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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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2 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Is it financed by the SNP or taxpayer funded?

I’d like to know who is finances it too 

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The Mighty Thor
3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I’d like to know who is finances it too 

Why not write to them to ask for that information?

 

It would put your mind at rest.

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SuperstarSteve

Sturgeon is losing supporters everytime she opens her mouth. I was shocked to find out The man who wrote the little blue book on independence. Him and his family no longer support or believe she can deliver it. 
 

 

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18 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Why not write to them to ask for that information?

 

It would put your mind at rest.

My minds not in any turmoil about it actually ! It was just a Gentle enquiry 

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Let us know what you find

No that’s ok I’m washing my hair today 

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32 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Sturgeon is losing supporters everytime she opens her mouth. I was shocked to find out The man who wrote the little blue book on independence. Him and his family no longer support or believe she can deliver it. 
 

 

The snp lost my vote a long time ago and personally I'm starting to think Sturgeon is content being first minister within the confines of devolution. She knows that the SNP is the biggest party in Scotland and they will continue to be in government, whether that is in the form as majority, minority, coalition or power share as the largest party. 

 

She doesn't need to convince me about Independence, as I always have and always would vote for it regardless of what I think of the SNP because for me it is about democracy & self governance but I haven't seen anything that she can convince those that are undecided or even currently against. 

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26 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The snp lost my vote a long time ago and personally I'm starting to think Sturgeon is content being first minister within the confines of devolution. She knows that the SNP is the biggest party in Scotland and they will continue to be in government, whether that is in the form as majority, minority, coalition or power share as the largest party. 

 

She doesn't need to convince me about Independence, as I always have and always would vote for it regardless of what I think of the SNP because for me it is about democracy & self governance but I haven't seen anything that she can convince those that are undecided or even currently against. 


For a pro independence supporter Cruyff I think you’ve summed it up perfectly why it won’t happen. If she can’t get the backing of independence supporters like yourself why the **** would middle ground people be convinced. 

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SuperstarSteve
29 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The snp lost my vote a long time ago and personally I'm starting to think Sturgeon is content being first minister within the confines of devolution. She knows that the SNP is the biggest party in Scotland and they will continue to be in government, whether that is in the form as majority, minority, coalition or power share as the largest party. 

 

She doesn't need to convince me about Independence, as I always have and always would vote for it regardless of what I think of the SNP because for me it is about democracy & self governance but I haven't seen anything that she can convince those that are undecided or even currently against. 

I agree with that. Independence will still be what they want regardless if SNP can deliver it or not. I’ll certainly continue to vote SNP.

 

As far as am aware that family switched their support to salmond’s Alba party, my mother is contemplating doing the same and I’ve no idea wether that helps or disadvantages the argument for independence but the SNP is losing loyal supporters. 

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31 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

I agree with that. Independence will still be what they want regardless if SNP can deliver it or not. I’ll certainly continue to vote SNP.

 

As far as am aware that family switched their support to salmond’s Alba party, my mother is contemplating doing the same and I’ve no idea wether that helps or disadvantages the argument for independence but the SNP is losing loyal supporters. 

Nicola Sturgeon isn't daft and I think she knows people don't want a referendum just now IMO. 

 

What gets me is the insulting way unionist parties treat us and the absolute diabolical current Westminster Government. If Scots at some point aren't going to be swayed by independence they never will! Feels a little like Stockholm Syndrome for some.

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23 minutes ago, Dazo said:


For a pro independence supporter Cruyff I think you’ve summed it up perfectly why it won’t happen. If she can’t get the backing of independence supporters like yourself why the **** would middle ground people be convinced. 

Folk don't have to support the SNP to support Independence. There will be Neo-Conservatives, Liberals, Socialists etc.. out there that support Independence. 

 

The SNP need to make the case for Independence, not from their own political perspective because Independence really has **** all to do with the SNP once it happens. They are merely a political party and Scotland is a Country that may be shaped by different political approaches in the future.

 

They cannot tell you for example, how much tax you will pay, how much they will need to borrow annually, what the rate of VAT will be, how high or low inflation will be because that's simply impossible. Those decisions are dependent of the Government in power, their policies and how that economy performs. 

 

Their plan has to be about putting into place the systems that a Country needs, the Infrastructure, such as Currency, Defence, Social Systems, Revenue and Customs, a Civil Service etc.. which need to exist regardless of political ideology.

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7 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Folk don't have to support the SNP to support Independence. There will be Neo-Conservatives, Liberals, Socialists etc.. out there that support Independence. 

 

The SNP need to make the case for Independence, not from their own political perspective because Independence really has **** all to do with the SNP once it happens. They are merely a political party and Scotland is a Country that may be shaped by different political approaches in the future.

 

They cannot tell you for example, how much tax you will pay, how much they will need to borrow annually, what the rate of VAT will be, how high or low inflation will be because that's simply impossible. Those decisions are dependent of the Government in power, their policies and how that economy performs. 

 

Their plan has to be about putting into place the systems that a Country needs, the Infrastructure, such as Currency, Defence, Social Systems, Revenue and Customs, a Civil Service etc.. which need to exist regardless of political ideology.

It's difficult telling that to people who won't listen! Good post 👍

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43 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Folk don't have to support the SNP to support Independence. There will be Neo-Conservatives, Liberals, Socialists etc.. out there that support Independence. 

 

The SNP need to make the case for Independence, not from their own political perspective because Independence really has **** all to do with the SNP once it happens. They are merely a political party and Scotland is a Country that may be shaped by different political approaches in the future.

 

They cannot tell you for example, how much tax you will pay, how much they will need to borrow annually, what the rate of VAT will be, how high or low inflation will be because that's simply impossible. Those decisions are dependent of the Government in power, their policies and how that economy performs. 

 

Their plan has to be about putting into place the systems that a Country needs, the Infrastructure, such as Currency, Defence, Social Systems, Revenue and Customs, a Civil Service etc.. which need to exist regardless of political ideology.

 

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's difficult telling that to people who won't listen! Good post 👍

 

I'm listening but I cannot go along with taking an 'it will be alright on the night' approach to something so important.

 

If Scotland was ever to become independent the SNP is not going to just walk away; it will still be a political party and at the very least will be the main player in the infrastructure and bureaucratic planning  required to be in place come day one of the new country.  It may rebrand itself and give itself a new name, but it will still have roughly the same policies as it does now except for demanding independence, and in the main the same group of SNP MSPs will be there and looking to be elected. Most of it's supporters are not just going to abandon ship and vote for other parties, at least initially.  

 

SNP has a duty to explain fully the implications for all citizens of Scotland if it's no.1 aim is to happen, and show what it would do if it was elected into Government. To say it is impossible hardly inspires confidence. It could make a range of projections from best to worst case scenario and state what it would do if it was to be the Government in power; that is what political parties do as part of the bid for power and that the party driving forward the aim of independence is clearly incapable of doing this shows how inept and narrow it's vision is. I could see that, if there ever was to be a yes vote, with this crowd in charge on day one they would celebrate and on day two they would be saying 'help, what on earth have we let ourselves in for'. 

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manaliveits105

and the currency will be the Murrell linked to the B of E in the country we want a border with or failing that Pete's offshore account 

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27 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

and the currency will be the Murrell linked to the B of E in the country we want a border with or failing that Pete's offshore account 

 

is-it-aye-.jpg

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8 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

 

I'm listening but I cannot go along with taking an 'it will be alright on the night' approach to something so important.

 

If Scotland was ever to become independent the SNP is not going to just walk away; it will still be a political party and at the very least will be the main player in the infrastructure and bureaucratic planning  required to be in place come day one of the new country.  It may rebrand itself and give itself a new name, but it will still have roughly the same policies as it does now except for demanding independence, and in the main the same group of SNP MSPs will be there and looking to be elected. Most of it's supporters are not just going to abandon ship and vote for other parties, at least initially.  

 

SNP has a duty to explain fully the implications for all citizens of Scotland if it's no.1 aim is to happen, and show what it would do if it was elected into Government. To say it is impossible hardly inspires confidence. It could make a range of projections from best to worst case scenario and state what it would do if it was to be the Government in power; that is what political parties do as part of the bid for power and that the party driving forward the aim of independence is clearly incapable of doing this shows how inept and narrow it's vision is. I could see that, if there ever was to be a yes vote, with this crowd in charge on day one they would celebrate and on day two they would be saying 'help, what on earth have we let ourselves in for'. 

 

That's a ridiculous expectation which can't ever be met.

 

Day 1, talks begin.

 

It would be years before the process was complete and the intervening period would involve conversation about the best way to set up Scotland for future generations.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

 

I'm listening but I cannot go along with taking an 'it will be alright on the night' approach to something so important.

 

If Scotland was ever to become independent the SNP is not going to just walk away; it will still be a political party and at the very least will be the main player in the infrastructure and bureaucratic planning  required to be in place come day one of the new country.  It may rebrand itself and give itself a new name, but it will still have roughly the same policies as it does now except for demanding independence, and in the main the same group of SNP MSPs will be there and looking to be elected. Most of it's supporters are not just going to abandon ship and vote for other parties, at least initially.  

 

SNP has a duty to explain fully the implications for all citizens of Scotland if it's no.1 aim is to happen, and show what it would do if it was elected into Government. To say it is impossible hardly inspires confidence. It could make a range of projections from best to worst case scenario and state what it would do if it was to be the Government in power; that is what political parties do as part of the bid for power and that the party driving forward the aim of independence is clearly incapable of doing this shows how inept and narrow it's vision is. I could see that, if there ever was to be a yes vote, with this crowd in charge on day one they would celebrate and on day two they would be saying 'help, what on earth have we let ourselves in for'. 

They don’t even have the confidence to use the powers they already have. Those balloons would struggle to run Merchy Hearts on match day, let alone an independent Scotland. 

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43 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

and the currency will be the Murrell linked to the B of E in the country we want a border with or failing that Pete's offshore account 

You really are getting more and more ridiculous by the day. Why do you bother? Do you think anyone reads your posts and thinks ‘wow, what an interesting/funny point he’s raised’?

 

I wouldn’t waste my time 

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13 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

 

I'm listening but I cannot go along with taking an 'it will be alright on the night' approach to something so important.

 

If Scotland was ever to become independent the SNP is not going to just walk away; it will still be a political party and at the very least will be the main player in the infrastructure and bureaucratic planning  required to be in place come day one of the new country.  It may rebrand itself and give itself a new name, but it will still have roughly the same policies as it does now except for demanding independence, and in the main the same group of SNP MSPs will be there and looking to be elected. Most of it's supporters are not just going to abandon ship and vote for other parties, at least initially.  

 

SNP has a duty to explain fully the implications for all citizens of Scotland if it's no.1 aim is to happen, and show what it would do if it was elected into Government. To say it is impossible hardly inspires confidence. It could make a range of projections from best to worst case scenario and state what it would do if it was to be the Government in power; that is what political parties do as part of the bid for power and that the party driving forward the aim of independence is clearly incapable of doing this shows how inept and narrow it's vision is. I could see that, if there ever was to be a yes vote, with this crowd in charge on day one they would celebrate and on day two they would be saying 'help, what on earth have we let ourselves in for'. 

The main stumbling block is currency. If they cannot sort that out then they cannot move forward with anything. 

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manaliveits105
8 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

You really are getting more and more ridiculous by the day. Why do you bother? Do you think anyone reads your posts and thinks ‘wow, what an interesting/funny point he’s raised’?

 

I wouldn’t waste my time 

but you did 

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If you think that Brexit has been a challenge just imagine what a Scexit would look like?  

 

Anyway hypothetical nonsense as opposed to the worst A&E waiting times on record. There's that pesky day job stuff again.

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Just now, pablo said:

If you think that Brexit has been a challenge just imagine what a Scexit would look like?  

 

Anyway hypothetical nonsense as opposed to the worst A&E waiting times on record. There's that pesky day job stuff again.

 

Why would you assume we'd be as thick as Westminster's been about brexit?

Surely lessons have been learned, and without the likes of Rees Mogg making his mates rich as their main priority there would be a bit more good faith around the whole thing and a bit less self harm

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Just now, Smithee said:

 

Why would you assume we'd be as thick as Westminster's been about brexit?

Surely lessons have been learned, and without the likes of Rees Mogg making his mates rich as their main priority there would be a bit more good faith around the whole thing and a bit less self harm

 

Because I'd imagine that leaving a 50 year old trade agreement is slightly less complicated than splitting apart a 300 hundred year old country? And then leaving our negotiations to a bunch of chancers who can't even manage to buy some ferries.

 

 

 

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Konrad von Carstein
11 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Because I'd imagine that leaving a 50 year old trade agreement is slightly less complicated than splitting apart a 300 hundred year old country? And then leaving our negotiations to a bunch of chancers who can't even manage to buy some ferries.

 

 

 

Maybe they should have used the ferry company hired by the UK Gov... Ken the one that had zero ferries? :lol:

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39 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's a ridiculous expectation which can't ever be met.

 

Day 1, talks begin.

 

It would be years before the process was complete and the intervening period would involve conversation about the best way to set up Scotland for future generations.

 

 

 

....but it is an expectation that a lot of people have and Swinney has admitted that the first 10 years at least of an independent Scotland would be financially challenging. For independence to have any chance the SNP will have to convince a lot of people that they are not going to be financially worse off because when push comes to shove this is a high priority for many.

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40 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

....but it is an expectation that a lot of people have and Swinney has admitted that the first 10 years at least of an independent Scotland would be financially challenging. For independence to have any chance the SNP will have to convince a lot of people that they are not going to be financially worse off because when push comes to shove this is a high priority for many.

Yep 

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39 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

....but it is an expectation that a lot of people have and Swinney has admitted that the first 10 years at least of an independent Scotland would be financially challenging. For independence to have any chance the SNP will have to convince a lot of people that they are not going to be financially worse off because when push comes to shove this is a high priority for many.

 

Swinney's as clueless as the rest of us about what the reality would be, there's no way of knowing the things you want to know.

 

Who honestly thinks that a Westminster government full of disinterested toffs and nasty ****ers that don't care about Scotland is the safest way forward? ****ing mental.

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Konrad von Carstein
29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Swinney's as clueless as the rest of us about what the reality would be, there's no way of knowing the things you want to know.

 

Who honestly thinks that a Westminster government full of disinterested toffs and nasty ****ers that don't care about Scotland is the safest way forward? ****ing mental.

Well put! :cowboy:

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5 hours ago, pablo said:

If you think that Brexit has been a challenge just imagine what a Scexit would look like?  

 

Anyway hypothetical nonsense as opposed to the worst A&E waiting times on record. There's that pesky day job stuff again.

There would have to be a confirmatory referendum following an initial vote on opening talks with the UK govt.

We've evolved and learned from the last 2 referendums.

 

You're right though, if people thought Brexit was complicated and "economically damaging", Scexit would be multiple times worse. 

Scotland's trade with the EU is neither nor there,in the scheme of things, but a border on GB and having to trade with England (far and away our biggest trading partner) on EU terms would be catastrophic. 

 

Can't see an initial vote being affirmative but if it were, the second one would kill the issue for ever.

Bring it on!

 

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Unlike Brexit, where every man & his dog AND even the ‘moderate’ tories said it would be a bloody disaster (you know the ones that Boris sacked) and thus far, its been a parady of a disaster! A disaster wouldnt have been this bad!!!

But somehow (again) Scotland being completely unique on our planet in its ability to govern itself…

 

JUST CANNY DAE IT!!!!!

 

A few gammons on here. Arses twitching lads????

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24 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Unlike Brexit, where every man & his dog AND even the ‘moderate’ tories said it would be a bloody disaster (you know the ones that Boris sacked) and thus far, its been a parady of a disaster! A disaster wouldnt have been this bad!!!

But somehow (again) Scotland being completely unique on our planet in its ability to govern itself…

 

JUST CANNY DAE IT!!!!!

 

A few gammons on here. Arses twitching lads????

What's your definition of disaster and how has this manifested due to brexit.

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16 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Folk don't have to support the SNP to support Independence. There will be Neo-Conservatives, Liberals, Socialists etc.. out there that support Independence. 

 

The SNP need to make the case for Independence, not from their own political perspective because Independence really has **** all to do with the SNP once it happens. They are merely a political party and Scotland is a Country that may be shaped by different political approaches in the future.

 

They cannot tell you for example, how much tax you will pay, how much they will need to borrow annually, what the rate of VAT will be, how high or low inflation will be because that's simply impossible. Those decisions are dependent of the Government in power, their policies and how that economy performs. 

 

Their plan has to be about putting into place the systems that a Country needs, the Infrastructure, such as Currency, Defence, Social Systems, Revenue and Customs, a Civil Service etc.. which need to exist regardless of political ideology.


Maybe you’ve missed my point and you’ve went on a bit if a tangent as I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said.To put it simply the snp are currently the only ones able to bring about independence. Since they are making a dogs dinner of being in government topped up with not getting votes from pro independence supporters then independence is dead in the water. 

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8 hours ago, Ked said:

What's your definition of disaster and how has this manifested due to brexit.

Well lets see…

 

Food companies are struggling to get workers.

 

Farmers leaving produce in the ground to rot because they cant get workers/ cant process/cant ship to supermarkets/EU. 

 

Bureaucracy is forcing small businesses to consider closing (many have). 

 

Empty shelves in Supermarkets.

 

Fishing communities shafted.

 

Shellfish effectively banned to EU. 

 

Huge shortage of HGV drivers.

 

The “Sausage Wars”.

 

The whole can of worms with the Good Friday Agreement.

 

Exports to the EU down across the board (£40 Million in Scotch Whisky alone). 
 

Still half a million EU citizens waiting on “settled status”.

 

On-line shopping from EU has got really expensive due to additional taxes. 

Huge reduction in EU students. 
 

Poverty has risen across the UK since Brexit. 

Price hikes on everything. 
 

Etc.

 

But hey…its all good because we took back control…didnt we????

 

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Konrad von Carstein
10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

There would have to be a confirmatory referendum following an initial vote on opening talks with the UK govt.

We've evolved and learned from the last 2 referendums.

 

You're right though, if people thought Brexit was complicated and "economically damaging", Scexit would be multiple times worse. 

Scotland's trade with the EU is neither nor there,in the scheme of things, but a border on GB and having to trade with England (far and away our biggest trading partner) on EU terms would be catastrophic. 

 

Can't see an initial vote being affirmative but if it were, the second one would kill the issue for ever.

Bring it on!

 

1st two sentences  are your opinion presented as fact.

Third, if as you infer we have "evolved and learned" why would it be multiple times worse?

Second last para see 1 & 2.

Last para yes, let's get things started.

:)

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1 hour ago, Dazo said:


Maybe you’ve missed my point and you’ve went on a bit if a tangent as I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said.To put it simply the snp are currently the only ones able to bring about independence. Since they are making a dogs dinner of being in government topped up with not getting votes from pro independence supporters then independence is dead in the water. 

More people voted for independence parties than unionist in the last election. A real election, not a poll. The SNP are only making a dogs dinner in the eyes of the unionist media and the zealots in Alba. The ALBA ones will, I have to presume, will vote for independence, so independence is certainly not dead in the water. 

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2 hours ago, XB52 said:

More people voted for independence parties than unionist in the last election. A real election, not a poll. The SNP are only making a dogs dinner in the eyes of the unionist media and the zealots in Alba. The ALBA ones will, I have to presume, will vote for independence, so independence is certainly not dead in the water. 


The snp are doing well as a government ? 
 

There are no plans for a referendum, not even talks at uk level about one, independence currently sounds dead in the water to me. 

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Konrad von Carstein
21 minutes ago, Dazo said:


The snp are doing well as a government ? 
 

There are no plans for a referendum, not even talks at uk level about one, independence currently sounds dead in the water to me. 

Are we clear of the pandemic yet?

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19 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Are we clear of the pandemic yet?

Exactly. No matter how many times the SG repeat that the independence campaign will only start for real once the pandemic is fully under control, the unionists and Alba refuse to listen. 

Also the unionists say that, as well as not pushing for independence, the SG never stop going on about it. They can't have it both ways

Edited by XB52
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4 hours ago, Dazo said:


Maybe you’ve missed my point and you’ve went on a bit if a tangent as I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said.To put it simply the snp are currently the only ones able to bring about independence. Since they are making a dogs dinner of being in government topped up with not getting votes from pro independence supporters then independence is dead in the water. 

I wouldn't say it is dead in the water..

 

Scottish Independence is closer now in the last 10-15 years than it has ever been in the last 314 years. That is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. 

 

All it takes is a Referendum to happen and more people to put a cross in the yes box than the no box. That might happen, it might not but I don't think you can ever suggest it is dead in the water while the SNP continue to win elections and polling over the last year has fluctuated quite evenly between yes and no.

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27 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I wouldn't say it is dead in the water..

 

Scottish Independence is closer now in the last 10-15 years than it has ever been in the last 314 years. That is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. 

 

All it takes is a Referendum to happen and more people to put a cross in the yes box than the no box. That might happen, it might not but I don't think you can ever suggest it is dead in the water while the SNP continue to win elections and polling over the last year has fluctuated quite evenly between yes and no.

 

 

I think our first law should be renaming chips to Freedom Fries with a mandatory 5 year sentence for those who don't cheerfully comply. Plus, all businesses must fly a saltire, and only a saltire, and anyone who complains has to have one painted on their car and do border patrol for a week.

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3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I think our first law should be renaming chips to Freedom Fries with a mandatory 5 year sentence for those who don't cheerfully comply. Plus, all businesses must fly a saltire, and only a saltire, and anyone who complains has to have one painted on their car and do border patrol for a week.

:lol: 

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Decent amount coming our way. 

https://www.scotsman.com/business/budget-2021-live-rishi-sunak-delivers-budget-for-a-new-economy-focus-on-the-post-covid-era-inflation-was-31-in-september-3434396

 

Rishi Sunak said, through the Barnett formula, the UK Government’s decisions would increase Scottish Government funding “in each year by an average of £4.6 billion, Welsh Government funding by £2.5 billion, and £1.6 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive”.
The Chancellor told MPs: “This delivers, in real terms, the largest block grants for the devolved administrations since the devolution settlements of 1998.”

 

Edited by Boy Daniel
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The Mighty Thor
8 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:


Decent amount coming our way. 

https://www.scotsman.com/business/budget-2021-live-rishi-sunak-delivers-budget-for-a-new-economy-focus-on-the-post-covid-era-inflation-was-31-in-september-3434396

 

Rishi Sunak said, through the Barnett formula, the UK Government’s decisions would increase Scottish Government funding “in each year by an average of £4.6 billion, Welsh Government funding by £2.5 billion, and £1.6 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive”.
The Chancellor told MPs: “This delivers, in real terms, the largest block grants for the devolved administrations since the devolution settlements of 1998.”

 

decent amount of our money coming our way 👍

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