The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You could just have a parliament of Northern Britain, make everything north of the watford gap one large devolved area

 

Too many brown skinned folk in the midlands for my tastes, doc. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The two bits in bold are key here. It's clear that England does have immigration amd intigration issues on a different scale from those up here, but it's also clear that these aren't equal and everywhere. Many of the regions of England themselves could also make a solid case for independence or some sort of devolved regional government. I guess it becomes progressively more difficult to convince regional populations of the value of shared risk, responsibility, and reward when the lions share of the spoils seem to perpetually concentrate around a seemingly remote seat of power - which brings us inevitably to where we find ourselves today. I can't help but find it unfair that I have a potential get-out based largely on a line defined around 800 years ago when my mate a couple of miles down the road does not. It reeks.

 

I agree that the half-way-house as it exists at the moment is not the answer, and would argue for a complete restructuring of central and regional power-relations within the UK as a whole. That we haven't had electoral reform in the shape of some flavour of proportional representation with a stronger regional influence tells it's own story.

I think they offered a northern assembly didn’t they and the people of north England didn’t fancy it? Might be wrong...

Anyway I think smithee said it that until there’s a one world order and borders etc are no more we’re left with two options as I see it. Stick with the ruk and take whatever the bigger partner decides is best all the time or make your own way. It’s like having shareholders the U.K, one partner has 80 odd percent and the rest is spread between the smaller shareholders. If that was a company who makes the decisions that matter? It’s pretty obvious and if you like it that way then who I am to tell you you’re wrong. It’s all fair enough man. 
If your friends on the other side of the imaginary line like what’s happening here in the event of us going on our own way they’re more than welcome to come here. 

[doctor jambo]

43 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Too many brown skinned folk in the midlands for my tastes, doc. 

They would all hop south of the border once the new front line was established

[manaliveits105]

Scotland  could do with a circuit breaker from the snp 

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scotland  could do with a circuit breaker from the snp 

This thread could do with on from...join the dots... 🙂

[Justin Z]

45 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

I can't help but find it unfair that I have a potential get-out based largely on a line defined around 800 years ago when my mate a couple of miles down the road does not. It reeks.

 

I wonder how many politically consequential bits and bobs throughout history occurred at least partially thanks to dumb accidents like this—but we just don't think about it.

 

Personally, I'm waiting for a worldwide workers' revolution, but in the meantime? Well, I'd never heard of the North East England devolution referendum till @jack D and coke just brought it up, and **** me, 22% yes, 78% no? 26% support where I assume your mate lives in Berwick? Zero council areas voting yes? I mean, if Scots are ultimately more bold in their political moves than their Northeastern English counterparts, at some point surely it's time to just say "they've had chances of their own" and get on with it, right?

 

Plus, that plays back into what I said earlier—this inclusive, civic nationalism as part of the independence movement means there's a place for just about anyone. So the 26% in Berwick who voted yes couldn't get a majority on board, but that's fine, they're free to come on over. Is there a fairer solution given the totality of the circumstances?

[Governor Tarkin]

42 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I wonder how many politically consequential bits and bobs throughout history occurred at least partially thanks to dumb accidents like this—but we just don't think about it.

 

 

Undoubtably millions, and I do think about it. I think about it often.

 

42 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 I'd never heard of the North East England devolution referendum till @jack D and coke just brought it up, and **** me, 22% yes, 78% no? 26% support where I assume your mate lives in Berwick? Zero council areas voting yes? 

 

Mental eh. We can't accuse the NE of taking the petted lip when they don't get their own way.

 

42 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

this inclusive, civic nationalism as part of the independence movement means there's a place for just about anyone. So the 26% in Berwick who voted yes couldn't get a majority on board, but that's fine, they're free to come on over. Is there a fairer solution given the totality of the circumstances?

 

Great. More refugees.

 

P.s. I love hearing about Scotland's inclusive, civic nationalism from someone who lived here for five minutes. It's almost like I've had my eyes closed for the last fifty years.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[strappingjock]

It is old but relevant - be careful what you wish for. After Indy is done -  Coal is gone, oil is going so what do we survive on?  Scotch and haggis, not the most healthy of foods and the way things are going they will be banned somewhere soon. We ARE out of the EU already so that is a dead horse.  Getting back would make us even more of a vassal state. The union is far from perfect but Brussels is little  short of the OKW.

 

Some one above mentioned Satan. Best dealing with the one you know. There is also the prospect of another bunch of devious politicians in an upper house in Scotland and an expensive presidential system we have to pay for.

Edited October 5, 2020 by strappingjock

[doctor jambo]

32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Undoubtably millions, and I do think about it. I think about it often.

 

 

Mental eh. We can't accuse the NE of taking the petted lip when they don't get their own way.

 

 

Great. More refugees.

 

P.s. I love hearing about Scotland's inclusive, civic nationalism from someone who lived here for five minutes. It's almost like I've had my eyes closed for the last fifty years.

Indeed..... I struggle to understand that he has failed to realise that scotland is just as full of dumb self interested dickheads as everywhere else.

And like his "homeland" , scotland has voted one of them into power

[Justin Z]

33 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Undoubtably millions, and I do think about it. I think about it often.

 

I dig.

  

20 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

P.s. I love hearing about Scotland's inclusive, civic nationalism from someone who lived here for five minutes. It's almost like I've had my eyes closed for the last fifty years.

 

Yeah weird, it's almost like an aspiring immigrant might have some insights about how a political movement makes non-native folks feel, that someone inured to a culture and country—by being from it and in it their whole lives—wouldn't necessarily automatically pick up on. I dunno, that might be important if you're genuinely intellectually curious rather than weirdly intent on beating a now-fossilised horse. Read the bloody article, which covers the multi-decade history of this concerted political effort, if deigning to hear about it from me is too much.

[Governor Tarkin]

36 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yeah weird, it's almost like an aspiring immigrant might have some insights about how a political movement makes non-native folks feel, that someone inured to a culture and country—by being from it and in it their whole lives—wouldn't necessarily automatically pick up on.

 

Come back and look at this next time you're telling folk they know **** all because they haven't lived it on the BLM thread. 👍

 

Or are they a different kind of wrong?

 

36 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

I dunno

 

Correct.

 

36 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Read the bloody article, which covers the multi-decade history of this concerted political effort

 

Would that be the concerted political effort I've been living through over multiple decades?

 

36 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

that might be important if you're genuinely intellectually curious rather than weirdly intent on beating a now-fossilised horse.

 

Shit. Busted.

 

36 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

I dig.

 

Probably time we both stopped digging, bud.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Justin Z]

37 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Come back and look at this next time you're telling folk they know **** all because they haven't lived it on the BLM thread. 👍

 

Or are they a different kind of wrong?

 

This question might be apposite if I had really only spent five minutes in Scotland.

 

39 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Would that be the concerted political effort I've been living through over multiple decades?

 

It would. Are you intellectually curious and genuinely seeking more information? Do you have a reason to be dismissive of it beyond "I, the Grand Moff of a galaxy far, far away, don't care about it"?

 

38 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Probably time we both stopped digging, bud.

 

True. I really like your desire to try to understand such a wide-reaching question that has so many implications with the approach you've chosen, and as such I would like to be helpful. But if what I see as rigorous analysis of the question only amounts to an annoyance in your mind, that's the opposite of helpful.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, strappingjock said:

It is old but relevant - be careful what you wish for. After Indy is done -  Coal is gone, oil is going so what do we survive on?  Scotch and haggis, not the most healthy of foods and the way things are going they will be banned somewhere soon. We ARE out of the EU already so that is a dead horse.  Getting back would make us even more of a vassal state. The union is far from perfect but Brussels is little  short of the OKW.

 

Some one above mentioned Satan. Best dealing with the one you know. There is also the prospect of another bunch of devious politicians in an upper house in Scotland and an expensive presidential system we have to pay for.

Here he goes  

[Governor Tarkin]

40 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

This question might be apposite if I had really only spent five minutes in Scotland.

 

 

Ok, ten minutes then.

 

41 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

It would. Are you intellectually curious and genuinely seeking more information? Do you have a reason to be dismissive of it beyond "I, the Grand Moff of a galaxy far, far away, don't care about it"?

 

 

It was a decent article, thanks, but there was little in it that was new to me. 👍

 

47 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

True. I really like your desire to try to understand such a wide-reaching question that has so many implications with the approach you've chosen, and as such I would like to be helpful. But if what I see as rigorous analysis of the question only amounts to an annoyance in your mind, that's the opposite of helpful.

 

... And I really appreciate your input, along with everyone else who has taken the time to chip in too. I hope that the poorly thought out and badly executed barbs that go along with discussion are taken in the spirit that they are intended. 

[jack D and coke]

4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

I wonder how many politically consequential bits and bobs throughout history occurred at least partially thanks to dumb accidents like this—but we just don't think about it.

 

Personally, I'm waiting for a worldwide workers' revolution, but in the meantime? Well, I'd never heard of the North East England devolution referendum till @jack D and coke just brought it up, and **** me, 22% yes, 78% no? 26% support where I assume your mate lives in Berwick? Zero council areas voting yes? I mean, if Scots are ultimately more bold in their political moves than their Northeastern English counterparts, at some point surely it's time to just say "they've had chances of their own" and get on with it, right?

 

Plus, that plays back into what I said earlier—this inclusive, civic nationalism as part of the independence movement means there's a place for just about anyone. So the 26% in Berwick who voted yes couldn't get a majority on board, but that's fine, they're free to come on over. Is there a fairer solution given the totality of the circumstances?

Didn’t know it was as hugely decisive as that. 
As you say they’ve had their say and take on it. 
Our move now. 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

... And I really appreciate your input, along with everyone else who has taken the time to chip in too. I hope that the poorly thought out and badly executed barbs that go along with discussion are taken in the spirit that they are intended. 

 

First round's on me.

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, weehammy said:

You’ve rightly highlighted the ideological nature of many SNP votes. That’s what allows the party to brush aside incompetence, scandal and in-fighting. They know they can rely absolutely on the votes of those who want independence. The clowns that currently run Edinburgh Council are a good example of zero consultation and taking the electorate for granted.

The other parties are far more likely to be punished by the electorate for their own shortcomings.

 

 

This is true but it's also true that support is still growing. It's not just that independence supporters are turning a blind eye, increasing numbers of those who can be persuaded are jumping too.

I think we've gone past critical mass now

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

This is true but it's also true that support is still growing. It's not just that independence supporters are turning a blind eye, increasing numbers of those who can be persuaded are jumping too.

I think we've gone past critical mass now

Which is a sad indictment of the Scottish electorate ,that support for the SNP can increase after many years of sheer incompetence in their running of the country. Scotland doesn't do normal politics.

[Unknown user]

7 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Which is a sad indictment of the Scottish electorate ,that support for the SNP can increase after many years of sheer incompetence in their running of the country. Scotland doesn't do normal politics.

It's a reflection of the nick of Westminster, if they had their act together none of this would be happening. The tide hasn't turned because people are suddenly turning a blind eye to what they don't like from the SNP, it's happening because of the perception that the British government has been making a rip roaring ***** of things on a level the SNP aren't even close to, and all we can do is hope England votes differently next time.

[Unknown user]

10 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Didn’t know it was as hugely decisive as that. 
As you say they’ve had their say and take on it. 
Our move now. 

 

It's all whataboutery, I live in Scotland so I'm into Scotland's situation, it's as simple as that.

If Yorkshire or Cornwall or Shetland want independence it's a conversation for them to have, its not for me to impose my thoughts on their right to self determination. 

[hmfcbilly]

On 04/10/2020 at 12:45, Fun Boaby said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/junior-minister-ash-denham-faces-snp-selection-fight-over-bills-and-schooling-z3llhtwc0

 

Another snout in the trough

Over 10k for edinburgh hotel expenses for a year. To be fair to the pour wee soul I believe she lives in the Peebles area so that commute of around 23 miles each way to holyrood would be brutal in winter! Wonder what the folk who drive or get a bus to and from peebles to Edinburgh feel about that? Or even constituents of East Edinburgh some of whom will be lucky if they are earning that a year if they work part time in supermarkets etc. Shes not done anything illegal though as MSP's are allowed to claim for hotel and meal costs if they live outwith their constituencies. Morally though you would be right to question the amount spent. Shes maybe got a secret lover up in Edinburgh so the hotel expenses come in handy??! Or maybe likes a swally after her work so it saves the hassle of getting home. Who knows??!

[Cruyff]

17 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

Over 10k for edinburgh hotel expenses for a year. To be fair to the pour wee soul I believe she lives in the Peebles area so that commute of around 23 miles each way to holyrood would be brutal in winter! Wonder what the folk who drive or get a bus to and from peebles to Edinburgh feel about that? Or even constituents of East Edinburgh some of whom will be lucky if they are earning that a year if they work part time in supermarkets etc. Shes not done anything illegal though as MSP's are allowed to claim for hotel and meal costs if they live outwith their constituencies. Morally though you would be right to question the amount spent. Shes maybe got a secret lover up in Edinburgh so the hotel expenses come in handy??! Or maybe likes a swally after her work so it saves the hassle of getting home. Who knows??!

Christ. That barely touches the sides of what John Lamont was claiming while at Holyrood and whilst owning a property in Edinburgh. 

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12767156.msp-claims-for-overnight-allowance-despite-owning-edinburgh-flat/

[hmfcbilly]

9 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Christ. That barely touches the sides of what John Lamont was claiming while at Holyrood and whilst owning a property in Edinburgh. 

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12767156.msp-claims-for-overnight-allowance-despite-owning-edinburgh-flat/

Could probably spend all day digging up on politicians of various parties and their eye-popping expenses claims but the original poster's point was about snouts in the trough. Bottom line is there are far too many of them at it regardless of what party they represent  

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Christ. That barely touches the sides of what John Lamont was claiming while at Holyrood and whilst owning a property in Edinburgh. 

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12767156.msp-claims-for-overnight-allowance-despite-owning-edinburgh-flat/

 brilliant

Love the bit about Murdo Fraser too, a man who wins no elections, nothing, ever yet gets a healthy wage plus expenses to talk absolute pish and tell us how bad the snp are. 
They’re all the same though and tbf I’d be doing it you can’t really blame them for claiming. You’d see others doing it and think feck it so will I then. 
It’s the system that needs changing. 
No wonder lockdowns etc just mean nothing to these people. 

[Cruyff]

51 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

Could probably spend all day digging up on politicians of various parties and their eye-popping expenses claims but the original poster's point was about snouts in the trough. Bottom line is there are far too many of them at it regardless of what party they represent  

 

49 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 brilliant

Love the bit about Murdo Fraser too, a man who wins no elections, nothing, ever yet gets a healthy wage plus expenses to talk absolute pish and tell us how bad the snp are. 
They’re all the same though and tbf I’d be doing it you can’t really blame them for claiming. You’d see others doing it and think feck it so will I then. 
It’s the system that needs changing. 
No wonder lockdowns etc just mean nothing to these people. 

Correct chaps, it's the only reason anyone becomes an MP it's a pure gravy train. 

[Governor Tarkin]

38 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

 

Correct chaps, it's the only reason anyone becomes an MP it's a pure gravy train. 

 

I'd be balls deep in it too tbf.

 

Hey @Justin Z, this popped up elsewhere and I thought of you.

 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'd be balls deep in it too tbf.

 

True story chief. 

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'd be balls deep in it too tbf.

 

Hey @Justin Z, this popped up elsewhere and I thought of you.

 

🤣

[Justin Z]

5 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Hey @Justin Z, this popped up elsewhere and I thought of you.

 

 

This is great. And who could argue?

[Guest]

Sleep with the fishes 

[Guest]

I smell shiiiiite

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758

[manaliveits105]

Liar liar bums on fire 

The Scottish people deserve better get her oot 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Liar liar bums on fire 

The Scottish people deserve better get her oot 

George Orwell - 1984

 

And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed — if all records told the same tale — then the lie passed into history and became truth.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Fun Boaby said:

I smell shiiiiite

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758

Well you would, considering you brush your teeth with it. 

[theshed]

3 hours ago, Fun Boaby said:

I smell shiiiiite

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758

Your hardly going to forget being told about that are you? 
 

Just another politician that lies through their teeth, all as bad as each other 

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, theshed said:

Your hardly going to forget being told about that are you? 
 

Just another politician that lies through their teeth, all as bad as each other 

 

[Guest]

A bit fortunate that this has come to light on the same day the headlines are about shutting hospitality.

 

A coincidence surely.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Amazing how the regular SNP cultists are avoiding this, bar aussieh. Bury their heads in the sand and carry on worshiping Nicola. Hope Salmond brings her down, but she is a slippy as an eel.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Amazing how the regular SNP cultists are avoiding this, bar aussieh. Bury their heads in the sand and carry on worshiping Nicola. Hope Salmond brings her down, but she is a slippy as an eel.

They've maybe forgotten  about it.

[Morgan]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Well you would, considering you brush your teeth with it. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Amazing how the regular SNP cultists are avoiding this, bar aussieh. Bury their heads in the sand and carry on worshiping Nicola. Hope Salmond brings her down, but she is a slippy as an eel.

Sorry I didn’t mean to quote this🤷🏽‍♂️
Site is a bag of shite atm, slow and jumpin about the screen

Edited October 7, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 hours ago, Fun Boaby said:

A bit fortunate that this has come to light on the same day the headlines are about shutting hospitality.

 

A coincidence surely.

 

My thoughts exactly. Get everyone going nuts about a puritanical lockdown. Should do a good job of deflecting the spotlight off this scandal. But will it? 

[Unknown user]

10 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Amazing how the regular SNP cultists are avoiding this, bar aussieh. Bury their heads in the sand and carry on worshiping Nicola. Hope Salmond brings her down, but she is a slippy as an eel.

 

I don't think the majority can be a cult mate, if anything it's the Tories that are the cult and you're the cultist.

Is there actually anyone on here who worships Sturgeon?

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't think the majority can be a cult mate, if anything it's the Tories that are the cult and you're the cultist.

Is there actually anyone on here who worships Sturgeon?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't think the majority can be a cult mate, if anything it's the Tories that are the cult and you're the cultist.

Is there actually anyone on here who worships Sturgeon?

Well, the post below yours answers question. Where do you get me being cultist from? Tories have been horrendous in recent years and Brexit biggest debacle parliament has seen. BJ and Hancock are useless and I didn't and won't be voting for them in whatever elections are coming along.

 

We need to judge politicians on actions and deeds, not just follow them because of their affiliated party.

[Guest]

If the opposition don't rip Sturgeon a new one at FMQ's today, they'd be as well packing up and going home.

 

Public Health Warning:  head bobble-wobble syndrome can be hypnotic to watch.  Don't drive or operate heavy machinery afterwards

 

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, the post below yours answers question. Where do you get me being cultist from? Tories have been horrendous in recent years and Brexit biggest debacle parliament has seen. BJ and Hancock are useless and I didn't and won't be voting for them in whatever elections are coming along.

 

We need to judge politicians on actions and deeds, not just follow them because of their affiliated party.

My bad, you come across as a tory. 

 

What we really need is independence so we have the ability to hire and fire politicians without the dominating issue being the deciding factor.

[manaliveits105]

17 hours ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

Nobody in their right mind is believing her story - playing a blinder in kicking independence into touch 

The Scottish people wont stand for this kind of nonsense 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Where’s the majority? At the recent general election the SNP hoovered up all those seats due to the first past the post system. Their percentage of votes cast in Scotland was 45%, while the other parties polled 55%. Similar to 2014.

 

The majority who want independence will vote SNP, the tide's turned.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, weehammy said:

Where’s the majority? At the recent general election the SNP hoovered up all those seats due to the first past the post system. Their percentage of votes cast in Scotland was 45%, while the other parties polled 55%. Similar to 2014.

 

Greens polled 1%, the SNP 45% and over 50% of Labour voters are independent supporters.

Take away the 200,000 no voters from the EU. That makes it about 190,000 votes in it from last time. How many voted no because of EU membership and other broken promises. And then there's Johnson, Mogg, Gove and of course Donald Trump with his Chlorine Chicken. 

What do you think is gonnae happen at Indyref2, other than a  landslide for self determination and taking back power, sovereignty and some self fecking respect(And a backbone) for the Scottish people.