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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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Roxy Hearts
11 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

There plenty berating the Tories in Westminster there’s even a thread on it. 
I’m no lover of the crooks and liars down there either. 

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9 hours ago, luckydug said:

It seems the Scottish Tories think its fair to convict someone before they even give evidence. 

Won't succeed though as the other parties want to wait until the enquiry has concluded. 


It seems the first minister thinks it’s fair to convict someone after they were found not guiltily by a court of law. 

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8 hours ago, coconut doug said:

What actually is it that Salmond has done that is so inappropriate?

 


I think you are rightly highlighting that Salmond was found not guilty but are deliberately happy to ignore the number of complaints against him.

 

You are happy to provide responses to points on a legal position but I think there are too many claimants for there not to be a significant concern that he may have been a sleaze.
 

I think most people don’t think he’s a rapist but given the circumstansive info and his lawyers public faux pas (on the train) it is naïveté at its best to sit and bang the “what did he do drum” when it’s clear he was a letchy old man. 

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So many clued up people here in matters of law and ministerial codes. 

 

Plus someone earlier claiming they know the state of Scottish financial affairs AFTER Independence...

 

I feel blessed.

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Horatio Caine

TBF - Salmond has played a blinder here.  Started off with his own inappropriate behaviour (by his Counsel's admission), which caused a number of serious complaints against him.  It's now turned that he is the victim! He's not a Celtic supporter is he?

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Malinga the Swinga
1 minute ago, Mysterion said:

I hink most people don’t think he’s a rapist but given the circumstansive info and his lawyers public faux pas (on the train) it is naïveté at its best to sit and bang the “what did he do drum” when it’s clear he was a letchy old man. 

He isn't a rapist, full stop. No circumstantive info, no letchy old man deflections will change this. This has to stop. 

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JudyJudyJudy
8 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

However Murrell and Co only needed one of the 13 charges to stick, one guilty verdict and AS was gone, never to return. All other enquiries over and NS solidifies her power base. 

 

The biggest mystery for me as a neutral is who was behind the strategy, was it the husband, the wife or a collective decision?

That’s the main issue . Who was behind all this . It seems to be a conspiracy . If it was ? Why ? Salmond had all but left the SNP so didn’t have much power . Why would they want to bring him down ? Sturgeon was and is flying high in the polls etc so why ? As others might note I’ve fell out of like with Sturgeon due to the handling if the pandemic but surely she deserves her say and will today . It would be a shame if her career ended in a scandal like this considering all she has done in her political life . Politics is a cruel career . Just look at how Thatcher was treated . She won the Tories 3 elections , completely changed the economic and social identity of the U.K. and got the boot very unceremoniously when in office ! ( ps now that was a great day ) . 

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1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

So many clued up people here in matters of law and ministerial codes. 

 

Plus someone earlier claiming they know the state of Scottish financial affairs AFTER Independence...

 

I feel blessed.


Hi pans

 

If Sturgeon is found by the a inquiry to have breached the code do you feel she should resign?

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JudyJudyJudy
8 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

However Murrell and Co only needed one of the 13 charges to stick, one guilty verdict and AS was gone, never to return. All other enquiries over and NS solidifies her power base. 

 

The biggest mystery for me as a neutral is who was behind the strategy, was it the husband, the wife or a collective decision?

 

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

He isn't a rapist, full stop. No circumstantive info, no letchy old man deflections will change this. This has to stop. 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 

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Malinga the Swinga
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

It would be a shame if her career ended in a scandal like this considering all she has done in her political life . Politics is a cruel career. 

If it does, and I am not convinced it will, she will have no one to blame bar herself and her husband. 

Climbed to top on Salmonds coat tails, stabs him in back at first opportunity, and then pays price when stab turns out to be scratch rather than fatal wound. 

Sounds like a film plot. 

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Unknown user
9 hours ago, luckydug said:

That's why the SG pressed ahead with the case. 

They couldn't just bury it. 

Surely this is obvious. If they'd decided not to prosecute Salmond imagine the reaction!

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2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 


There was 9(?) women’s words against his so that to me suggests there was something significantly wrong with their credibility that made the Jury not to believe them. I mean the allegation of rape at bute house when he wasn’t even at bute house that day should have seen that particular women charged for false allegations imo

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JudyJudyJudy
6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If it does, and I am not convinced it will, she will have no one to blame bar herself and her husband. 

Climbed to top on Salmonds coat tails, stabs him in back at first opportunity, and then pays price when stab turns out to be scratch rather than fatal wound. 

Sounds like a film plot. 

Yes I agree if it’s all true it’s pretty rotten thing to do . But like I said why ? What’s the motivation behind it ? I wonder who would play Alex snd her in a film lol 

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JudyJudyJudy
2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


There was 9(?) women’s words against his so that to me suggests there was something significantly wrong with their credibility that made the Jury not to believe them. I mean the allegation of rape at bute house when he wasn’t even at bute house that day should have seen that particular women charged for false allegations imo

Tea completely agree . It annoys me that they have been portrayed as the “ victims “ when in fact it has been him as it was clearly a stitch up . Follow the money I say ! ( women’s bank accounts ) 

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jack D and coke
6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 

It’s a bizarre affair altogether. It literally makes no sense unless she was just determined to expose him as a letchy pest and believed something would’ve stuck.

We’ll see later today possibly. 
 

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11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

He isn't a rapist, full stop. No circumstantive info, no letchy old man deflections will change this. This has to stop. 

You can’t stop people having an opinion man...

 

Again - I don’t think he was guilty of the charges laid against him.

 

Alex “Touchy Feely” Salmond will struggle to shift his reputation for being “Hands on” as the wiki page about his trial suggests...

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I’m stayed away from this thread and only viewed it but even before a ball is kicked there’s dummies being spat out left, right and centre.  
 

Like petulant kids not getting their own way. 😂

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doctor jambo
16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s the main issue . Who was behind all this . It seems to be a conspiracy . If it was ? Why ? Salmond had all but left the SNP so didn’t have much power . Why would they want to bring him down ? Sturgeon was and is flying high in the polls etc so why ? As others might note I’ve fell out of like with Sturgeon due to the handling if the pandemic but surely she deserves her say and will today . It would be a shame if her career ended in a scandal like this considering all she has done in her political life . Politics is a cruel career . Just look at how Thatcher was treated . She won the Tories 3 elections , completely changed the economic and social identity of the U.K. and got the boot very unceremoniously when in office ! ( ps now that was a great day ) . 

The snp are like the Sith.

Always two there are- a master and an apprentice.

So to rule the apprentice must kill the master.

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2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

You can’t stop people having an opinion man...

 

Again - I don’t think he was guilty of the charges laid against him.

 

Alex “Touchy Feely” Salmond will struggle to shift his reputation for being “Hands on” as the wiki page about his trial suggests...


I think he is all but retired now and this is his swan song bringing down people he feels have betrayed him. I think his reputation is less important to him now that he out of politics. No way he could make a come back. To old now anyways. 

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Malinga the Swinga
3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I mean the allegation of rape at bute house when he wasn’t even at bute house that day should have seen that particular women charged for false allegations imo

All the women were granted anonymity &  immunity guarantee from Crown before trial took place, regardless of whether they were proven to have lied. 

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1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

All the women were granted anonymity &  immunity guarantee from Crown before trial took place, regardless of whether they were proven to have lied. 


Makes you wonder why they and the crown felt they needed Immunity if they truly believed they were victims of sexual misconduct. Anonymity I get. Just puts more credence to the belief that there was a plot against Salmond to bring him down. We don’t care if it proven you have lied as long as you testify. 

  

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jack D and coke
3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


I think he is all but retired now and this is his swan song bringing down people he feels have betrayed him. I think his reputation is less important to him now that he out of politics. No way he could make a come back. To old now anyways. 

He’s 66. Biden has just became POTUS at 78. 
I think it’s better he stays away though he’s far too divisive a character and even more than he was before. 

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JudyJudyJudy
10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The snp are like the Sith.

Always two there are- a master and an apprentice.

So to rule the apprentice must kill the master.

😂😂😂 Or a tacky version of the classic film. “ all about Eve “ when the aging actress takes a young ingenue under her wing feeling sorry for her with her hard luck story . The young ingenue then tries to steal her man and her career and connives against her at every turn !!! 😂😂

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JudyJudyJudy
16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s a bizarre affair altogether. It literally makes no sense unless she was just determined to expose him as a letchy pest and believed something would’ve stuck.

We’ll see later today possibly. 
 

Yes the truth will out well their version of the “ truth “ 

11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

All the women were granted anonymity &  immunity guarantee from Crown before trial took place, regardless of whether they were proven to have lied. 

Makes it’s seem even more of a stitch up then 

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Makes you wonder why they and the crown felt they needed Immunity if they truly believed they were victims of sexual misconduct. Anonymity I get. Just puts more credence to the belief that there was a plot against Salmond to bring him down. We don’t care if it proven you have lied as long as you testify. 

  

See above 

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JudyJudyJudy
1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

She is not half going for the sympathy vote here

She will try everything under the sun 

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Brighton Jambo
9 hours ago, luckydug said:

If they had dropped the case every chance people would have been accusing NS of a cover up to protect her friend AS. 

The Unionist/Tory press would have been only too happy to run with that line. 

I don’t agree with that.  If there was clear legal guidance that shows the case couldn’t be won then that would put that to bed.  Also latest development wasn’t driven by Tory press or unionist press.  It was driven by Alex Salmond.  

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Sturgeon says Committee got all the information it wanted having had her promise to provide all information read to her. 

 

Just not the legal advice. 

 

 

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Brighton Jambo

It was definitely premature for the Conservatives to call for her to resign before giving evidence.  But it was good politics as on the front page of every major newspaper today is headlines about this and her being pushed to resign.  
 

Given the budget is today, if they had left it till tomorrow if would be lost in the noise.

 

People won’t like it but it was good, clever politics. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56261223

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Just now, AlimOzturk said:


Hi pans

 

If Sturgeon is found by the a inquiry to have breached the code do you feel she should resign?

Hi Alim,

 

I couldnt give a rats arse if she eats babies for breakfast. Once we are independent the SNP will be done anyway.

 

This "he said she said pish" is just for the benefit of the tories and their supporters. Who died?

 

Theres a major election on the horizon and its no coincidence the union parties are hammering this on all outlets.

 

How many tories fall on their sword? Well exactly!

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Maroon Sailor

Says she didn't intervene but then says she refused to allow a powerful man use status to get what he wants

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Jambo-Jimbo

I can save everybody watching this, as it'll be.

 

He's lying, I'm telling the truth, move along, nothing to see here.

 

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Maroon Sailor

The crux of this imo is that the FM got caught up too readily with the MeToo thing at the time.

 

Here was a chance to bring a powerful man down and she went for it.

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52 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 

 

Yep, served on the jury of a rape case a few years back too. Was quite clear that the perpetrator was guilty of something, but the prosecution's case was flimsy and the defence lawyer very slippery, so despite us jurors desperately wanting to convict, there just wasn't a compelling case and the charges were not proven.

 

Very frustrating, but I'd imagine it happens all the time.

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2 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

The crux of this imo is that the FM got caught up too readily with the MeToo thing at the time.

 

Here was a chance to bring a powerful man down and she went for it.

 

As a general point why do people needs things like MeToo to get them to take things like sexual harassment seriously. 

 

Of course when Independence is above everything you can understand. 

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Maroon Sailor

She's turning this in to a nice friendly chat

 

Oh there's to the best of my knowledge thrown in

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Auldbenches
1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Nope. PHM.

 

:verysmug:

To be fair here, in this case the P in PHM could stand for past or perv...

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Good for Sturgeon giving a reason for complaints procedure against former ministers - that its easier to make a complaint when no longer working together.

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Auldbenches
38 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Lady in red 

 

79508671-F860-47FA-856E-3777D13964D9.png

Did you honestly look that up or get it from another website..?  

 

 

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manaliveits105
5 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Did you honestly look that up or get it from another website..?  

 

 

The vibrant red glared out from the tv and I was interested as to why people wear certain colours at important times - I would have expected a patriotic Scotland Blue outfit today 

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