Unknown user Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, JackLadd said: That's after 7 years of their fiendish plan to replace 55k nawbags each year with their free laptop and tinternet school wains. SNP are like having Attila and Genghis at the city gates offering you a quick death. Scummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, Smithee said: Scummy ScummyNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 4 hours ago, XB52 said: Latest opinion poll for that nationalist rag the Times has SNP at 52% constituency votes and Greens at 13% on the list. That fall's getting worse😊😊. 4 hours ago, pablo said: You've obviously seen the front page then? Remind us where the poll has support for independence please? Thought not....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, pablo said: Thought not....... Holyrood majority? Well that can't be right, that would be better than now and, as we all know, the SNP are falling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: Holyrood majority? Well that can't be right, that would be better than now and, as we all know, the SNP are falling Not questioning that. Just wondered why @XB52 chose to reference the poll and the newspaper, but chose to omit the bit he doesn't like? Just like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, pablo said: Not questioning that. Just wondered why @XB52 chose to reference the poll and the newspaper, but chose to omit the bit he doesn't like? Just like you. Well this is a thread about the SNP and you showed a national headline about the SNP. I rarely talk about independence opinion polls, they're so flighty, and anyway there's a pretty big one coming tomorrow I hear which will be a lot more definitive. But I am RIGHT up for a vote to see who has the majority, if you're so confident I'm sure you'll welcome the opportunity too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Sturgeon has got the Scottish electorate on a piece of string. She knows as long as she bangs the Indy drum she gets in but won't call for a referendum unless she knows she can win. So she stays in power despite dividing the nation and numerous failings with the day job. Edited May 5, 2021 by Maroon Sailor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, Smithee said: Well this is a thread about the SNP and you showed a national headline about the SNP. I rarely talk about independence opinion polls, they're so flighty, and anyway there's a pretty big one coming tomorrow I hear which will be a lot more definitive. But I am RIGHT up for a vote to see who has the majority, if you're so confident I'm sure you'll welcome the opportunity too. There's no independence poll coming tomorrow and there's no democratic mandate for having a further independence referendum. We've had one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, pablo said: There's no independence poll coming tomorrow and there's no democratic mandate for having a further independence referendum. We've had one. No of course, I should have said opinion poll. But as I say, independence opinion polls themselves are of very limited interest to me given the closeness of the results and the tolerances involved. Not sure why we're having an election tomorrow mind. We've had one. That's how democracy works, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, pablo said: There's no independence poll coming tomorrow and there's no democratic mandate for having a further independence referendum. We've had one. Depends on what you read or listen to. 8 years apart not really that unusual especially when things have changed pretty dramatically with leaving the EU. I’m not abdicating for remain or leave but it’s a pretty big change in circumstance. The assertion that referenda can only happen once in a generation is not backed up by practice elsewhere. For instance, only last year New Caledonia repeated its referendum on independence from France merely two years after the initial poll of 2018. Continued association with Paris won on both occasions. In fact, holding a second referendum after some seven or, in actual fact perhaps more likely, eight years, seems quite reasonable in a democratic society. This would be two full electoral cycles for most states. In addition, Scotland can point to the fundamental change in circumstances brought about by Brexit. The UK as a whole opted to leave the EU with a slim majority of 51.9 to 48.1 per cent. In Scotland a more sizeable majority of 62 to 38 percent expressed itself in favour of remaining. Moreover, Nicola Sturgeon claims that the views from Edinburgh were not represented as fully in the Brexit process as had been agreed with Downing Street. Scotland can also appeal to the principle of self-determination in international law. This principle was recently affirmed once more by the International Court of Justice in the Chagos Islands advisory proceedings brought by the United Nations General Assembly in relation to the UK. However, that case concerned a colonial territory. Colonial peoples enjoy a positive right to independence, even if the metropolitan state resists. It is disputed whether this right also applies outside of the colonial context. But at least in this instance it cannot be doubted that Scotland is inhabited by an established nation historically tied to a clearly defined territory. Through devolution this distinct and territorially defined population has demonstrated the ability to govern itself. Article here... https://www.lcil.cam.ac.uk/blog/could-scotland-stage-independence-referendum-without-uk-approval-what-law-says-prof-marc-weller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Latest Ipsos MORI poll shows 50/50 if an Indie vote was held tomorrow. https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/snp-knocking-door-majority-too-close-call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 ok we will go half way between Times and IPSOS - so yes 47.5% - even if it was 50/50 which it aint - the snp are pavement dancers they wouldnt chance an indyref unless its 60/40 in their favour - snivelling cowards . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Scottish Government would be crazy to call another referendum unless it was polling at least 60/40 for. Best way to get there is to run the country as best they can and prove that Scotland has what it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Ardent and respected nationalist Ian Mcwhirter saying in the Herald today that there will not be another referendum because none of the major parties want one. That includes the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 58 minutes ago, Cade said: Scottish Government would be crazy to call another referendum unless it was polling at least 60/40 for. Best way to get there is to run the country as best they can and prove that Scotland has what it takes. Exactly. If they actually put independence on the back burner and improved schools, health and followed through on a few of their promises then their support would increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) The real argument right now is whether the ScotGov has the legal right to call a referendum. Boris says no. Boris is also clawing back previously devolved powers with his Internal Market Bill. Boris is also taking the ScotGov to court to overturn two ScotGov bills (on children's rights and local government). The day after the last referendum, the "Solemn Vow" was ripped up and Call Me Dave introduced "English votes for English laws", relegating ALL Scottish, Welsh and NI MPs to second class MPs in the Westminster parliament, which is supposed to be the federal parliament but is in fact, first and foremost the English parliament, with Union-wide matters only given scant thought, if any at all. Things are going backwards at an alarming rate. England doesn't like the tiny wee bit of autonomy that we have and is actively undermining it. Scotland has less power than the member States of the USA or Germany. It's barely above a regional council in terms of actual powers. Edited May 5, 2021 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Cade said: The real argument right now is whether the ScotGov has the legal right to call a referendum. Boris says no. Boris is also clawing back previously devolved powers with his Internal Market Bill. Boris is also taking the ScotGov to court to overturn two ScotGov bills (on children's rights and local government). The day after the last referendum, the "Solemn Vow" was ripped up and Call Me Dave introduced "English votes for English laws", relegating ALL Scottish MPs to second class MPs in the Westminster parliament, which is supposed to be the federal parliament but is in fact the English first and foremost. Things are going backwards at an alarming rate. England doesn't like the tiny wee bit of autonomy that we have and is actively undermining it. Scotland has less power than the member States of the USA or Germany. It's barely above a regional council in terms of actual powers. The Internal Market bill does not affect any previously devolved powers. All the relevant powers came from the EU. Holyrood will gain powers over agriculture and food labelling but they cannot block the import of produce from other parts of the UK because that would be ridiculous. The 2016 Scotland Act gave Holyrood powers over the Crown Estate, Income Tax, welfare powers etc. English Votes for English Laws is vital post-devolution. It would be hideously unfair for Scottish or Welsh MPs to vote on entirely English legislation which has been devolved to the other nations parliaments. Westminster is NOT supposed to be a federal parliament because we are not a federation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 hour ago, jambos are go! said: Ardent and respected nationalist Ian Mcwhirter saying in the Herald today that there will not be another referendum because none of the major parties want one. That includes the SNP. Ian McWhirter lost patience with the SNP a long time ago tbh. He’s like a lot of nationalists in that he doesn’t believe they want it. They’re careerists in his eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swahili Jambo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 On 03/05/2021 at 01:43, Zlatanable said: If this was the 2021 Scottish Election thread, your many, many, many, many, many words might have been relevant. I do enjoy this thread. Current odds for a SNP majority 1/200. Tick tock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Swahili Jambo said: I do enjoy this thread. Current odds for a SNP majority 1/200. Tick tock. 1/200 for most seats. EVS for a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swahili Jambo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: 1/200 for most seats. EVS for a majority. Vive la difference. It's still a landslide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said: Exactly. If they actually put independence on the back burner and improved schools, health and followed through on a few of their promises then their support would increase. That is not what they are about. Division and rancour are what they're good at, wasting other folks money while sitting on fat salaries and biting the hand that feeds them. The few smart ones amongst them know any divorce from the UK would mean a Scotland surviving on much less and an economic spiral but they will never admit this despite study after study and glaringly obvious facts like the end of fossil fuel dependency, our aging population and what Brexit means for a breakaway Scotland. They have no argument at all except the same bankrupt emotional one from 2014. Good government is not and never will be their main priority, if the last 14 years have proven anything it is that. Edited May 5, 2021 by JackLadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Swahili Jambo said: I do enjoy this thread. Current odds for a SNP majority 1/200. Tick tock. Have any of your 24 posts been about Hearts? From what I can see they are politics and/or calling Hearts fans Rangers fans. Stinks worse than Seafield Edited May 5, 2021 by Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, Candy said: Have any of your 24 posts been about Hearts? From what I can see they are politics and/or or calling Hearts fans Rangers fans. Stinks worse than Seafield To be fair, many of us are swerving the Terrace just now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: To be fair, many of us are swerving the Terrace just now... Fair point, myself included for a large part, and whilst I may disagree with loads of people in the shed political wise, at least I know most of them are Hearts fams Mr 24 posts has had at least 2 calling Hearts fans huns and a barrel load about politics Edited May 5, 2021 by Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Candy said: Fair point, myself included for a large part, and whilst I may disagree with loads of people in the shed political wise, at least I know most of them are Hearts fams Mr 24 posts has had at least 2 calling Hearts fans huns and a barrel load about politics Ah, I can see why the hackles may be up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Candy said: Mr 24 posts has had at least 2 calling Hearts fans huns and a barrel load about politics Stick on Cheltic Mhinded wum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, jonesy said: Or competency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Back on topic, I've no idea why anyone gives a shiney shite about polls. The ones actually that matter are the actual elections/referenda. The rest of it is just catnip for the media and folk seeking confirmation of their own entrenched position. That said, the Scottish voting system has been shown up to be inadequate and unfair.. The likes of AFU and Alba have proved that. Edited May 5, 2021 by Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Candy said: Back on topic, I've no idea why anyone gives a shiney shite about polls. The ones actually that matter are the actual elections/referenda. The rest of it is just catnip for the media and folk seeking confirmation of their own entrenched position. That said, the Scottish voting system has been shown up to be inadequate and unfair.. The likes of AFU and Alba have proved that. Not as bad as single transferable vote used in the Scottish local elections. Absolutely horrid system, very confusing. Tons of spoilt ballots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, jonesy said: You look tired, Konnie. Away and get some kip, you'll be up celebrating tomorrow night, by the looks of things... Certainly hope that I will be Jonesy...Too early for kip am sitting in the extension watching a TV series on Netflix that Mrs KvC would never sanction and enjoying the quiet. She has retired early as she's out on her feet after a stressful few days at work. Good that we can disagree on things but keep it relatively civil.... You bumbder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, jonesy said: Are you Peter Murrell? 😛 Either way, I pride myself on my civility and ability to see things from other people's perspectives, ya narrow-minded prick. At the end of the day, as long as my family, friends and neighbours are happy and healthy, and I'm free and unhindered to travel to the hills whenever I want, I couldn't really care less which bunch of liars, thieves and charlatans wins any election - it's merely a form of tribalism akin to football but without the pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Fishbowl opinion mouthpieces out in force again I see. FFS has Purdah not kicked in yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 26 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Certainly hope that I will be Jonesy...Too early for kip am sitting in the extension watching a TV series on Netflix that Mrs KvC would never sanction and enjoying the quiet. She has retired early as she's out on her feet after a stressful few days at work. Good that we can disagree on things but keep it relatively civil.... You bumbder! 8 minutes ago, jonesy said: Are you Peter Murrell? 😛 Either way, I pride myself on my civility and ability to see things from other people's perspectives, ya narrow-minded prick. At the end of the day, as long as my family, friends and neighbours are happy and healthy, and I'm free and unhindered to travel to the hills whenever I want, I couldn't really care less which bunch of liars, thieves and charlatans wins any election - it's merely a form of tribalism akin to football but without the pies Oooohhh friend, political opponent friend, friend from kickback friend 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Candy said: Oooohhh friend, political opponent friend, friend from kickback friend 😁 No friend winker .... God this place is a struggle sometimes...how is w a nker not allowed? Edited May 5, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 38 minutes ago, jonesy said: You look tired, Konnie. Away and get some kip, you'll be up celebrating tomorrow night, by the looks of things... Count doesn't start until Friday morning. No late night political happenings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 34 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: Not as bad as single transferable vote used in the Scottish local elections. Absolutely horrid system, very confusing. Tons of spoilt ballots. Begs the question, if folk can't understand the system, do they deserve the vote? It's not that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Boris said: Begs the question, if folk can't understand the system, do they deserve the vote? It's not that hard. Who decides what level of understanding is required to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Candy said: Who decides what level of understanding is required to vote? Parliament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Boris said: Parliament Indeed they do. Your post questions if people who don't understand the system don't deserve a vote. This could include 16/17 year olds, the elderly, prisoners, people with learning difficulties, those who have fell out of the education system and those that have just been too busy to read it properly Understanding the voting papers may not be hard to you or me, but it may be to others who are fully deserving of the vote. Keeping things as simple and straightforward as possible benefits everyone. Edited May 5, 2021 by Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Candy said: Indeed they do. Your post questions if people who don't understand the system don't deserve a vote. This could include 16/17 year olds, the elderly, prisoners, people with learning difficulties, those who have fell out of the education system and those that have just been too busy to read it properly Understanding the voting papers may not be hard to you or me, but it may be to others who are fully deserving of the vote. Keeping things as simple and straightforward as possible benefits everyone. In a nutshell. You want a first past the post system for all elections in Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said: Sturgeon has got the Scottish electorate on a piece of string. She knows as long as she bangs the Indy drum she gets in but won't call for a referendum unless she knows she can win. So she stays in power despite dividing the nation and numerous failings with the day job. Propped up by the Greens. Seriously, who votes for that rag tag shower? The guilty middle class, doing their bit to reduce Scotland's 0.15% contribution to climate change? Idealistic freshers yet to embark on real life? If anyone cares to look at their proposition, they'll find it's the most dangerous of all the parties, by a country mile. They condemn the "pursuit of economic growth" and want life stripped back to "essentials". Basically, the erosion of living standards, permanent recession and huge cuts to public services. Throw in a 4 day week, on the same pay no doubt, and it must be the most economically illiterate manifesto since devolution began. Morally superior, it aint. Think before you vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, John Findlay said: In a nutshell. You want a first past the post system for all elections in Scotland? One vote per qualifying voter seems fair. I've no idea what the outcome would be on that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Being an idealistic fresher, I'm voting Green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 It's perfectly simple. Vote once for the Constituency seat, with is FPTP. Exactly the same as a UK General election. Then vote again for the Regional sets which are a form of weighted PR. Parties with lower numbers of Constituency seats get a positive multiplier on all their Regional list votes so they get more extra seats. Parties with higher numbers of Constituency seats get a negative multiplier on all their Regional list votes so they get less extra seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Candy said: Indeed they do. Your post questions if people who don't understand the system don't deserve a vote. This could include 16/17 year olds, the elderly, prisoners, people with learning difficulties, those who have fell out of the education system and those that have just been too busy to read it properly Understanding the voting papers may not be hard to you or me, but it may be to others who are fully deserving of the vote. Keeping things as simple and straightforward as possible benefits everyone. I don't, in theory, disagree, however at a Westminster level we have the most basic and undemocratic electoral systems. Scottish parliament electoral system works well, imo, and could be used for local elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Candy said: One vote per qualifying voter seems fair. I've no idea what the outcome would be on that system. Party list system then. Vote for the party, seats divvied up on share of the vote. Lose the constituencies, but arguably a fair representation of the national will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Being an idealistic fresher, I'm voting Green. Second vote for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Being an idealistic fresher, I'm voting Green. I had you in the guilty middle class, Guv. Apologies, I'll update my spreadsheet 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I had you in the guilty middle class, Guv. Apologies, I'll update my spreadsheet 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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