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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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Unknown user
1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

You did in your hole miss him. :laugh:

 

There isn't much happening in the small hours, his dedication to starting fights in empty rooms was a great watch!

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4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I didn’t realise he had left and come back, I wonder why 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️😂?

You are so far off the mark.

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Just now, Ked said:

I'm surprised you agree with the assumption tbh.

 

 

I disagree with any assumption that Smithee misses Zlatanable.  Smithee's definitely taking the piss when he says that.

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1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

There isn't much happening in the small hours, his dedication to starting fights in empty rooms was a great watch!

 

I know.  :th_Rage2:

 

We'll never see his likes again.  Probably.  :unsure:

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Just now, Smithee said:

 

There isn't much happening in the small hours, his dedication to starting fights in empty rooms was a great watch!

Going by your posts of recent times it's ironic.

As I recall you used to be quite a laid back poster.

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2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I disagree with any assumption that Smithee misses Zlatanable.  Smithee's definitely taking the piss when he says that.

I meant in his assumption that previously I was Z.

No matter.

 

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Just now, Ked said:

I meant in his assumption that previously I was Z.

No matter.

 

 

I wouldn't be hung up on what Smithee assumes.  I'm just laughing at the notion that he misses Zlatanable.

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Anyway, let us all stop banging on about off-topic stuff, and focus on the rise and fall of the SNP, for that is the subject matter of the thread.

 

It's what Zlatanable would have wanted.

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Unknown user
Just now, Ulysses said:

Anyway, let us all stop banging on about off-topic stuff, and focus on the rise and fall of the SNP, for that is the subject matter of the thread.

 

It's what Zlatanable would have wanted.

May he rant in peace

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4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I wouldn't be hung up on what Smithee assumes.  I'm just laughing at the notion that he misses Zlatanable.

I'm not .

Just feel I'm responding to petty point scoring which while amusing is gathering pace.

 

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Pasquale for King
17 minutes ago, Ked said:

You are so far off the mark.

So who were you before, Zlatanable has left the building. 

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Pasquale for King
11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

May he rant in peace

I think he may well have spontaneously combusted when the SNP won the election in May. 

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7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think he may well have spontaneously combusted when the SNP won the election in May. 

 

Is that not why he left?

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7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So who were you before, Zlatanable has left the building. 

I think.because of PMs received and sent that's best left if that's alright.

And that's not to say I was a victim.

It was a while ago and no doubt some posters will recognise me .

 

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Just now, Ked said:

I think.because of PMs received and sent that's best left if that's alright.

And that's not to say I was a victim.

It was a while ago and no doubt some posters will recognise me .

 

Recognise me as time goes on.

 

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I feel like Ked is always about to brake into some sort of poem. There was another poster like that. 

 

Anyways the SNP are shite blah blah blah 😂  

Edited by AlimOzturk
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1 minute ago, Ked said:

Not sure if serious but I thought you and one other might tipple .

 

 

Only two possibilities.  Either I've guessed but I won't say, or else I really haven't a fecking clue.  Either way, I'm keeping quiet.  :thumbsup:

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2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I feel like Ked is always about to brake into some sort of poem. There was another poster like that. 

 

Anyways the SNP are shite blah blah blah 😂  

 

There was, and he's still here under another title.

 

Also, the SNP are shite etc etc but so's everyone else blah blah.

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2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I feel like Ked is always about to brake into some sort of poem. There was another poster like that. 

 

Anyways the SNP are shite blah blah blah 😂  

For the record I dont think the SNP are shite.

There is poor opposition in the Scottish parliament like Westminster.

And it makes for poor governance.

On the question of independence I've too much to say .

GERS isnt an indicator of how we would do.

To say we cant afford ourselves is ridiculous.

To demonize England is a load of shit.

And to be honest it's all minuscule with what we face .

 

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10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Only two possibilities.  Either I've guessed but I won't say, or else I really haven't a fecking clue.  Either way, I'm keeping quiet.  :thumbsup:

😂

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Pasquale for King
23 minutes ago, Ked said:

I think.because of PMs received and sent that's best left if that's alright.

And that's not to say I was a victim.

It was a while ago and no doubt some posters will recognise me .

 

Fair enough. 

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Seymour M Hersh
7 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Thanks for finally agreeing PFI was a Tory initiative. We got there in the end. 

You’re still gutted you don’t know how to use braking / breaking at your age and you’re trying and failing to pull me up on my knowledge of the English language😂

 

’I was in a hurry’. Aye, right. 

 

Jesus christ are you 8 years old? 

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Very rarely come on Kickback and not been on for ages but can’t believe this thread is still on the go 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍 😂

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  • 3 weeks later...
manaliveits105

What an advert for Scottish shipbuilding to the world by the SG though

Im sure many tax payers would have gone along with a more expensive Ferguson build to maintain jobs and promote the reputation of our yards 

Games up the pole now .

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31 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

We can,  just not at a competitive price it would seem.


I understand finance plays a part but surely if we want independence then things like being able to sustain a shipbuilding industry and complete the build of two ferries must be perused despite the dearer cost. 
My way would be support this industry and make it more profitable by gaining experience and building a skilled workforce for the future. Initial profit should be sacrificed for a break even scenario and most importantly get the workers onside from the outset. No strikes, no pay rises until our order books start to look healthy then manageable basic pay with a share of the profits when the orders are fulfilled. 
An engaged workforce in the projects is a healthy workforce as they have an investment to look after and also look forward to seeing good remuneration for their efforts. 

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18 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:


I understand finance plays a part but surely if we want independence then things like being able to sustain a shipbuilding industry and complete the build of two ferries must be perused despite the dearer cost. 
My way would be support this industry and make it more profitable by gaining experience and building a skilled workforce for the future. Initial profit should be sacrificed for a break even scenario and most importantly get the workers onside from the outset. No strikes, no pay rises until our order books start to look healthy then manageable basic pay with a share of the profits when the orders are fulfilled. 
An engaged workforce in the projects is a healthy workforce as they have an investment to look after and also look forward to seeing good remuneration for their efforts. 

 

The article says there were serious issues with ferries they'd built before, and that of the 30+ builders who expressed an interest only 4 were actually up to the job.

 

If it was purely down to cost and it wasn't that much I'd tend to agree but it seems there's more to it than that.

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manaliveits105

How about SG  make changes to the Ferguson’s management team and structure to improve production and timescales to become world class ?

naw a step too far for our one track ponies 

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5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

How about SG  make changes to the Ferguson’s management team and structure to improve production and timescales to become world class ?

naw a step too far for our one track ponies 

 

Aye we'll be world class tomorrow and it'll cost nowt. You'd be the first to whine at the spending needed to build up to a contract, we're talking shipyard money here not renting an extra office.

Bribing the electorate, cynical ploy, blah blah blah

 

You don't think the SNP would love to give a shipbuilding contract to Scottish shipbuilders?

 

Gie yer heid a wobble

 

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14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Aye we'll be world class tomorrow and it'll cost nowt. You'd be the first to whine at the spending needed to build up to a contract, we're talking shipyard money here not renting an extra office.

Bribing the electorate, cynical ploy, blah blah blah

 

You don't think the SNP would love to give a shipbuilding contract to Scottish shipbuilders?

 

Gie yer heid a wobble

 


They own both companies. Ferguson Marine is over 100 years old with a respected heritage. This is all about getting it done much cheaper elsewhere. 

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5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

How about SG  make changes to the Ferguson’s management team and structure to improve production and timescales to become world class ?

naw a step too far for our one track ponies 

Isn't that what they are trying to do with Turnaround specialist Tim Hair?

 

Regardless, SG would look really reckless to award further work to a yard which seems to be struggling to deliver what's already on their plate. 

 

It would be good if there was proper review on how we got here... And not just arse-covering. 

 

Lack of design and build capability in the yard? 

Uncontrolled scope change?

Client expectations different to the contracted requirements? 

 

Dunno, but being honest is essential to avoid procurement foul-ups down the line. 

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15 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:


They own both companies. Ferguson Marine is over 100 years old with a respected heritage. This is all about getting it done much cheaper elsewhere. 

 

And yet from what I've read there were big issues with the last ferries they've built.

 

Shipyards were awarded ratings based on their technical and financial suitability, and Ferguson didn't make the cut. Only 4 out of 30+ did, and that's before the tendering even starts.

 

Major issues with their last two ferries will also likely trump their respected heritage.

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4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

And yet from what I've read there were big issues with the last ferries they've built.

 

Shipyards were awarded ratings based on their technical and financial suitability, and Ferguson didn't make the cut. Only 4 out of 30+ did, and that's before the tendering even starts.

 

Major issues with their last two ferries will also likely trump their respected heritage.


Then why let them put in a tender? They are both nationalised companies. 

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9 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:


Then why let them put in a tender? They are both nationalised companies. 

Good point. But to what extent are SG trying to give Fergusons some autonomy? 

 

A behind-closed-doors chat saying "don't bother, you won't get it", wouldn't look good. 

 

Better let them put in a response and succeed or fail. 

 

Also, this is presumably the pre-qualification stage, to thin the competition down to a much smaller number for the ITT stage, where with detailed priced submissions will be developed. So the procuring agency only has a manageable number of exam papers to mark 

 

Getting booted out at the pre-qualification stage is a bit embarrassing, but they wouldn't tend to spend huge amounts of time or £ on a pre-qualification response. 

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2 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

I don't know much about Opinium / Sky polls in terms of how many are polled etc. but found this interesting:

 

image.png.70d813d690b135a2edb066a74dec8222.png

 

I'm not really surprised by this. I voted yes in 1978, but voted no at the latest referendum, and should there ever be another legal vote I would say no. Most people, as they age, understand what is important and get beyond the dream. Those who don't are idealist rather than practical. I look back on what I thought back when I was a teenager and in my twenties and thirties and can only shake my head. The older you get, the greater perspective of what is important and what life's priorities are. You learn on what side your bread is buttered. It should be the role of any government to smooth the lives of the population, and not to create turmoil and confusion based on ideological pipe dreams. 

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14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

They didn't, only 4 companies are


Sorry not a tender but they put in a bid which shouldn’t have happened if they had no chance. I understand that the Scottish government took ownership in 2019 and have had to deal with challenging circumstances but mishaps like this can be avoided. 

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