jack D and coke Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said: Once Covid is out the way, WM have no reasonable explanation for refusing it. The democratic will of the Scottish electorate is clear: let us decide. The more they refuse, the more Scottish people (yes, no, or maybe) will see it as our voice being ignored. I keep saying this. The way to grow support for indy is to keep ignoring us. We need to get the bag of chips back on our shoulders imo and the likes of Johnson/Truss/Patel telling us to pipe down is exactly what we need imo. Starmer too will absolutely bomb here with his stance. Tell us no. Know your place jock and all that. Barry😃 Edited December 14, 2021 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Vince Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 4 hours ago, jack D and coke said: By the end of covid I wouldn’t be surprised if James is married with bairns tbh. 😀😀😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 4 hours ago, jack D and coke said: By the end of covid I wouldn’t be surprised if James is married with bairns tbh. That’ll be that bloomin’ vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Alex Kintner said: Once Covid is out the way, WM have no reasonable explanation for refusing it. The democratic will of the Scottish electorate is clear: let us decide. The more they refuse, the more Scottish people (yes, no, or maybe) will see it as our voice being ignored. 3 hours ago, jack D and coke said: I keep saying this. The way to grow support for indy is to keep ignoring us. We need to get the bag of chips back on our shoulders imo and the likes of Johnson/Truss/Patel telling us to pipe down is exactly what we need imo. Starmer too will absolutely bomb here with his stance. Tell us no. Know your place jock and all that. Barry😃 Of course they'll say no. Assuming that they're ever asked. Separatism is a minority position. If you're right of course, then we'll see support for leaving the UK rise and consistently stay there. If that does happen and is settled at 60+%, they might agree to one. Until then, not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 6 hours ago, jack D and coke said: By the end of covid I wouldn’t be surprised if James is married with bairns tbh. 6 hours ago, jonesy said: FTFY (Sorry James!) " never be predictable...leave them guessing. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Alex Kintner said: Once Covid is out the way, WM have no reasonable explanation for refusing it. The democratic will of the Scottish electorate is clear: let us decide. The more they refuse, the more Scottish people (yes, no, or maybe) will see it as our voice being ignored. Why not ask for it now? Covid could be around for 2 years, 5 years or who knows how long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Why not ask for it now? Covid could be around for 2 years, 5 years or who knows how long. Because she (rightly) promised to focus on Covid first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) Been thinking and there is people who say they’d leave here if indy happened or whatever. You know what…**** you people! I’d never leave this place regardless! Everything and everyone I love is here… It appeared on my Facebook memories tonight about when I was down under 8 years ago. I went after a breakup and stayed with a good pal for a few months and I’ve never been so homesick. Im glad I went tho. Melbourne was a cracking place and great to see my mate and Brisbane and Sydney etc n I came home in the January and sitting in Manchester airport train station in the pissin rain and cold I just sat and thought thank god im home. I cried when I crossed the border too im not ashamed to say. I think I’m william wallace is what I’m saying tbh🏴 Edited December 16, 2021 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 14/12/2021 at 13:49, Alex Kintner said: Once Covid is out the way, WM have no reasonable explanation for refusing it. The democratic will of the Scottish electorate is clear: let us decide. The more they refuse, the more Scottish people (yes, no, or maybe) will see it as our voice being ignored. The democratic will of less than a third of the electorate is indeed clear it’s the 66% plus that’s the problem for the separatists and why TVs Nicola is happy to stick and further her career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 4 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: The democratic will of less than a third of the electorate is indeed clear it’s the 66% plus that’s the problem for the separatists and why TVs Nicola is happy to stick and further her career 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: The democratic will of less than a third of the electorate is indeed clear it’s the 66% plus that’s the problem for the separatists and why TVs Nicola is happy to stick and further her career I'd guess that within your 66% there is a sizable proportion of fence sitters, using your figures it could potentially be 3 blocks of 33% Not sure where your %'s come from though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: I'd guess that within your 66% there is a sizable proportion of fence sitters, using your figures it could potentially be 3 blocks of 33% Not sure where your %'s come from though... To simplify it further then I’d say the country is split down the middle. No one wins in such a tight referendum. Small swing either way the majority are unhappy. Easy for me to say I know but it is a nonsense to make such a change with those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 only a third of the electorate voted snp last time and whilst some of the fence sitters may fall on have an indy ref side some of the snp voters are plastic nationalists and might not want one - you would only know the will of the Scottish people if you had a vote on whether to have an indy ref - and even then would folk want one to vote yes or want one to put it to bed once and for all and vote NAW to use its the will of the Scottish people at present is absolute nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Dazo said: To simplify it further then I’d say the country is split down the middle. No one wins in such a tight referendum. Small swing either way the majority are unhappy. Easy for me to say I know but it is a nonsense to make such a change with those numbers. Seemed OK to do so with Brexit (off topic I know). Think the Independence movement, not SNP, started at a much lower base of support in the polls in the run up to the last referendum. 1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said: only a third of the electorate voted snp last time and whilst some of the fence sitters may fall on have an indy ref side some of the snp voters are plastic nationalists and might not want one - you would only know the will of the Scottish people if you had a vote on whether to have an indy ref - and even then would folk want one to vote yes or want one to put it to bed once and for all and vote NAW to use its the will of the Scottish people at present is absolute nonsense 1/3 voted SNP, shrugs shoulders, the SNP is not the Independence movement. As alluded to in my off topic response above, a very slim majority plunged us into the omnishambles that is Brexit, and the polls are fluctuating with pro Independence starting from a higher approval rating than last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 14/12/2021 at 13:25, Alex Kintner said: Same as last time 👍🏻 Absolutely no chance. SNP mumping about money, someone should be auditing their accounts to make sure they passed on all the money they received from UK Government during the pandemic. Something tells me that they haven't. Allocating £300+m towards another referendum campaign at this point in time is nothing short of reckless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: The democratic will of less than a third of the electorate is indeed clear it’s the 66% plus that’s the problem for the separatists and why TVs Nicola is happy to stick and further her career This is the same for the uk. You wonder why they don’t want PR down there? 60% of people in England always reject the tories yet we get them more often than not. It’s even more here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 minute ago, PapaShango said: Absolutely no chance. SNP mumping about money, someone should be auditing their accounts to make sure they passed on all the money they received from UK Government during the pandemic. Something tells me that they haven't. Allocating £300+m towards another referendum campaign at this point in time is nothing short of reckless. The last GE cost about £100m all in. Where are you getting £300m from? A smash the snp FB page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 minute ago, jack D and coke said: The last GE cost about £100m all in. Where are you getting £300m from? A smash the snp FB page? The £300m is from the SNP budget last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Just now, PapaShango said: The £300m is from the SNP budget last week. Ok fair enough I haven’t seen that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Seemed OK to do so with Brexit (off topic I know). Think the Independence movement, not SNP, started at a much lower base of support in the polls in the run up to the last referendum. Think it’s always okay if you are on the winning side. I was last time and still think it’s wrong but as I said, easy for me to say now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Professor Blyth continued: "Instead of which we've got, 'Denmark is awesome. We should be like Denmark. If we were independent, we would be Denmark'. "No, you wouldn't be Denmark. Denmark took 600 years to become Denmark. Nicola Sturgeon humiliated: First Minister warned Scottish independence 'will hurt a lot' (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: only a third of the electorate voted snp last time and whilst some of the fence sitters may fall on have an indy ref side some of the snp voters are plastic nationalists and might not want one - you would only know the will of the Scottish people if you had a vote on whether to have an indy ref - and even then would folk want one to vote yes or want one to put it to bed once and for all and vote NAW to use its the will of the Scottish people at present is absolute nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Professor Blyth continued: "Instead of which we've got, 'Denmark is awesome. We should be like Denmark. If we were independent, we would be Denmark'. "No, you wouldn't be Denmark. Denmark took 600 years to become Denmark. Nicola Sturgeon humiliated: First Minister warned Scottish independence 'will hurt a lot' (msn.com) To be fair he's only repeating arguments in the Daily Express that have been made on here a number of times before. I think you'll find that if you put a kilt on it and shout freedom it'll all be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: mmm, this presumably only counts those that voted. To count everyone that didn't for the other side does seem a tad unfair, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: To be fair he's only repeating arguments in the Daily Express that have been made on here a number of times before. I think you'll find that if you put a kilt on it and shout freedom it'll all be fine. I only wear my kilt for special doos now. No thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: mmm, this presumably only counts those that voted. To count everyone that didn't for the other side does seem a tad unfair, no? Not really if people are arguing that its " the will of the people" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: She doesn't want any of the 5m ex-pats included. School weans, lags and refugees all tickety boo for ref2 mind. State of that coupon btw, 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 33 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Professor Blyth continued: "Instead of which we've got, 'Denmark is awesome. We should be like Denmark. If we were independent, we would be Denmark'. "No, you wouldn't be Denmark. Denmark took 600 years to become Denmark. Nicola Sturgeon humiliated: First Minister warned Scottish independence 'will hurt a lot' (msn.com) Have you given up the pretence of being up for independence then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, Smithee said: Have you given up the pretence of being up for independence then? Unfortunately veering more and more towards no when I think of it objectively and not emotionally now. Sorry . However as we know apparently I’m the u turn king so I’ll prob be yes by 2030 when we have the vote 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Unfortunately veering more and more towards no when I think of it objectively and not emotionally now. Sorry . However as we know apparently I’m the u turn king so I’ll prob be yes by 2030 when we have the vote 😂 No apologies needed. Why do you think it's good that Scotland has England's electorate decide our government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Smithee said: No apologies needed. Why do you think it's good that Scotland has England's electorate decide our government? I don’t think it’s good ! We should govern ourselves but the problem is getting there . Is it worth the pain , which may be , sorry will be for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, Smithee said: No apologies needed. Why do you think it's good that Scotland has England's electorate decide our government? And when Labour is elected Scotland's electorate decides for England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: And when Labour is elected Scotland's electorate decides for England. Every single person in Scotland could vote Labour and we could get a Tory govt. it doesn’t work in reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Just now, jack D and coke said: Every single person in Scotland could vote Labour and we could get a Tory govt. it doesn’t work in reverse. No but how many Labour governments would England have had without the Scottish vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: No but how many Labour governments would England have had without the Scottish vote? None I don’t think. England decides if they want a Labour govt. if enough of them vote for any party that’s the govt. Its purely numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: None I don’t think. England decides if they want a Labour govt. if enough of them vote for any party that’s the govt. Its purely numbers. Yes but if you want to break it down on nationalistic lines England have on several occasions not got the government they voted for. Until recently you could say the same about the North of England as with Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Hmfc1965 said: Yes but if you want to break it down on nationalistic lines England have on several occasions not got the government they voted for. Until recently you could say the same about the North of England as with Scotland. The North of England is free to start an independence movement. Do you think Scotland will ever get a government it votes for again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: Yes but if you want to break it down on nationalistic lines England have on several occasions not got the government they voted for. Until recently you could say the same about the North of England as with Scotland. As smithee says the north could start an indy movement. They should imo. They’ve been ignored for decades too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: Yes but if you want to break it down on nationalistic lines England have on several occasions not got the government they voted for. I had to go back to 1974 to find an example, every election in the near half century since has been decided by England's electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Smithee said: The North of England is free to start an independence movement. Do you think Scotland will ever get a government it votes for again? Pre independence, not on current patterns. I doubt there's massive SNP support in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, Smithee said: The North of England is free to start an independence movement. Do you think Scotland will ever get a government it votes for again? Scotland does not vote for a Government. The UK votes for a Government in UK elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JamesM48 said: Scotland does not vote for a Government. The UK votes for a Government in UK elections. And Scotland gets what England wants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 There is a democratic surplus in Scotland. We have two governments and are over represented at Westminster. Is that a good thing? That's another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 hours ago, JackLadd said: She doesn't want any of the 5m ex-pats included. School weans, lags and refugees all tickety boo for ref2 mind. State of that coupon btw, 😄 If you don't live in Scotland why would you require a vote in Scotland. I'm not a member at Muirfield golf club, therefore I don't think I should have a vote on their internal club matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, pablo said: There is a democratic surplus in Scotland. We have two governments and are over represented at Westminster. Is that a good thing? That's another matter. Should there ever be another referendumb and it’s Naw again that should be a mandate to shut Holyrood and save millions for more important purposes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, Smithee said: And Scotland gets what England wants NO Scotland gets wants the whole of UK wants. Its a UK vote not a 4 nations vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Should there ever be another referendumb and it’s Naw again that should be a mandate to shut Holyrood and save millions for more important purposes or certainly give the devolved power of Health back to the UK. Its been used as a political football during covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: NO Scotland gets wants the whole of UK wants. Its a UK vote not a 4 nations vote. Scotland gets what England wants. You can get as pedantic as you want but I can prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, Smithee said: Scotland gets what England wants. You can get as pedantic as you want but I can prove it. But then if your being pedantic the majority in Scotland didnt vote SNP so why should they get an SNP govt ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 The Parliament of the United Kingdom is made up of 650 constituencies. If a party wins a parliamentary majority they can form a government, in the event of a hung parliament parties can attempt to form a government through alliance. Only Separatists who frame everything through a Nationalist lens have a problem with this. The Majority who do not see everything as them and us, do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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