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Could relegation be liberating?


combo74

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1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:


We’ve lost a number of FOH subscribers just due to poor form and anti Levein / Budge sentiment. Relegation combined with the realisation of fan ownership will see a significant drop in subscribers. I believe that 25% + is very realistic.

So the fans who wanted fan ownership will abandon the organisation they now ‘own’.  Aye, that makes sense.  

 

The clue is pretty much in the title, fan ownership. The realisation of fan ownership is the major reason for continuing with pledges. No longer is the money being paid back to anyone, the funds can go straight into the club. 

 

Anyone who cancels a pledge pledge due to poor form, a dislike of an employee, or relegation, just doesn’t get it as far as I’m concerned. 

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Leveins Battalion
1 hour ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

If Budge is allowed to relegate us and still have the gig then they can forget my subscription

Even if we avoid the drop and she stays anywhere near HMFC I will cancelling mine!!

 

Stand apart her tenure has been disastrous....

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13 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 


It would be a massive embarrassment, cause total unrest with the fans and be a financial disaster!

Think that covers it!

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Forever Hearts
12 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Even if we avoid the drop and she stays anywhere near HMFC I will cancelling mine!!

 

Stand apart her tenure has been disastrous....

And even the stand wasn't without its issues. 

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13 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

How can you possibly say up to 50% of FOH direct debits would be cancelled, ludicrous thing to say.

we could be in the bottom tier of Scottish football and I would still keep my pledge running, possibly even increase it.  FOH is a pledge for life commitment not a cancel whenever my team is playing 5h1te.

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August Landmesser
14 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Stendal won't be the manager next season.

Stendel might be though.

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2 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Why would 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancel their direct debit? Why would anyone cancel their DD if we go down? Do they not want the club to come back up? Be as financially stable as possible? 

 

FOH subscribers are the hard core of our support. They are not going to give up in those numbers, absolutely no way.

 

Scaremongering of the highest order. 

If AB is still in charge with the support of FOH  I'd certainly be considering their competence

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loveofthegame
14 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

 

We only ****ing rebooted 5 years ago FFS.

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No, we should be fighting tooth and nail to stay up.  
 

As other times in our history have shown, a pre season of change can reverse fortunes very quickly. 
 

We shouldn’t give in , shrug the shoulders and think going down is water off a duck’s back. We could end up with a mediocre period in our history that could easily stretch to a decade if we don’t sort ourselves out. 
 

The seasons of regular top 3 finishes, Europe, enjoying watching decent sides, dominating the derby are disappearing more into the distance with every passing season and becoming a fond memory. 

It’s shocking. 

 

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Leveins Battalion

The chance for liberation was getting rid of Levein and MacPhee and the recruitment team and bringing a young motivated manager who knows the league like Gary Holt,Robinson or dare I say it Jack Ross.

 

Instead they are still all on the payroll and the toxic element at the club persists.

 

Stendel is a good scapegoat for Budge and Levein though,I can already see the end of season review.....

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loveofthegame
2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:


We’ve lost a number of FOH subscribers just due to poor form and anti Levein / Budge sentiment. Relegation combined with the realisation of fan ownership will see a significant drop in subscribers. I believe that 25% + is very realistic.

 

IF we are relegated and there are no changes at the top, I will remove my "lifetime" contribution at the point that we take on ownership of the club until such time that there are changes at the top.

 

Sick of backing this incompetent regime.

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1 hour ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

If Budge is allowed to relegate us and still have the gig then they can forget my subscription

 

 

I was on her train for the first 2 years.  Worshipped the ground she walked on.  Met her in Estonia at the Hearts game and at an airport months before.  Then gradually I started to see things I felt were out of place.  I saw us spening more and more on luxuries like a team full of girls and innovation centres for kids and I started to question.  Results went into freefall and all I would see her is smile or cosey up with Hibs.

 

Then of course there was her “Hearts and Hibs compete in Europe” and “genuine fans” slap in the teeth statements.  When she is not doing missionary work in the name of herself and the club she is trying to socially cleanse our fanbase and dot fluffy cushions and pot pouri around the stadium it became apparent that she simply does not give the slightest **** about being a winning football team.

 

The ridiculous sponsorship deal with ‘Save the Children’ her gross negligence over team failures, her abysmal project management with the stand and her opening the doors, hanging our dirty laundry our for all to see so she will come out looking laundered makes me sick.

 

My name is on the foundation t-shirt and I subscribed for about 3 ½ years.  I’d now sooner give away my hard earned money to an obvious beggar on the street than let her loose with 1p of my hard earned fruit.

 

The second she leaves and takes the 2 bad smells with her is when I can start to help fund the club again.

Edited by i8hibsh
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46 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

So the fans who wanted fan ownership will abandon the organisation they now ‘own’.  Aye, that makes sense.  

 

The clue is pretty much in the title, fan ownership. The realisation of fan ownership is the major reason for continuing with pledges. No longer is the money being paid back to anyone, the funds can go straight into the club. 

 

Anyone who cancels a pledge pledge due to poor form, a dislike of an employee, or relegation, just doesn’t get it as far as I’m concerned. 


I think you confuse fan owned with fan run. As other posters are suggesting, if we are relegated, fans will naturally consider whether or not their money is being spent correctly.

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24 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

 

We only ****ing rebooted 5 years ago FFS.

We did...and from a footballing perspective we seem to be in a much poorer shape now and have been in what feels like a terminal decline for 3 years.

 

Obviously I don’t want relegation, but just trying to gauge whether there could be some sort of positive outcome if the worst was to happen.

 

Its all very well people saying a club of our stature shouldn’t go down, however that doesn’t get away from the fact that it’s close to happening, without a huge turnaround in our fortunes. If we do go down it won’t be bad luck, it will be absolutely deserved. 

 

 

Edited by combo74
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Just now, Mr Elwood P said:


I think you confuse fan owned with fan run. As other posters are suggesting, if we are relegated, fans will naturally consider whether or not their money is being spent correctly.

I don’t think he is confusing anything.
It was never going to be fan run. Never.

The FOH laid out, plainly, what was going to happen.

People are entitled to continue or cancel as they see fit but, as we all know, we were/are not going to run anything.

That is always going to be the board, which will be represented by FOH.

This is not news of course. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


I think you confuse fan owned with fan run. As other posters are suggesting, if we are relegated, fans will naturally consider whether or not their money is being spent correctly.

I am not confusing anything. FOH contributors will have every right to consider whether there money is being spent correctly. Common sense dictates that that consideration should also be given after the fan ownership has taken place and FOH have far greater accountability in the whole decision making process of who is employed to run the club, and what money is spent on.

 

You’re picking figures out of thin air with no basis other than guesswork or a personal agenda for the figures you suggest.

 

Scaremongering and spreading negativity seems to be your only contribution to JKB.

 

Some people support Hearts (not necessarily every aspect) whilst others detract and criticise at every turn. Between slagging off Stendel, Budge, pulling negative figures out the air and pissing on people’s strawberries at the merest hint of positivity, you are the biggest Hearts detractor I have every come across.

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9 minutes ago, Boab said:

I don’t think he is confusing anything.
It was never going to be fan run. Never.

The FOH laid out, plainly, what was going to happen.

People are entitled to continue or cancel as they see fit but, as we all know, we were/are not going to run anything.

That is always going to be the board, which will be represented by FOH.

This is not news of course. 


Plenty folk confuse the two.

 

5 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I am not confusing anything. FOH contributors will have every right to consider whether there money is being spent correctly. Common sense dictates that that consideration should also be given after the fan ownership has taken place and FOH have far greater accountability in the whole decision making process of who is employed to run the club, and what money is spent on.

 

You’re picking figures out of thin air with no basis other than guesswork or a personal agenda for the figures you suggest.

 

Scaremongering and spreading negativity seems to be your only contribution to JKB.

 

Some people support Hearts (not necessarily every aspect) whilst others detract and criticise at every turn. Between slagging off Stendel, Budge, pulling negative figures out the air and pissing on people’s strawberries at the merest hint of positivity, you are the biggest Hearts detractor I have every come across.


You fail to distinguish Hearts from Daniel Stendel. I have never been overly negative about Hearts. I suggested in December that Stendel’s appointment wasn’t working. Thus far no evidence contradicts this assertion. Being wildly optimistic about season ticket sales and FOH subs, post potential relegation, doesn’t make you more of a PHM, it simply makes you less of a realist. To consider me ‘the biggest Hearts defector,’ shows that you’re clearly not paying enough attention!

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Just now, Mr Elwood P said:


Plenty folk confuse the two.

 


You fail to distinguish Hearts from Daniel Stendel. I have never been overly negative about Hearts. I suggested in December that Stendel’s appointment wasn’t working. Thus far no evidence contradicts this assertion. Being wildly optimistic about season ticket sales and FOH subs, post potential relegation, doesn’t make you more of a PHM, it simply makes you less of a realist. To consider me ‘the biggest Hearts defector,’ shows that you’re clearly not paying enough attention!


I agree that there is still a confusion regarding our ownership in the future.

I won’t tell people how to spend their hard earned but removing it because of a shit season is not for me.

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22 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Plenty folk confuse the two.

 


You fail to distinguish Hearts from Daniel Stendel. I have never been overly negative about Hearts. I suggested in December that Stendel’s appointment wasn’t working. Thus far no evidence contradicts this assertion. Being wildly optimistic about season ticket sales and FOH subs, post potential relegation, doesn’t make you more of a PHM, it simply makes you less of a realist. To consider me ‘the biggest Hearts defector,’ shows that you’re clearly not paying enough attention!

Nice try in trying to turn it around!!

 

I’m not being widely optimistic, in fact I haven’t even quoted a figure, it’s pointless because it would simply be guesswork.  You on the other hand are being wildly pessimistic about season ticket sales, FOH contributions, etc, based on absolutely zero. Quoting figures of 25-50% reduction in FOH contributions, based on what? No facts, just your pessimistic view. What exactly makes your depressive view of things should we be relegated the more realistic? 

 

Oh, and I have been paying attention. You are the biggest Hearts detractor. I base that on the premise that I’m prepared to believe that you are actually a Hearts fan (someone once saw you at Tynecastle after all). The other detractors are hibbys, trolls, or simply half wits who support other teams and have too much time on their hands.

 

Given you’ve taken user name from a film character who gets drunk and talks to a 6ft invisible rabbit It may suggest where your thought process comes from.

 

 

Edited by Ethan Hunt
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12 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

 

Nice try in trying to turn it around!!

 

I’m not being widely optimistic, in fact I haven’t even quoted a figure, it’s pointless because it would simply be guesswork.  You on the other hand are being wildly pessimistic about season ticket sales, FOH contributions, etc, based on absolutely zero. Quoting figures of 25-50% reduction in FOH contributions, based on what? No facts, just your pessimistic view. What exactly makes your depressive view of things should we be relegated the more realistic? 

 

Oh, and I have been paying attention. You are the biggest Hearts detractor. I base that on the premise that I’m prepared to believe that you are actually a Hearts fan (someone once saw you at Tynecastle after all). The other detractors are hibbys, trolls, or simply half wits who support other teams and have too much time on their hands.

 

Given you’ve taken user name from a film character who gets drunk and talks to a 6ft invisible rabbit It may suggest where your thought process comes from.

 

 


How would you provide facts, to support an argument, for an event that hasn’t taken place?
 

You are being optimistic, simply by arguing that we won’t have less than 10k season ticket sales, you are arguing that we will have more. Look at ticket sales for Saturday, the fans have had enough.

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2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I would keep mine but I'd try and get enough people together to call an EGM and force out the FoH leadership if they didn't remove Budge in these circumstances.

 

The thing to remember when doing things such as this is to have alternative suitable Candidates lined up and ready to be elected.

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2 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Levein appointing cathro set us back years, levein appointing himself set us back, levein staying after the Livingston debacle set us back, levein staying after the cup final set us back.

 

Getting rid of him will be the biggest step forward in 5 years, no matter the league we find ourselves in.

 

Yes and some poor sod still has to try and get rid of his crap signings on long term deals such as Damour.

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1 hour ago, Ethan Hunt said:

So the fans who wanted fan ownership will abandon the organisation they now ‘own’.  Aye, that makes sense.  

 

The clue is pretty much in the title, fan ownership. The realisation of fan ownership is the major reason for continuing with pledges. No longer is the money being paid back to anyone, the funds can go straight into the club. 

 

Anyone who cancels a pledge pledge due to poor form, a dislike of an employee, or relegation, just doesn’t get it as far as I’m concerned. 

 

I agree with a lot of your argument however the one thing that AB does not get is discontent among the fans she only pays heed when the money stops coming in.

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55 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I agree with a lot of your argument however the one thing that AB does not get is discontent among the fans she only pays heed when the money stops coming in.

When fan ownership is complete if - and that is a big if - AB is still in post she will be an employee of the club. Like every employee she can be relieved of her duties if she doesn’t perform.

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1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:


How would you provide facts, to support an argument, for an event that hasn’t taken place?
 

You are being optimistic, simply by arguing that we won’t have less than 10k season ticket sales, you are arguing that we will have more. Look at ticket sales for Saturday, the fans have had enough.

You wouldn’t have facts!!! hence your whole argument is based purely on your personal opinion, an opinion which, as we’ve seen from your posts, is an entirely pessimistic one. Someone challenging your overly pessimistic view doesn’t necessarily make that person optimistic. If fact you could argue they are pessimistic, just less pessimistic than you.

 

Let’s see what happens before spreading depressive nonsense. It’s doom and gloom merchants like you the already have us relegated. Exactly the type of attitude that will have us relegated.

 

I’ll continue to support Heart of Midlothian whether that be in the Premier League or the Championship. If some only want to support the Premier League Heart of Midlothian I’ll leave that to them (and given your views I’d expect you to be one of them). I support Hearts wherever they are.

 

Now away and stick a Smiths album on and cheer yourself up a bit. Go on, knock yourself out.

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27 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

When fan ownership is complete if - and that is a big if - AB is still in post she will be an employee of the club. Like every employee she can be relieved of her duties if she doesn’t perform.

 

As I unerstand it she will still have a seat on the board as will all the others who currently sit there.

 

FOH will only have two representatives on the Board not enough to remove her without the others backing them which is unlikely.

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28 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

You wouldn’t have facts!!! hence your whole argument is based purely on your personal opinion, an opinion which, as we’ve seen from your posts, is an entirely pessimistic one. Someone challenging your overly pessimistic view doesn’t necessarily make that person optimistic. If fact you could argue they are pessimistic, just less pessimistic than you.

 

Let’s see what happens before spreading depressive nonsense. It’s doom and gloom merchants like you the already have us relegated. Exactly the type of attitude that will have us relegated.

 

I’ll continue to support Heart of Midlothian whether that be in the Premier League or the Championship. If some only want to support the Premier League Heart of Midlothian I’ll leave that to them (and given your views I’d expect you to be one of them). I support Hearts wherever they are.

 

Now away and stick a Smiths album on and cheer yourself up a bit. Go on, knock yourself out.


You undermine any validity, your argument may have held, with that childish nonsense at the end. Quite happy to continue this conversation, it the worst occurs. 

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Just now, Mr Elwood P said:


You undermine any validity, your argument may have held, with that childish nonsense at the end. Quite happy to continue this conversation, it the worst occurs. 


Well, it will re-surface when next season’s ST threads kick off.

Let’s see how it pans out then.....!

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I don't want to be relegated, but If we are relegated I will renew my season ticket. I will continue to contribute to FOH and I'll go to all the home games I can. It won't be liberating but I'd be absolutely staggered if Levein, MacPhee or anyone responsible other than Stendel were to still be employed by the club. We'll likely lose the players who got us relegated. **** em all. Mrs Budge will step down regardless so there will be wholesale change.

I hope this happens when we're in the Premier League but if we go down so be it. We re-organise and we come back. It's in the club song.

 

I'm part of the problem though.

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Jambof3tornado
1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

Yes and some poor sod still has to try and get rid of his crap signings on long term deals such as Damour.

And add up the money wasted on vaneceks, wightons etc etc.

 

Its no wonder we are where we are.

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4 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

And add up the money wasted on vaneceks, wightons etc etc.

 

Its no wonder we are where we are.

 

I know it is so sad to see all because of blind faith by AB.

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7 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:


We’ve lost a number of FOH subscribers just due to poor form and anti Levein / Budge sentiment. Relegation combined with the realisation of fan ownership will see a significant drop in subscribers. I believe that 25% + is very realistic.

I don't think 25%+  is remotely realistic. . 

Levein will have left and it is possible Ann may have stepped down as well. 

Can't see people cancelling their subs because we have been relegated and while fan ownership might be a factor I just don't see large numbers cancelling because of this tbh . 

25%+ seems fanciful in all honesty 

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19 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Stendal won't be the manager next season.

If we go down I would get Gary Holt in straight away. 

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No

 

When things get bad you get all sorts of nonsense spoken about how it could be good for you when clearly it is not

 

There is no good side to relegation and if you think so think again

 

Threads like this and people who support the premise are just full of people who have given up or who carry silly grudges on other topics

Edited by CJGJ
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2 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Decent shout that 

Think he would do a good job. He can certainly get the best out of his squad and I think that would give us the best chance to come back up. I don’t think we should continue with Stendel if we go down. 

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alwaysthereinspirit
16 minutes ago, rick witter said:

If we go down I would get Gary Holt in straight away. 

Robbie. He appears to have a knack down there.

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13 minutes ago, rick witter said:

Think he would do a good job. He can certainly get the best out of his squad and I think that would give us the best chance to come back up. I don’t think we should continue with Stendel if we go down. 

Definitely. Seems to get the best out of players and seems to be a decent guy . 

Think he would be a good fit for us whether we go down or stay up tbh 

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17 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Robbie. He appears to have a knack down there.

No chance I would ever take Robbie back. We were going down the Levein route with him. Was becoming more like Levein with every game towards the end of his time at Hearts. 

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27 minutes ago, rick witter said:

No chance I would ever take Robbie back. We were going down the Levein route with him. Was becoming more like Levein with every game towards the end of his time at Hearts. 

 

Shit, was he actually being serious? 

I wouldn't want Robbie back, he's not good enough and the fact that people want him back only shows how much of a failure levein has been.

Robbie will be in the premiership next year due to having more money than everyone else down there. Fair play to him, he signed a goal scorer in shankland, 

Anyone that thinks Robbie would leave Utd to come back to us in the championship is off their nut. 

 

 

Edited by Space Pirate
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SomethingAboutObua

No, nothing is the same as the last relegation. Literally nothing besides 3 of our stands, and the fanbase. 

Relegation this time would be a total embarrassment. 


Last time: New owner, new plan, new board, new budget, new signings to go with our youngsters who had had a year in the top flight, signings that saw we were on the up in every sense, new youth academy, an entire overhaul of everything.
This time: Same owner, same board, same budget, another season of new signings who "need time", Andy Irving would be our only experienced  youngster (Hickey would go if we were relegated, 100%), a jettisoning of senior players and not many would be scrambling to replace them with our now emotionally devastated fanbase.

No, relegation would be no benefit aside from letting some rubbish players go, many of whom are already free agents this summer. Basically our one benefit would be we'd lose Loic Damour early.

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I was going to give a blunt "no" response to this and say - I'd much rather we scrape safety and then be liberated...

 

BUT, relegation would invoke numerous relegation clauses in our squad which truly "could" be liberating and free up cash.

 

Let's be honest, we need to empty almost the entire squad and who in their right mind is going to take half these losers? So maybe it would be liberating...

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