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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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Just now, Smithee said:

Ah good, back to regular levels of debate

 

I will continue to expose snp lies and hypocrisy, true. 👍

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2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Tbf I would be fairly bitter and not quick to let go false rape and sexual assault charges against me go tbh. Let’s not forget these women. 

He has made three statements since getting released. Think he has been pretty respectful of due course. 
 

 

 

I think he should reflect on his own past behaviour and possibly come to terms with that behaviour contributing towards where he ended up.  He was subjected to legal error in the process but it's been dealt with and can't be put right any more.  

 

He should ask himself if any of this would have happened if he hadn't been the kind of man he was/is.  

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dobmisterdobster

I have no dog in this fight. I don't even live in Scotland anymore.

I just wish they would change Holyrood's electoral system. It's a convoluted mess. The worst possible implementation of proportional representation possible.

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2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I just see a man who admitted (only because he had little choice) to behaving poorly towards women continuing to pursue a campaign to damage women who made mistakes,  that were recognised and apologised for,  as well as dragging out the episode for the women complainers at the centre of this.  


He admitted to being inappropriate. The levels of inappropriateness is really important here. I have behaved inappropriate in the past - pretty certain I have told inappropriate jokes, flirted and maybe made sexist comments (in today’s standards anyways, not mine) of course I haven’t been the powerful head of a political party and this is what it boils down to. He is Alex Salmond. 
 

These people that coerced these girls into making this a criminal trial are utterly despicable if you ask me and are fundamentally what is wrong with modern day society. Salmond defends himself (twice) in court. All that is said “aw these poor girls”  how much time and money has went into this all? 

 

how about bringing them up on perjury charges because they have clearly lied in court.  That has been proven. But apparently lying about being raped or where to were on a specific day isn’t seen as that imprortant. 

 

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Unknown user
1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

I have no dog in this fight. I don't even live in Scotland anymore.

I just wish they would change Holyrood's electoral system. It's a convoluted mess. The worst possible implementation of proportional representation possible.

I don't agree, it's far from perfect but by and large the share of seats is actually a pretty fair reflection of the vote in Scotland, much much more accurate than Westminster.

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3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I think he should reflect on his own past behaviour and possibly come to terms with that behaviour contributing towards where he ended up.  He was subjected to legal error in the process but it's been dealt with and can't be put right any more.  

 

He should ask himself if any of this would have happened if he hadn't been the kind of man he was/is.  


Pretty certain being dragged through a rape trial is more than a legal error. 

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1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:


He admitted to being inappropriate. The levels of inappropriateness is really important here. I have behaved inappropriate in the past - pretty certain I have told inappropriate jokes, flirted and maybe made sexist comments (in today’s standards anyways, not mine) of course I haven’t been the powerful head of a political party and this is what it boils down to. He is Alex Salmond. 
 

These people that coerced these girls into making this a criminal trial are utterly despicable if you ask me and are fundamentally what is wrong with modern day society. Salmond defends himself (twice) in court. All that is said “aw these poor girls”  how much time and money has went into this all? 

 

how about bringing them up on perjury charges because they have clearly lied in court.  That has been proven. But apparently lying about being raped or where to were on a specific day isn’t seen as that imprortant. 

 

 

Were they coerced? 

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Das Viertel Hearts
7 hours ago, Spellczech said:

I worked several years in the oil industry.

 

Did ye aye?

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coconut doug
6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I just see a man who admitted (only because he had little choice) to behaving poorly towards women continuing to pursue a campaign to damage women who made mistakes,  that were recognised and apologised for,  as well as dragging out the episode for the women complainers at the centre of this.  

 

Most people have a similar impression.The trouble is they found hin not guilty in all but one charge. The clear implication in some cases was that the women were lying. In particular the woman who claimed he attempted to rape her but was found not to have been in that place at that time. Her testimony was also different to the statement she had given police previously. 

  I can't see why we should let this woman move on. Why should she have anonymity, especially since it seems to have empowered her to invent a serious accusation. 

 It's almost as if this individual had a particularly desperate need to convict Salmond.

 

The police spent months investigating Salmond and came up with absolutely nothing and as far as i am aware Salmond has not admitted to anything of a criminal nature.

  

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dobmisterdobster
8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I don't agree, it's far from perfect but by and large the share of seats is actually a pretty fair reflection of the vote in Scotland, much much more accurate than Westminster.

 

The whole Additional Members thing is a massive consolation prize/losers medal. Give me Westminster democracy any day.

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coconut doug
7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Were they coerced? 

 

The two who had their claims escalated to legal proceedings were. They specifically stated that they did not want to go legal but they were taken there anyway. They feel abandoned by the procedure. Stand by for an anonymous damages claim against the government. They'll take us for hundreds of thousands and we wont even know about it.

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24 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I just see a man who admitted (only because he had little choice) to behaving poorly towards women continuing to pursue a campaign to damage women who made mistakes,  that were recognised and apologised for,  as well as dragging out the episode for the women complainers at the centre of this.  

 

Simply solved by dealing with the complaints properly.

 

Scottish Government still has a chance to do that. 

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Unknown user
1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

The whole Additional Members thing is a massive consolation prize/losers medal. Give me Westminster democracy any day.

Surely we all want a system that more fairly reflects the electorate's wishes?

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Paddy Crossan
10 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

The whole Additional Members thing is a massive consolation prize/losers medal. Give me Westminster democracy any day.

You must be in the wynd up 

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dobmisterdobster
1 minute ago, Paddy Crossan said:

You must be in the wynd up 

 

No. I just like strong governments who get things done (even if it's the SNP who I dislike). But that's just me.

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8 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

No. I just like strong governments who get things done (even if it's the SNP who I dislike). But that's just me.

 

I think the Coalitions have done reasonably well. Stable enough Government. Some compromise over budgets. 

 

22 years on it's been alright overall. 

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48 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Most people have a similar impression.The trouble is they found hin not guilty in all but one charge. The clear implication in some cases was that the women were lying. In particular the woman who claimed he attempted to rape her but was found not to have been in that place at that time. Her testimony was also different to the statement she had given police previously. 

  I can't see why we should let this woman move on. Why should she have anonymity, especially since it seems to have empowered her to invent a serious accusation. 

 It's almost as if this individual had a particularly desperate need to convict Salmond.

 

The police spent months investigating Salmond and came up with absolutely nothing and as far as i am aware Salmond has not admitted to anything of a criminal nature.

  

Nice of you to return to this thread. Thought you had lost your internet when you didn't post for two days when NS was found not to have broken the.ministerial code and won the ridiculous vote of no confidence. But no; as soon as AS sticks another knife in you are like a dog on heat. Thankfully the vast majority of snp supporters will make sure that she is still our FM after May.

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Enzo Chiefo
6 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Nope, the names being leaked by the tolies and then leaking the results of the enquiry. shameful but that what you get from the toly unionists.

The name of one of the alleged "victims" was leaked by a member of Frau Murrell's staff.  Details of the Police investigation into Salmond were leaked to the Daily Record in 2018 by a senior Scot Gov official. Murrell, his wife and the rest of their cabal are rotten to the core.

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Enzo Chiefo
3 hours ago, steve123 said:

Salmond going after Leslie Evans in court and reporting the leak to the Daily Record to the police.

Good lad Alex👍. In any normal organisation the kind of deceit, mismanagement, witheld documents, ignored legal advice and unminuted meetings that have occurred, would result in someone's head rolling. If Nicola Sturgeon thinks that one heavily redacted report, subsequently rendered "incomplete " or "misleading " exonerates her, then she seriously underestimates both Salmond and the Scottish voters.

 

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Spitonastranger
2 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

The whole Additional Members thing is a massive consolation prize/losers medal. Give me Westminster democracy any day.

What like the house of lords

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1 minute ago, Spitonastranger said:

What like the house of lords

 

No, it should be abolished. An unelected and unaccountable free meal ticket, a mini Brussels.

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Spitonastranger
25 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

No, it should be abolished. An unelected and unaccountable free meal ticket, a mini Brussels.

It will be for us once we gain independence 

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dobmisterdobster
46 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

What like the house of lords

 

The House of Lords is an atrocity.

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coconut doug
1 hour ago, XB52 said:

Nice of you to return to this thread. Thought you had lost your internet when you didn't post for two days when NS was found not to have broken the.ministerial code and won the ridiculous vote of no confidence. But no; as soon as AS sticks another knife in you are like a dog on heat. Thankfully the vast majority of snp supporters will make sure that she is still our FM after May.

 

I replied to your "get it right up you" post. Did you miss it?

 

One man chose to believe her story that she forgot and so now we can proclaim that she didn't break the code. I doubt she would have been as successful as Salmond if she had gone on trial with her fellow citizens.

 

I don't believe her, not only does it stretch credibilty that she forgot when she was told this earth shattering news but she had perfect recount on exactly when she became aware that the government's case for the judicial review had become unstateable. Her forgetfulness seems to have helped her in one instance and her photographic detailed memory rescued her in another.

 

I fail to see where AS has stuck the knife in for the government. If you read any of the enquiry report you would know that Lesley Evans has been blamed for a lot and you would also know that the FM and the government agree that there were many failings. Nevertheless nobody has been sacked.

 

   What about the women who were railroaded into going to court when they expressly said they did not want to. They claim they were abandoned afterwards and yet Evans, the FM and the rest of them  repeatedly tell us that this whole thing is about the women. These two women don't think that. Hypocrisy of a high level even by the standard of politicians. Just as well they have Salmond to look after their interests by trying to bring Evans to some form of justice.

 

Salmond also wants to get the police to investigate the civil service to find out who illegally leaked the story to the press. They know it was from a small group close to the PS and the FM. How strange that such a leak should happen from a group so dedicated to the interests of these allegedly wronged women. I wonder how much thought was given over to these poor women before the leak happened. The story where Salmond was likened to the Wests, Jimmy saville, and the killers of James Bulger. The police and prosecution service spent huge sums investigating Salmond and came up with precisely zero. I don't think its much to ask the police to try and find out who leaker is.

 

She may well continue as FM but she is seriously damaged and will only survive because of the pitiful quality of opposition.

 

I only say what i think and its not my fault if Indy fails, nor could any reasonable person blame Salmond. I'm not hiding and i'm quite happy to be wrong but i cant unthink my thoughts.  

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18 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

The House of Lords is an atrocity.

In what way have the functions of the HOL had a negative impact on the lives of the citizens of this country?

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dobmisterdobster
5 minutes ago, Candy said:

In what way have the functions of the HOL had a negative impact on the lives of the citizens of this country?

 

I support the concept of the Lords over an elected second chamber. However I do not support hereditary peers who are born to rule over this country.

I also hated how they obstructed every piece of Brexit legislation purely for ideological reasons.

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46 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

It will be for us once we gain independence 

 

You know snp the plan is to go cap in hand to Brussels, right?  A vassal of the unelected and unaccountable commission and their empty rubber stamp assembly. 

Edited by JackLadd
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Spitonastranger
7 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

You know snp the plan is to go cap in hand to Brussels, right?  A vassal of the unelected and unaccountable commission and their empty rubber stamp assembly. 

Cap in hand, really, research things before you talk guff

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3 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

Cap in hand, really, research things before you talk guff

 

 

She's already been there cap in hand, begging for an audience that she didn't get. Maybe you missed it in your research, cheeky wideo.

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manaliveits105

Both Sturgeon in holyrood and Fatty Blackford on tv today came out with the remember the two women at the centre of this -  line today - brass necks of them 

It was the snp who created the whole situation and have never given a thought for any of the women involved

Until the SNP’s skullduggery and dishonesty was exposed 

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Enzo Chiefo
14 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

You know snp the plan is to go cap in hand to Brussels, right?  A vassal of the unelected and unaccountable commission and their empty rubber stamp assembly. 

Yip, France and Germany trample over all the other members in the EU. As far as I'm aware they won't be sending us £13bn a year in Barnett funding either.  The EU Parliament is a "non-proposing" chamber that simply votes on legislation proposed by the Commission. If they vote against,  they can still be overruled. The SNP have currently got 85% of Scottish seats, from less than 50% of the vote. They should, really, be feckin contrite, humble and grateful and cease their whingeing.

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29 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip, France and Germany trample over all the other members in the EU. As far as I'm aware they won't be sending us £13bn a year in Barnett funding either.  The EU Parliament is a "non-proposing" chamber that simply votes on legislation proposed by the Commission. If they vote against,  they can still be overruled. The SNP have currently got 85% of Scottish seats, from less than 50% of the vote. They should, really, be feckin contrite, humble and grateful and cease their whingeing.

 

100%. Scotland would be a net contributor (I assume) although I don't doubt the hardship separation would create. The Irish did pretty well out of the eu until the expansions and banking crisis. Now they have to stump up and have zero control over the amount. Somewhat deserved given the tax haven status they provide for the likes of Apple. No doubt the snp would want a piece of that action, but all pushes up the net contribution and no London 13bn filling their deficit. For me it all boils down to tartan army-esque anti Englishness clouding their limited judgement. Being Europhiles fits right in with that bigotry.

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Scottish Government pledges 4% pay rise for NHS Scotland workers.

Lowest pay band are getting 5.4%

:jjyay:

Edited by Cade
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A Boy Named Crow
1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

Could it? 

In what way, Independent or not?

It seems the howling wind, crashing waves,scorching sun (haud on, scratch that last one) as well geographic position put Scotland on a great place to be at the forefront of green hydrogen etc. 

 

Independent or not, those factors would exist,  but it'd be a crying shame to let Westminster pish any windfall up the wall, like they did with the oil money.

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17 hours ago, Spellczech said:

I worked several years in the oil industry.

 

No answer to the lifting costs then? Didn't think so. 

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manaliveits105
5 hours ago, Cade said:

Scottish Government pledges 4% pay rise for NHS Scotland workers.

Lowest pay band are getting 5.4%

:jjyay:

and would be well deserved but just obvious showboating electioneering from Nicoliar and co and no detail about how it will be funded - the unions are away to think it over 

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Unknown user
1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

and would be well deserved but just obvious showboating electioneering from Nicoliar and co and no detail about how it will be funded - the unions are away to think it over 

Omg they're doing what people want by giving pay rises to the people who were all agree deserve them?

The absolute devils!

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manaliveits105

It will be interesting if the unions come back and say not enough - the SG will have to increase offer whether we can afford it or not or be unpopular at election time . If I was the union I would immediately come back and say 10% minimum .

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Seymour M Hersh
8 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

I support the concept of the Lords over an elected second chamber. However I do not support hereditary peers who are born to rule over this country.

I also hated how they obstructed every piece of Brexit legislation purely for ideological reasons.

 

Are you suggesting we are better off with political appointees only? 

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Seymour M Hersh
38 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

It will be interesting if the unions come back and say not enough - the SG will have to increase offer whether we can afford it or not or be unpopular at election time . If I was the union I would immediately come back and say 10% minimum .

 

I also wonder how other public sector workers will react to such largesse to only one section.

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After the biggest pandemic the modern world has ever had to deal with...
 

NHS pay rise in England at 1% good

 

NHS pay rise in Scotland at 4% ( because its driven by the SNP) bad!

 

If its better than the Westminster evil empire it must be negative somehow. 
 

Negative, door, repetetive, nonsense. 

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8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

A fact rarely acknowledged, is that the entire situation of Salmond V Sturgeon (which has cost Scottish taxpayers so much money) ((and has probably/might/won't end Nicola Sturgeon's political career))

is, this whole thing is an internal SNP thing.

 

It was about two internal complaints within the SNP. 

 

This situation is 100% about the SNP at it's centre. 

 

The 2 original woman complainers are Scottish Government employees.

 

The SNP members joined in after a campaign allegedly led by Sturgeon to get Salmond jailed so out of the Independence campaign. 

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1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

After the biggest pandemic the modern world has ever had to deal with...
 

NHS pay rise in England at 1% good

 

NHS pay rise in Scotland at 4% ( because its driven by the SNP) bad!

 

If its better than the Westminster evil empire it must be negative somehow. 
 

Negative, door, repetetive, nonsense. 

 

Good use of the extra money from Westminster. 

 

Though other public services are facing cuts. 

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Sensible view from down south:

 

If Conservatives care about the ministerial code, at least 11 cabinet members should resign – Yorkshire Bylines

 

Up until Nicola Sturgeon’s exoneration last night, senior Conservatives had been demanding that the first minister resign over a potential breach of the ministerial code. These figures include Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross, and his predecessor, Ruth Davidson. The irony and double standards on display here is staggering, given how many of their colleagues in Westminster have fallen foul of the very same code.

 

Despite this, neither have called for ministers of their own party to resign.

 

There are some obvious cases of this misconduct: Boris Johnson’s repeated lies, and Priti Patel’s recent bullying allegations. But then the question arises: how many cabinet ministers have broken the ministerial code in the Johnson administration?

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Spitonastranger
11 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

She's already been there cap in hand, begging for an audience that she didn't get. Maybe you missed it in your research, cheeky wideo.

So the British Gov is not "cap in handing it " to the USA, Canada etc  ps sorry about being cheeky :) 

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