Byyy The Light Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Look at the areas Messi plays in. Ronaldo is a phenomenal goal scorer but he’s an out and out striker. He can’t do the things Messi does with the ball. Argue over stats all you want, it’s these things that put Messi clearly ahead as a footballer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, Riddley Walker said: Messi is the best playmaker of all time as well as the best goalscorer. Ronaldo's overall game isn't even close. When someone says Ronaldo is better it makes me think they haven't watched Messi play or they know nothing about football. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Byyy The Light said: Look at the areas Messi plays in. Ronaldo is a phenomenal goal scorer but he’s an out and out striker. He can’t do the things Messi does with the ball. Argue over stats all you want, it’s these things that put Messi clearly ahead as a footballer. Almost nine & a half minutes of Messi creating in 2018 alone, of which the first six minutes are ball in for players pretty much one on one with the keeper or for a wide man to square for a tap-in and not a single goal is scored, and that is one year of highlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) Has to be Messi, just an extraterrestrial footballer of the like we might never see again. Ronaldo is essentially "just" a goalscoring machine. Ronaldo does have some physical advantages with his height though. I'm guessing that's got him more headed goals. Ronaldo has helped his nation to a trophy though. If one of them can single-handedly (no pun intended) inspire their nation to a World Cup win that would seal it. That's why Maradona is still the best ever. Edited February 23, 2020 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Riddley Walker said: Messi is the best playmaker of all time as well as the best goalscorer. Ronaldo's overall game isn't even close. When someone says Ronaldo is better it makes me think they haven't watched Messi play or they know nothing about football. Lot of Shite , Because you and a couple of trumpets say Messi is miles ahead of Ronaldo that makes it somehow gospel 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Neither are the best of all time in my humble opinion. I would say Maradona. Between those two, Cristiano for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Neither are the best of all time in my humble opinion. I would say Maradona. Between those two, Cristiano for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 4 hours ago, ramrod said: Lot of Shite , Because you and a couple of trumpets say Messi is miles ahead of Ronaldo that makes it somehow gospel 😂 Absolute nap you're a middle aged man with CR7-branded covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Riddley Walker said: Absolute nap you're a middle aged man with CR7-branded covers. Absolutely nap you're a slavering bawbag . Ps have a look at the first page for my thoughts on the pair , pure class the both of them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 minute ago, ramrod said: Absolutely nap you're a slavering bawbag . Ps have a look at the first page for my thoughts on the pair , pure class the both of them . You okay mate? You seem a bit angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Gold Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) Ronaldo is an unbelievable goal scorer. Frightening mentality. All round footballer? It's not close. Messi miles ahead. Best playmaker in the world who also scores 40 a season. Don't get the argument about Ronaldo playing in Italy etc. If he signed for Parma and took them to the treble then fair enough. Signing for Juventus and being outscored by a 35 Quaglieria isn't an argument to make him better than Messi. Folk who think Ronaldo is better watch goal clips and read headlines. Edited February 23, 2020 by Ari Gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uche Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Cristiano Ronaldo the greatest of all time. Messi has the greatest natural ability, but Ronaldo has worked incredibly hard to fine-tune himself into an absolute machine who has done it at all of the top clubs, leagues, and onto the international stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Uche said: Cristiano Ronaldo the greatest of all time. Messi has the greatest natural ability, but Ronaldo has worked incredibly hard to fine-tune himself into an absolute machine who has done it at all of the top clubs, leagues, and onto the international stage. Really unsure how playing in more leagues as opposed to staying at one club can be used as a thing against Messi. Can you or someone explain this. For example, Giggs, Scholes staying with man Utd never made them a better or worse player. In fact, the way Real Madrid have coped without Ronaldo indicates he hasn't been missed as much as maybe many thought he would be. Edited February 23, 2020 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uche Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Just now, Smith's right boot said: Really sure how playing in more leagues as opposed to staying at one club can be used as a thing against Messi. Can you or someone explain this. For example, Giggs Scholes staying with man Utd never made him a better or worse player. In fact, the way Real Madrid have coped without Ronaldo indicates he hasn't been missed as much as maybe many thought he would be. You are kidding me right? They are nowhere near the same side and have struggled massively since he left. Any forward with Xavi and Iniesta (i.e. the greatest CM pairing ever) behind them for 90% of their playing career is going to fare pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Uche said: You are kidding me right? They are nowhere near the same side and have struggled massively since he left. Any forward with Xavi and Iniesta (i.e. the greatest CM pairing ever) behind them for 90% of their playing career is going to fare pretty well. They can’t be the greatest CM pairing ever because they played at Barcelona their whole careers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Still reckon Iniesta was a better play maker than Messi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Uche said: You are kidding me right? They are nowhere near the same side and have struggled massively since he left. Any forward with Xavi and Iniesta (i.e. the greatest CM pairing ever) behind them for 90% of their playing career is going to fare pretty well. Real have a decent chance of the league, first time in a while. Also by your own argument spending a long time at one club is a disadvantage in a player being the best, how's that different with Iniesta? Also, one could argue that Xavi and Iniesta had an easy time with the likes of Messi and Ronladhnio (sp) in front of them. Ronaldo also played with world class players, he's hardly played with shite at man Utd, real and juventus. Edited February 23, 2020 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 That 2016-17 double winning team Madrid had was a truly phenomenal team with a midfield performing as good as any Pep's midfield produced, and their full backs, Marcelo and Carvajal were at the absolute top of their games. Ronaldo was undoubtedly being fed by one of the greatest club sides ever (for that year anyway, imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 9 hours ago, ArcticJambo said: Almost nine & a half minutes of Messi creating in 2018 alone, of which the first six minutes are ball in for players pretty much one on one with the keeper or for a wide man to square for a tap-in and not a single goal is scored, and that is one year of highlights. Just watched it again. How anyone can watch that and think Ronaldo is a better football player baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 23/02/2020 at 00:59, ri Alban said: Maradona turn to drugs thro painkillers because of the treatment he endured. Messi and Ronaldo wouldn't have lasted two minutes back then. That’s hard to believe. He admitted himself ”In 2014 he told Argentina’s Tyc Sports ‘I gave my opponents a big advantage due to m lonesome. Do you know the player I could have been if I hadn’t taken drugs?’ Do you also not think Pelé or Cruyff was given harsh treatment on the field back in the da? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoPo Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Because it is a close call, the differential for me is that Ronaldo almost single handedly elevated his national team to levels of achievement they would never have known without him. Messi just wasn't good enough to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said: That’s hard to believe. He admitted himself ”In 2014 he told Argentina’s Tyc Sports ‘I gave my opponents a big advantage due to m lonesome. Do you know the player I could have been if I hadn’t taken drugs?’ Do you also not think Pelé or Cruyff was given harsh treatment on the field back in the da? Different people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 22/02/2020 at 21:22, Gashauskis9 said: Maradona is the answer (a hybrid of the modern two), but if this is strictly Ronaldo v Messi then it has to be Ronaldo. Great point made about having to prove yourself and maintain standards for different clubs. This is exactly my thinking too. If you had asked me 3 or 4 years ago, I would probably have said Messi, but Ronaldo just seems to get better and better the older he gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 13 hours ago, Fort Vallance said: Neither are the best of all time in my humble opinion. I would say Maradona. Between those two, Cristiano for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 22/02/2020 at 23:38, JFK-1 said: I feel a downside for Messi is that he has spent his entire career at Barcelona playing for a dominant money side in a league that's overall less competitive than others such as England or Italy. I think Ronaldo left Real because his massive ego is always looking at the record books. Clarence Seedorf is the only player to have won 3 Champions League trophies at 3 different clubs. Ronaldo and his ego want to match that. You do realise Juve have won Serie A 8 years in a row.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 The only way is down when you play for Barcelona, why the feck should you be criticised for wanting to play for an inferior club? Love them both is my answer to the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: Really unsure how playing in more leagues as opposed to staying at one club can be used as a thing against Messi. Can you or someone explain this. For example, Giggs, Scholes staying with man Utd never made them a better or worse player. In fact, the way Real Madrid have coped without Ronaldo indicates he hasn't been missed as much as maybe many thought he would be. This is the negative against Pele being hailed as the greatest for me. Played almost his entire career with Santos, yes he scored a barrowload of goals for them, but against who? Yes he proved himself in World Cups, but would like to have seen his record playing every year against the top quality players in Europe’s top leagues and tournaments. Look at Bican, 805 goals and played in a World Cup semifinal, but played his career in a shit league against poor opposition. You want to be seen as the best then you need to prove yourself against them for most if not all of your career imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: Different people. Agreed, hence why Maradona is discounted because he turned to cocaine as a luxury way to entertain himself. He was a great player but not fit to lace the shoes of the likes of Pelé as a result of the drug taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said: This is the negative against Pele being hailed as the greatest for me. Played almost his entire career with Santos, yes he scored a barrowload of goals for them, but against who? Yes he proved himself in World Cups, but would like to have seen his record playing every year against the top quality players in Europe’s top leagues and tournaments. Look at Bican, 805 goals and played in a World Cup semifinal, but played his career in a shit league against poor opposition. You want to be seen as the best then you need to prove yourself against them for most if not all of your career imo. Champions League is where the best players in the world play every year. Messi has proven himself comfortably in that company for the last 15 years - despite being a one club man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Flaps_98 said: Champions League is where the best players in the world play every year. Messi has proven himself comfortably in that company for the last 15 years - despite being a one club man. Indeed he has, just like Ronaldo. There are arguments for both to who is better, as they are both incredible players. If I was getting first pick right now in a kickabout though, mr 6pack would be in my team and Captain. If Messi was in my team, he wouldn’t be, as he’s not a born leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said: Agreed, hence why Maradona is discounted because he turned to cocaine as a luxury way to entertain himself. He was a great player but not fit to lace the shoes of the likes of Pelé as a result of the drug taking. Viagra is that not a drug? I'm sure that's entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 A goalscoring machine vs an all round genius. A massive natural talent v a guy with superhuman dedication and application. Apples v Oranges...Why do we need a GOAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said: Agreed, hence why Maradona is discounted because he turned to cocaine as a luxury way to entertain himself. He was a great player but not fit to lace the shoes of the likes of Pelé as a result of the drug taking. Your discounting Maradona as the greatest because of how he entertained himself off the pitch🙀 and therefore not fit to lace the boots of a guy who hid in his own league his whole career. On that logic, Best and Messi must be way down the greatest list too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 48 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said: This is the negative against Pele being hailed as the greatest for me. Played almost his entire career with Santos, yes he scored a barrowload of goals for them, but against who? Yes he proved himself in World Cups, but would like to have seen his record playing every year against the top quality players in Europe’s top leagues and tournaments. Look at Bican, 805 goals and played in a World Cup semifinal, but played his career in a shit league against poor opposition. You want to be seen as the best then you need to prove yourself against them for most if not all of your career imo. Pele, yes but Messi has been playing in a top league and at the very top level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 This rhetoric that Messi is poorer because he has played for Barca his whole career and the fact Ronaldo has switched club a few times makes him so much better is ridiculous. Ronaldo moved to Man United, who had won 8 out of the previous 11 league titles at that point, then Real, who had won 2 out of the last 3 La Ligas at that time. He then joined Juve who had won 8 titles in a row before then. Its not as if Ronaldo was joining struggling teams and has massively improved them. Messi has played with great players. Ronaldo has played with great players. The leagues they have played in do not prove or disprove anything about their ability. I'd argue Messi moving thousands of miles from home when he was 13 is a bigger challenge than moving clubs when you are an established pro. you have to just make your own mind up as to what type of player you prefer to see. I find watching Messi makes me smile and gets me off my seat. Ronaldo is incredible and is defying his age now, but I prefer watching Messi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said: Pele, yes but Messi has been playing in a top league and at the very top level. He has, but to be at the top and be considered as the greatest, imo you have to be able to carry your club and country to the top.... Messi✅❌ Maradona✅✅ Pele✅✅ Ronaldo✅✅ Zidane✅✅ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said: He has, but to be at the top and be considered as the greatest, imo you have to be able to carry your club and country to the top.... Messi✅❌ Maradona✅✅ Pele✅✅ Ronaldo✅✅ Zidane✅✅ This logic is mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Also this myth that Ronaldo carried Portugal to Euro 2016 glory is nonsense. He scored 2 goals vs Hungary and one vs Wales and played less than 10mins in the final. They drew all their group games and only won 1 match in 90mins. He didn't exactly tear up the tournament did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Just now, Flaps_98 said: Also this myth that Ronaldo carried Portugal to Euro 2016 glory is nonsense. He scored 2 goals vs Hungary and one vs Wales and played less than 10mins in the final. They drew all their group games and only won 1 match in 90mins. He didn't exactly tear up the tournament did he? I’m not saying he carried them in the final, but I don’t think they would have even made the final without him in the team, it’s not just about scoring goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 If Ronaldo wins the champs league with Juve he is the goat. That’d be league titles + champions leagues with 3 clubs in the 3 top European football countries. Portugal have to be among the favourites for the Euros too... Ronaldo wins on diversity of his achievements, Messi has just repeated the same achievements at Barcelona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said: I’m not saying he carried them in the final, but I don’t think they would have even made the final without him in the team, it’s not just about scoring goals. You said you have to carry your club and your country to the top. He didn't carry them to the Euros. I know it isn't all about goals and thats why Messi shouldn't get hammered for not winning a title with Argenitina when Higuain has missed some sitters Messi has laid on a plate for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said: He has, but to be at the top and be considered as the greatest, imo you have to be able to carry your club and country to the top.... Messi✅❌ Maradona✅✅ Pele✅✅ Ronaldo✅✅ Zidane✅✅ Greece won the Euros, it's hardly the top. Messi played in a WC final, Ronaldo is a total flop at ever WC he's been in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 28 minutes ago, Flaps_98 said: This rhetoric that Messi is poorer because he has played for Barca his whole career and the fact Ronaldo has switched club a few times makes him so much better is ridiculous. Ronaldo moved to Man United, who had won 8 out of the previous 11 league titles at that point, then Real, who had won 2 out of the last 3 La Ligas at that time. He then joined Juve who had won 8 titles in a row before then. Its not as if Ronaldo was joining struggling teams and has massively improved them. Messi has played with great players. Ronaldo has played with great players. The leagues they have played in do not prove or disprove anything about their ability. I'd argue Messi moving thousands of miles from home when he was 13 is a bigger challenge than moving clubs when you are an established pro. you have to just make your own mind up as to what type of player you prefer to see. I find watching Messi makes me smile and gets me off my seat. Ronaldo is incredible and is defying his age now, but I prefer watching Messi. Maradona won the title with Boca, even though they hadn’t won it for around 5/6 years, with an average squad. Maradona won the title with Napoli, even though they had never won it before, with an average squad. Maradona won the World Cup, even though they were nowhere in the last one, with an average squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 23/02/2020 at 08:34, Jeff said: Nice guy off the pitch so I've read, however on the pitch he can be a right dick. Apart from being a rapist, Ronaldo's a great guy. A real class act... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, Flaps_98 said: You said you have to carry your club and your country to the top. He didn't carry them to the Euros. I know it isn't all about goals and thats why Messi shouldn't get hammered for not winning a title with Argenitina when Higuain has missed some sitters Messi has laid on a plate for him. Portugal are a totally different team without him on the pitch, no way would they have won that tournament if he wasn’t in that squad. The greats lift a team around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: Apart from being a rapist, Ronaldo's a great guy. A real class act... You could also jail Messi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaps_98 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 minute ago, luckyBatistuta said: Portugal are a totally different team without him on the pitch, no way would they have won that tournament if he wasn’t in that squad. The greats lift a team around them. And there is no way Argentina would've made a World Cup final and 2 Copa America finals without Messi in the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Greece won the Euros, it's hardly the top. Messi played in a WC final, Ronaldo is a total flop at ever WC he's been in. and he didn’t step up in that final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Flaps_98 said: And there is no way Argentina would've made a World Cup final and 2 Copa America finals without Messi in the squad. and just as I said above, he didn’t step up in that final, just fell short. I’m not saying Messi isn’t one of the greatest, just not THE imo Edited February 24, 2020 by luckyBatistuta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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