The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Savage Vince]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

 No one in their right mind believes them. 

 

Agreed. 👍

 

Although I'm not sure why you're having a pop at Enzo for believing them. 😃

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Lovely. I see how this works with you:

• You make claims about literally any topic
• People give you facts that prove what you said was wrong.
• You reply by ignoring the facts and instead deflecting with some other half-baked claim.

That's his posting MO in a nutshell. 

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Lovely. I see how this works with you:

• You make claims about class sizes, crime, NHS, etc. to paint the Scottish Government in a poor light as if there's a huge crisis where none exists. 
• I give you some facts that prove what you said was wrong.
• You reply by ignoring the facts and instead deflecting with some other half-baked claim.

The tax raised in Scotland (as with every other area of the UK outside London) does not include the vast majority of Corporation Tax...because the vast majority of FTSE and other large companies declare their taxes in London. That is why every region of the UK apart from London and the south west shows a large deficit (e.g using the GERS calculations). This is why Yorkshire & Teeside, for example, have a significantly higher deficit than Scotland.

 

The Barnett Formula is simply a way to calculate the proportion of public spending that should be paid by each of the devolved nations after England has it's cut and so-called UK expenditure is deducted. It is calculated based on population size and not as some sort of freebie to Scotland. In other words, Barnett is just a way to make sure every UK nation pays it's share.

 

Scotland then has to pay a share of defence (£42.2 billion), the Royal Family (£67 million) the renovation of Westminster Palace (£4 billion), the Heathrow expansion (£61 billion by 2050) and HS2 (England only project; over £100 billion). We also have to pay a share of the UK debt interest, which over the past 30 years has Scotland has had to pay as much as £126b.

 

So, to answer your question, we will cut Trident, HS2, Westminster Palace, Heathrow....and any other UK vanity projects or empire legacy costs. pretty much that's it. Because we will start raising our own corporation taxes and by rejoining the EU we will qualify for financial support. We will take back control of our coastline, meaning the multi-£billion wind farm rights that currently go to the Crown Estate will come to us. And...I haven't even mentioned oil.

 

Maybe you could return the courtesy by answering my question.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m gonna go all James here…

Well said En eh sub4tiddler😃

Only a brain dead unionist guffy would believe GERS. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m gonna go all James here…

Well said En eh sub4tiddler😃

Only a brain dead unionist guffy would believe GERS. 

“ so all out James “ is a verb ?? What does it mean ? 😯😯

[Roxy Hearts]

43 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

Agreed. 👍

 

Although I'm not sure why you're having a pop at Enzo for believing them. 😃

🤣👍

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

“ so all out James “ is a verb ?? What does it mean ? 😯😯

Should I have said all in?

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Lovely. I see how this works with you:

• You make claims about class sizes, crime, NHS, etc. to paint the Scottish Government in a poor light as if there's a huge crisis where none exists. 
• I give you some facts that prove what you said was wrong.
• You reply by ignoring the facts and instead deflecting with some other half-baked claim.

The tax raised in Scotland (as with every other area of the UK outside London) does not include the vast majority of Corporation Tax...because the vast majority of FTSE and other large companies declare their taxes in London. That is why every region of the UK apart from London and the south west shows a large deficit (e.g using the GERS calculations). This is why Yorkshire & Teeside, for example, have a significantly higher deficit than Scotland.

 

The Barnett Formula is simply a way to calculate the proportion of public spending that should be paid by each of the devolved nations after England has it's cut and so-called UK expenditure is deducted. It is calculated based on population size and not as some sort of freebie to Scotland. In other words, Barnett is just a way to make sure every UK nation pays it's share.

 

Scotland then has to pay a share of defence (£42.2 billion), the Royal Family (£67 million) the renovation of Westminster Palace (£4 billion), the Heathrow expansion (£61 billion by 2050) and HS2 (England only project; over £100 billion). We also have to pay a share of the UK debt interest, which over the past 30 years has Scotland has had to pay as much as £126b.

 

So, to answer your question, we will cut Trident, HS2, Westminster Palace, Heathrow....and any other UK vanity projects or empire legacy costs. pretty much that's it. Because we will start raising our own corporation taxes and by rejoining the EU we will qualify for financial support. We will take back control of our coastline, meaning the multi-£billion wind farm rights that currently go to the Crown Estate will come to us. And...I haven't even mentioned oil.

 

Maybe you could return the courtesy by answering my question.

 

 

 

 

 

What absolute garbage. Arrant nonsense.

The Royal Family bring in more money through tourism than any costs we incur, as taxpayers etc. Balmoral,  for example, is owned by the Queen and feck all for taxpayers to worry about.

 

The "figures" you quote are banal garbage. "Investment" in the NHS - and I've already told you where that money comes from - is irrelevant. 

Outcomes are what patients care about and the NHS in Scotland is in a shambolic state.

 

I can assure you that corporation tax raised by Scottish companies would barely get you a good nighr out and they ARE included in the £66m.

 

Class sizes - SNP target from 2007 STILL not met.

Crime - see the thread about Sturgeon's Feral Juvenile Army attacking the Fire Brigade, and the post from a serving police officer. That will tell you all you need to know about official Scot Gov crime "statistics".

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Anyone got any answers to the unanswered fiscal and monetary questions from 2014?

 

Was there not a Growth Commission report due out a few years ago?  Has it been "quietly removed"?

 

Any ideas about the 12-15bn fiscal gap? Currency perhaps? Any word on the Central Bank?

Defence? Would we protect the country for less than the meagre £3bn contribution we make as part of the UK?

 

How about the border with England and the affect on our biggest market accounting for 67% of our exports?

How would border delays affect travel to England and food supplies coming North?

 

Anyone?

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What absolute garbage. Arrant nonsense.

The Royal Family bring in more money through tourism than any costs we incur, as taxpayers etc. Balmoral,  for example, is owned by the Queen and feck all for taxpayers to worry about.

 

The "figures" you quote are banal garbage. "Investment" in the NHS - and I've already told you where that money comes from - is irrelevant. 

Outcomes are what patients care about and the NHS in Scotland is in a shambolic state.

 

I can assure you that corporation tax raised by Scottish companies would barely get you a good nighr out and they ARE included in the £66m.

 

Class sizes - SNP target from 2007 STILL not met.

Crime - see the thread about Sturgeon's Feral Juvenile Army attacking the Fire Brigade, and the post from a serving police officer. That will tell you all you need to know about official Scot Gov crime "statistics".

 

Scotland's not without it's problems bud! Governments can't be responsible for everything. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Well said Konrad. 
Great post mate. 
☺️

Edited September 29, 2021 by jack D and coke

[Savage Vince]

3 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

I see the Finance Minister, Wee Free, anti Choice activist, homophobe, supporter of Missionary work and next leader of the SNP has Covid.

 

I hope its not serious in spite of all of the above.

 

 

 

You don't really though, do you. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

42 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Should I have said all in?

😎😅

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Anyone got any answers to the unanswered fiscal and monetary questions from 2014?

 

Was there not a Growth Commission report due out a few years ago?  Has it been "quietly removed"?

 

Any ideas about the 12-15bn fiscal gap? Currency perhaps? Any word on the Central Bank?

Defence? Would we protect the country for less than the meagre £3bn contribution we make as part of the UK?

 

How about the border with England and the affect on our biggest market accounting for 67% of our exports?

How would border delays affect travel to England and food supplies coming North?

 

Anyone?

 

 

Ask the SNP, the Scottish Government civil servants, Richard Murphy, Westminster(when they grow up). Make enquiries yourself. Plenty negotiations to be had. Scotland doesn't want a border, what's wrong with a CTA. Our union of equals isn't very equal is it? Why do unionists want to put up barriers instead of being friends?

 

England will manage fine without us. Don't know why they're worried as we don't have anything according to you. 

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Ask the SNP, the Scottish Government civil servants, Richard Murphy, Westminster(when they grow up). Make enquiries yourself. Plenty negotiations to be had. Scotland doesn't want a border, what's wrong with a CTA. Our union of equals isn't very equal is it? Why do unionists want to put up barriers instead of being friends?

 

England will manage fine without us. Don't know why they're worried as we don't have anything according to you. 

England will even likely GAIN an Enzo in the event of Indy!!! 
How lucky are those mofos?!? 
Our loss their gain I suppose 🤷🏽‍♂️😭

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Ask the SNP, the Scottish Government civil servants, Richard Murphy, Westminster(when they grow up). Make enquiries yourself. Plenty negotiations to be had. Scotland doesn't want a border, what's wrong with a CTA. Our union of equals isn't very equal is it? Why do unionists want to put up barriers instead of being friends?

 

England will manage fine without us. Don't know why they're worried as we don't have anything according to you. 

No disrespect mate, but how can you engage on an intellctual level when you don't understand the basics,

The border would be insisted upon by the EU, not England. Neither the UK nor the Republic of Ireland wanted a border after Brexit but the protectionist, intransigent EU insisted.  To protect their single market cartel. THEY will insist on a border FFS. Let's get real.

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well said Konrad. 
Great post mate. 
☺️

Yes, the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears during a university debating society gathering. Well done Konnie. Cerebral posting ...right along SNP lines.

[Roxy Hearts]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No disrespect mate, but how can you engage on an intellctual level when you don't understand the basics,

The border would be insisted upon by the EU, not England. Neither the UK nor the Republic of Ireland wanted a border after Brexit but the protectionist, intransigent EU insisted.  To protect their single market cartel. THEY will insist on a border FFS. Let's get real.

I'm not trying to engage at an intellectual level bud and neither are you it would appear. You think you have all the answers but most of it's conjecture. There will be negotiations! Who said we'd be in the EU? Once again negotiations whether it's finance, borders or whatever scares you. You mustn't think much of our English friends if you don't think we can reach agreements.

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I'm no longer engaging with idiots.

PS I already asked you about the GERS data (HS2) - which you ignored, 

so don't expect me to be doing anything.

PPS I don't know what a "Nat" is but I don't support the SNP. 

 

Bye. 

A wise decision, no amount of facts or proof will ever convince around 30% of the population. It’s the 10-15% that are open minded that we need to talk with.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

A wise decision, no amount of facts or proof will ever convince around 30% of the population. It’s the 10-15% that are open minded that we need to talk with.

That's it. The intrenched are gone! Enzo and Mars Plastic being 2.

[jack D and coke]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears during a university debating society gathering. Well done Konnie. Cerebral posting ...right along SNP lines.

I’m older and have long since stopped putting my fingers in my ears and thinking I know it all man. 
Mibbe consider it yourself sometime😜

[Roxy Hearts]

29 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

England will even likely GAIN an Enzo in the event of Indy!!! 
How lucky are those mofos?!? 
Our loss their gain I suppose 🤷🏽‍♂️😭

He could be the Chancellor or an MP. Has all the credentials! 😉

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

That's it. The intrenched are gone! Enzo and Mars Plastic being 2.

Thank feck for that then. You can go back and let Nicola know at the next group think "brain (dead) storming session ".

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What absolute garbage. Arrant nonsense.

The Royal Family bring in more money through tourism than any costs we incur, as taxpayers etc. Balmoral,  for example, is owned by the Queen and feck all for taxpayers to worry about.

 

The "figures" you quote are banal garbage. "Investment" in the NHS - and I've already told you where that money comes from - is irrelevant. 

Outcomes are what patients care about and the NHS in Scotland is in a shambolic state.

 

I can assure you that corporation tax raised by Scottish companies would barely get you a good nighr out and they ARE included in the £66m.

 

Class sizes - SNP target from 2007 STILL not met.

Crime - see the thread about Sturgeon's Feral Juvenile Army attacking the Fire Brigade, and the post from a serving police officer. That will tell you all you need to know about official Scot Gov crime "statistics".

 

Is corporation tax devolved in Scotland? 

[Roxy Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Thank feck for that then. You can go back and let Nicola know at the next group think "brain (dead) storming session ".

🤣. That's more like it. I don't take offence at the banter. We believe in different things. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

🤣. That's more like it. I don't take offence at the banter. We believe in different things. 

Good man, Roxy👍

[Konrad von Carstein]

39 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears during a university debating society gathering. Well done Konnie. Cerebral posting ...right along SNP lines.

Lighten up ya donut

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Lighten up ya donut

🕺How's that?🤣

[XB52]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I'm no longer engaging with idiots.

PS I already asked you about the GERS data (HS2) - which you ignored, 

so don't expect me to be doing anything.

PPS I don't know what a "Nat" is but I don't support the SNP. 

 

Bye. 

Finally you have come to enlightenment, welcome. The guy hasn't a clue and will totally ignore when he is called out for his bullshit. He just goes on to another argument until he is ripped to bits and so on and so on. Ignore function is your friend 

[Pasquale for King]

40 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

That's it. The intrenched are gone! Enzo and Mars Plastic being 2.

Ignore is a useful function. 

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Ignore is a useful function. 

It's fun for me. 👍

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

It's fun for me. 👍

I’ve had the same conversation with so many off them I can’t do it anymore. 

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's fun for me. 👍

In my opinion Enzo gives as good as he gets. He does make some valid points despite how much I want to disagree with him. 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

13 years delay into an enquiry about historic child abuse in Scotland ! Shameful . How are the SNP gonna spin that one ? 

And this fits into the current debate how ? 

[NANOJAMBO]

16 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

In my opinion Enzo gives as good as he gets. He does make some valid points despite how much I want to disagree with him. 

 He calls out people on his terms , ignores questions put to him on his own arguments ,  blatantly lies and then pretends it never happened.  I've no problem discussing contra opinions but the guy is  an ignoramus and a hysterical liar. 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What absolute garbage. Arrant nonsense.

The Royal Family bring in more money through tourism than any costs we incur, as taxpayers etc. Balmoral,  for example, is owned by the Queen and feck all for taxpayers to worry about.

 

The "figures" you quote are banal garbage. "Investment" in the NHS - and I've already told you where that money comes from - is irrelevant. 

Outcomes are what patients care about and the NHS in Scotland is in a shambolic state.

 

I can assure you that corporation tax raised by Scottish companies would barely get you a good nighr out and they ARE included in the £66m.

 

Class sizes - SNP target from 2007 STILL not met.

Crime - see the thread about Sturgeon's Feral Juvenile Army attacking the Fire Brigade, and the post from a serving police officer. That will tell you all you need to know about official Scot Gov crime "statistics".

 

 

 

The tax raised in Scotland is between £62 billion and £67 billion. BILLION not million.

 

Scottish companies headquartered in London or elsewhere do not pay Corporation tax in this country.

 

You have absolutely no idea how much money the Royal family brings in through tourism do you?

 

You just make sh!t up and get all outraged, like a bitter primate throwing it's fetid mess at the wall.

 

I'm out. You can clean up your own cage.

 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

 

The tax raised in Scotland is between £62 billion and £67 billion. BILLION not million.

 

Scottish companies headquartered in London or elsewhere do not pay Corporation tax in this country.

 

You have absolutely no idea how much money the Royal family brings in through tourism do you?

 

You just make sh!t up and get all outraged, like a bitter primate throwing it's fetid mess at the wall.

 

I'm out. You can clean up your own cage.

 

 

 

I know it's between 62 and 67billion. I quoted the figures to YOU!

The money spent last year in Scotland was £99 BILLION not MILLION. That was exceptional due to furlough but the previous year was £82 billion. 

 

The difference between these figures is called the deficit. Each year's deficit adds to the national debt.

At the moment,  the UK covers the deficits/debit but upon independence,  Scotland would be responsible for them, including debt interest.

 

Of course companies pay corporation tax based on where their HQ is, that's why they decide wisely.  If it's HQ is in London it is NOT a Scottish company. That's why I, and many others, moved bank accounts away from a Scottish registered bank, prior to Indy 2014.

 

 

The main divergence between Scotland and rUK is not on the tax raised side of the ledger but on the spending side.

 

Again, I'll ask the question; which area of spending would Scotland cut, in the event of Independence, in order to reduce the deficit?? A deficit, incidentally,  that is 3 times that of England. 

 

[Unknown user]

Ah the ragin tartan Tory, up early for a right good seethe, on holiday too. 

 

Funny how he's gone from never trusting government figures, they're liars, to these figures are as accurate as it's possible to be.

 

It's also funny how many Tory voters like to tell us how the people of Scotland think.

Aye, cos you'd know eh?

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

And this fits into the current debate how ? 

 

I thought it was a general debate on all matters about the SNP and not just one aspect of their poor governance. 

[The Mighty Thor]

In related news

 

Keir Starmer announces that Gordon Brown will lead a commission to settle the issue of the Union.

 

He should make a vow or something.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

And this fits into the current debate how ? 

Evidences their gross incompetence yet again. 

[Des Lynam]

40 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In related news

 

Keir Starmer announces that Gordon Brown will lead a commission to settle the issue of the Union.

 

He should make a vow or something.

 

I would just keep shouting Gold and Lord Turner at that turd. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Des Lynam

[Governor Tarkin]

9 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

You think you have all the answers but most of it's conjecture. 

 

A bit like nationalists, then. 🤷‍♂️

[Des Lynam]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I know it's between 62 and 67billion. I quoted the figures to YOU!

The money spent last year in Scotland was £99 BILLION not MILLION. That was exceptional due to furlough but the previous year was £82 billion. 

 

The difference between these figures is called the deficit. Each year's deficit adds to the national debt.

At the moment,  the UK covers the deficits/debit but upon independence,  Scotland would be responsible for them, including debt interest.

 

Of course companies pay corporation tax based on where their HQ is, that's why they decide wisely.  If it's HQ is in London it is NOT a Scottish company. That's why I, and many others, moved bank accounts away from a Scottish registered bank, prior to Indy 2014.

 

 

The main divergence between Scotland and rUK is not on the tax raised side of the ledger but on the spending side.

 

Again, I'll ask the question; which area of spending would Scotland cut, in the event of Independence, in order to reduce the deficit?? A deficit, incidentally,  that is 3 times that of England. 

 

Now now Enzo let’s play fair. You are trying to demonise an Independent Scotland that would need to raise taxes or cut public spending at a time when a Conservative government have just raised taxes. This of course was done under the guise to save the NHS and social care. And they think we’re that naive. They promised the UK unshackled from Europe would be open for business with lower corporation taxes then raised it from 19% to 25% from 2023. 
 

Yes Scotland would need to raise and cut but we would be mirroring the UK government and most governments around the world. You might retort with but but the deficit is 22% whilst completely ignoring the last 18 months. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Des Lynam said:

Now now Enzo let’s play fair. You are trying to demonise an Independent Scotland that would need to raise taxes or cut public spending at a time when a Conservative government have just raised taxes. This of course was done under the guise to save the NHS and social care. And they think we’re that naive. They promised the UK unshackled from Europe would be open for business with lower corporation taxes then raised it from 19% to 25% from 2023. 
 

Yes Scotland would need to raise and cut but we would be mirroring the UK government and most governments around the world. You might retort with but but the deficit is 22% whilst completely ignoring the last 18 months. 

Well said. 
Great post. 
☺️

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Now now Enzo let’s play fair. You are trying to demonise an Independent Scotland that would need to raise taxes or cut public spending at a time when a Conservative government have just raised taxes. This of course was done under the guise to save the NHS and social care. And they think we’re that naive. They promised the UK unshackled from Europe would be open for business with lower corporation taxes then raised it from 19% to 25% from 2023. 
 

Yes Scotland would need to raise and cut but we would be mirroring the UK government and most governments around the world. You might retort with but but the deficit is 22% whilst completely ignoring the last 18 months. 

I think that’s far. Imo though an independent Scotland would be a higher taxed country than England. Which is fine if the country really benefits from that. I don’t believe we will. 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

4 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I know it's between 62 and 67billion. I quoted the figures to YOU!

The money spent last year in Scotland was £99 BILLION not MILLION. That was exceptional due to furlough but the previous year was £82 billion. 

 

The difference between these figures is called the deficit. Each year's deficit adds to the national debt.

At the moment,  the UK covers the deficits/debit but upon independence,  Scotland would be responsible for them, including debt interest.

 

Of course companies pay corporation tax based on where their HQ is, that's why they decide wisely.  If it's HQ is in London it is NOT a Scottish company. That's why I, and many others, moved bank accounts away from a Scottish registered bank, prior to Indy 2014.

 

 

The main divergence between Scotland and rUK is not on the tax raised side of the ledger but on the spending side.

 

Again, I'll ask the question; which area of spending would Scotland cut, in the event of Independence, in order to reduce the deficit?? A deficit, incidentally,  that is 3 times that of England. 

 

…just when I thought I was out…

 

The GERS deficit figures are distorted because Scotland has to pay a share of UK expenditure and debt interest that it has no control over (and in the cases I mentioned above, no benefit from). 
 

To base your “what ya gonna cut? what ya gonna cut?” mantra on the GERS deficit ignores the fact that, as a highly developed modern country, Scotland will be free to make it’s own spending decisions and raise it’s own finance. Unless you think Scots are complete morons, we will manage our own finances appropriately.

 

STOP GASLIGHTING SCOTLAND!

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

A bit like nationalists, then. 🤷‍♂️

I don't need reassuring that Scotland can become a successful independent country once again. Of course there's conjecture but there's positives and negatives. 

I think it's important that people living here should be able to vote for the government it wants and vote them out! 

 

The difficulties are created by others when it doesn't have to be that way. Nobody has ever been able to articulate why Westminster needs Scotland if we're a drain on their resources. That fact alone raises questions.

[Roxy Hearts]

57 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I think that’s far. Imo though an independent Scotland would be a higher taxed country than England. Which is fine if the country really benefits from that. I don’t believe we will. 

More conjecture and as usual, negative!

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

More conjecture and as usual, negative!

Of course it’s conjecture, the in my opinion comment was the giveaway. Untwist the panties you don’t have to put every fire out.