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Could relegation be liberating?


combo74

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41 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Well said. Hibs had the worst relegation in 1998, they went down, we won the cup. 

 

They had no feelgood factor at all, a shit squad, a bad start to their 1st division season. Then they started winning and romped it in front of big crowds.

 

Exactly the same would happen to us if we do go down.

But only if we can go on an early winning run.  I think season ticket sales will slump for next season no matter how things pan out,  we should all get a letter of apology from the Club with a cheque for this seasons debacle.  Having said that I think FOH debits will not be so badly hit.

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Guest ToqueJambo
15 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

Relegation would be an absolute disaster this time. No big games v rangers and hibs. No feeling of sticking together after coming out of administration. We would lose all our better players. Our turnover was £14m last year - I reckon it could half and would cost us millions. So definitely not liberating!

 

It wouldn't necessarily be a disaster (in terms of threatening our existence or leaving to years in the doldrums). We must all have Hibs mates we can ask. They've been down there 4 times in recent memory after all and only two of those years had us and/or Rangers down there with them.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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28 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It wouldn't necessarily be a disaster (in terms of threatening our existence or leaving to years in the doldrums). We must all have Hibs mates we can ask. They've been down there 4 times in recent memory after all and only two of those years had us and/or Rangers down there with them.

 

I just googled Hibs accounts for their final season in the championship 2016-17. They had record season ticket sales, including not only sales following winning the cup, but also sales at the end of the season having been promoted, which counted in that financial period. They also sold Jason Cummings during that financial year. They still made a loss of £277k.

 

Take out the boost they got from winning the cup and the fee for Cummings and that year the loss for His would have been millions.

 

Also as a comparison, their turnover in year ending 2016 (when they won the cup but otherwise were typically championship) was about 70% of their turnover in 2018 back in the championship. Again take cup and Rangers out the league and that figure would be even worse.

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Guest ToqueJambo
4 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I just googled Hibs accounts for their final season in the championship 2016-17. They had record season ticket sales, including not only sales following winning the cup, but also sales at the end of the season having been promoted, which counted in that financial period. They also sold Jason Cummings during that financial year. They still made a loss of £277k.

 

Take out the boost they got from winning the cup and the fee for Cummings and that year the loss for His would have been millions.

 

Also as a comparison, their turnover in year ending 2016 (when they won the cup but otherwise were typically championship) was about 70% of their turnover in 2018 back in the championship. Again take cup and Rangers out the league and that figure would be even worse.

 

Obviously revenues would decline. I'm talking about the actual experience of watching the team.

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2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Obviously revenues would decline. I'm talking about the actual experience of watching the team.

 

Oh, I misunderstood then. I thought your reference to not threatening our existence was referring to finance.

 

From a footballing perspective, I guess it will vary from fan to fan depending on their tastes. Personally, I have no appetite for another season in the Championship.

 

Anyway, looking at the Hibs finances confirmed to me my fears that it could be financially ruinous. Like Hibs we might get lucky and be OK, but it would be a risk far higher than I'd be comfortable with. I certainly wouldn't feel liberated.

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

If we do go down we will need to use it to rid ourselves of the imposters in the squad, and those responsible for the situation we will find ourselves in. I’m not sure if it will be liberating but we will need to come back stronger. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

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queensferryjambo

Getting relegated will have absolutely no positives.

 

Last time the circumstances of why we went down made it almost forgivable and of course we romped the league, Rangers and Hibs were in the league so at least derby matches and bigger games.

 

It will really be shite this time around.

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6 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Stendal won't be the manager next season.

Time to consider pressing the panic button as to whether Stendel should be the Manager now!!!

 

We basically have 11 (13 if we're lucky) games to ward off complete unmitigated disaster.

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6 hours ago, Boab said:

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.

The circumstances were different; though.   We also had Rangers and Hibs early.  We beat them both, with Rangers at Ibrox, something we rarely do, especially in a meaningful game. 

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7 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

I'm going to be honest with you. The club cant afford to be relegated. We have payers on large contracts. We will be 3 million or more over budget 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
4 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Can we just delete Kickback?

 

It would genuinely help Heart of Midlothian  Football club.

:cornette:

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Geoff Kilpatrick
56 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Time to consider pressing the panic button as to whether Stendel should be the Manager now!!!

 

We basically have 11 (13 if we're lucky) games to ward off complete unmitigated disaster.

Behave!

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1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Behave!

Apologies, nothing to see here and all is fine and dandy.

 

Stendel's failure to have won any matches against bottom 6 opposition isn't in anyway a cause for concern.

 

And in what way is an unforeseen potential drop in revenue of £3m not an unmitigated disaster?

 

We need to do whatever it takes to stay up.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, David McCaig said:

Apologies, nothing to see here and all is fine and dandy.

 

Stendel's failure to have won any matches against bottom 6 opposition isn't in anyway a cause for concern.

 

And in what way is an unforeseen potential drop in revenue of £3m not an unmitigated disaster?

 

We need to do whatever it takes to stay up.

The idea of sacking Stendel now is bonkers. We sink or swim with him because the notion that these players will suddenly transform under someone else is a nonsense. Any new appointment will be stuck with them.

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3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The idea of sacking Stendel now is bonkers. We sink or swim with him because the notion that these players will suddenly transform under someone else is a nonsense. Any new appointment will be stuck with them.

This squad of players shouldn't be losing ground to Hamilton and St Mirren.

 

We need to go back to basics and become hard to beat.  The likes of Naismith and Boyce should still have goals in them even with a more defensive outlook.

 

The question is whether Stendel can ditch the idealism in favour of pragmatism and common sense?

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12 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The idea of sacking Stendel now is bonkers. We sink or swim with him because the notion that these players will suddenly transform under someone else is a nonsense. Any new appointment will be stuck with them.

It would take her 2 months to appoint a new manager anyway going on her previous efforts

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The rage (and rightly so) this time round if we go down would be night and day compared to last time. 
the players , owner , Levein and quite possibly Stendell would have no rock to crawl under. 
liberating ? Not a feking chance. 
Likely ? I’d say stick on cert we are going down now

 

i hate having to see the word Levein.  Typing it gives me the boak

Edited by 1971fozzy
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9 minutes ago, glynnlondon said:

It would take her 2 months to appoint a new manager anyway going on her previous efforts


And another 2  to get their assistant.

shambles 

 

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20 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

This squad of players shouldn't be losing ground to Hamilton and St Mirren.

 

We need to go back to basics and become hard to beat.  The likes of Naismith and Boyce should still have goals in them even with a more defensive outlook.

 

The question is whether Stendel can ditch the idealism in favour of pragmatism and common sense?


he needs to stop playing fantasy football with a squad that aren’t anywhere near good enough to play it. Then we may have a chance. 
Sooner he stops playing this like a computer game the better. 
 

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7 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Why would the club with by far the biggest resources in the league be down for a few years? That's a bit like saying Celtic won't win the league for a few years. Why would it take years to rebuild trust?

 

Not after an argument, I just genuinely don't think that would be the case. A few good decisions and results and we'd all be back on the happy rain.

Because we have a far bigger resource than seven of the clubs above us this season.  Also possibly slightly bigger  than another one or two. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
40 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

This squad of players shouldn't be losing ground to Hamilton and St Mirren.

 

We need to go back to basics and become hard to beat.  The likes of Naismith and Boyce should still have goals in them even with a more defensive outlook.

 

The question is whether Stendel can ditch the idealism in favour of pragmatism and common sense?

In theory, yes. In practice, there is no fight in this team. Soft as shite.

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8 hours ago, Boab said:

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.


Last time we were fighting back from near extinction and watching a team of young players giving us our pride back. 
 

This time would be a massive humiliation for us and I think it will take a long time for the club to recover. 
 

There is also a simmering anger right now that will explode if we do go down. 

 

And the 50% reduction in FoH is exaggerating, but it will drop substantially I reckon.  

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Geoff Kilpatrick
1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:


Last time we were fighting back from near extinction and watching a team of young players giving us our pride back. 
 

This time would be a massive humiliation for us and I think it will take a long time for the club to recover. 
 

There is also a simmering anger right now that will explode if we do go down. 

 

And the 50% reduction in FoH is exaggerating, but it will drop substantially I reckon.  

Especially if FoH continue to back Budge.

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15 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

No but we'll stroll the championship and come straight back up. 

I have seen nothing over the last 18 months or so to suggest we would ‘stroll’ the Championship. 

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3 minutes ago, Paolo said:

I have seen nothing over the last 18 months or so to suggest we would ‘stroll’ the Championship. 

As seen previously, the championship is very poor. Players will move on and new players will come in, we won't be going with the same squad. Dundee United have shown how poor the league is. The fact that Berra has moved to Dundee and is getting praise for his performances shows how bad the league is. 

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Forever Hearts
9 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

Unbelievable. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, Ari Gold said:

As seen previously, the championship is very poor. Players will move on and new players will come in, we won't be going with the same squad. Dundee United have shown how poor the league is. The fact that Berra has moved to Dundee and is getting praise for his performances shows how bad the league is. 

Whether we come straight back up or not is moot. This would be our version of the vermin getting relegated along with us. We'd be a fecking laughing stock and deservedly so.

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Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Whether we come straight back up or not is moot. This would be our version of the vermin getting relegated along with us. We'd be a fecking laughing stock and deservedly so.

 

Okay.... Not sure I've said anything different to that. I'm just saying we'll come straight back up, not that relegation is acceptable or liberating. 

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12 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

In theory, yes. In practice, there is no fight in this team. Soft as shite.

That's where the short-termism of a Managerial change can pay dividends.

 

In a perfect world, I want Stendel's magical 'gegenpress' to click into gear, just as I wanted Cathro to be the game changer who broke the status quo... But actually much as I hate myself for saying it, maybe an old school 442 "get intake them" Manager is exactly what we need between now and the end of the season.

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Forever Hearts
1 minute ago, Ari Gold said:

 

Okay.... Not sure I've said anything different to that. I'm just saying we'll come straight back up, not that relegation is acceptable or liberating. 

What makes you so sure that we'll come straight back up? 

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13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

There is also a simmering anger right now that will explode if we do go down


Yep. It’s definitely simmering. It’s going to get very ugly unless we start winning soon. 
patience is fast running out now for the support and anymore benny hill performances will not be tolerated.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

That's where the short-termism of a Managerial change can pay dividends.

 

In a perfect world, I want Stendel's magical 'gegenpress' to click into gear, just as I wanted Cathro to be the game changer who broke the status quo... But actually much as I hate myself for saying it, maybe an old school 442 "get intake them" Manager is exactly what we need between now and the end of the season.

But this is where you and I disagree. I look at the likes of Souttar and Halkett and see talented players. I'd also never want them to play in a game where my life was on the line.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
5 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

 

Okay.... Not sure I've said anything different to that. I'm just saying we'll come straight back up, not that relegation is acceptable or liberating. 

Fair enough. I don't want to find out if you are correct or not.

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3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Whether we come straight back up or not is moot. This would be our version of the vermin getting relegated along with us. We'd be a fecking laughing stock and deservedly so.

It would be well nigh impossible not to come straight back up, given the sheer abysmalness of the Championship these days, but as you say we would deservedly be a laughing stock.
 

They could win 30 out of 36 games in the Championship next season and I still wouldn't deem it worthy of a lap of honour!!
 

But what is important right now is thinking how do we outperform Hamilton over the next 11 games.  Do we really back Stendel's tactics in a bottom 6 dog fight?

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1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

But this is where you and I disagree. I look at the likes of Souttar and Halkett and see talented players. I'd also never want them to play in a game where my life was on the line.

I see a squad of talented players underperforming on an epic scale.
 

The penalty against Hamilton was the perfect example of how we have mastered the art of shooting ourselves in the face.  

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Geoff Kilpatrick
2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

It would be well nigh impossible not to come straight back up, given the sheer abysmalness of the Championship these days, but as you say we would deservedly be a laughing stock.
 

They could win 30 out of 36 games in the Championship next season and I still wouldn't deem it worthy of a lap of honour!!
 

But what is important right now is thinking how do we outperform Hamilton over the next 11 games.  Do we really back Stendel's tactics in a bottom 6 dog fight?

I actually don't care what tactics we use. I just want results.

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7 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

What makes you so sure that we'll come straight back up? 

Players will move on, we'll replace them. 

More importantly the championship is terrible. Shankland aside, do you look at that Dundee United side and think 5 or 6 of their players would improve us? I don't and they are winning that league at a canter. 

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6 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I actually don't care what tactics we use. I just want results.

I agree with that 100%

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Forever Hearts
9 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Players will move on, we'll replace them. 

More importantly the championship is terrible. Shankland aside, do you look at that Dundee United side and think 5 or 6 of their players would improve us? I don't and they are winning that league at a canter. 

And who do we replace them with? They won't be queuing up to sign for a Championship Hearts side. 

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How Ironic it would be - After saving the club, establishing FOH, taking over the club and we are back in the league where it all began.

 

Was that the 5 year plan?

 

Still believe we are not going down

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4 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

And who do we replace them with? They won't be queuing up to sign for a Championship Hearts side. 

You're right, there will be no players wanting to sign for Hearts. We will never sign another player until we get promoted.

Come on mate. 

There were plenty of players wanting to sign for us last time we went down and there will this time. 

Edited by Ari Gold
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Some good debate and responses here. I’m certainly not wishing relegation upon us, just wanted to gauge opinion.

 

I’m generally a pretty optimistic fan, however I have no faith in this squads ability to drag us out of this.

 

Clearly the hope is we stay up and can have the ‘reboot’ over the summer while still being in the top league 🤞🤞

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