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Could relegation be liberating?


combo74

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Forever Hearts
1 minute ago, Ari Gold said:

 

You're right, there will be no players wanting to sign for Hearts. We will never sign another player until we get promoted.

Come on mate. 

There were plenty of players wanting to sign for us last time we went down and there will this time. 

Oh there will be players wanting to sign alright. Whether they are good or not is another matter. 

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The liberating reset already happened. It happened with admin and relegation. We shed our debt and our expensive players and had a fresh start and romped the league and came back up at the first time of asking. The fans were engaged and there was a real sense of momentum and financial support from us.

 

Since then the club have pissed it all up the wall.

 

It won't be like that this time. And even if it was, what suggests the club won't just squander the opportunity again

 

What we need change, not relegation.

Edited by Taffin
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Maybe it’s just me but I am surprised this topic has stimulated a response.Liberated from what? Freedom from watching your team at all or a release from having to compete against teams in the top tier including St Johnston, St Mirren, Hamilton and Ross County. A stupid question which suggests someone is at it.

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4 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

Maybe it’s just me but I am surprised this topic has stimulated a response.Liberated from what? Freedom from watching your team at all or a release from having to compete against teams in the top tier including St Johnston, St Mirren, Hamilton and Ross County. A stupid question which suggests someone is at it.

It's ridiculous defeatism akin to effectively giving Stendel a free pass for the complete shambles he has overseen since arriving in December.

 

We were bad under Levein… he has somehow managed to make us worse!!!

Edited by David McCaig
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56 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

That's where the short-termism of a Managerial change can pay dividends.

 

In a perfect world, I want Stendel's magical 'gegenpress' to click into gear, just as I wanted Cathro to be the game changer who broke the status quo... But actually much as I hate myself for saying it, maybe an old school 442 "get intake them" Manager is exactly what we need between now and the end of the season.

I’m scunnered by all that’s happened in the last couple of years 

I wanted Cathro to work I believed.

Im now starting to lose faith in Stendel, if he continues to stick with this style of football we are going down, absolutely no doubt

Next time when it comes to picking a manager, we need safe steady hands, someone who knows the Scottish game, no more gambles projects or experiments 

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but a Stuart McCall would have been a better appointment at this time 

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2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

It's ridiculous defeatism akin to effectively given Stendel a free pass for the complete shambles he has overseen since arriving in December.

 

We were bad under Levein… he has somehow managed to make us worse!!!

 

I have tried to keep an open mind on him . Baffled by some of his team selections . The bottom line is with the resources at his disposal he should at least avoid a play off.Cant say I am confident he will succeed 

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8 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:


That wasn’t where the feel good factor came from. We had sold thousands of season tickets and sold out the home strip before a ball was even kicked. 


And if the worst came to the worst and we did go down, we’d do so again. I’m pretty sure of that.

Debates about possible downturns in ST sales have been going on for years on here. The support always scupper the more ridiculous predictions. I’m not saying yours is fanciful but, conceding that it would be a bad thing business wise for the club, the support have shown over many years that they will back the team, no matter where we’re playing.

I’m not blind to the fact that circumstances have changed since the last time but with sensible pricing, we will still be in the top three or four in crowd numbers next season. You can take that to the bank !

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Nelly Terraces
9 hours ago, jbee647 said:

There is absolutely no certainty we would come back up 

we are likely to lose any decent players we have, I’ll wager Boyce & Naismith have relegation clauses.

This will be nothing like 2014/15, there will be no Hibs and Rangers, this will be Arbroath and Morton.

i saw this in the late 70s early 80s, this feels so much worse, because we never ever should have found ourselves in this mess, back then we had bad players and absolutely no money, in 2020 we are supposedly a well run self sustainable football club

This is gross negligence on a grand scale by Anne Budge and Craig Levein, they should hang there heads in shame.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Says it all. The financial hit will also be massive. There will be absolutely zero feelgood feeling & no big games whatsoever.

 

Agree totally it feels worse than the old days when I was watching us struggle in Div1.

 

Relegation will also be a massive embarrassment for us. Budge & Levein have to go at the earliest opportunity. 

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Jambof3tornado
1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Whether we come straight back up or not is moot. This would be our version of the vermin getting relegated along with us. We'd be a fecking laughing stock and deservedly so.

We are already a laughing stock!!

 

Our stats are terrible.

 

I hope we stay up somehow, anyhow!! However if we go down we go down, its part and parcel of football. We should have gone from strength to strength post admin and we did not, because Craig Levein became bigger than our great club, and thats down to Ann Budge. 

 

Whatever will be will be but Levein wont be near us after the summer.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

No, not liberating. It would liberate us of three goons in Budge, Levein and McPhee and some of the wage thieves in our squad but in terms of football and everything else it will be grim.

 

 

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Forever Hearts
2 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

We are already a laughing stock!!

 

Our stats are terrible.

 

I hope we stay up somehow, anyhow!! However if we go down we go down, its part and parcel of football. We should have gone from strength to strength post admin and we did not, because Craig Levein became bigger than our great club, and thats down to Ann Budge. 

 

Whatever will be will be but Levein wont be near us after the summer.

Hearts going down is not part and parcel of football. Not for the size of the club and our budget. 

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10 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

We won't come straight back up with the mob we have at the moment, but Budge can boast the best hospitality in the universe...!!

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19 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

I’m scunnered by all that’s happened in the last couple of years 

I wanted Cathro to work I believed.

Im now starting to lose faith in Stendel, if he continues to stick with this style of football we are going down, absolutely no doubt

Next time when it comes to picking a manager, we need safe steady hands, someone who knows the Scottish game, no more gambles projects or experiments 

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but a Stuart McCall would have been a better appointment at this time 

We had a "safe pair of hands" for the last 3 years. 

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The only thing we'll be liberated from, is top level football.

 

But hopefully the fools that took us down will pay the price. I include Budge, Levein, Stendel and every single loser who had the cheek to pull on a maroon jersey this season. I hope I never see a single one of them near our stadium or team ever again. Not one.

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We had a reboot 5 years ago and had a 5 year plan. Look where we are now. It will be the biggest embarrassment in the history of the club to be relegated this season. 

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10 hours ago, combo74 said:

Good in depth responses 😆😆

 

I just want a break from all the negativity that surrounds the club and get back to winning games and scoring goals...ideally that’s in the premier league.

About the depth that the post deserves. 

One thing Championship football isn't is liberating, and once you are down there it ain't easy to get out of the mud.

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Tokyo Drifter
10 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

 

The last Championship season was great indeed. My main worry is  that we'd lose the good players and keep the mediocre ones. However if Stendel stayed I think his style would suit us in the Championship and make for an exciting season and possibly allow us to re-group etc. But ultimately relegation is a bit like Brexit - we can make the best of it but there's no state of affairs which is better or more profitable than the one we currently have.

 

Ouch, he mentioned politics!

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57 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

Maybe it’s just me but I am surprised this topic has stimulated a response.Liberated from what? Freedom from watching your team at all or a release from having to compete against teams in the top tier including St Johnston, St Mirren, Hamilton and Ross County. A stupid question which suggests someone is at it.


Not at it at all...Just thought I’d pose the question, as its a genuine thought I’ve been having in relation to our current predicament. 3 pages of good debate, suggests others saw it as a valid question.

 

It clearly stimulated a response from you 😏

 

For info, I’ll be there watching us whatever league we are in; I certainly won’t see relegation as a reason to stop attending games, stop buying a season ticket or stop FOH contributions.

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Weakened Offender

It might well be. We have been on a downward spiral for the past three years. Relegation would (hopefully) mean a massive clearance of the mugs, losers and chancers who fail to win football matches every week and then spout the same tired lines in the press. 

 

A good clear out of the academy would be nice too, as well as Stendel and his mob. 

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6 minutes ago, combo74 said:


Not at it at all...Just thought I’d pose the question, as its a genuine thought I’ve been having in relation to our current predicament. 3 pages of good debate, suggests others saw it as a valid question.

 

It clearly stimulated a response from you 😏

 

For info, I’ll be there watching us whatever league we are in; I certainly won’t see relegation as a reason to stop attending games, stop buying a season ticket or stop FOH contributions.

 

Merely to highlight the stupidity of the question.

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Jambof3tornado
39 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Hearts going down is not part and parcel of football. Not for the size of the club and our budget. 

Thats the old too big to be relegated attitude that many of our players are sharing and look where thats got us.

 

A unique set of circumstances this season see us where we are. An owner who put too much faith in a 5 year plan that failed when Cathro was put into place, and out too much faith in the man who made the plan. A horrendous error of judgement that Ann is living to regret.

 

The delay in bringing in a new guy created an even more toxic dressing room and we are still seeing key players underperform for the new guy. I like Stendel but fear he may be forced out the door if we go down. I'd like him to stay no matter our league and give him a full year to show us he's no mug.

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Jambof3tornado
6 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

It might well be. We have been on a downward spiral for the past three years. Relegation would (hopefully) mean a massive clearance of the mugs, losers and chancers who fail to win football matches every week and then spout the same tired lines in the press. 

 

A good clear out of the academy would be nice too, as well as Stendel and his mob. 

Hahaha so everybody out you mean??

 

 

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2 hours ago, David McCaig said:

That's where the short-termism of a Managerial change can pay dividends.

 

In a perfect world, I want Stendel's magical 'gegenpress' to click into gear, just as I wanted Cathro to be the game changer who broke the status quo... But actually much as I hate myself for saying it, maybe an old school 442 "get intake them" Manager is exactly what we need between now and the end of the season.

There's an argument for saying that , unless you can buy quality, intelligent players ,that's the only way to go in Scottish football. 

Thats my worry going forward , will Stendel be able to recruit these type of players with our budget and will they ever be able to cope with the up and atem style we've encountered in the previous weeks.

 

Edited by ramrod
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Embarrassing?   Certainly.    Costly?    Certainly.    Likely to be a long stay?    Probably not but nothing guaranteed.

 

We'll just have to get on with it.     Build another squad or hire another manager and start again.

 

And for some... continue to face the wrong way and blame an irrelevant past.

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11 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

 

The down side of this for me  ( no pun intended) is that if we are relegated what does AB do in terms of a Manager?

 

Does she stick by Stendel?  If she does then he is going to want to have a complete clear-out of the crap that CL signed and bring in his own players.

 

If she does this then it is no different to what CL has been doing for the last three seasons. Shipping out one load of players to be replaced by another load of players without knowing if the new lot will be any better.

 

Stendel has shown that either he cannot or will not change his style of play and if he does get to bring in the players he wants then his system might allow us to be promoted but will it keep us in the top division.

 

Lets face it the opposition didn't exactly take long to work out how to score against us and so far Stendel hasn't worked out how to stop this from happening preferring to put the blame on individual errors.

 

He may be correct but how do you stop players from making these errors? I would say that these are happening because the players we have are not convinced about our style of play and feel uncomfortable which in my opinion is why they are making these mistakes.

 

It is about a lack of confidence and a refusal or inability to adjust our style. If we don'r improve and stop leaking the goals then I just can't see anything but relegation.

 

Although I was happy to see the back of CL from the Manager's job and it was refreshing to see someone like Stendel coming in so far it looks as if we are going out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

I think if Stendel persists with his current style and refuses to adjust it then AB has no alternative but to sack Stendel and bring in a proper tried and tested Manager who can chamge tactics to suit so long as she doesn't come out with the line, I have searched high and low and discovered we have the very man working here already!!!!!

 

 

Edited by wavydavy
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We_are_the_Hearts
Just now, wavydavy said:

 

The down side of this for me  ( no pun intended) is that if we are relegated what does AB do in terms of a Manager?

 

Does she stick by Stendel?  If she does then he is going to want to have a complete clear-out of the crap that CL signed and bring in his own players.

 

If she does this then it is no different to what CL has been doing for the last three seasons. Shipping out one load of players to be replaced by another load of players without knowing if the new lot will be any better.

 

Stendel has shown that either he cannot or will not change his style of play and if he does get to bring in the players he wants then his system might allow us to be promoted but will it keep us in the top division.

 

Lets face it the opposition didn't exactly take long to work out how to score against us and so far Stendel hasn't worked out how to stop this from happening preferring to put the blame on individual errors.

 

He may be correct but how do you stop players from making these errors? I would say that these are happening because the players we have are not convinced about our style of play and feel uncomfortable which in my opinion is why they are making these mistakes.

 

It is about a lack of confidence and a refusal or inability to adjust our style. If we don'r improve and stop leaking the goals then I just can't see anything but relegation.

 

Although I was happy to see the back of CL from the Manager's job and it was refreshing to see someone like Stendel coming in so far it looks as if we are going out of the fryinmg pan and into the fire.

 

I think if Stendel persists with his current style and refuses to adjust it then AB has no alternative but to sack Stendel and bring in a proper tried and tested Manager who can chamge tactics to suit so longa s she doesn't come out with the line, I have searched high and low and discovered we have the very man working here already!!!!!

 

 

If we get relegated the first out the door should be AB for overseeing this shambles!!

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Weakened Offender
38 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Hahaha so everybody out you mean??

 

 

 

I'd keep Souttar and sell him to Derby for 5 million pounds once he's fully fit. 

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Ex member of the SaS

If and I hope we don't go down then Levein should refund the club for lost revenue. He's the one who caused it and he should be held responsible for any lost finances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok maybe not but it would go some way to getting the fans off his back.

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Forever Hearts
43 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Thats the old too big to be relegated attitude that many of our players are sharing and look where thats got us.

 

A unique set of circumstances this season see us where we are. An owner who put too much faith in a 5 year plan that failed when Cathro was put into place, and out too much faith in the man who made the plan. A horrendous error of judgement that Ann is living to regret.

 

The delay in bringing in a new guy created an even more toxic dressing room and we are still seeing key players underperform for the new guy. I like Stendel but fear he may be forced out the door if we go down. I'd like him to stay no matter our league and give him a full year to show us he's no mug.

Spin it any way you like, a club like Hearts should not be playing in the Championship. 

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4 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

If we get relegated the first out the door should be AB for overseeing this shambles!!

 

I have a feeling that she may well have something lined up to allow her to leave despite her saying that she will stay on.

 

I think that is partly why FOH are eager to get the voting percentages changed so the change can be implemented.

 

I should hasten to add this is just my opinion I have no facts to back this up, just a gut feeling.

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10 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:


8000 is less than 10000? You’re arguing about nothing. My prediction is that we will see a substantial drop in FOH subs and season ticket sales. I’ve given my estimated drop offs. I’m pretty sure I won’t be far off. You’ve nothing to pick me up for. You’ve just left yourself open to looking like a tit if we do lose 25-50% FOH subs and we have sell less than 10k season tickets. Not sure why you are getting worked up about it. 

There is every chance these things could happen even if we stay up. 

I'm actually more worried about the ST sales as I feel many people 

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8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

The down side of this for me  ( no pun intended) is that if we are relegated what does AB do in terms of a Manager?

 

Does she stick by Stendel?  If she does then he is going to want to have a complete clear-out of the crap that CL signed and bring in his own players.

 

If she does this then it is no different to what CL has been doing for the last three seasons. Shipping out one load of players to be replaced by another load of players without knowing if the new lot will be any better.

 

Stendel has shown that either he cannot or will not change his style of play and if he does get to bring in the players he wants then his system might allow us to be promoted but will it keep us in the top division.

 

Lets face it the opposition didn't exactly take long to work out how to score against us and so far Stendel hasn't worked out how to stop this from happening preferring to put the blame on individual errors.

 

He may be correct but how do you stop players from making these errors? I would say that these are happening because the players we have are not convinced about our style of play and feel uncomfortable which in my opinion is why they are making these mistakes.

 

It is about a lack of confidence and a refusal or inability to adjust our style. If we don'r improve and stop leaking the goals then I just can't see anything but relegation.

 

Although I was happy to see the back of CL from the Manager's job and it was refreshing to see someone like Stendel coming in so far it looks as if we are going out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

I think if Stendel persists with his current style and refuses to adjust it then AB has no alternative but to sack Stendel and bring in a proper tried and tested Manager who can chamge tactics to suit so long as she doesn't come out with the line, I have searched high and low and discovered we have the very man working here already!!!!!

 

 

Levein 3 - The Liberator!!

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We_are_the_Hearts
7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I have a feeling that she may well have something lined up to allow her to leave despite her saying that she will stay on.

 

I think that is partly why FOH are eager to get the voting percentages changed so the change can be implemented.

 

I should hasten to add this is just my opinion I have no facts to back this up, just a gut feeling.

I really hope you are right

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11 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:


I agree, we will be looking at a massive drop in season ticket sales. I also think we might see anything from 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancelling their DD. The Championship is really poor now and having no Edinburgh Derby, no Old Firm and no Aberdeen games would kill us financially.

Why would 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancel their direct debit? Why would anyone cancel their DD if we go down? Do they not want the club to come back up? Be as financially stable as possible? 

 

FOH subscribers are the hard core of our support. They are not going to give up in those numbers, absolutely no way.

 

Scaremongering of the highest order. 

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21 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Why would 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancel their direct debit? Why would anyone cancel their DD if we go down? Do they not want the club to come back up? Be as financially stable as possible? 

 

FOH subscribers are the hard core of our support. They are not going to give up in those numbers, absolutely no way.

 

Scaremongering of the highest order. 


We’ve lost a number of FOH subscribers just due to poor form and anti Levein / Budge sentiment. Relegation combined with the realisation of fan ownership will see a significant drop in subscribers. I believe that 25% + is very realistic.

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29 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Why would 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancel their direct debit? Why would anyone cancel their DD if we go down? Do they not want the club to come back up? Be as financially stable as possible? 

 

FOH subscribers are the hard core of our support. They are not going to give up in those numbers, absolutely no way.

 

Scaremongering of the highest order. 

As someone who subscribed to save the club, and has now retired, the huge letdown of relegation when continuing to pay to increase our ability to challenge would certainly push me to look at priorities for my pension/savings and I feel plenty others would be having the same thoughts. Any guess of the % would be just that.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
6 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

If Budge is allowed to relegate us and still have the gig then they can forget my subscription

I would keep mine but I'd try and get enough people together to call an EGM and force out the FoH leadership if they didn't remove Budge in these circumstances.

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
1 minute ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

If Budge is allowed to relegate us and still have the gig then they can forget my subscription

I think Budge and Levein will walk away at the end of the season.

 

Business world likes predictability and stability, difficult for any football club, strategically not a great idea for her to suggest she will walk, even if it looks most likely outcome.

 

Which division we play in will depend on future investments and incomes, and really why everyone needs to stick together to stave this off. Likely set us back at least 3 years, but possibly 5-10 depending on how long the malaise continues. Or alternatively we stay up and the investors waiting in the wings, build significantly upon the very decent infrastructure.

 

The bewilderment of this season for me, we have never been better placed to challenge, yet we pedal backwards at a furious rate.

 

One redeeming factor of Scottish football, this year you see very little difference between teams in 3rd to 12th, when you do get things right you will shoot up quite quickly, teams on limited budgets can succeed.

 

It won't be terminal, but it will be a bitter pill to swallow for some time to come.

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Jambof3tornado
1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said:

Spin it any way you like, a club like Hearts should not be playing in the Championship. 

No we shouldnt. No spin at all. It will be a disgrace if we go down with the funding and assets at our disposal.

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Jambof3tornado
7 minutes ago, HardcoreJambo said:

No. There are no benefits whatsoever. In fact it set us back years.

Levein appointing cathro set us back years, levein appointing himself set us back, levein staying after the Livingston debacle set us back, levein staying after the cup final set us back.

 

Getting rid of him will be the biggest step forward in 5 years, no matter the league we find ourselves in.

Edited by Jambof3tornado
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1 hour ago, deejtee said:

As someone who subscribed to save the club, and has now retired, the huge letdown of relegation when continuing to pay to increase our ability to challenge would certainly push me to look at priorities for my pension/savings and I feel plenty others would be having the same thoughts. Any guess of the % would be just that.

If your financial position has changed then I fully appreciate that you might have to reconsider your pledge, whether that be be ending it or lowering it.

 

To end a pledge simply because of relegation seems like the wrong reason for me. 

 

If anybody ends their pledge to ‘make a point’, likewise, the wrong reason in my opinion.

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