The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Dazo]

 

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

OUR govt should be held accountable for their multitude of failings. They're not, because half of the Scottish  people don't care, or even realise, how badly we are governed. 

Are you actually aware that there is a Scottish government?? If so, then feel free to hold them to account.

 

No chance that will happen Enzo.  Complete unaccountability even after years of incompetence. Free pass to run the country into the ground because they are only major party to support their single issue. How these people expect a bunch of politicians who have done nothing but get away with bad governance to be able to turn that around. If the snp were being held to account and they actually made Scotland a better place during their time independence would be done and dusted. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

To answer by your earlier question, tbh I think it's already been answered by someone else.

 

We're part of the UK and rejected the chance to change that. That's why we have a Westminster govt, regardless of what colour rosette they wear.

 

The Scottish electorate choose this situation. Not the English, Welsh or Norn Irish. 

 

Yeah, I know. 

 

And I'm saying what a ridiculous situation we're in and what a shit decision that was.

 

Thankfully, this isn't some bizzaro world where you have one single vote and that's it for eternity.

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah, I know. 

 

And I'm saying what a ridiculous situation we're in and what a shit decision that was.

 

Thankfully, this isn't some bizzaro world where you have one single vote and that's it for eternity.

 

Agreed, but your ire should be aimed at the current Scottish government and the Scottish electorate.

 

The choice was given to extract ourselves from the shit situation, and we opted not to. I agree it isn't it for eternity but the Scottish electorate need to demonstrate that it's what they want, right now the polls don't definitively back that up. It's up to the SNP to change that, only they can do it. You could argue Westminster have more than done their part with the provision of Brexit and Boris as PM. If the Scottish electorate still needed convincing then I do start to lose hope for independence ever being delivered. If not now, when?

Edited September 28, 2021 by Taffin

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

No chance that will happen Enzo.  Complete unaccountability even after years of incompetence. Free pass to run the country into the ground because they are only major party to support their single issue. How these people expect a bunch of politicians who have done nothing but get away with bad governance to be able to turn that around. If the snp were being held to account and they actually made Scotland a better place during their time independence would be done and dusted. 

 

Who do you suggest someone vote for if they want to protest against the SNP?

The tories? The labour party you lot savage? The ineffectual libdems?

[Roxy Hearts]

12 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

To answer by your earlier question, tbh I think it's already been answered by someone else.

 

We're part of the UK and rejected the chance to change that. That's why we have a Westminster govt, regardless of what colour rosette they wear.

 

The Scottish electorate choose this situation. Not the English, Welsh or Norn Irish. 

English, Welsh and Northern Irish people reside in Scotland with a vote. Thousands of them probably voted against our independence. Scaremongering the old folk and the a little propaganda like out of the EU etc also helped. I can understand people wish to remain part of the UK but what gets me is some stating we're uniquely incapable of running our own affairs. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Agreed, but your ire should be aimed at the current Scottish government and the Scottish electorate.

 

The choice was given to extract ourselves from the shit situation, and we opted not to. I agree it isn't it for eternity but the Scottish electorate need to demonstrate that it's what they want, right now the polls don't definitively back that up. It's up to the SNP to change that, only they can do it. You could argue Westminster have more than done their part with the provision of Brexit and Boris as PM. If the Scottish electorate still needed convincing then I do start to lose hope for independence ever being delivered. If not now, when?

 

Any ire you see wasn't intended, I'm only making the perfectly legitimate point that another country's electorate decides what government we get

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Any ire you see wasn't intended, I'm only making the perfectly legitimate point that another country's electorate decides what government we get

 

Yeh, that's a fair point and as I've said before, one I totally agree with. I'm possibly seeing ire that isn't there and I'm glad you're still fighting for it, I've become a bit jaded in my quest of it. A combo of no longer living in Scotland and a decline in my faith in the competence of the SNP and their desire to deliver it has seen the fire die a little bit 👎

[Boab]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Agreed, but your ire should be aimed at the current Scottish government and the Scottish electorate.

 

The choice was given to extract ourselves from the shit situation, and we opted not to. I agree it isn't it for eternity but the Scottish electorate need to demonstrate that it's what they want, right now the polls don't definitively back that up. It's up to the SNP to change that, only they can do it. You could argue Westminster have more than done their part with the provision of Brexit and Boris as PM. If the Scottish electorate still needed convincing then I do start to lose hope for independence ever being delivered. If not now, when?

The Nats made a song and dance about a vote for them was, more or less, a mandate to pursue a second Ref. And they romped it only last year.

I would say the electorate have demonstrated what they want, otherwise they wouldn’t keep winning elections. 
 

[Taffin]

Just now, Boab said:

The Nats made a song and dance about a vote for them was, more or less, a mandate to pursue a second Ref. And they romped it only last year.

I would say the electorate have demonstrated what they want, otherwise they wouldn’t keep winning elections. 
 

 

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, they didn't achieve a majority of the vote? That may be enough to get you into government, but it's not enough to win a referendum.

[Boab]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, they didn't achieve a majority of the vote? That may be enough to get you into government, but it's not enough to win a referendum.

That is true. A referendum is a different beast, as the last one has shown.

Only pointing out that that was their rallying call at the last election and, in their eyes, it was a green light to pursue Independence. The machinations of the voting system is a whole different matter. The last Ref, a perfect example of a straight vote.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Thankfully, this isn't some bizzaro world where you have one single vote and that's it for eternity.

Maybe not for eternity, but you might only ever have one single vote in your lifetime on the subject of independence for Scotland - 2014.

 

As distasteful as that may be to you, it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

[Auldbenches]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

🤷‍♂️ Just enjoying the general to-and-fro, really.

 

 

Gorgie Rules  👍

That's why I enjoyed your post.  

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

Maybe not for eternity, but you might only ever have one single vote in your lifetime on the subject of independence for Scotland - 2014.

 

As distasteful as that may be to you, it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

I'm well aware of that, it's why I keep reminding people of what a ridiculous situation it is.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

No chance that will happen Enzo.  Complete unaccountability even after years of incompetence. Free pass to run the country into the ground because they are only major party to support their single issue. How these people expect a bunch of politicians who have done nothing but get away with bad governance to be able to turn that around. If the snp were being held to account and they actually made Scotland a better place during their time independence would be done and dusted. 

 

 

Wow! You love a rant without supporting your emotional position with evidence. It's easy to say but what exactly do you mean by "bad governance"? 

 

We have a detailed national framework that sets out performance targets across every area of governance. This makes sure that national and local government is transparent and accountable at every level. There's no such thing for the UK govt. An Office for National Statistics (ONS) survey also found that Scotland was the only country in the UK to show an increase in factors including life satisfaction, feeling happy, and feeling worthwhile.

 

Not held to account?! Nicola Sturgeon was grilled by a parliamentary enquiry committee over her actions for a solid 8 hours. Something she did with great dignity. Meanwhile, Boris has been lining the pockets of his wealthy chums during the pandemic and his hard Brexit is leading us to food and fuel shortages, rapidly rising inflation and an enormous debt pile from his addiction to quantitive easing (printing money and giving it to the financial markets). He lied about Brexit and the fact that it meant voting for a border with Ireland. He signed a treaty with the EU and then refused to comply with it. Priti Patel on the other hand has broken the ministerial code on more than one occasion including lying about a foreign trip to meet the Israeli PM Netanyahu. She has never been held to account. Nor has Boris for accepting money for decorating his home, using racist terms and his general "one rule for you and a different rule for me and my rich pals".

 

So, what exactly do you mean by accountability?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dazo]

54 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

 

Wow! You love a rant without supporting your emotional position with evidence. It's easy to say but what exactly do you mean by "bad governance"? 

 

We have a detailed national framework that sets out performance targets across every area of governance. This makes sure that national and local government is transparent and accountable at every level. There's no such thing for the UK govt. An Office for National Statistics (ONS) survey also found that Scotland was the only country in the UK to show an increase in factors including life satisfaction, feeling happy, and feeling worthwhile.

 

Not held to account?! Nicola Sturgeon was grilled by a parliamentary enquiry committee over her actions for a solid 8 hours. Something she did with great dignity. Meanwhile, Boris has been lining the pockets of his wealthy chums during the pandemic and his hard Brexit is leading us to food and fuel shortages, rapidly rising inflation and an enormous debt pile from his addiction to quantitive easing (printing money and giving it to the financial markets). He lied about Brexit and the fact that it meant voting for a border with Ireland. He signed a treaty with the EU and then refused to comply with it. Priti Patel on the other hand has broken the ministerial code on more than one occasion including lying about a foreign trip to meet the Israeli PM Netanyahu. She has never been held to account. Nor has Boris for accepting money for decorating his home, using racist terms and his general "one rule for you and a different rule for me and my rich pals".

 

So, what exactly do you mean by accountability?

 

 

 

 

 

 

A rant ? Hardly Sub. 😂 My life is far to successful to allow these matters to get me to rant stage. 

 

Leaving your whatabout to one side I was meaning there is no accountability from the electorate because they are the only party that will fight for independence. So for a vast majority of independence seekers they will vote for snp regardless of how they perform. Their performance on devolved matters are an embarrassment. We are constantly told things will be better without Westminster but I’ve no idea how anyone can believe that given the performance with the powers and extra tax income they currently have. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Aye yer arse, you can't pretend westminster isn't the government, they're the ones who decide if we're allowed a say, they're the ones who took us out of europe

We're still in Europe. It's the EU we left after the UK population voted in favour of that proposition. Scotland has never been a member of the EU.

Dry your eyes, we're out of the EU.

If anyone is still a bit misty eyed about this mythical European citizenship, that nobody knew we had until the Brexit campaign, then they can console themselves with world citizenship or universe citizenship.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

If it's political discomfort then that's the point! What else could it possibly mean? Nicola Sturgeon is a very able politician and she winds up unionists and that's fine by me, especially those orange, flag waving UJ types. I'm not a Catholic to remove doubt from certain mindsets on here but I'm a Freemason.

And who cares if you are a Catholic or not ? Stop stereotyping all supporters as bigots 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

The Scottish electorate vote in schemie wee neds like Dornan, Black and Bonnar. Unfortunately, I’m stuck with mutants like them but hey ho.

That'll be the electoral system of Scotland which returned huge numbers of SNP MSPs despite the Additional Member System being set up to prevent such outcomes. 

It would appear you're at odds with what the Scottish electorate clearly want. 

Perhaps a similar system in Westminster would see more balance in UK politics and fewer public school criminals wrecking the UK?

[Mars plastic]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

That'll be the electoral system of Scotland which returned huge numbers of SNP MSPs despite the Additional Member System being set up to prevent such outcomes. 

It would appear you're at odds with what the Scottish electorate clearly want. 

Perhaps a similar system in Westminster would see more balance in UK politics and fewer public school criminals wrecking the UK?

There's two things the electorate certainly don't want. Another referendum and independence. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

There's two things the electorate certainly don't want. Another referendum and independence. 

Still posting pish.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

25 minutes ago, Dazo said:

A rant ? Hardly Sub. 😂 My life is far to successful to allow these matters to get me to rant stage. 

 

Leaving your whatabout to one side I was meaning there is no accountability from the electorate because they are the only party that will fight for independence. So for a vast majority of independence seekers they will vote for snp regardless of how they perform. Their performance on devolved matters are an embarrassment. We are constantly told things will be better without Westminster but I’ve no idea how anyone can believe that given the performance with the powers and extra tax income they currently have. 

 

Even successful people can resort to a rant. Done it myself plenty times.

 

You are making a sweeping assumption about SNP voters but they do in fact now have a choice of 3 parties as the Greens and Alba are also fighting for independence.

 

Apologies if you've been specific in a previous post Dazo, but what devolved matters are you referring to?

 

Also, the majority of Tories will vote for them regardless of performance. Same for Labour. So, how does that make independence voters any different?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Sub4TiddlerMurray

[Mars plastic]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Still posting pish.

No, kiddo. That's all factually true. Less time posting emojis and more time doing your research would tell you that. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

No, kiddo. That's all factually true. Less time posting emojis and more time doing your research would tell you that. 

It must be true.

Have you phoned a friend yet?

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It must be true.

Have you phoned a friend yet?

Yes, several. 

[Roxy Hearts]

24 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

And who cares if you are a Catholic or not ? Stop stereotyping all supporters as bigots 

I said certain "mindsets" and there are some. No offence meant 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I said certain "mindsets" and there are some. No offence meant 👍

👍👍

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We're still in Europe. It's the EU we left after the UK population voted in favour of that proposition. Scotland has never been a member of the EU.

Dry your eyes, we're out of the EU.

If anyone is still a bit misty eyed about this mythical European citizenship, that nobody knew we had until the Brexit campaign, then they can console themselves with world citizenship or universe citizenship.

 

I know it's your MO to latch on to a key word and wriggle away from the point, but the point is that the national government is in Westminster, surely only an absolute ****tard would even bother debating that.

[Mars plastic]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We're still in Europe. It's the EU we left after the UK population voted in favour of that proposition. Scotland has never been a member of the EU.

Dry your eyes, we're out of the EU.

If anyone is still a bit misty eyed about this mythical European citizenship, that nobody knew we had until the Brexit campaign, then they can console themselves with world citizenship or universe citizenship.

Hi, I'm Smithee from Europe. Nice to meet you.

[Auldbenches]

58 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Yes, several. 

How can we compare the snp with the party you vote for of you won't tell us? 

 

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Hi, I'm Smithee from Europe. Nice to meet you.

Bless

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

And who cares if you are a Catholic or not ? Stop stereotyping all supporters as bigots 

Why do unionists keep hinting about religion then? Enzo has twice in last couple of days saying like it being like kerrydale street in here, porty Jambo called them the Scottish Republican Party and there’s always digs about Celtic when sturgeon is mentioned. Rees Mogg Jambo talked of religious war after indy. Do you wonder why almost everyone who rants and raves on social media against Indy tends to almost all of the time have union jacks and banners of 55 titles in their bio? This is a coincidence you think? 
This is about religion alright. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

How can we compare the snp with the party you vote for of you won't tell us? 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Why do unionists keep hinting about religion then? Enzo has twice in last couple of days saying like it being like kerrydale street in here, porty Jambo called them the Scottish Republican Party and there’s always digs about Celtic when sturgeon is mentioned. Rees Mogg Jambo talked of religious war after indy. Do you wonder why almost everyone who rants and raves on social media against Indy tends to almost all of the time have union jacks and banners of 55 titles in their bio? This is a coincidence you think? 
This is about religion alright. 

Well I’m thankful to my parents for my upbringing of zero religious input . It’s a stain in Scotland and actually in many parts of the world . I just can’t abide it when it’s referenced regarding football topics too 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Why do unionists keep hinting about religion then? Enzo has twice in last couple of days saying like it being like kerrydale street in here, porty Jambo called them the Scottish Republican Party and there’s always digs about Celtic when sturgeon is mentioned. Rees Mogg Jambo talked of religious war after indy. Do you wonder why almost everyone who rants and raves on social media against Indy tends to almost all of the time have union jacks and banners of 55 titles in their bio? This is a coincidence you think? 
This is about religion alright. 

[jack D and coke]

18 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well I’m thankful to my parents for my upbringing of zero religious input . It’s a stain in Scotland and actually in many parts of the world . I just can’t abide it when it’s referenced regarding football topics too 

Suppose I’m opposite of that. My gran used to say it was the first thing she asked a man when he asked her out. My mums uncle was forbidden by his mum to marry his girlfriend because she was Catholic and never married after that, he was a lovely bloke too what a shame. My gran wouldn’t attend my nieces confirmation in the chapel etc etc. My dads side are huns and I’ve been go to the odd sash bash with a big hun pal so I’m well aware. I used to think these things made me a real Hearts man🙈i learned all the fruity songs and became a bigot following Hearts without a a shadow of a doubt. 
The thing I find strange is a few of my Catholic pals told me they were always told never to vote the SNP as they were against them and listen to clowns like George Galloway saying he feared for catholic’s in Indy Scotland. The place would be run by swivel eyed lunatics in his opinion yet now to some it’s all about turning Scotland into this anti proddy place run by bad kaffliks. 
Bizarre. 
It’s got absolutely everything to do with religion though. 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

There's two things the electorate certainly don't want. Another referendum and independence. 

Given the void between what you want and what it would appear the good folks of Scotland actually want, I'd be interested in hearing how you come to this conclusion? 

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Given the void between what you want and what it would appear the good folks of Scotland actually want, I'd be interested in hearing how you come to this conclusion? 

It's all in the poster's head.

[Mars plastic]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Given the void between what you want and what it would appear the good folks of Scotland actually want, I'd be interested in hearing how you come to this conclusion? 

*Some of the good people of Scotland. The snp and it’s supporters don’t speak for the whole of Scotland. 
 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

We need less republicans imo. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

56 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

We need less republicans imo. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

We need less republicans imo. 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

10 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

 

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I know it's your MO to latch on to a key word and wriggle away from the point, but the point is that the national government is in Westminster, surely only an absolute ****tard would even bother debating that.

You know Smithee, you're all about process but nothing about substance.  It's all about "democratic rights", " the people of Scotland", "fair", "other countries voters" blah blah blah. "Want to be in this union", "not in this one"

Should be this, should be that.

Yet, like the SNP and Sturgeon herself, you ignore the important, factual outcomes that affect people on a daily basis. Hospital waiting lists, tragic deaths in hospitals and care homes due to SCOTTISH GOVT negligence, doctors appointments,  exam results,  class sizes, crime, policing budgets, roads etc etc.

All of them failures and all fully controlled by the incumbent SCOTTISH GOVT. Not Boris, Thatcher, Toooarries, Westminster. The SCOTTISH GOVT. Yet you don't appear to give a monkey's chuff.

Perhaps the issues I've mentioned don't affect you personally,  but they certainly affect most families up and down the country. It's batshit mental.

 

And, to top it all, you present yourself as a bastion of democracy, a purveyor of fairness while completely disregarding and wanting to overturn the democratic outcomes of 2 poisonous referendums, the likes of which the majority never want to endure again. 

I'm no longer prepared to give your views the oxygen needed to sustain such a dogmatic, narrow minded outlook.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You know Smithee, you're all about process but nothing about substance.  It's all about "democratic rights", " the people of Scotland", "fair", "other countries voters" blah blah blah. "Want to be in this union", "not in this one"

Should be this, should be that.

Yet, like the SNP and Sturgeon herself, you ignore the important, factual outcomes that affect people on a daily basis. Hospital waiting lists, tragic deaths in hospitals and care homes due to SCOTTISH GOVT negligence, doctors appointments,  exam results,  class sizes, crime, policing budgets, roads etc etc.

All of them failures and all fully controlled by the incumbent SCOTTISH GOVT. Not Boris, Thatcher, Toooarries, Westminster. The SCOTTISH GOVT. Yet you don't appear to give a monkey's chuff.

Perhaps the issues I've mentioned don't affect you personally,  but they certainly affect most families up and down the country. It's batshit mental.

 

And, to top it all, you present yourself as a bastion of democracy, a purveyor of fairness while completely disregarding and wanting to overturn the democratic outcomes of 2 poisonous referendums, the likes of which the majority never want to endure again. 

I'm no longer prepared to give your views the oxygen needed to sustain such a dogmatic, narrow minded outlook.

 

Funnily enough I've had cause to rely on more than one of those things this year, and they were pretty far from failures.

 

That aside, gie yer heid a wobble you absolute maniac, I couldn't care less if the village covidiot is unimpressed.

 

Scotland should decide who is in charge of Scotland.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Funnily enough I've had cause to rely on more than one of those things this year, and they were pretty far from failures.

 

That aside, gie yer heid a wobble you absolute maniac, I couldn't care less if the village covidiot is unimpressed.

 

Scotland should decide who is in charge of Scotland.

Don't bother too much about this chancer. He sounds like those unionist twats Ian Murray and Murdo Fraser. Life would be better without the bitter and twisted UJ waving zealots. They won the referendum but you'd think they'd lost! They don't realise democracy never stops!

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Don't bother too much about this chancer. He sounds like those unionist twats Ian Murray and Murdo Fraser. Life would be better without the bitter and twisted UJ waving zealots. They won the referendum but you'd think they'd lost! They don't realise democracy never stops!

Probably better to be compared to Ian Murray or Murdo Fraser. Respected MPs/MSPs who have run businesses or achieved something in life, which is why they don't sport SNP rosettes. 

Unlike the uncouth, semi-literate, neanderthals that regularly embarass Scotland on a daily basis in the House of Commons. 

Just saying.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Probably better to be compared to Ian Murray or Murdo Fraser. Respected MPs/MSPs who have run businesses or achieved something in life, which is why they don't sport SNP rosettes. 

Unlike the uncouth, semi-literate, neanderthals that regularly embarass Scotland on a daily basis in the House of Commons. 

Just saying.

"Respected!" I'll leave it there. 🤣

[Ked]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58705456.amp

 

 

[Mars plastic]

6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Probably better to be compared to Ian Murray or Murdo Fraser. Respected MPs/MSPs who have run businesses or achieved something in life, which is why they don't sport SNP rosettes. 

Unlike the uncouth, semi-literate, neanderthals that regularly embarass Scotland on a daily basis in the House of Commons. 

Just saying.

Oh my. Be still my beating heart. 
 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

*Some of the good people of Scotland. The snp and it’s supporters don’t speak for the whole of Scotland. 
 

 

They would appear to speak for a considerable majority of Scottish voters, given the last electoral ballot.

And the one before that.

And the one before that.

And all within a system duked to prevent that from happening.

 

You getting it yet?