The rise and fall of The SNP.

[manaliveits105]

Lady Ruth on top form today - chickens coming home to roost for the FM and SG 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

He’s taking a well earned break over here from lecturing people on the BLM and Donald Trump threads.

 

Still living rent-free in your head too, I see. And as usual, you're not clever enough to come up with any counterarguments. I realise it's frustrating to be wrong, especially far more often than not, but you really ought to take up anger management or something. Or better yet, use this incredible new tool called the internet to cure your ignorance.

 

5 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Back to your patronising best, I see, Justin.

 

See your post is a good post, especially given the tripe you were responding to. But it started with "Don't talk shite" and took kernels of truth about minority wacko elements that exist in any movement blown up to 100% of "nationalist Scotland" from a poster whose problematic views regarding people of different demographics are well established by his own words.

 

I am okay with being less than charitable to that, ymmv. Besides, I say the post I was patronisingly responding to to was far more patronising itself—considering the way it talked down to literal millions, compared to one ***** without the bus fare.

 

6 hours ago, Smithee said:

This post says more about your prejudices than anything else TBH.

I'm not a fan of the SNP, I dont like things like minimum unit pricing and sugar surcharges. I don't believe my government should be trying to shape me, they're there to be shaped by me.

We should have the freedom to **** up our lives, make poor choices and live with the consequences. The government should be worrying about roads and buses and hospitals and that, the things we need to support us. They should educate and persuade, not force their ideal on the population. 

 

But I'll vote SNP until Scotland's free to make our own choices.

 

And the OP's 🤡 premise was disproven in literally two posts.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Justin Z

[Justin Z]

Just now, weehammy said:

I’m crushed by your overwhelming pomposity and sanctimony. Off you go and pull a few statues down.

 

It's good to see you turning over a leaf and being honest with yourself for once. Crushed indeed.

[Justin Z]

And I see you used the internet to look up a couple of big words, to boot. See! Progress!

[Governor Tarkin]

*sigh*

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

*sigh*

 

Love ya, you big cuddly destroyer of planets.

[Governor Tarkin]

**** off Justin.

 

[SE16 3LN]

The First minister said she couldn't be expected to take responsibility 7 times today. Time to wake up and stop worshipping the National Deity.

[Ron Burgundy]

44 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

And I see you used the internet to look up a couple of big words, to boot. See! Progress!

This forum is for football fans who are more than probably just working class guys who love Hearts and The Shed is a little distraction where they can vent and give opinions on every sort of shit under the sun.

 

It's not really a place people come to receive an education but it can certainly provide new and useful information. And I find it fun and interesting.

 

It starts to grate when people use it to try and belittle others though.

 

Look it's clear you are a clever and well educated person so maybe a football forum is a great place to show off your search capabilities of the internet and your vast knowledge of the English language and how woke you are but you sort of cross a line when you accuse Unionists of being Rangers fans without the bus fares .

 

Especially as those you accuse are actually Hearts fans which is the sole reason (for most) of being on this site in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Justin Z]

9 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

This forum is for football fans who are more than probably just working class guys who love Hearts and The Shed is a little distraction where they can vent and give opinions on every sort of shit under the sun.

 

It's not really a place people come to receive an education but it can certainly provide new and useful information. And I find it fun and interesting.

 

It starts to grate when people use it to try and belittle others though.

 

Look it's clear you are a clever and well educated person so maybe a football forum is a great place to show off your search capabilities of the internet and your vast knowledge of the English language and how woke you are but you sort of cross a line when you accuse Unionists of being Rangers fans without the bus fares .

 

Especially as those you accuse are actually Hearts fans which is the sole reason (for most) of being on this site in the first place.

 

I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Hands up, there have been times I was just being a dick, and I take full responsibility for it. And you're right, I could probably take a kinder, gentler approach to dealing with someone like this. But it's hardly based on just the one post he made—and it's not that he's a unionist. I have called out "broad brush tarring" from nationalists in the same way, just ask @Pans Jambo or heaven forbid, @ri Alban.

 

But again, it's far more than just this one post, in this case. I'm content never to breathe another word about it, but I'll also never have any qualms pointing out exactly what he's all about if he's going to come out both firing directly at me, and talking utter pish.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Justin Z

[Unknown user]

7 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

There's a fair bit of truth in this. The whattaboutery is relentless yet many seem totally oblivious to it, or worse, feel that it's entirely justified.

 

The truth of the matter is that the least smelly shite in the bog is still a shite.

I'd like to see a discussion about Scotish self governance (a real one mind, not the baiting and mud-slinging that passes for discussion in the internet and 24 hour media age). A discussion that doesn't metion Westminster, doesn't mention England, doesn't mention taking back control, doesn't set the Scots and the folk who've chosen to settle here as uniquely situated to thrive in a 21st century globalised world, and a discussion which is entirely free from the misplaced romanticism which, ironically, is what draws so many to our shores and is what an essential sector of our economy is ultimately reliant upon (thanks Scott, Macpherson, Burns, et al). I'd like to see an introspective and critical analysis of our realistic economic and social aims, free from emotive terminology, jingoism, patriotism, whattaboutery and pride.

I'd like to see the case made on it's own merits, pitfalls, contingency, and importantly, at a fundamental level, is it morally the right thing to do.

Remember, the enemy here - in so much as there is one - isn't England and the English (whoever the **** they actually are),  and isn't necesarrily Westminster as a parliamentary institution - it's the corrupt, quasi-aristocratic political and financial elites who stalk it's halls. They're not uniquely the Scots' enemy, they're the majority of the population of the United Kingdom's enemy.

 

 

 

Back to your patronising best, I see, Justin.

 

 

When I look back, it only seems to be unionists talking about England being the enemy.

 

I certainly don't consider them the enemy, I lived there for years, and I favour a close relationship with our oldest friend. I'd prefer an EU style deal, i don't see the point in hard borders, tariffs, making life difficult for ordinary people.

 

I just don't think the English electorate should be deciding who governs Scotland.

[ri Alban]

Somebody say summit. 

[Unknown user]

Summit

[ri Alban]

I thought I heard someone talking about me. 

19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Summit 🤣

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by ri Alban

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Lady Ruth on top form today - chickens coming home to roost for the FM and SG 

That's me convinced. She is an utter moron and most SCOTS agree. 

[manaliveits105]

Margaret Ferrier snp mp tests positive the goes to Westminster as well as travelling on train - can this party do anything right ?

Derek McKay on news aalgain for still claiming MSP income despite his disgraceful behaviour - fat hibby black ford wasting parliamentary time by waffling on for half an hour and she who must not be challenged accused of telling porkies and obstructing justice 

deary deary me Scotland take note

[12XU]

Yes - the Ms Ferrier thing is a disgrace to the whole of the UK and Scotland - would love her to do the decent thing and resign her position - unfortunately SNP and decent decisions can’t go in the same sentence 

An absolute clown of a politician 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

There have been occasions, admittedly not recently, when the Scottish electorate tipped the balance in favour of Labour in UK elections.

 

Yeah, a decade and a half ago we had some slight say, when England's voting allowed it.

You've encapsulated the problem perfectly. 

[Beni]

2 hours ago, 12XU said:

Yes - the Ms Ferrier thing is a disgrace to the whole of the UK and Scotland - would love her to do the decent thing and resign her position - unfortunately SNP and decent decisions can’t go in the same sentence 

An absolute clown of a politician 

 

[manaliveits105]

But Dominic hadn’t tested positive then knowingly mix with other people

[A Boy Named Crow]

Ferrier has to go, a moron and a disgrace.

 

(Note, for the nuggets who  say it doesn't happen,  this^ was posted by an SNP voting, independence supporter)

[JyTees]

22 hours ago, Justin Z said:

This thread is 68 pages. One independence referendum thread is 39 pages, another is 81 pages, the SNP nonsense thread is 243 pages. Go look for yourself.

 

I didn't have my phone out recording the conversations I had at indy marches—though they were welcoming, inclusive, and of all national stripes, from Scottish to English to Portuguese to German to Norwegian to Spanish and on and on. The opposite of anything you've pulled out of your hate-filled fever dreams. Instead, you choose to compare the party and its members to Nazis—pure class as befits your usual low standard.

 

If you must insist on continuing to drone on like the zombie you are, go do so where it, and you, belong—in Ibrox. It's better for all involved.

 

Pap!

[JyTees]

Right on cue, the whataboutery turbo button has been pressed. No condemnation. No moral compass. Just pure, unadulterated whataboutery.

 

Great timing Mags 👍🏻

[JyTees]

And JZ, Whatever it is you'd like to insinuate against me in your anonymity, bashing away at the keys, frantically searching your thesaurus for big words and googling a synonym of said big word, there's one thing I will guarantee you. Your Hearts credentials wouldn't measure up to my knee cap.

 

Silly boy.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

But Dominic hadn’t tested positive then knowingly mix with other people

Sure he didn't. 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, JyTees said:

Right on cue, the whataboutery turbo button has been pressed. No condemnation. No moral compass. Just pure, unadulterated whataboutery.

 

Great timing Mags 👍🏻

She's a Clown who has to go. Come to think of it. Where was your outrage when Cummings wasn't giving a feck, or when Boris was shaking hands and ended up in icu. Exactly, you only turn up with your flute when the SNP do something daft. 

[Unknown user]

9 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

 

WWDO?

 

What Would Dominic Oo?

[doctor jambo]

23 hours ago, Fun Boaby said:

Arrange these words into a sentence for todays news headline 

 

SNP boy Derek Mackay in rent scandal

Never sure why male sex workers are “rent boys” - can you actually buy one outright?

[Governor Tarkin]

14 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I just don't think the English electorate should be deciding who governs Scotland.

 

We've been deciding each others governments one way or another for centuries, but that's not the point. I don't see a Scortish electorate and and English electorate, I see a British electorate. For me Scotland and England (and Wales) are distinct entities geographically because the map tells us so, but that's it. There's fundamentally no difference between the common person from each. Our problrms are their problems and their problems are our problems, if you insist on demarcating a them and us.

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

We've been deciding each others governments one way or another for centuries, but that's not the point. I don't see a Scortish electorate and and English electorate, I see a British electorate. For me Scotland and England (and Wales) are distinct entities geographically because the map tells us so, but that's it. There's fundamentally no difference between the common person from each. Our problrms are their problems and their problems are our problems, if you insist on demarcating a them and us.

 

Scotland's a very different country to England, here's just one example ignoring political trends, industries, resources, history, culture, etc. Scotland has a population density of 174.8/sq mi compared to England's 1118.9/sq mi. That's massive, in itself it illustrates how we face completely different challenges, different logistics to England, the physical structure of the 2 countries are different, with different plusses too.

 

But really this is what it comes down to, you're more into being British than I am. Fair enough, at the end of the day it's not you or I that needs persuaded, it's that few percent who are quietly listening and weighing things up. But a shite tory government cruelly bumbling it's way from shitfest to shitfest is looming large in the background of any independence debate. 

 

[Beni]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

WWDO?

 

What Would Dominic Oo?

 

Never noticed that.

I'm popping out for a drive to test my eyesight.

[Governor Tarkin]

30 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Scotland's a very different country to England, here's just one example ignoring political trends, industries, resources, history, culture, etc. Scotland has a population density of 174.8/sq mi compared to England's 1118.9/sq mi. That's massive, in itself it illustrates how we face completely different challenges, different logistics to England, the physical structure of the 2 countries are different, with different plusses too.

 

 

Every large political entity has regions which are very different. Should Bavaria break away from Lower Saxony, Should Provence be in the same country as Normandy? 

 

30 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

But really this is what it comes down to, you're more into being British than I am. Fair enough, at the end of the day it's not you or I that needs persuaded, it's that few percent who are quietly listening and weighing things up.

 

 

I'm not necessarily into being British, I'm just not fundamentally against it. I could be pesuaded otherwise if I was presented with a case that illustrated how Scottish independence was in the best interests of all the people of the United Kingdom as a whole. I try not to let ephemeral lines on maps, drawn and re-drawn over millenia by people with wildly different agendas, decide whats good for the common man on one side that's not good for the common man on the other.

 

30 minutes ago, Smithee said:

But a shite tory government cruelly bumbling it's way from shitfest to shitfest is looming large in the background of any independence debate. 

 

 

And here's the real villains of the piece. On that we surely agree.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Every large political entity has regions which are very different. Should Bavaria break away from Lower Saxony, Should Provence be in the same country as Normandy? 

 

I dont know and I'm not that arsed TBH, I know very little about them and have no personal interest. 

 

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

I'm not necessarily into being British, I'm just not fundamentally against it. I could be pesuaded otherwise if I was presented with a case that illustrated how Scottish independence was in the best interests of all the people of the United Kingdom as a whole. I try not to let ephemeral lines on maps, drawn and re-drawn over millenia by people with wildly different agendas, decide whats good for the common man on one side that's not good for the common man on the other.

 

Very noble, but I don't see why we should be denied a voice for the good of another nation's people. And again, that's the core - to me England are another country, to you they're part of the same country.

 

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

And here's the real villains of the piece. On that we surely agree.

 

The absolute ****ing nick, and it's only going in one direction. 

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Very noble, but I don't see why we should be denied a voice for the good of another nation's people. And again, that's the core - to me England are another country, to you they're part of the same country.

 

 

Maps are human constructs.

Humans are flawed.

Don't let them define you.

Nations only exist in the minds of the controlled, and are the instigator of strife and division the world over.

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Maps are human constructs.

Humans are flawed.

Don't let them define you.

Nations only exist in the minds of the controlled, and are the instigator of strife and division the world over.

Cool, but in the absence of global one state harmony I want my vote to mean something and I want people who give a **** about Scotland to run Scotland.

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Every large political entity has regions which are very different. Should Bavaria break away from Lower Saxony, Should Provence be in the same country as Normandy? 

 

 

I'm not necessarily into being British, I'm just not fundamentally against it. I could be pesuaded otherwise if I was presented with a case that illustrated how Scottish independence was in the best interests of all the people of the United Kingdom as a whole. I try not to let ephemeral lines on maps, drawn and re-drawn over millenia by people with wildly different agendas, decide whats good for the common man on one side that's not good for the common man on the other.

 

 

And here's the real villains of the piece. On that we surely agree.

My Bavarian friend would say they should, he is a Bavarian nationalist....

Most nationalist movements attempt a break out because they feel they would benefit financially from separatism.

catalonia, shetland, the perennial North/South Italy debate, bavaria ...

and so on and so forth.

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

10 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Ferrier has to go, a moron and a disgrace.

 

(Note, for the nuggets who  say it doesn't happen,  this^ was posted by an SNP voting, independence supporter)

Agreed, she should resign. What a fool. 

[Governor Tarkin]

8 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

My Bavarian friend would say they should, he is a Bavarian nationalist....

Most nationalist movements attempt a break out because they feel they would benefit financially from separatism.

catalonia, shetland, the perennial North/South Italy debate, bavaria ...

and so on and so forth.

 

 

 

I always find it bewildering that folk want to create a more just/equitable society by running away and pulling up the drawbridge behind them.

 

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Cool, but in the absence of global one state harmony I want my vote to mean something and I want people who give a **** about Scotland to run Scotland.

 

Isn't that what devolution is about?

 

And you don't need global one state harmony, that's pie in the sky and you slotted it in there to devalue my general point. What you do need is rid of the current brand of Tory.

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I always find it bewildering that folk want to create a more just/equitable society by running away and pulling up the drawbridge behind them.

 

 

Isn't that what devolution is about?

 

And you don't need global one state harmony, that's pie in the sky and you slotted it in there to devalue my general point. What you do need is rid of the current brand of Tory.

Tis the same old argument the world over...

we would be better off without them, as it is them dragging us down , because they are different to us.

 

Blame your own inadequacy on someone else, its easier than introspection.

 

Perhaps Scotland should have a spell of looking at what is not going right and looking for internal reasons why.

and any use of works like Tory/westminster/thatcher/ Edward Longshanks should not be used.

NO externalised excuse making.

What can WE do about obesity/ drug abuse/ premature death/ generational unemployment/ educational indifference

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I always find it bewildering that folk want to create a more just/equitable society by running away and pulling up the drawbridge behind them.

 

 

Isn't that what devolution is about?

 

And you don't need global one state harmony, that's pie in the sky and you slotted it in there to devalue my general point. What you do need is rid of the current brand of Tory.

Devolution or home rule should be the perfect solution but they have never ever wanted to even give us that.  It was an international law that forced them (I’ll try find the document) then they started moving maritime boundaries etc too days before the vote. 
Bringing government closer is surely better? I’ve even seen MP’s in the NE of England claiming the WM govt policies do zero for that area.

Do you remember the WM govt and others like RBS telling us that devolution was a terrible idea and would cause this that and the next thing similar to independence... I do. Didn’t seem to happen. Why did Ian Lang create GERS and he’s admitted was confuse and try kill the independence argument and the nationalists?  Why are they producing a bill that is riding over the devolution agreements now? They’ll have the right to do basically what they want and even charge us debt for things we have no control over? What happened to “The Vow” and Devo max? Why not offer us full fiscal autonomy and keep things like no borders, same military, currency etc etc. Why? We need constant fiscal transfers apparently too why aren’t they literally opening the door and showing us out? If it was to be this bad surely England would benefit with all our best people leaving too? They are in a win/win/win scenario here yet they fight tooth and nail to hold on whilst calling us cadgers..it’s a strange relationship. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Is it true the Murrells have hired a law firm to protect them from the mess they've made trying to kill of their political rival Salmond? 

[manaliveits105]

Mrs Murrell being questioned on whether the snp knew about Margaret earlier than made out - after being called a liar at Holyrood this week can the good Scottish people continue to believe her "LOOK !" answers 

will she survive recent events with the knifes already oot from Alex fans 

[Guest]

Sexual weirdo Derek Mackay must be cock-a-hoop at the timing of the Ferrier scandal.

 

 

[doctor jambo]

45 minutes ago, Fun Boaby said:

Sexual weirdo Derek Mackay must be cock-a-hoop at the timing of the Ferrier scandal.

 

 

 being gay is hardly a political draw back, and being a sexual weirdo is almost mandatory

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I always find it bewildering that folk want to create a more just/equitable society by running away and pulling up the drawbridge behind them.

 

 

Isn't that what devolution is about?

 

And you don't need global one state harmony, that's pie in the sky and you slotted it in there to devalue my general point. What you do need is rid of the current brand of Tory.

 

Devolution hasn't protected us from this shower of shite, its a half measure at best, we can decide how to spend our pocket money.

 

If we had any say in getting rid of the current brand of tory your point would be stronger, but all we can do is hope England decides it's time. Its a bullshit situation.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Devolution or home rule should be the perfect solution but they have never ever wanted to even give us that.  It was an international law that forced them (I’ll try find the document) then they started moving maritime boundaries etc too days before the vote. 
Bringing government closer is surely better? I’ve even seen MP’s in the NE of England claiming the WM govt policies do zero for that area.

Do you remember the WM govt and others like RBS telling us that devolution was a terrible idea and would cause this that and the next thing similar to independence... I do. Didn’t seem to happen. Why did Ian Lang create GERS and he’s admitted was confuse and try kill the independence argument and the nationalists?  Why are they producing a bill that is riding over the devolution agreements now? They’ll have the right to do basically what they want and even charge us debt for things we have no control over? What happened to “The Vow” and Devo max? Why not offer us full fiscal autonomy and keep things like no borders, same military, currency etc etc. Why? We need constant fiscal transfers apparently too why aren’t they literally opening the door and showing us out? If it was to be this bad surely England would benefit with all our best people leaving too? They are in a win/win/win scenario here yet they fight tooth and nail to hold on whilst calling us cadgers..it’s a strange relationship. 

 

All good questions, and ones that I'm asking too, but the bit in bold nails it. It's not just Jockland and the NE of England that feels let down and ignored, it's pretty much every region ouwith the SE.

Everybody knows that Scotland is good for England and that's why it hasn't been shown the door, but that's sort of my point. The union with England, Wales and NI has been beneficial for Scotland too. It doesn't have to be the zero sum game that some would do their utmost to convince you that it is. There doesn't have to be winners and losers.

41 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Devolution hasn't protected us from this shower of shite, its a half measure at best, we can decide how to spend our pocket money.

 

If we had any say in getting rid of the current brand of tory your point would be stronger, but all we can do is hope England decides it's time. Its a bullshit situation.

 

See, by using terms like pocket money you're devaluing the argument. That's two of my posts you've replied to with purile undertones. Mind in my first post where I said we could do with a serious debate.

 

I'll admit that it's a shitty situation and I don't have the answer. The Tories swung traditionally socialist English with a Brexit campaign which played on their basest nationalistic instincts. It was utterly insidious.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

All good questions, and ones that I'm asking too, but the bit in bold nails it. It's not just Jockland and the NE of England that feels let down and ignored, it's pretty much every region ouwith the SE.

Everybody knows that Scotland is good for England and that's why it hasn't been shown the door, but that's sort of my point. The union with England, Wales and NI has been beneficial for Scotland too. It doesn't have to be the zero sum game that some would do their utmost to convince you that it is. There doesn't have to be winners and losers.

 

See, by using terms like pocket money you're devaluing the argument. That's two of my posts you've replied to with purile undertones. Mind in my first post where I said we could do with a serious debate.

 

I'll admit that it's a shitty situation and I don't have the answer. The Tories swung traditionally socialist English with a Brexit campaign which played on their basest nationalistic instincts. It was utterly insidious.

It isn't puerile at all, it's demonstrative, allegorical, it shows how I see the situation and my contempt for it in one simple phrase.

 

It is a shitty situation but there is an answer, and it isn't hoping for the best from another country's electorate.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

It isn't puerile at all, it's demonstrative, allegorical, it shows how I see the situation and my contempt for it in one simple phrase.

 

It is a shitty situation but there is an answer, and it isn't hoping for the best from another country's electorate.

 

It can be demonstrative and allegorical and still be puerile. I guess it depends upon which level you want to operate. To be fair to you, most nationalist debates take place way below where they have any chance of being effective. The thrust of your position is clear though, it's us and them. It generally boils down to that.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It can be demonstrative and allegorical and still be puerile. I guess it depends upon which level you want to operate. To be fair to you, most nationalist debates take place way below where they have any chance of being effective. The thrust of your position is clear though, it's us and them. It generally boils down to that.

As always, I'm not trying to persuade you, I don't expect you to agree. But you've taken exception to a phrase and not addressed the point - we get to spend what Westminster says we get to spend and within the structure Westminster has set up.

If that's acceptable to you fair enough, I think it's a crock myself.

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

All good questions, and ones that I'm asking too, but the bit in bold nails it. It's not just Jockland and the NE of England that feels let down and ignored, it's pretty much every region ouwith the SE.

Everybody knows that Scotland is good for England and that's why it hasn't been shown the door, but that's sort of my point. The union with England, Wales and NI has been beneficial for Scotland too. It doesn't have to be the zero sum game that some would do their utmost to convince you that it is. There doesn't have to be winners and losers.

 

See, by using terms like pocket money you're devaluing the argument. That's two of my posts you've replied to with purile undertones. Mind in my first post where I said we could do with a serious debate.

 

I'll admit that it's a shitty situation and I don't have the answer. The Tories swung traditionally socialist English with a Brexit campaign which played on their basest nationalistic instincts. It was utterly insidious.

The U.K. isn’t a bad thing I don’t dislike it or the English or anyone else it’s not done me any harm. Times change though and so do countries needs. England and Scotland have different priorities, we need immigration and England doesnt imo and that’s how you’ve ended up with a brexit. Originally I was pro-brexit but after reading and realising what it meant I’ve completely flipped around. It’s by no means perfect but leaving it isn’t a great idea at all imo. I accept that people would say the same for leaving the union but compare the tone from the British government to both situations also. We leave the U.K. well we’re going to get plums, out the EU etc etc and yet we vote brexit to take back control and the EU is a big bad bully because it won’t give Britain free trade etc and everything it wants...a bit of disparity in those two outlooks possibly? it sums the British government up to me. Still delusions of grandeur. 
I don’t think independence is a silver bullet either but making decisions that genuinely affect people here can’t be a bad thing. Scotland has an abundance of resources there is no way on earth we would go to shit. Some bumps in the road? Of course but you’re getting them anyway it’s just a bunch of other people making the decisions about what ones you getting. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by jack D and coke