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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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Malinga the Swinga
24 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

This appeared on FB a little under an hour ago...

 

Words damage. Actions hurt. Bullying kills.
At no time is bullying ok at any age and within any organisation.
I will say tonight. Anyone that supports the latest revelations please remove yourself from my page quietly.
A hard working , caring individual being pushed to her limit.
Princess Diana. Mary queen of Scots. Anyone threatening the high and mighty establishment is subject to this kind of behaviour.
My family and i are in bits tonight.
I am trying so hard to stay professional here but I cannot stand this.
The man that helped her reach her dream has helped destroy her.
I hope he can sleep at night and all his unionist chums
 

She lied. No one made her. 

Comparing NS to Princess Diana and Mary Queen of Scots. Can't remember either of them plotting to have a former colleague jailed for rape. 

In trouble, running out of friends and playing the poor little girl card. 

That statement by her sister is an embarrassment. 

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3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

She lied. No one made her. 

Comparing NS to Princess Diana and Mary Queen of Scots. Can't remember either of them plotting to have a former colleague jailed for rape. 

In trouble, running out of friends and playing the poor little girl card. 

That statement by her sister is an embarrassment. 

 

I can understand her sister showing loyalty but the whole thing is more than cringeworthy. 

 

What is even more cringeworthy is Sturgeon has now released a statement saying that it's out of order demanding a VONC during a pandemic.

Hmmm, but it's perfectly OK to launch and finance an Indyref task force during a pandemic, and cast aspersions on the integrity of the Salmond trial jurors during a Covid briefing?

The woman has no shame.

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23 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

It seems real enough. BTW, it's not from NS, but her sister

If it is from her sister its interesting that she says "helped destroy her"

 

Past tense 

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Malinga the Swinga
Just now, JDK2020 said:

 

I can understand her sister showing loyalty but the whole thing is more than cringeworthy. 

 

What is even more cringeworthy is Sturgeon has now released a statement saying that it's out of order demanding a VONC during a pandemic.

Hmmm, but it's perfectly OK to launch and finance an Indyref task force during a pandemic, and cast aspersions on the integrity of the Salmond trial jurors during a Covid briefing?

The woman has no shame.

Also appears okay to demand Scottish elections carry on in May during pandemic. No other party can campaign during this pandemic whilst SNP have Party Political Broadcast every weekday on TV. 

 

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1 hour ago, Barack said:

Here's a question, hypothetical as it is. Even the non-SNP crew can pitch in...as I'm nice that way.

 

Say Sturgeon went(I don't think she will, but I'm not that involved with it all), who would you seriously consider as a "capable" replacement?

 

Indy supporters I appreciate aren't tied to the individual. More the vessel which to lead the party to independence. But surely, you don't want an utter spangle put in place, that might even see polling dip back down & put a referendum in the balance? Who're the front runners? Would Mhairi Black drop her cushy Westminster salary & benefits for a shot, for instance? Would Blackford...?!

 

Non-Indy's: Is there anyone you'd think about at least listening to what a new leader had to say? Or is it the case, every SNP member is tainted?

Derek Mackay he’s been very quiet lately and I suspect he’s waiting to pounce. 

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Captain Sausage
4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The SNP statement re the VONC.

 

Image


Not sure I fully understand the SNP statement. 
 

Didn’t they back a Corbyn led VONC in Theresa May in 2019? As per their statement, wasn’t that ‘for the public to decide who they want to govern’ the UK? Given there’d been a general election 18 months previous, hadn’t that already been done? That bit feels rather hypocritical from the SNP...

 

Also, stating a VONC during a pandemic is ‘utterly irresponsible’ while also referring to the upcoming campaign trail offers little coherence. Why is one aspect of a democratic society irresponsible, but another is not? Is it because one is in the interests of the SNP and one is not?

 

Before the inevitable flak I receive, I’d like to add that I’m just sick of all politicians. They’re all the same; lying, backstabbing, do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do, self serving *****. 

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Famous 1874

Sturgeon is 100% done, no chance she survives tomorrow. SNP have to think carefully about who they appoint next, someone like an Angus Robertson type would really finish them off. Mhairi Black, Ian Blackford are both also hopeless and get their arses handed to them in Westminster every week. 
 

I assume there will be some sort of contingency plan in place, probably getting accelerated right now. 

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23 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

I can understand her sister showing loyalty but the whole thing is more than cringeworthy. 

 

What is even more cringeworthy is Sturgeon has now released a statement saying that it's out of order demanding a VONC during a pandemic.

Hmmm, but it's perfectly OK to launch and finance an Indyref task force during a pandemic, and cast aspersions on the integrity of the Salmond trial jurors during a Covid briefing?

The woman has no shame.

 

It was okay send untested people to care homes killing thousands during a pandemic. 

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We're also having an election during a pandemic. Which means often vulnerable older people that do the election being indoors for 17 hours. 

 

Because we must have a vote on another referendum. Before the Covid inquiry findings. 

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Footballfirst
1 minute ago, weehammy said:

Not sure what you’re banging on about here. It matters not a jot if Salmond behaved like a sex pest.
The issues are that the FM seems to have overseen a costly legal case despite being told it was unwinnable and may have misled parliament about the timing and nature of relevant meetings on the Salmond case.

I'm well aware of that, but I was responding to another poster suggesting that my words describing AS could be viewed as defamation, when in fact I was only repeating the words used by his own QC.

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This is going to be liar Sturgeon's mantra tomorrow - let the Scoattash peepul decide in May which translates as let my cult whitewash these sins away at the ballot box. Shameless tyrant.

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Weakened Offender
9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The pandemic is well under control.

 

I could take over and run it. 

 

Who's got it well under control? 

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Malinga the Swinga
48 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Even an inept Crown Office would probably argue that the complainers' testimonies were evidence of sexual offences having been committed. 

Even the complainers testimony that was shown to be a made up fantasy that could never have happened, that is evidence is it? 

The Crown Office knew it was made up but pursued a guilty verdict on that charge. They lied to attempt to convict someone of a serious charge. Let that sink in, the Crown Office, for some reason, tried to imprison someone who they knew was innocent. 

If you can't trust the Crown Office, then the very foundations of the Justice system start to crumble. 

All because of a vendetta between an ego maniac and the Murrells. 

They risk destroying it all because they thought if they chucked enough mud, some, just one piece even, would stick, but they failed,and now, the stitch up threatens to bring their empire crashing down. 

They shouldn't blame anyone but themselves but they will sure as hell try. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm well aware of that, but I was responding to another poster suggesting that my words describing AS could be viewed as defamation, when in fact I was only repeating the words used by his own QC.

 

You used different words. You said "in sexual offences". 

 

"Could be seen as a 'sex pest'" is very different. 

 

Your words imply guilt of sexual offences. Salmond was found not guilty. In fact some very strong defences were made to some very poor evidence. 

Edited by Mikey1874
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Radio Ga Ga
1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Who's got it well under control? 

The UK Government by have the foresight to pre-order the vaccines, EU in catch up mode

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Footballfirst
1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Even the complainers testimony that was shown to be a made up fantasy that could never have happened, that is evidence is it? 

The Crown Office knew it was made up but pursued a guilty verdict on that charge. They lied to attempt to convict someone of a serious charge. Let that sink in, the Crown Office, for some reason, tried to imprison someone who they knew was innocent. 

If you can't trust the Crown Office, then the very foundations of the Justice system start to crumble. 

All because of a vendetta between an ego maniac and the Murrells. 

They risk destroying it all because they thought if they chucked enough mud, some, just one piece even, would stick, but they failed,and now, the stitch up threatens to bring their empire crashing down. 

They shouldn't blame anyone but themselves but they will sure as hell try. 

 

Salmond was found not guilty by a majority verdict, so at least one person thought he was guilty as charged.

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4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Salmond was found not guilty by a majority verdict, so at least one person thought he was guilty as charged.

Grounds for appeal?

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Maroon Sailor
12 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Sturgeon is 100% done, no chance she survives tomorrow.

 

I'm not so sure. She'll have something up her sleeve to save her skin.

 

 

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Footballfirst
2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You used different words. You said "in sexual offences". 

 

"Could be seen as a 'sex pest'" is very different. 

 

Your words imply guilt of sexual offences. Salmond was found not guilty. In fact some very strong defences were made to some very poor evidence. 

In that paragraph, I was speaking in general terms about sexual offences, not what AS was alleged to have done.  As I said in an earlier post, he was found not guilty by majority verdict, so at least one person believed the complainers.

 

Here is a bit more of what Gordon Jackson said on a video.

What did Gordon Jackson QC say in the leaked video? 

Gordon Jackson QC was filmed on an Edinburgh-Glasgow train while discussing the high-profile Alex Salmond case. 

He said: 'It's not right but it's not war crimes. 

'That is hardly sexual. Inappropriate, a******e, stupid but not sexual.

'Sex offender register? Not for you.'

Jackson went on to identify two women who accused Salmond of sexual assault, despite strict court orders in place to protect the anonymity of people in reported sex offence cases. 

He is heard saying: 'Unfortunately X and X said it is sexual.  

'We thought eventually people might think she's a flake and not like her.'

Jackson went on to discuss his tactics for discrediting the women who had accused Salmond of assault. 

He said: 'All I need to do is put a smell on her, a smell on her.'

Jackson then discussed his opinions on Salmond in general. 

He said: 'He certainly was, I don't know much about senior politicians, but he was quite a...bully to work with. 

'In a way I don't think Nicola [Sturgeon] is.

'I think he was a nasty person to work for. 

'Historically, that has been the case with some politicians. A nightmare to work for.'

Jackson is then heard possibly saying the words 'sex pest', possibly followed by, 'but he's not charged with that'. 

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Weakened Offender
5 minutes ago, Radio Ga Ga said:

The UK Government by have the foresight to pre-order the vaccines, EU in catch up mode

 

Quite a lot of dead people's relatives would argue that. 

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JudyJudyJudy
16 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Not sure what you’re banging on about here. It matters not a jot if Salmond behaved like a sex pest.
The issues are that the FM seems to have overseen a costly legal case despite being told it was unwinnable and may have misled parliament about the timing and nature of relevant meetings on the Salmond case.

Yep 👍 it’s all very sordid . She and others seem to have actively pursued the case against him . Despite them being told it wouldn’t stand up in court . That’s not impartial is it ? 

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Not guilty of criminal charges (beyond a reasonable doubt). 

 

As ever in sexual offences, the only people present are normally the alleged assailant and the alleged victim.  If there is no evidence of violence then it becomes difficult to prove. He said, she said. 

He was found not guilty . End of . He is innocent of all charges no matter what the chattering classes may say it whisper . 

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Malinga the Swinga
1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

Salmond was found not guilty by a majority verdict, so at least one person thought he was guilty as charged.

By the testimony given in court, the complainent was 100% proven to be lying. 

The Crown Office knew this but chose to bury this complaint amongst others hoping it would slip by unnoticed. Luckily, it did not. 

Matters not a jot if majority verdict. He was released a free man, not convicted of any charge, despite the best attempts of his former colleagues and their supporters,who continue to flail about like turtles on their backs, desperate to convince someone, anyone of his guilt. 

 

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Radio Ga Ga
Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

Quite a lot of dead people's relatives would argue that. 

Can't disagree, the amount of Care Home deaths have especially have been a disgrace and so many were preventable, but that conversation is for another day

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Footballfirst
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Yep 👍 it’s all very sordid . She and others seem to have actively pursued the case against him . Despite them being told it wouldn’t stand up in court . That’s not impartial is it ? 

He was found not guilty . End of . He is innocent of all charges no matter what the chattering classes may say it whisper . 

Pedant point: He was found "Not Proven" on one charge of "Sexual assault with attempt to rape".  It has the same effective result as a "not guilty" verdict, but is not the same.

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1 hour ago, JDK2020 said:

 

It seems real enough. BTW, it's not from NS, but her sister


The same sister that called her a control freak? 

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Famous 1874
10 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I'm not so sure. She'll have something up her sleeve to save her skin.

 

 

Usually wrangles out of it but this time is different I think 

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Malinga the Swinga
6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Pedant point: He was found "Not Proven" on one charge of "Sexual assault with attempt to rape".  It has the same effective result as a "not guilty" verdict, but is not the same.

Main point - He wasn't found guilty. Don't matter how much you spin it, doesn't matter how much you wish it wasn't true, he wasn't found guilty. 

Accused, tried and freed without a blemish or stain on his record. 

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JudyJudyJudy
11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Pedant point: He was found "Not Proven" on one charge of "Sexual assault with attempt to rape".  It has the same effective result as a "not guilty" verdict, but is not the same.

Sorry didn’t know one of the charges was “ not proven “ I didn’t pay much attention to the farcical case hence not knowing this 

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Malinga the Swinga
16 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I'm not so sure. She'll have something up her sleeve to save her skin.

 

 

Even if it involves sacrificing political allies, she will lie and say whatever she needs to. It's what politicians do. 

 

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Footballfirst
1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Main point - He wasn't found guilty. Don't matter how much you spin it, doesn't matter how much you wish it wasn't true, he wasn't found guilty. 

Accused, tried and freed without a blemish or stain on his record. 

I'm well aware of that, nor do I dispute it. 

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2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm well aware of that, nor do I dispute it. 


This is why I don’t like the not having a “not guilty” option as “not proven” just makes out that he could be guilty still but there wasn’t enough evidence. Jury should be allowed to decide if someone is guilty, not guilty or not proven imo

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45 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:


Not sure I fully understand the SNP statement. 
 

Didn’t they back a Corbyn led VONC in Theresa May in 2019? As per their statement, wasn’t that ‘for the public to decide who they want to govern’ the UK? Given there’d been a general election 18 months previous, hadn’t that already been done? That bit feels rather hypocritical from the SNP...

 

Also, stating a VONC during a pandemic is ‘utterly irresponsible’ while also referring to the upcoming campaign trail offers little coherence. Why is one aspect of a democratic society irresponsible, but another is not? Is it because one is in the interests of the SNP and one is not?

 

Before the inevitable flak I receive, I’d like to add that I’m just sick of all politicians. They’re all the same; lying, backstabbing, do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do, self serving *****. 

 

None of the SNP's statements have to make sense, their voters will lap up any old pish as long as there's a slur - real or implied - aimed at somebody or other.

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Cardiff Hearts

From afar , it looks as if she is on the ropes. The latest disclosures are highly damning . No doubt, she will come out fighting tomorrow - playing the moral crusader card. But she has lost credibility and her reputation in tatters. 
 

Will she do the honourable thing, for her party and for her country? No chance, thereby knocking back the independence cause for at least a generation. 
 

Sad - she definitely had something about her but her latter track record and conduct will mean history judges her ultimately as a failure.

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Footballfirst
1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:


This is why I don’t like the not having a “not guilty” option as “not proven” just makes out that he could be guilty still but there wasn’t enough evidence. Jury should be allowed to decide if someone is guilty, not guilty or not proven imo

I don't mind the "not proven" verdict, but it is pointless in the way that used with its equivalence to "not guilty". 

 

However If there was some sort of statute of limitation say for a year or two, when a case could be revived if new evidence came to light, then I could see its value.  Obviously, it would need a very high bar for such a retrial to take place, probably with a judge making a ruling that the new evidence, had it been available to the original jury, could have had a bearing on the verdict.

 

The sort of cases I think could fall into such a scenario might be where witnesses were threatened by representatives of the accused prior to the original trial, so were not able to give their account of what happened.

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Roxy Hearts

I loathe unionists with a passion as they support hypocrites. Scotland needs to see beyond Sturgeon and Salmond to gain our self governance but if people can't, then they have brought themselves down to the level they deserve. Scotland isn't the SNP. 

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Maroon Sailor
19 minutes ago, Cardiff Hearts said:

Will she do the honourable thing, for her party and for her country? No chance

 

And that is her in a nutshell

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It's hilarious to see people on here still performing mental gymnastics over Salmond's "guilt".

The fact is, it's over, he was found not guilty (OK, with one not proven) off all charges. 

A jury, majority women, refused to believe the combined testimony of all these women and the guy walked free.

 

What is even more hilarious is the thought that most of those who will still not accept that fact were actually thrilled when he did walk free, seeing it at the time as a win for their side.

Now that he has found out Wee Nippy tried to stitch him up and he's clearly  looking for revenge, they've done a full about-turn and want him strung up.

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1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Depends what mean by  evidence.

 

Accusations is more accurately describing the situation.

 

If someone prominent used your words though they would be facing court action. Defamation at least. 

How can it be defamation if Salmond admitted his behaviour could have been considered inappropriate ? 

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Anas Sarwar has my vote in May. I can see him bringing Scottish Labour back to respectability. I still support Johnson nationally for now.

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Konrad von Carstein
5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I loathe unionists with a passion as they support hypocrites. Scotland needs to see beyond Sturgeon and Salmond to gain our self governance but if people can't, then they have brought themselves down to the level they deserve. Scotland isn't the SNP. 

 

I will never understand why some Scottish people can profess a preference for us being tied to the  Westminster system and want to remain beholden to it especially when for some it seems all they have is a hatred of  Sturgeon, Salmond and the SNP at various periods of history instead of robustly putting the case for staying in the "union" 

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56 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I'm not so sure. She'll have something up her sleeve to save her skin.

 

 

Nah all her allies have jumped ship

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coconut doug
2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Salmond is a sleazeball, even by the admission by his own QC, who described his conduct as "inappropriate", although not criminal.

 

NS will defend her actions by arguing that she was only trying to to do her best for the complainers. Also that none of this would have happened if AS hadn't acted inappropriately towards women.

 

What is it that Salmond has done that makes you say he is a sleazeball?

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Roxy Hearts
4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

I will never understand why some Scottish people can profess a preference for us being tied to the  Westminster system and want to remain beholden to it especially when for some it seems all they have is a hatred of  Sturgeon, Salmond and the SNP at various periods of history instead of robustly putting the case for staying in the "union" 

I don't understand how people can vote for Johnson, Ross, Davidson, Sarwar, Baillie, Rennie, Gove, Starmer and the rest of the anti Scottish reprobates. Absolutely hate them and their demeaning behaviour. We are supposed to equal partners in this so called union. 

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