond either but if you remove his name from this and just look at the evidence presented it was flimsy to say the least, you just couldn’t convict anyone on it imo although admittedly I’m not that up with law. 
Salmond is a threat to the British state and I’d like to bet they’ve been trying to get dirt on him for a long, long time. It’s kind of strange that after all his 30 years at WM or in front line politics the dirt came from within the SNP however weak and pathetic it turned out to be. I’d imagine some blood will be spilt there in the future now. 
It’s all a bit strange I have to admit. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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17 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

I have zero doubt he committed the offences. A clear pattern of behaviour and 9 testimonies.

See this is why we have the system of justice that we do. Evidence and the credibility and the weight that should be attached to it is tested and subject to cross examination in front of a jury so that they can decide if a person is guilty or not guilty (or not proven in Scotland) Its easy to say, based on the kind of person people might think he is and the snippets we've had in the media that  he was guilty. People with ALL the information in front of them decided there was reasonable doubt. That doesnt mean witnesses were outright lying, although of course some of them may have been. It means that having considered ALL the evidence they decide, bu a majority we havent been told yet (but it would be a substantial majority as required by the judge), over a period of some days of listening and some hours of deliberating, that there was reasonable doubt on all counts except one which they decided was not proven. I wonder what kind of justice system people want that could possibly be better or fairer than the one we have ? Go back to dipping suspected witches in the Nor Loch ?

Edited by JimmyCant
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It is high time for a shape up of the anonymoty laws too.  For me it is essential and should become a priority.  'Women A', 'Women B' etc but the accused will be named and shamed before a trial has begun.  It can also prejudice the trial.  Sadly, I feel that the only way people will stop false accusations, defamatory accusations etc is if it happens to them or serious punishent is given when proved to be the case.  I was called a child sex offender on here just last week.  It was typed by a poster as if he was asking me if I was going to the game at the weekend.  So nonchalantly.  It simply has to end.  It is destructive, highly damaging and truly unjust.  With every false accusation you make the real cases seem less severe.

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14 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

It is high time for a shape up of the anonymoty laws too.  For me it is essential and should become a priority.  'Women A', 'Women B' etc but the accused will be named and shamed before a trial has begun.  It can also prejudice the trial.  Sadly, I feel that the only way people will stop false accusations, defamatory accusations etc is if it happens to them or serious punishent is given when proved to be the case.  I was called a child sex offender on here just last week.  It was typed by a poster as if he was asking me if I was going to the game at the weekend.  So nonchalantly.  It simply has to end.  It is destructive, highly damaging and truly unjust.  With every false accusation you make the real cases seem less severe.

They werent introduced as Woman A and Woman B etc in the court. They gave evidence under their real names face to face with the accused and a jury. Everyone in the court knows who they are/were. It was covered by a reporting restriction in such cases and so it should be. For the trauma of sexual offences I think its right that women can give evidence against accused persons and not be subject to the glare of the media and thereby the judgement of the arseholes that inhabit our country, with an opinion on everything and knowledge of nothing.

 

If on the other hand a Woman has been proven to have lied and made up a rape charge or a sex offence charge and put a man, whoever he is and whatever kind of erse he is himself, through 18 months of daily wondering whether he is going to jail or not, should have that anonymity removed from them, as has happened many times already.

 

I dont know obviously what your marital or parental status is, or your sexual preferences, but put yourself in this position. If someone close to you is raped or molested or alleges that they have been, do you think its best that she/he gets the protection of the court as regards anonymity, if she/he chooses to exercise that, or is it open season on her/him across the swathe of shitty journalism and social media that we have here. I know which I prefer.

Edited by JimmyCant
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8 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

They werent introduced as Woman A and Woman B etc in the court. They gave evidence under their real names face to face with the accused and a jury. Everyone in the court knows who they are/were. It was covered by a reporting restriction in such cases and so it should be. For the trauma of sexual offences I think its right that women can give evidence against accused persons and not be subject to the glare of the media and thereby the judgement of the arseholes that inhabit our country, with an opinion on everything and knowledge of nothing.

 

If on the other hand a Woman has been proven to have lied and made up a rape charge or a sex offence charge and put a man, whoever he is and whatever kind of erse he is himself, through 18 months of daily wondering whether he is going to jail or not, should have that anonymity removed from them, as has happened many times already.

 

I dont know obviously what your marital or parental status is, or your sexual preferences, but put yourself in this position. If someone close to you is raped or molested or alleges that they have been, do you think its best that she/he gets the protection of the court as regards anonymity, if she/he chooses to exercise that, or is it open season on her/him across the swathe of shitty journalism and social media that we have here. I know which I prefer.

 

 

I would agree with this (hard not to) and would happy to go along with it as long as we then bring out serious punishment measures for false accusations.  For instance the same jail time for a false accusation as the accused would get for a proven one.

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3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I would agree with this (hard not to) and would happy to go along with it as long as we then bring out serious punishment measures for false accusations.  For instance the same jail time for a false accusation as the accused would get for a proven one.

I'd imagine the majority of women who make up these allegations have some kind of mental health issue ranging from raging sociopathic jealousy, through clinical depression and the other most serious mental disorders.There are a percentage who make up rape claims to cover being caught in an illicit romp they shouldnt have been having. There's all sorts of reasons they do it.Its the easiest thing in the world to credibly make up and have prosecuted to some extent.One of the reasons its so easy is that its a political no no to not prosecute a rape case where there is some credible evidence, even if deep down the prosecutors know there is little chance of a successful conviction. I dont see that changing any time soon and theres a fine balance between giving men carte blanche to rape and giving women carte blanche to falsely accuse men of rape.

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What doesn't help is we are seeing generations of people now growing up not being able to differentiate between 'accused' and 'convicted'.

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manaliveits105

Hopefully Salmond will now pursue with vigour all those in the party who stitched him up - this will run and run 

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davemclaren
22 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I would agree with this (hard not to) and would happy to go along with it as long as we then bring out serious punishment measures for false accusations.  For instance the same jail time for a false accusation as the accused would get for a proven one.

So anyone that complains to the police and has their case taken to court ( because the prosecuting authority thinks there is a legal case to be answered ) should be punished if there is not a successful prosecution? There's already laws covering malicious accusations and perjury. 

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Just now, davemclaren said:

So anyone that complains to the police and has their case taken to court ( because the prosecuting authority thinks there is a legal case to be answered ) should be punished if there is not a successful prosecution? There's already laws covering malicious accusations and perjury. 

 

 

I know of no false accusation case where there has been anything more than a slap on the wrist.  Not saying it has never happened I jst don't know of it.  It is getting bad Dave, an accepted part of our society.  False accusations and defemation.  It is simply unnacceptable behaviour.  Even that gay mixed race actor a few years ago who said he was jumped and beat up by 'Trump supporters' for being gay.  It was proved to be completely false.  It is making a mockery of our justice system, wastes public funds and destroys careers, marraiges, friendships, reputations and lives.

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davemclaren
2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I know of no false accusation case where there has been anything more than a slap on the wrist.  Not saying it has never happened I jst don't know of it.  It is getting bad Dave, an accepted part of our society.  False accusations and defemation.  It is simply unnacceptable behaviour.  Even that gay mixed race actor a few years ago who said he was jumped and beat up by 'Trump supporters' for being gay.  It was proved to be completely false.  It is making a mockery of our justice system, wastes public funds and destroys careers, marraiges, friendships, reputations and lives.

It can be an issue justice isn’t always a black and white thing and your proposal for quid pro quo punishments isn’t in the best interests of justice imo. 

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4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It can be an issue justice isn’t always a black and white thing and your proposal for quid pro quo punishments isn’t in the best interests of justice imo. 

 

 

Justice is screwed anyway as men are more harshly punished in a court of law than women.  And that stinks.  I am sure we all except men comit more crime and more dangerous than women but if a female and male commit the exact same crime (spouse murder, rape, assault etc) one is treated differently to the other.  I better watch or people will accuse me of supporting murdering your wife etc.

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davemclaren
Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Justice is screwed anyway as men are more harshly punished in a court of law than women.  And that stinks.  I am sure we all except men comit more crime and more dangerous than women but if a female and male commit the exact same crime (spouse murder, rape, assault etc) one is treated differently to the other.  I better watch or people will accuse me of supporting murdering your wife etc.


You’ve met my wife then? 😎

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Space Mackerel
Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Justice is screwed anyway as men are more harshly punished in a court of law than women.  And that stinks.  I am sure we all except men comit more crime and more dangerous than women but if a female and male commit the exact same crime (spouse murder, rape, assault etc) one is treated differently to the other.  I better watch or people will accuse me of supporting murdering your wife etc.

 

What do you make of woman H who accused AS of attempted rape? She claimed there was 4 of them at dinner one night. including a business woman.

AS said "H" wasn't there on that night, business woman corroborated his statement saying she couldn't remember her being there too.

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7 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

AS said "H" wasn't there on that night, business woman corroborated his statement saying she couldn't remember her being there too.

 

 

Never knew he was a Steps fan to be honest.

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47 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It can be an issue justice isn’t always a black and white thing and your proposal for quid pro quo punishments isn’t in the best interests of justice imo. 

 

That's because you're not a brainless reactionary . . . checks out.

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43 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I know of no false accusation case where there has been anything more than a slap on the wrist.  

Well right off the top of my head theres the bloke who accused all the celebs and politicians of historical child abuse just recently. Pretty sure he got a hefty sentence

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14 hours ago, leginten said:

Pretty distasteful thread, all in all. From the outset. Petty and premature glee at the hoped-for downfall of a politician, with scant regard to the issues involved.

 

It’s the legal equivalent of the Hibs’ fans relegation party at Tynecastle a few years back. Gleeful distribution of party hats during the corteo from Roseburn followed by toys out the pram, tears and snotters, tantrums and recriminations in the aftermath.

Fair comparison.

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3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Well right off the top of my head theres the bloke who accused all the celebs and politicians of historical child abuse just recently. Pretty sure he got a hefty sentence

 

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jambos are go!
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s just another in a long long line of utter riddys for old our old 2 new 8‘s tripper and manalive :lol: 

Their desperation and trolling has given them a right old backhander to the mush....again :rofl: 

Lets not forget Jambos are go either. Where was his Hollywood witness? “You won’t believe who is willing to testify” I’m sure was his earth shattering claim.

 

 

F0FB08C5-0D36-4613-94A6-ADD4FCA0CECB.jpeg

My post was based on whispers  within political circles that someone closely associated with a senior S NP figure was willing to give evidence. Given that we don't know if they were actually called or remained annonymous  we will never know. I could suggest that your allegation against me is not proven and therefore a finding of innocence!!!

 

I said someone was willing to give evidence. You said I suggested a Holyrood witness . How did you make that leap. Did you hear some  whispers?

 

 

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1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Justice is screwed anyway as men are more harshly punished in a court of law than women.  And that stinks.  I am sure we all except men comit more crime and more dangerous than women but if a female and male commit the exact same crime (spouse murder, rape, assault etc) one is treated differently to the other.  I better watch or people will accuse me of supporting murdering your wife etc.

 

Care to support your theory with examples?

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jack D and coke
27 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

My post was based on whispers  within political circles that someone closely associated with a senior S NP figure was willing to give evidence. Given that we don't know if they were actually called or remained annonymous  we will never know. I could suggest that your allegation against me is not proven and therefore a finding of innocence!!!

 

I said someone was willing to give evidence. You said I suggested a Holyrood witness . How did you make that leap. Did you hear some  whispers?

 

 

I’m not going to go back through all your messages to find it. 
Wait till you hear who’s willing to testify were your words or words to that effect. You were among the small few on here who were salivating over this trial. Quite hideous behaviour. 
At least you’ve showed face though unlike another poster. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Care to support your theory with examples?

I was a witness to a guy being seriously assaulted by two women for sticking up for his girlfriend. He didn't lift a hand to any of them. Next thing I know he was up on assault charges and the WPC who took my statement didn't write down what I said(yes I should have read it, but hey, trust). You'd think I was on trial.

A total fecking stitch up for the lad. The Police officer, well she was just the Par for the course, with that lot.

Never trust a copper is my(probably not the only one) mantra.

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17 minutes ago, Cade said:

i8

 

Social Justice Warrior


Getting tired of his virtue signalling. :( 

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17 minutes ago, weehammy said:

First Cherry and MacAskill, now Alex Neil joins the Fat Alex superfans demanding a purge.


Think some people might need a Therapist once the dust settles on this one.

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Space Mackerel
3 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Think some people might need a Therapist once the dust settles on this one.


:rofl:

 

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The Real Maroonblood
7 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Think some people might need a Therapist once the dust settles on this one.

He’s still hurting.

Good.

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6 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

He’s still hurting.

Good.


The Aberdeen stadium debacle should cheer him up a little though.

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:


The Aberdeen stadium debacle should cheer him up a little though.

:laugh:

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17 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Think some people might need a Therapist once the dust settles on this one.

Don't be too hard on him. Fat Alex must just his way of expressing himself. Wee hammy is also a way of expression when talk about a little .... Or their name is Hamilton 

Edited by ri Alban
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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
23 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Think some people might need a Therapist once the dust settles on this one.

You missed a space in his name.

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jambos are go!
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m not going to go back through all your messages to find it. 
Wait till you hear who’s willing to testify were your words or words to that effect. You were among the small few on here who were salivating over this trial. Quite hideous behaviour. 
At least you’ve showed face though unlike another poster. 

You will find I have made relatively few posts on this thread. Clarifying facts and hardly salivating. Gloating ain't pretty is good advice.

 

 Wait till you hear who is willing to testify  is a long way from saying I know of a Holyrood witness. I don't where you dug that up from and would like to know more from you?

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jack D and coke
15 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

You will find I have made relatively few posts on this thread. Clarifying facts and hardly salivating. Gloating ain't pretty is good advice.

 

 Wait till you hear who is willing to testify  is a long way from saying I know of a Holyrood witness. I don't where you dug that up from and would like to know more from you?

I didn’t mean the person was actually a Hollywood actor ffs :lol: 

I meant you grandstanded it like it was a game changer, an earth shattering witness when it was complete bolloks. Hearsay. 
I’m trying not to gloat but it’s hard not to laugh at the state some of you get yourselves into over the SNP and independence. 
Wanted a man convicted purely because you don’t like his politics, absolutely tragic. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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The Real Maroonblood
3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I didn’t mean the person was actually a Hollywood actor ffs :lol: 

I meant you grandstanded it like it was a game changer, an earth shattering witness when it was complete bolloks. Hearsay. 
I’m trying not to gloat but it’s hard not to laugh at the state some of you get yourselves into over the SNP and independence. 
Wanted a man convicted purely because you don’t like his politics, absolutely tragic. 

Your last sentence sums up these cretins.

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1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I was a witness to a guy being seriously assaulted by two women for sticking up for his girlfriend. He didn't lift a hand to any of them. Next thing I know he was up on assault charges and the WPC who took my statement didn't write down what I said(yes I should have read it, but hey, trust). You'd think I was on trial.

A total fecking stitch up for the lad. The Police officer, well she was just the Par for the course, with that lot.

Never trust a copper is my(probably not the only one) mantra.

Presumably you gave the correct and truthful version when it went to court though ?

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The Mighty Thor

That was a rather entertaining catch up from last night.

 

One member takes an absolute bleaching and the other is yet to resurface, to take an absolute bleaching. 

 

Oh tripper, where art thou?

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10 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Presumably you gave the correct and truthful version when it went to court though ?

I did, the copper didn't. And it was noted.

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Much of this thread is pathetic, to say the least, describing the accused in unworthy terms and/or citing political allegiance as a weapon for determining guilt.

As I said a bit earlier in the thread, he should not be found guilty on the basis of accusation(s) alone as it's simply a "he said/she said" game of verbal tennis with the jury required to make a judgment based on who seems the more credible with the winner often being the one who can express himself/herself better.  There is a need to have reliable 3rd party evidence whether human ot technological to PROVE guilt.

Being not guilty in law of course does not mean he was not guilty in fact and that is unfair but it is equally unfair that  if he was truly innocent he will forever have to face the world with that doubt in people's minds.

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1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I did, the copper didn't. And it was noted.

I always laugh when folk come up with bent copper stories. I’ve known many police officers over the years and have two in our near family. Far from being motivated to be corrupt, after a few years they lose interest in outcomes because they’re basically farting against thunder. All the ones I know couldn’t give a toss about fitting someone up for the hell of it. Too much hassle. Too much to lose and frankly they rarely come across people worth the effort either way. Just ordinary guys doing a job, sometimes very well, sometimes not so well. I’ve never met one I thought was dodgy and would give a wide berth to.  I’m glad they are around for the most part. If some pond life have had a bad experience with them frankly my dear I don’t give a damn

Edited by JimmyCant
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6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I always laugh when folk come up with bent copper stories. I’ve known many police officers over the years and have two in our near family. Far from being motivated to be corrupt, after a few years they lose interest in outcomes because they’re basically farting against thunder. All the ones I know couldn’t give a toss about fitting someone up for the hell of it. Too much hassle. Too much to lose and frankly they rarely come across people worth the effort either way. Just ordinary guys doing a job, sometimes very well, sometimes not so well. I’ve never met one I thought was dodgy and would give a wide berth to.  I’m glad they are around for the most part. If some pond life have had a bad experience with them frankly my dear I don’t give a damn

Not bent, biased. I had no dog in the fight, I told what I saw, she well. Bt hey, police are all saints. Saville and Rotherham will testify to that. 

I'm glad they're here, but they're human. I grew up in a town where the top cop on the beat, didn't arrest boys who played for his fitbaw team. 😃

Edited by ri Alban
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jambos are go!
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I didn’t mean the person was actually a Hollywood actor ffs :lol: 

I meant you grandstanded it like it was a game changer, an earth shattering witness when it was complete bolloks. Hearsay. 
I’m trying not to gloat but it’s hard not to laugh at the state some of you get yourselves into over the SNP and independence. 
Wanted a man convicted purely because you don’t like his politics, absolutely tragic. 

Totally inaccurate interpretation of my posts. I was talking about me not gloating not you. I have never remotely suggested anyone ever should be convicted because of their political views. 

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AlphonseCapone

Can't believe Trapper hasn't reappeared, how utterly pathetic. 

 

JackLadd, Manaliveits105 and Gorgiewave making some right ***** of themselves as well. 

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The Real Maroonblood
48 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Can't believe Trapper hasn't reappeared, how utterly pathetic. 

 

JackLadd, Manaliveits105 and Gorgiewave making some right ***** of themselves as well. 

:spoton:

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manaliveits105
16 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

This is a bit of a toxic thread, isn't it. 

but not as toxic as the swingers national party :cornette_dog:

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