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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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5 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

No answer to the lifting costs then? Didn't think so. 

Christ mate, if you want to get into the minutae of oil production just google it... The data is out there. Brent crude costs $52 per brl to extract and is currently priced at $58...Are you going to deflect some more by wanting to compare one oilfield against another next?North Sea Oil is not rich enough to bankroll independence even if the Scottish Govt was able to tear up all the existing long term contracts and renegotiate them for their own interest... 

 

Stop banging that drum. it's bust!

 

 

Edited by Spellczech
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Roxy Hearts
2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good use of the extra money from Westminster. 

 

Though other public services are facing cuts. 

It's our own money! Westminster take it all and we get the scraps. SNP bad though.

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2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

whataboot the tooooooooooooaries 

 

Ah, the pleasing sound of "I'm a hypocrite with absolutely nothing useful to say" :jj:

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1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Christ mate, if you want to get into the minutae of oil production just google it... The data is out there. Brent crude costs $52 per brl to extract and is currently priced at $58...Are you going to deflect some more by wanting to compare one oilfield against another next?North Sea Oil is not rich enough to bankroll independence even if the Scottish Govt was able to tear up all the existing long term contracts and renegotiate them for their own interest... 

 

Stop banging that drum. it's bust!

 

 

 

Where did I bang that drum? You brought it up :rofl:

 

I have to say, I haven't been in an oil field with lifting cost's as high as that for many a year. I am surprised that the costings of are so easily available, but I'll take your word for it. 

 

You really should stop going on / banging the drum about oil price. It's boring

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manaliveits105
7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah, the pleasing sound of "I'm a hypocrite with absolutely nothing useful to say" :jj:

well done you for learning the whole snp election manifesto off by heart already 

1. Toaries bad 

2. Freeedumb - paint your face and march up and doon - people who dont want it arent entitled to an opinion 

3, em nope thats it we are ok cos the ginger minnion will save us .

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Where did I bang that drum? You brought it up :rofl:

 

I have to say, I haven't been in an oil field with lifting cost's as high as that for many a year. I am surprised that the costings of are so easily available, but I'll take your word for it. 

 

You really should stop going on / banging the drum about oil price. It's boring

No, I mentioned it, along with other stuff. You focussed in on it. 

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6 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

No, I mentioned it, along with other stuff. You focussed in on it. 

 

So you brought it up / banged on about it. Glad you agree.

 

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3 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

So you brought it up / banged on about it. Glad you agree.

 

You're not really worth discussing stuff with, are you? Cheerio.

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On 23/03/2021 at 22:54, Pasquale for King said:

The guy is apparently beyond approach, you surely don’t trust the goons on the committee? 
Politics is a dirty business, I had hoped we were better in this country than that but it’s nowhere near as good as it should be. 
We can only hope that after independence we get a higher standard of government, all bets are off. It’s the only way to get rid of Sturgeon and the SNP. 
Apologies for the patronising post, I had just watched our worst result in living memory.  

Appreciate the apology, thank you. I'm afraid I'm not convinced that a person appointed by the First Minister (albeit the previous one) and paid to be an adviser is independent. Regretfully this Government is every bit as bad as the Westminster Government, and every error is justified by comparison to the low levels of integrity alleged down south. ..... I'm still hurting after that result too 😞

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Pasquale for King
38 minutes ago, H2 said:

Appreciate the apology, thank you. I'm afraid I'm not convinced that a person appointed by the First Minister (albeit the previous one) and paid to be an adviser is independent. Regretfully this Government is every bit as bad as the Westminster Government, and every error is justified by comparison to the low levels of integrity alleged down south. ..... I'm still hurting after that result too 😞

I don’t think the comparison between the two stands up to any scrutiny , nobody in the government at Holyrood has broken the law or the ministerial code. 
I’m away to print up some Budge Out Neilson Out posters. 

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5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think the comparison between the two stands up to any scrutiny , nobody in the government at Holyrood has broken the law or the ministerial code. 
I’m away to print up some Budge Out Neilson Out posters. 

By the same token nobody in the current Westminster has been found guilty of the breaching Ministerial Code. While Patel did concede she had fallen below standards, and was accused of breaking the code, there was never any concession that she broke the code. Maybe like Sturgeon her standards dropped because she forgot 🙂 . They are all peas in a pod. 

 

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Pasquale for King
12 minutes ago, H2 said:

By the same token nobody in the current Westminster has been found guilty of the breaching Ministerial Code. While Patel did concede she had fallen below standards, and was accused of breaking the code, there was never any concession that she broke the code. Maybe like Sturgeon her standards dropped because she forgot 🙂 . They are all peas in a pod. 

 

Yes she did. https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/priti-patel-did-bully-staff-but-pm-decides-no-further-action

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2 hours ago, H2 said:

By the same token nobody in the current Westminster has been found guilty of the breaching Ministerial Code.

 

Posting the same article I posted ten hours ago, which lists

 

- Boris Johnson

- Rishi Sunak

- Priti Patel

- Michael Gove

- Matt Hancock

- Robert Jenrick

- Alister Jack

- Dominic Raab

- Grant Shapps

- Gavin Williamson

- Liz Truss

 

The majority of these at quick count have had allegations proven against them or their code-breaking activity confirmed in one way or another by an authority. Including Priti Patel, about whom the inquiry found “Her approach on occasions has amounted to behaviour that can be described as bullying in terms of the impact felt by individuals.”

 

They are not “all peas in a pod”, at least in this respect. Even claiming they're anywhere close is just simply not being honest with yourself.

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2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

While in my opinion she did breach the code even this article does not say she did, and a key excerpt is "Sir Alex said: “I recognise that it is for the Prime Minister to make a judgement on whether actions by a Minister amount to a breach of the Ministerial Code." The Prime minister has not decreed she broke the code. The parliamentary committee concluded that Sturgeon misled the Scottish Parliament...... and so it goes on and on and on.

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13 minutes ago, H2 said:

While in my opinion she did breach the code even this article does not say she did, and a key excerpt is "Sir Alex said: “I recognise that it is for the Prime Minister to make a judgement on whether actions by a Minister amount to a breach of the Ministerial Code." The Prime minister has not decreed she broke the code. The parliamentary committee concluded that Sturgeon misled the Scottish Parliament...... and so it goes on and on and on.

 

Let's be honest, this is clutching at straws. Besides, the opposition parties wildly over played their hands on this one and they all - bar the Tories who ended up looking ridiculous  - backed down.

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15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Posting the same article I posted ten hours ago, which lists

 

- Boris Johnson

- Rishi Sunak

- Priti Patel

- Michael Gove

- Matt Hancock

- Robert Jenrick

- Alister Jack

- Dominic Raab

- Grant Shapps

- Gavin Williamson

- Liz Truss

 

The majority of these at quick count have had allegations proven against them or their code-breaking activity confirmed in one way or another by an authority. Including Priti Patel, about whom the inquiry found “Her approach on occasions has amounted to behaviour that can be described as bullying in terms of the impact felt by individuals.”

 

They are not “all peas in a pod”, at least in this respect. Even claiming they're anywhere close is just simply not being honest with yourself.

While they may have in reality broken the code, they have not been found guilty of doing so, hence it can only be allegations.  They are all peas in a pod, they have all lied to and or misled their parliaments. It's interesting that you have appointed yourself my judge too. 

 

These things are really academic though in terms of integrity of the Scottish Government, and tangent and smoke screens to get away from the subject, unless you think that failures in Westminster make it ok to have the same standards in Scotland?

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1 minute ago, jambogaza said:

 

Let's be honest, this is clutching at straws. Besides, the opposition parties wildly over played their hands on this one and they all - bar the Tories who ended up looking ridiculous  - backed down.

No, it's all smokescreens to take away from the issues that are going on at Holyrood. We need to concentrate on things in Scotland, we are inevitably going to be independent, it would be nice to have an honest government, with leaders who take responsibility. 

 

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8 minutes ago, H2 said:

unless you think that failures in Westminster make it ok to have the same standards in Scotland?

 

A number of enquiries and other formal processes, prescribed by law/procedure, have "found guilty" those who broke the code. On account of the same type of procedure having found no one in the current SG "guilty", they are quite literally not the same. Denying that you realise that is, again, simply not being honest with yourself, and has nothing to do with me or anyone else judging you; it simply is.

 

A great many people in this thread have said from the beginning that should Sturgeon or anyone else be found to have broken the code, they should resign. You are now twisting yourself in knots to deny that standard should have been applied in London, as several members of that government have been found to have broken the code. Not allegations, conclusions.

 

5 minutes ago, H2 said:

It would be nice to have an honest government, with leaders who take responsibility.

 

If Sturgeon would resign anyway, and take the opportunity to point out what I just said above about all of Westminster's malfeasance while doing so, she could state firmly that the clear and only way the people of Scotland can get an accountable government is through independence. I think the polls would shoot over 60%. But unfortunately I don't see that happening.

 

Edited by Justin Z
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Johnson needs to adjust her budget down. Her public sector giveaways should not be without cost. Just more trouble making and bribery by this mob of militant anti Britain subversives.

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Pasquale for King
20 minutes ago, H2 said:

While in my opinion she did breach the code even this article does not say she did, and a key excerpt is "Sir Alex said: “I recognise that it is for the Prime Minister to make a judgement on whether actions by a Minister amount to a breach of the Ministerial Code." The Prime minister has not decreed she broke the code. The parliamentary committee concluded that Sturgeon misled the Scottish Parliament...... and so it goes on and on and on.

So as long as BJ decides she hasn’t then it’s ok? It’s not up to him to decide that, but you won’t accept Hamiltons judgement? You do accept the version of 5 opposition MSPs who say Sturgeon unknowingly misled them.

I actually trust Wightman as I’ve met him a few times and if he was playing politics he wouldn’t have voted this way, he’s unlikely to get in again as an independent in the Highlands where he’s moving to. The other 4 are SNP hating bitter British Nationalists who see their precious Union dissolving before their eyes. One of them broke the ministerial code by leaving the verdict. 
You seem to be refuse to or be incapable of taking on board that the Tories knowingly do this on a daily basis at Westminster and compare this to Holyrood. 

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Governor Tarkin
4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

They are not “all peas in a pod”, at least in this respect. Even claiming they're anywhere close is just simply not being honest with yourself.

 

Correct.

The Jock politicians are Sunday pub team standard.

The majority of our top operators ply their trade down south, in the big league. 

Salmond was always an exception to this rule. Love him or hate him, the man was a first rank operator.

It was probably his predeliction for young women and not young boys that kept him away from either of the Westminster big two.

 

The only laddies he was interested in was the bookies in Linlithgow.

 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Konrad von Carstein
8 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Correct.

The Jock politicians are Sunday pub team standard.

The majority of our top operators ply their trade down south, in the big league. 

Salmond was always an exception to this rule. Love him or hate him, the man was a first rank operator.

It was probably his predeliction for young women and not young boys that kept him away from either of the Westminster big two.

 

The only laddies he was interested in was the bookies in Linlithgow.

 

 

Aye the liking young women kept him away from the big 2, that and the wanting independence for Scotland thing...

:kirk:

 

🍭

😪🤧😾

Edited by Konrad von Carstein
**** phone and emojis...
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4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Aye the liking young women kept him away from the big 2, that and the wanting independence for Scotland thing...

:kirk:

 

🍭

😪🤧😾

 

@Governor Tarkin is right though—it's become abundantly clear that Alex Salmond was always all-in for independence for one reason, and that reason was the benefit to Alex Salmond. Now that there's no such benefit, everything he does with the potential knock-on effect of torpedoing the movement just proves it further.

 

A worrying characteristic becoming all-too-obvious among many such politicians.

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Konrad von Carstein
28 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

@Governor Tarkin is right though—it's become abundantly clear that Alex Salmond was always all-in for independence for one reason, and that reason was the benefit to Alex Salmond. Now that there's no such benefit, everything he does with the potential knock-on effect of torpedoing the movement just proves it further.

 

A worrying characteristic becoming all-too-obvious among many such politicians.

I see where you are coming from 😳 And yes the vast VAST majority of politicians are all about themselves (thank God for St Nicola the Pure 😇) ... Please to note also I was trying to add some more levity to this thread.. . Fail for me :lol:

Edited by Konrad von Carstein
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6 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I see where you are coming from 😳 And yes the vast VAST majority of politicians are all about themselves (thank God for St Nicola the Pure 😇) ... Please to note also I was trying to add some more levity to this thread.. . Fail for me :lol:

 

Nah, fail for the Yank who is genetically incapable of picking up on subtlety or sarcasm :thumbsup:

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Governor Tarkin
11 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Please to note also I was trying to add some more levity to this thread..  :lol:

 

As was I. :) 👍

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Konrad von Carstein
32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

As was I. :) 👍

🖖🍭
:)

 

Edited by Konrad von Carstein
This arsing phone!!
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13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

A number of enquiries and other formal processes, prescribed by law/procedure, have "found guilty" those who broke the code. On account of the same type of procedure having found no one in the current SG "guilty", they are quite literally not the same. Denying that you realise that is, again, simply not being honest with yourself, and has nothing to do with me or anyone else judging you; it simply is.

 

A great many people in this thread have said from the beginning that should Sturgeon or anyone else be found to have broken the code, they should resign. You are now twisting yourself in knots to deny that standard should have been applied in London, as several members of that government have been found to have broken the code. Not allegations, conclusions.

 

 

If Sturgeon would resign anyway, and take the opportunity to point out what I just said above about all of Westminster's malfeasance while doing so, she could state firmly that the clear and only way the people of Scotland can get an accountable government is through independence. I think the polls would shoot over 60%. But unfortunately I don't see that happening.

 

You are the one twisting, I've been stupid enough to be taken off on a tangent by all those who want to twist the justification for failures in Holyrood by comparisons and failures in Westminster. The bottom line is that Politicians are continuing to behave improperly and getting off on technicalities. The Scottish First Minister comes into that category, it's irrelevant how many other politicians in how ever many other parliaments do the same. It is wrong. But Judge Justin decides!

 

 

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manaliveits105
1 minute ago, H2 said:

You are the one twisting, I've been stupid enough to be taken off on a tangent by all those who want to twist the justification for failures in Holyrood by comparisons and failures in Westminster. The bottom line is that Politicians are continuing to behave improperly and getting off on technicalities. The Scottish First Minister comes into that category, it's irrelevant how many other politicians in how ever many other parliaments do the same. It is wrong. But Judge Justin decides!

 

 

:greatpost:

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3 minutes ago, H2 said:

You are the one twisting, I've been stupid enough to be taken off on a tangent by all those who want to twist the justification for failures in Holyrood by comparisons and failures in Westminster. The bottom line is that Politicians are continuing to behave improperly and getting off on technicalities. The Scottish First Minister comes into that category, it's irrelevant how many other politicians in how ever many other parliaments do the same. It is wrong. But Judge Justin decides!

 

I mean, if you say so! H2 has decreed, therefore it is so :lol:

 

Nothing above, as you well know if you're honest with yourself, was a justification of anything at Holyrood: it was a very clear and easy takedown of selective Tory/Unionist outrage and double standards.

 

So once again:

 

13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

A great many people in this thread have said from the beginning that should Sturgeon or anyone else be found to have broken the code, they should resign. 

 

...and...

 

13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

...Sturgeon (sh)ould resign anyway

 

Go on pretending that's not what's said if you like, but that's just silly, mate. :smile:

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13 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

So as long as BJ decides she hasn’t then it’s ok? It’s not up to him to decide that, but you won’t accept Hamiltons judgement? You do accept the version of 5 opposition MSPs who say Sturgeon unknowingly misled them.

I actually trust Wightman as I’ve met him a few times and if he was playing politics he wouldn’t have voted this way, he’s unlikely to get in again as an independent in the Highlands where he’s moving to. The other 4 are SNP hating bitter British Nationalists who see their precious Union dissolving before their eyes. One of them broke the ministerial code by leaving the verdict. 
You seem to be refuse to or be incapable of taking on board that the Tories knowingly do this on a daily basis at Westminster and compare this to Holyrood. 

No it's not OK, but technically that's the way it is. All of the issues of all the people in this debate are getting off on technicalities. It is all wrong. Supporting ministers in Holyrood getting off on technicalities because it happens in Westminster is wrong too. I want to see them all gone. Before Scotland goes independent, I want the country to have leaders with integrity. 

Hamilton's judgement is based on redacted information (quite how that can be allowed beggars belief) and in his words "an incomplete narrative". This who fiasco has been a waste of public money.

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17 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I mean, if you say so! H2 has decreed, therefore it is so :lol:

 

I guess that sums up!

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, H2 said:

No it's not OK, but technically that's the way it is. All of the issues of all the people in this debate are getting off on technicalities. It is all wrong. Supporting ministers in Holyrood getting off on technicalities because it happens in Westminster is wrong too. I want to see them all gone. Before Scotland goes independent, I want the country to have leaders with integrity. 

Hamilton's judgement is based on redacted information (quite how that can be allowed beggars belief) and in his words "an incomplete narrative". This who fiasco has been a waste of public money.

I think it’s more important to have leaders with integrity after independence, if we have to get our hands dirty to get there then so be it. 
It’s definitely been a waste of taxpayers money but it wasn’t the Scottish government that took a case to court with no evidence. 
The semantics of the inner workings concerning claims against current or past MSPs needs to be cleared up. 

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Enzo Chiefo
17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think it’s more important to have leaders with integrity after independence, if we have to get our hands dirty to get there then so be it. 
It’s definitely been a waste of taxpayers money but it wasn’t the Scottish government that took a case to court with no evidence. 
The semantics of the inner workings concerning claims against current or past MSPs needs to be cleared up. 

The Scot Gov challenged , in court, the judicial review brought by Salmond.  They knew they would lose and it cost the taxpayer north of £500k.  The Scot Gov investigation into the allegations against Salmond was deemed to be unlawful and "tainted by apparent bias".  No-one has taken responsibility,  resigned or been fired. 

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Pasquale for King
44 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The Scot Gov challenged , in court, the judicial review brought by Salmond.  They knew they would lose and it cost the taxpayer north of £500k.  The Scot Gov investigation into the allegations against Salmond was deemed to be unlawful and "tainted by apparent bias".  No-one has taken responsibility,  resigned or been fired. 

Have I disputed this? Leslie Evans should definitely have been sacked. 

Does anyone at Westminster take responsibility and resign for anything? Why is the SG held up to higher standards than Westminster? 

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jambos are go!
10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Have I disputed this? Leslie Evans should definitely have been sacked. 

Does anyone at Westminster take responsibility and resign for anything? Why is the SG held up to higher standards than Westminster? 

Did Douglas Ross, David Davis, Theresa May, Tony Blair and Nikki Morgan not resign? Even Dominic Cummings was emptied.

 

 

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, jambos are go! said:

Did Douglas Ross, David Davis, Theresa May, Tony Blair and Nikki Morgan not resign? Even Dominic Cummings was emptied.

 

 

Ross resigned because he wanted too, he hadn’t done anything wrong. He’s now going to be an MP and an MSP. 
Cameron left because of trouble he caused with Brexit, May left because she was shit. Blair again left to make more money, as Cameron has. Morgan resigned from being an MP to the easier life of the House of Lords. None of them left due to scandals. 
 

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19 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ross resigned because he wanted too, he hadn’t done anything wrong. He’s now going to be an MP and an MSP. 
Cameron left because of trouble he caused with Brexit, May left because she was shit. Blair again left to make more money, as Cameron has. Morgan resigned from being an MP to the easier life of the House of Lords. None of them left due to scandals. 
 

 

I'm astounded anyone is willing to try and compare recent events in Scotland to standards in Westminster. Pick your battles, lads...

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40 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

I'm astounded anyone is willing to try and compare recent events in Scotland to standards in Westminster. Pick your battles, lads...

 

Ehm, long before the current conspiracy theories and media narratives to benefit unionism, ratings and paper sales got pushed up here, a problem had long developed in the current government in Westminster—zero accountability and zero responsibility for misdeeds. Zero resignations, zero consequences. 1/8 of a million Covid deaths, most avoidable, stands out with tens of billions wasted/funnelled to Tory donors, just to scratch the surface.

 

What in the actual Tony Blair has got to do with anything, or even Theresa May, I'm not sure anyone has any idea but you. So do you wish to explain (speaking of picking your battles)?

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Footballfirst

 

What's the betting on the next step in his revenge mission?  A return to politics? Launch of a new party? New allegations against the SG?

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5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

What's the betting on the next step in his revenge mission?  A return to politics? Launch of a new party? New allegations against the SG?

Hope so, will be the final nail in his political coffin

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3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The Scot Gov challenged , in court, the judicial review brought by Salmond.  They knew they would lose and it cost the taxpayer north of £500k.  The Scot Gov investigation into the allegations against Salmond was deemed to be unlawful and "tainted by apparent bias".  No-one has taken responsibility,  resigned or been fired. 

 

The UK Gov gave contacts worth hundreds of millions to Matt Hancock's mates, knowing full well they were not the best equipped to deliver the vital safety equipment needed for coping with the pandemic. UK courts rule that he acted unlawfully and that his awarding of said contracts were plagued by a lack of transparency, cronyism and waste. Undoubtedly this also cost lives. Nobody as taken responsibility, resigned or been fired.

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3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Image

 

 

 

 

What a ****head. How is this persuing a super majority? All he is doing is trying to nab SNP voters, giving the opposition a better chance of winning seats. Arse.

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