The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Auldbenches]

7 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

How do I decide who posts what on this thread?

You tried to by saying only to discuss the rise and fall.  You posted that when anything positive about tbe snp was posted.  That is telling people if they can post or not 

[Auldbenches]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Albas case is pretty much made for them. In the central belt at least, 2 votes SNP doesn't work. 

 

Now, whether that means we're all voting SNP or Greens it doesn't really matter. But list votes for the SNP is a waste of time and I'm not sure why they're still clinging on to that strategy? Maybe afraid if they stop being the only show in town folk might stop voting for them?

I don't understand why Scottish politicians want us to vote for the same party in the list section.  Defeats the whole point of how our system is set up.   I think you are right regarding the fear of losing voters.  What's the point of the list system then?  

[Shanks said no]

6 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Albas case is pretty much made for them. In the central belt at least, 2 votes SNP doesn't work. 

 

Now, whether that means we're all voting SNP or Greens it doesn't really matter. But list votes for the SNP is a waste of time and I'm not sure why they're still clinging on to that strategy? Maybe afraid if they stop being the only show in town folk might stop voting for them?

Agree, Glasgow is even more stark and a large Alba vote would impact the unionist vote hard, assuming the SNP hold onto the constituency seats

Scottish parliamentary election, 2016: Glasgow
Party		Elected candidates	Seats	+/−	Votes	%	+/−%
	SNP		0	-2	111,101	44.8%	+4.9%
	Labour	Anas Sarwar Johann Lamont James Kelly Pauline McNeill	4	+1	59,151	23.8%	-11.1%
	Conservative	Adam Tomkins Annie Wells	2	+1	29,533	11.9%	+5.8%
	Scottish Green	Patrick Harvie	1	±0	23,398	9.4%	+3.5%

 

[Auldbenches]

15 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

'...I'm debating that people who disagree with you have the right to post on this thread and gave an example of how daft that is'...

If you take a moment to read the previous 188 pages of this thread, you will discover that a lot of the posts are in disagreement with the title of the thread. I have no power over who replies or what they say. 

 

'You still think no one should post in this thread unless they are only talking about the fall of the snp?'

I have never thought that. If you look at the stats of the individuals who have replied on this thread, 3 of the 4 most numerous replies have come from people that disagreed with the statement in the title. 

(secondary- the tenth guideline of the JKB rules https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/guidelines/ is 10. Responses within a thread must remain on topic to that thread.'

 

 

I'm going to leave this discussion with you.  I gave you examples of policies to get a debate going and you have ignored it.  You aren't here for a deb6,just to vent anger.  

I can't discuss things with you as you are selective in what you reply to and just wanting to Express anger. 

Not answering my question about policies proves that.  

Bye 

[Auldbenches]

48 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

bye (I did reply to you, many times)

Not in any detail.  I asked you what you thought of certain policies but you ignored them after saying yiu would debate.  

You never came back on any if that.

You are choosing what you reply to as it suits the anger you are here to vent.  

Why not come  back on the policies I mentioned?  

 

[jambogaza]

10 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I support what the people want really mate. If Scotland wants it then great and if not that’s fair enough too but yeah I’d more than likely vote Yes. I don’t like the SNP though and can’t stand some of them, the voters and the party. 

But I despise the rest. 

 

I voted yes in 2014 but seeing Salmond yesterday on Ch4 news was a sad, sad sight. He was cleared of any criminality but his behaviour whilst in office was very questionable. To sit in an interview with Ch4 and refuse to even acknowledge his past behaviour is worrying and suggests, to me, someone in serious denial about their flaws and shortcomings. I can't vote for that.

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

How do I decide who posts what on this thread?

You don’t, but you’re trying to tell people what to do. Folk are talking about the SNP, it’s a thread about the SNP. Ask the mods to intervene because you’re still waiting on the fall hahahahaha. 

[jambos are go!]

1 hour ago, jambogaza said:

 

I voted yes in 2014 but seeing Salmond yesterday on Ch4 news was a sad, sad sight. He was cleared of any criminality but his behaviour whilst in office was very questionable. To sit in an interview with Ch4 and refuse to even acknowledge his past behaviour is worrying and suggests, to me, someone in serious denial about their flaws and shortcomings. I can't vote for that.

The Independence movement has one last chance at winning a referendum. They don't want to waste it in the current circumstances.

It being denied will let them continue with grievance politics which is a much more attractive option. That's why as a Unionist I want another Referendum now.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

7 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

The Independence movement has one last chance at winning a referendum. They don't want to waste it in the current circumstances.

It being denied will let them continue with grievance politics which is a much more attractive option. That's why as a Unionist I want another Referendum now.

 

What grievance? It's normal to want your country to be self governing. If there is any it's from those who wish to deny the normality of getting governments you vote for!

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, jambogaza said:

 

I voted yes in 2014 but seeing Salmond yesterday on Ch4 news was a sad, sad sight. He was cleared of any criminality but his behaviour whilst in office was very questionable. To sit in an interview with Ch4 and refuse to even acknowledge his past behaviour is worrying and suggests, to me, someone in serious denial about their flaws and shortcomings. I can't vote for that.

 

Which bit of his behaviour did he not acknowledge?

[Guest]

One thing the ecksit party will likely ensure, is that the main topic for these elections is the single issue of separating from the UK.

 

This will suit the SNP rather than there being a scrutiny on areas such as drug deaths and education which Sturgeon said she wanted to be judged on.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Candy

[Guest]

Kenny mackaskill has now defected from the SNP.

 

 

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, Candy said:

Kenny mackaskill has now defected from the SNP.

 

 

i read that as deficated

[jambos are go!]

45 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What grievance? It's normal to want your country to be self governing. If there is any it's from those who wish to deny the normality of getting governments you vote for!

Why was the independence referendum clearly lost in 2014 then.

[Shanks said no]

16 minutes ago, Candy said:

Kenny mackaskill has now defected from the SNP.

 

 

East Lothian MP, Kenny MacAskill, has announced he's joining the Alba Party.

The former justice secretary will now head the new party’s Lothian list.

In an open letter to his party workers, the East Lothian MP said: “I will be joining the newly formed Alba Party to deliver than supermajority for independence through the list vote and which I believe’s essential to achieving our nation’s independence.”

Edited March 27, 2021 by The Frenchman Returns

[OTT]

Wonder if we might see Joanna Cherry and MacNeil defect also?

 

Neither have been treated well by the party so would make sense IMO. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I dislike the Sun newspaper intently but they do have a habit of having amusing headline. Todays is quite funny. Wee eck's face transposed on to Arnie's Terminator body with the headline Alba Back. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Seymour M Hersh

[Shanks said no]

10 minutes ago, OTT said:

Wonder if we might see Joanna Cherry and MacNeil defect also?

 

Neither have been treated well by the party so would make sense IMO. 

Cherry tweeted yesterday saying no to the rumours, she was resting on health grounds. Possibly taking a step back and watching how it unfolds.

[Skacelsid]

Devolution has been disastrous for Scotland never mind independence. The ones that have suffered most is our youth trying to make their way in life. Far too many have poorly paid jobs with no prospect of a decent adult life with basic expectations of a house and family, far too many leave school and lack of opportunity leads to crime, addiction or a life on benefits, with all the resulting social problems. The SNP have had every chance to change things and lead the way in the UK instead their policy is to blame everything on Westminster. They promise our young people, who have never experienced a prosperous Scotland, a better future and even dropped the voting age in the pretence of democracy to get their vote. It is not Westminster, although far from perfect, that fails Scotland and will continue to do so until they get their way. They do not represent Scotland they represent their own interests. 

[Footballfirst]

48 minutes ago, Candy said:

Kenny mackaskill has now defected from the SNP.

 

 

 

....... and a response from Ian Blackford

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

....... and a response from Ian Blackford

Interesting, but also not surprising that Blackfords statement is a personal attack

Edited March 27, 2021 by Candy

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, Candy said:

Interesting, but also not surprising that Blackfords statement is a personal attack

 

Think its pretty vile how personal the attack actually is.

 

Then again, does Blackford not have previous with Charles Kennedy?

[manaliveits105]

Blackford is typical of the nastieness ingrained in the snp - a man with little to offer politics but insults and constantly whinging 

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Blackford is typical of the nastieness ingrained in the snp - a man with little to offer politics but insults and constantly whinging 

 

I think the SNP would do well to remember that they still need the Alba voters to vote SNP 1 and there is little appetite to give them an outright majority. 

[manaliveits105]

Nicoliar just interviewed on news about Salmond and saying it’s a gamble but he likes a gamble - said gamble 3 or 4 times in 30 seconds and yesterday somebody else from snp gave same kind of response - not happy with the sex allegations they are trying to make out he is one these terrible people who bet now 

deary me 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, Barack said:

Assume it's related to this:

 

 

 

 

I'm extremely unclear how what he is advocating could be construed as a gamble?

 

2.5% less votes in 2016 cost the SNP 12 list seats. That is despite over 950,000 votes. Surely it makes more sense for those 950,000 votes to be diveded between the Greens and Alba to give a super majority parliament advocating for the 1 thing the SNP should want. The louder the unionist voice in parliament the more negativity the public hear towards Independence. 

 

The Tories are shitting themselves and are trying to open talks with Labour and the Lib dems on some sort of Unionist pact. 

 

This is doing something very positive for the YES movement and meaning that Sturgeon doesn't have a monopoly on Independence anymore. (IMO as a result of her actions over the last 3 years with shit like the GRA).

[Mikey1874]

So is the Independence movement now effectively split? 

 

I know there have been disagreements about strategy. There always is in politics. But this is now very public. 

 

But if Nicola is going to put the campaign for woman's rights not to be harassed above Independence then it's a risky strategy. 

[Cade]

In 2016, the SNP received 953,587 votes on the regional lists. This resulted in 4 more seats to add to their 59 constituency seats.

The Conservative and Unionist Party received 524,222 regional votes and got 24 seats out of it. They only won 7 Constituency seats.

Scottish Labour received 435,919 regional votes, gaining 21 seats to add to their 3 Constituency seats.

The Greens received 150,426 regional votes, gaining 6 seats. They won no constituency seats.

 

The less Constituencies you win, the more Regionals you get.

 

Alba are not standing in any constituencies so they'll have a heavier weighting on the regional lists.

If half of the SNP voters that voted SNP in the regional lists vote for Alba instead, then Salmond's crowd will win a bunch of regional seats.

 

No wonder the Unionist parties are both shitting it.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Cade

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Nicoliar just interviewed on news about Salmond and saying it’s a gamble but he likes a gamble - said gamble 3 or 4 times in 30 seconds and yesterday somebody else from snp gave same kind of response - not happy with the sex allegations they are trying to make out he is one these terrible people who bet now 

deary me 

I've noticed over the last year that she often has a word or phrase of the day. Today's must be gamble

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, Barack said:

 

That man has never done anything to further Scotland's interests in an altruistic manner. I don't agree with Sturgeon on a lot of things. But she's bang on with the character assessment(assassination).

 

 

 

That's going to need more explanation.

 

It's not enough to diss Salmond and make out Nicola is a saint. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Barack said:

The part from her statement that jumps out to me is: " For my part, in this campaign, I'm focused on the interests of the Country."

 

As opposed to Salmond's own & his perceived slights at the hand of justice, Sturgeon & the SNP. 

 

 

The part that stands out to me is that he makes big claims that don't stand up to scutiny.......independence? 

[SE16 3LN]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

In 2016, the SNP received 953,587 votes on the regional lists. This resulted in 4 more seats to add to their 59 constituency seats.

The Conservative and Unionist Party received 524,222 regional votes and got 24 seats out of it. They only won 7 Constituency seats.

Scottish Labour received 435,919 regional votes, gaining 21 seats to add to their 3 Constituency seats.

The Greens received 150,426 regional votes, gaining 6 seats. They won no constituency seats.

 

The less Constituencies you win, the more Regionals you get.

 

Alba are not standing in any constituencies so they'll have a heavier weighting on the regional lists.

If half of the SNP voters that voted SNP in the regional lists vote for Alba instead, then Salmond's crowd will win a bunch of regional seats.

 

No wonder the Unionist parties are both shitting it.

 

Yesterday you said, 

 

He's putting up 4 candidates.

Four.

In total.

In the entire country.

And all in regional lists.

 

Its clear that you, the JKB Diane Abbott, is the one who is flustered. 

 

PS, Proper Scots say Shite not shit. 

 

 

 

[OTT]

delete, not correct

Edited March 27, 2021 by OTT

[Don Dan]

SNP's Kenny MacAskill becomes party's first Westminster MP to defect to Alex Salmond's new Alba Party

Ex-SNP MP Corrie Wilson is also joining the former first minister, fuelling speculation more disillusioned nationalists could be primed to desert Nicola Sturgeon

Four becomes more. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Boy Daniel

[Tazio]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Blackford is typical of the nastieness ingrained in the snp - a man with little to offer politics but insults and constantly whinging 

I got no real strong opinions in terms of political parties as a long term supporter but I’ve noticed from people I know on social media an acceptance of this type of language. Even to the point of lapping it up, peaking with the types that lap up anything at all Mhairi Black says no matter how contentious. I understand loyalty to a party but it’s unhealthy when that support becomes completely non critical of any statement or viewpoint. 
Sturgeon is fortunate that it’s Salmond that’s started this party as he’s sullied in the eyes of a lot of people. The SNP is increasingly one person’s policies and opinions on subjects outwith independence. No matter how much it’s swept under the carpet there are still a lot of people supporting independence that are the clichéd anti English jockerati types that I’m fairly confident aren’t massive supporters of some of her ideas in terms of gender politics etc. It’s the classic case of competition being healthy but the competition not being up to the task at hand. 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Why was the independence referendum clearly lost in 2014 then.

Years of propaganda! 

[OTT]

27 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I got no real strong opinions in terms of political parties as a long term supporter but I’ve noticed from people I know on social media an acceptance of this type of language. Even to the point of lapping it up, peaking with the types that lap up anything at all Mhairi Black says no matter how contentious. I understand loyalty to a party but it’s unhealthy when that support becomes completely non critical of any statement or viewpoint. 
Sturgeon is fortunate that it’s Salmond that’s started this party as he’s sullied in the eyes of a lot of people. The SNP is increasingly one person’s policies and opinions on subjects outwith independence. No matter how much it’s swept under the carpet there are still a lot of people supporting independence that are the clichéd anti English jockerati types that I’m fairly confident aren’t massive supporters of some of her ideas in terms of gender politics etc. It’s the classic case of competition being healthy but the competition not being up to the task at hand. 

 

Its cult like. I'm also finding the sneering from SNP MPs pretty distasteful. The SNP themselves were sneered at for years, so they'd be wise to remember why they were elected. 

 

I'm hugely optimistic about May.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, weehammy said:

Ha, ha, ha, .....sweaty Kenny, another total charlatan and a hibby to boot!
Who can forget his speech on telly when al Megrahi was released? .....’he is going to die......’. Comedy gold and a wonderful impression of the Rev. I.M. Jolly.

 

He also tried to get rid of the “ not proven “ verdict and corroboration for convictions . Both corner stones of Scottish criminal law . 

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

He also tried to get rid of the “ not proven “ verdict and corroboration for convictions . Both corner stones of Scottish criminal law . 

 

SNP Government probably will revisit corroboration.

 

Expect this as part of their focus on victims of sexual offences. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

SNP Government probably will revisit corroboration.

 

Expect this as part of their focus on victims of sexual offences. 

Disgraceful 

[Janbo1874]

7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Blackford is typical of the nastieness ingrained in the snp - a man with little to offer politics but insults and constantly whinging 

Odious man with his nose in the trough and a one way ticket on the gravy train to Westminster expenses.

 

[Unknown user]

47 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

He also tried to get rid of the “ not proven “ verdict and corroboration for convictions . Both corner stones of Scottish criminal law . 

I see no good reason for Not Proven. It's an acquittal, meaning they weren't found guilty, I don't see the reason for a distinction after that. If a court can't find you guilty, you should be found not guilty IMO

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I see no good reason for Not Proven. It's an acquittal, meaning they weren't found guilty, I don't see the reason for a distinction after that. If a court can't find you guilty, you should be found not guilty IMO

I Just find it quirky and unique . “ that ******* verdict “ as some one once said 

[jack D and coke]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/major-johnsons-hardline-refusal-of-indyref2-could-provoke-break-up-of-uk-261159/?fbclid=IwAR0EW5SR7eq2eu2-Lh_VKruOa2-ewme9B3NOEdSZ9OTe7E_ZuJvpIjp2UC0
John Major is speaking sense again. A thoroughly decent man. 
No wonder he was unpopular in his party. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/major-johnsons-hardline-refusal-of-indyref2-could-provoke-break-up-of-uk-261159/?fbclid=IwAR0EW5SR7eq2eu2-Lh_VKruOa2-ewme9B3NOEdSZ9OTe7E_ZuJvpIjp2UC0
John Major is speaking sense again. A thoroughly decent man. 
No wonder he was unpopular in his party. 

I  never believe a word a Unionist utters. They are always at the kid on. Always contrived.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I  never believe a word a Unionist utters. They are always at the kid on. Always contrived.

John Major can’t stand BJ or pretty much any of that cabinet and he speaks passionately about the Union. I don’t have a problem with that tbh. 
Ive always felt he was a good sort. 
 

[BudgeUp]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

John Major can’t stand BJ or pretty much any of that cabinet and he speaks passionately about the Union. I don’t have a problem with that tbh. 
Ive always felt he was a good sort. 
 

Probably the finest Prime Minister there's been in my lifetime.

[Roxy Hearts]

24 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

John Major can’t stand BJ or pretty much any of that cabinet and he speaks passionately about the Union. I don’t have a problem with that tbh. 
Ive always felt he was a good sort. 
 

I don't trust Westminster unionists old and new for good reason. Major was part of that disgusting human being Thatcher's government. It was that ilk that destroyed any semblance of a UK or GB for me. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I don't trust Westminster unionists old and new for good reason. Major was part of that disgusting human being Thatcher's government. It was that ilk that destroyed any semblance of a UK or GB for me. 

Fair doos man aye. 

[Roxy Hearts]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Fair doos man aye. 

Enjoy you evening 👍