The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Candy said:

I've lived in Scotland all my days and I don’t  think I've ever once met someone who speaks Gaelic.

 

You'd be lucky if more than 1% of people in Scotland  speak it.  Most likely a bunch of church elders in the western isles.

 

Certainly not my culture.

Thats because you are likely Scots not Gaelic but both cultures reside and hail

from Scotland. 

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, GinRummy said:

That’s not clear at all. You’ve just made an insulting accusation based on very little. Why were you beaten at school? Why can’t you be bothered learning Gaelic if it’s so important?

I think you still get Gaelic lessons in the primary schools in places like Oban and Fort William.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Poster I replied to:

 

1) ALWAYS criticises SNP, no matter the merits or other wise of whatever they have done

 

2) Is more than capable of responding to my responding in kind to his post

 

3) Isn't going to shag you, so get back under your rock  

 

 

There are two common themes from the "passionate" Nats on this thread

 

1) if they can't answer point reasonably its met with an "aye, but" reference to either Boris, Westminster, England or the Tories

 

2) When 1 above is pointed out, they respond further with childish insults

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

The only cost for Gaelic road signs is the paint.

True. The asgns need to be there in English anyway. Imaging if they were in Scots

Ainster - Anstruther

cockenny- Cockenzie

Shithole - Glasgow

Edited November 25, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[GinRummy]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

I think you still get Gaelic lessons in the primary schools in places like Oban and Fort William.

Yeah, I know there are still places that speak it and try to keep tradition alive. Quite happy for them if that’s what they want to do. For a lot of people  the whole Gaelic thing is irrelevant and has been for generations. 

[coconut doug]

Just now, GinRummy said:

That’s not clear at all. You’ve just made an insulting accusation based on very little. Why were you beaten at school? Why can’t you be bothered learning Gaelic if it’s so important?

 

I'm not making an accusation. I'm pointing out that you don't value other cultures including those from within you own country.

You told us that. I didn't make it up.

 

Who says i cant be bothered to learn Gaelic?  I'm practicing my pronunciation regularly when i encounter a road sign.

 

We were chastised for speaking Scots. 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, Candy said:

There are two common themes from the "passionate" Nats on this thread

 

1) if they can't answer point reasonably its met with an "aye, but" reference to either Boris, Westminster, England or the Tories

 

2) When 1 above is pointed out, they respond further with childish insults

 

 

Your whole post can be flipped to reference the "Britnats" (not a term I would use in real life) 

 

Have a nice evening  

 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I'm not making an accusation. I'm pointing out that you don't value other cultures including those from within you own country.

You told us that. I didn't make it up.

 

Who says i cant be bothered to learn Gaelic?  I'm practicing my pronunciation regularly when i encounter a road sign.

 

We were chastised for speaking Scots. 

 

I said Gaelic wasn’t part of my culture and making road signs in Gaelic isn’t worth a penny. You value the language but so far you’ve only managed to pronounce some towns in Gaelic? 😂😂😂 

 

 

 

I have respect for other cultures but regardless of their heritage I wouldn’t need road signs in their language either. That would be similarly pointless as everybody who reads the signs can read English. 

 

wtf Is that boy in the video banging on about? 😂😂😂😂 **** me!

Edited November 25, 2020 by GinRummy

[Guest]

"Speaking our language" is currently on BBC Alba for anyone thats interested 

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I said Gaelic wasn’t part of my culture and making road signs in Gaelic isn’t worth a penny. You value the language but so far you’ve only managed to pronounce some towns in Gaelic? 😂😂😂 

 

 

 

I have respect for other cultures but regardless of their heritage I wouldn’t need road signs in their language either. That would be similarly pointless as everybody who reads the signs can read English. 

 

wtf Is that boy in the video banging on about? 😂😂😂😂 **** me!

 

I am not obligated to learn any language just because i respect the rights of it's users to be able to use it. 

 

You have no idea as to my prowess in the Gaelic language.

 

You cannot have respect for the Gaelic culture if you cannot understand the need for the language to be used.

 

The boy in the video is speaking the language of indigenous Scots not from the Gaelic speaking areas. You seemed to think you could invalidate Gaelic because it wasn't spoken in Edinburgh. This language was the most prevalent in this area but has been stamped out literally in recent years. It seems you are trying to invalidate this too. Many people in Scotland still speak Scots maybe we should put that on road signs e.g. Anster or Cockenny.

[Pans Jambo]

24 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yeah, I know there are still places that speak it and try to keep tradition alive. Quite happy for them if that’s what they want to do. For a lot of people  the whole Gaelic thing is irrelevant and has been for generations. 

Its not irrelevant to the Gaelic speakers. And they're Scottish too.

[GinRummy]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

I am not obligated to learn any language just because i respect the rights of it's users to be able to use it. 

 

You have no idea as to my prowess in the Gaelic language.

 

You cannot have respect for the Gaelic culture if you cannot understand the need for the language to be used.

 

The boy in the video is speaking the language of indigenous Scots not from the Gaelic speaking areas. You seemed to think you could invalidate Gaelic because it wasn't spoken in Edinburgh. This language was the most prevalent in this area but has been stamped out literally in recent years. It seems you are trying to invalidate this too. Many people in Scotland still speak Scots maybe we should put that on road signs e.g. Anster or Cockenny.

I do have respect for the Gaelic culture. It’s just a tiny part of Scottish culture though and is so small that imo is utterly irrelevant. You just switched from using the term “Scottish culture “ to gaelic culture. 
 

That isn’t the language of indeginous Scots though. Where exactly has that come from. Nobody talks like that. Who decided that is what passes as Scots? Who decided? I am an indigenous Scot. I speak fairly similarly to other indigenous Scots and it is **** all like that. 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its not irrelevant to the Gaelic speakers. And they're Scottish too.

Absolutely agree. They all speak English as well and I totally respect their right to speak whatever language they please. How many fluent Gaelic speakers are there. Edit. Checked myself 57k fluent speakers, yet every town in the country has a Gaelic sign. It’s pointless. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by GinRummy

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Absolutely agree. They all speak English as well and I totally respect their right to speak whatever language they please. How many fluent Gaelic speakers are there.

I don't know, around100K at a guess but I couldn't care less to be honest and if they want their own TV station and their place names on road signs I really don't mind it. Get the odd Hearts game on Alba too.

Why should we not encourage and nurture an entire language from our own country? Its not my language or culture but so what?

I think we should teach Scots in schools as well. My 13 year old lad sound like some posh lad from a private Edinburgh school FFS! 

 

Aye

Hoose

Oot

Naw

Ken

Erse

Blether

Gawn

Doon

Denner

Troosers

 

And many more basic Scots words that I use every day that my lad says in English. Even Scots is dying.

 

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I don't know, around100K at a guess but I couldn't care less to be honest and if they want their own TV station and their place names on road signs I really don't mind it. Get the odd Hearts game on Alba too.

Why should we not encourage and nurture an entire language from our own country? Its not my language or culture but so what?

I think we should teach Scots in schools as well. My 13 year old lad sound like some posh lad from a private Edinburgh school FFS! 

 

Aye

Hoose

Oot

Naw

Ken

Erse

Blether

Gawn

Doon

Denner

Troosers

 

And many more basic Scots words that I use every day that my lad says in English. Even Scots is dying.

 

I just don’t see the point in nurturing or developing it. It hasn’t been the language of most Scots for centuries. I don’t mind bbc Alba or the road signs either, as I’ve said I just don’t see the point.

 

I use those words as well but I was absolutely baffled by the guy in the video. Language moves on over time in all cultures and countries. Why turn back the clock and almost fabricate a language? It just sounds so false and just a mix of different dialects that was probaly never spoken together. Are we to abandon the different ways that people in Glasgow, aberdeen, Edinburgh, Dundee and Orkney speak and just adopt this version of Scots. That would be cultural genocide to coin a phrase. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by GinRummy

[Pans Jambo]

11 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I just don’t see the point in nurturing or developing it. It hasn’t been the language of most Scots for centuries. I don’t mind bbc Alba or the road signs either, as I’ve said I just don’t see the point.

 

I use those words as well but I was absolutely baffled by the guy in the video. Language moves on over time in all cultures and countries. Why turn back the clock and almost fabricate a language? It just sounds so false and just a mix of different dialects that was probaly never spoken together. Are we to abandon the different ways that people in Glasgow, aberdeen, Edinburgh, Dundee and Orkney and just adopt this version of Scots. That would be cultural genocide to come a phrase. 

No they speak scots in Eberdeen and Dundee too, just a different accent and dialect of Scots than people here or in Glasgow. Same in England. Newcastle, Liverpool, Birmingham, West Country all speak English but half of them cant understand the other half!

Scots has been washed out a fair bit due to 70 years of BBC telly, American TV shows and films and posh pronunciation driven into the older generations at school. I said earlier I got the belt at a young age for daring to say "aye" and so grew up as a kid thinking that I was bad for speaking my native tongue.

I'm not beating a drum or writing letters but I just think Scots as a language should be encouraged and taught. The world seems to celebrate Burns day and recite his poems etc. Would be nice if at least some of the locals could understand or speak some of the bard's tongue.

 

Scots as a language is older than English.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[GinRummy]

13 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

No they speak scots in Eberdeen and Dundee too, just a different accent and dialect of Scots than people here or in Glasgow. Same in England. Newcastle, Liverpool, Birmingham, West Country all speak English but half of them cant understand the other half!

Scots has been washed out a fair bit due to 70 years of BBC telly, American TV shows and films and posh pronunciation driven into the older generations at school. I said earlier I got the belt at a young age for daring to say "aye" and so grew up as a kid thinking that I was bad for speaking my native tongue.

I'm not beating a drum or writing letters but I just think Scots as a language should be encouraged and taught. The world seems to celebrate Burns day and recite his poems etc. Would be nice if at least some of the locals could understand or speak some of the bard's tongue.

 

Scots as a language is older than English.

You obviously know more about it than I do but if you think anybody should start speaking like the guy in the video then I’m sorry but that’s just crazy. I’m all for using our own words and speaking in our own way but wiping out a couple of hundred years of change and going back to speaking like that (if indeed anyone ever did, and I have my doubts) is just lunacy. 
 

It would be like the English suddenly deciding to speak old english like the tudors or something. Just daft. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by GinRummy

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

You obviously know more about it than I do but if you think anybody should start speaking like the guy in the video then I’m sorry but that’s just crazy. I’m all for using our own words and speaking in our own way but wiping out a couple of hundred years of change and going back to speaking like that (if indeed anyone ever did, and I have my doubts) is just lunacy. 
 

It would be like the English suddenly deciding to speak old english like the tudors or something. Just daft. 

I dont speak like the guy in the video either. in 2011 the Scottish census returned 5.4Million folk as a population with 1.5 million saying their first language was "Scots". I doubt that to be honest but as I said, it should be taught as a subject in School. They STILL teach religious studies in 1st and 2nd year at the high school which completely rips m y knitting so I would swap that for Scots language. At least the kids would get a laugh and pick up a few new words!

Accent or dialect I will leave up to the individual.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

I dont speak like the guy in the video either. in 2011 the Scottish census returned 5.4Million folk as a population with 1.5 million saying their first language was "Scots". I doubt that to be honest but as I said, it should be taught as a subject in School. They STILL teach religious studies in 1st and 2nd year at the high school which completely rips m y knitting so I would swap that for Scots language. At least the kids would get a laugh and pick up a few new words!

Accent or dialect I will leave up to the individual.

Nothing against that at all. Learning words and where they came from would be interesting for most kids. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

There are two common themes from the "passionate" Nats on this thread

 

1) if they can't answer point reasonably its met with an "aye, but" reference to either Boris, Westminster, England or the Tories

 

2) When 1 above is pointed out, they respond further with childish insults

 

 

 

Meanwhile passionate unionists like to pretend comparisons with our current government, system and ruling party are;

 

1) anti-english

 

2) not one of the major issues at play

[BudgeUp]

I really don't see why road signs are such a huge issue for folk. Who actually cares? It's political fluff.

 

I like seeing the original gaelic names displayed from a purely etymological standpoint.

[coconut doug]

37 minutes ago, BudgeUp said:

I really don't see why road signs are such a huge issue for folk. Who actually cares? It's political fluff.

 

I like seeing the original gaelic names displayed from a purely etymological standpoint.

 

I agree. Some people really dislike it though and it worries me that so many want to bury Scotland's past. 

[coconut doug]

4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I got the belt from some empire loving arsehole of a teacher for saying “aye” instead of  yes in primary 4. Nazi.

 

Standard behaviour right across the country. Luckily this treatment hasn't affected us in a bad way.

[coconut doug]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I do have respect for the Gaelic culture. It’s just a tiny part of Scottish culture though and is so small that imo is utterly irrelevant. You just switched from using the term “Scottish culture “ to gaelic culture. 
 

That isn’t the language of indeginous Scots though. Where exactly has that come from. Nobody talks like that. Who decided that is what passes as Scots? Who decided? I am an indigenous Scot. I speak fairly similarly to other indigenous Scots and it is **** all like that. 

 

You cannot say "I don’t value it at all." and say it's "utterly irrelevant"  when talking about Gaelic then tell us you have respect for it. That doesn't make sense. 

 

  The terms Scottish culture and Gaelic culture are not interchangeable terms they have different meanings. That's how i used them.

 

People do talk like those in the video. There are very few left however but there are substantial fragments existing all over the country. It is the common usage of words and their meaning that makes Scots a language and these words were spoken all over the country not that long ago. That's why Scots is a language not because somebody decided. What a ridiculous notion that is anyway, who decided Navajo or Romansch were languages?

 

You may not speak like that but it is a near certainty that if you are ethnically Scottish your recent ancestors would have. 

 

    Gaelic culture is an old culture and has played a significant part in our history and in defining what Scotland is particularly in music but also religion and politics IMO. It most definitely is not so small as to be utterly irrelevant as you suggest. There is a common Celtic cultural link across many countries that many Scots and others value. It would be much bigger had the Highland clearances not happened but it still makes a significant contribution to Scotland's culture and to the wider Gaelic speaking countries and regions. Teaching children more than one language has been shown to improve development and telling people their culture and language are utterly irrelevant has definitely not. 

[manaliveits105]

a bheil Jimmy Krankie agus Johnny Swinney air a dhreuchd a leigeil dheth fhathast?

[GinRummy]

5 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

You cannot say "I don’t value it at all." and say it's "utterly irrelevant"  when talking about Gaelic then tell us you have respect for it. That doesn't make sense. 

 

  The terms Scottish culture and Gaelic culture are not interchangeable terms they have different meanings. That's how i used them.

 

People do talk like those in the video. There are very few left however but there are substantial fragments existing all over the country. It is the common usage of words and their meaning that makes Scots a language and these words were spoken all over the country not that long ago. That's why Scots is a language not because somebody decided. What a ridiculous notion that is anyway, who decided Navajo or Romansch were languages?

 

You may not speak like that but it is a near certainty that if you are ethnically Scottish your recent ancestors would have. 

 

    Gaelic culture is an old culture and has played a significant part in our history and in defining what Scotland is particularly in music but also religion and politics IMO. It most definitely is not so small as to be utterly irrelevant as you suggest. There is a common Celtic cultural link across many countries that many Scots and others value. It would be much bigger had the Highland clearances not happened but it still makes a significant contribution to Scotland's culture and to the wider Gaelic speaking countries and regions. Teaching children more than one language has been shown to improve development and telling people their culture and language are utterly irrelevant has definitely not. 

Of course it makes sense. You just don’t want it to. It’s commonplace to respect cultures that have zero personal relevance. 
 

My recent ancestors going back 100 years didn’t speak like that because nobody talks like the guy in the video. It’s made up nonsense. It’s a mixture of different dialects brought together by some weirdo who doesn’t want to preserve a language but wants to make one up. 
 

Teaching children more than one language is a great idea.  If people want their kids to learn garlic that’s up to them but why someone from central Scotland, as an example, would want to learn Gaelic is just odd to me. 

[GinRummy]

6 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I agree. Some people really dislike it though and it worries me that so many want to bury Scotland's past. 

You want to bury Scotland’s past and get us all talking like a bunch of weirdos. 

[GinRummy]

7 hours ago, BudgeUp said:

I really don't see why road signs are such a huge issue for folk. Who actually cares? It's political fluff.

 

I like seeing the original gaelic names displayed from a purely etymological standpoint.

The Gaelic names are not the original names. 

[Ron Burgundy]

If people think the only cost to taxpayers to add the Gaelic name to road signs is the cost of paint then I give up.

[GinRummy]

14 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

If people think the only cost to taxpayers to add the Gaelic name to road signs is the cost of paint then I give up.

What was the cost?

[Ron Burgundy]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

What was the cost?

 Just paint apparently. No planning. No labour. No transport/fuel costs. Just paint.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

 Just paint apparently. No planning. No labour. No transport/fuel costs. Just paint.

With you now 👍

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

If people think the only cost to taxpayers to add the Gaelic name to road signs is the cost of paint then I give up.

 

THAT'S what you got out of that discussion?

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

THAT'S what you got out of that discussion?

WTF are you on about? 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

WTF are you on about? 

 

There's a long, detailed discussion up there about the deep links between culture and language, the cost to humankind when a language is lost—a language that may have within it a way to express an idea that no other language even has, meaning we as humans have lost a way, literally, to think.

 

And you are on about taxpayers and paint.

 

WTF am *I* on about?   My word.

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

There's a long, detailed discussion up there about the deep links between culture and language, the cost to humankind when a language is lost—a language that may have within it a way to express an idea that no other language even has, meaning we as humans have lost a way, literally, to think.

 

And you are on about taxpayers and paint.

 

WTF am *I* on about?   My word.

Do me a favour, if my contribution isn't quite up to your high level of intellectual debate then just stfu and ignore me. The shed is primarily a football fans forum for chatting shit about everything. There are very few experts on here, mainly just normal working class guys who's love of Hearts have found them chucked together.

You on the other hand are in no way a football or a Hearts fan. You seem to get a kick out of appearing on here as some sort of intellectual woke poster who sneers and looks down on all who do not lick your arse. 

Please just FO. You really irritate the shit out of me. 

At least Shaun L knew a bit about football.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

Do me a favour, if my contribution isn't quite up to your high level of intellectual debate then just stfu and ignore me. The shed is primarily a football fans forum for chatting shit about everything. There are very few experts on here, mainly just normal working class guys who's love of Hearts have found them chucked together.

You on the other hand are in no way a football or a Hearts fan. You seem to get a kick out of appearing on here as some sort of intellectual woke poster who sneers and looks down on all who do not lick your arse. 

Please just FO. You really irritate the shit out of me. 

At least Shaun L knew a bit about football.

 

I didn't participate in the discussion at all, I've just posted a summary of what the others were talking about. Has **** all to do with my intellect. Certainly does yours though

 

Thank you, if for nothing else, then for the absolute belly laugh this morning. Haven't had one like that in quite a while. Do be sure to see someone about that irritation though, before you know it, it might develop into a full blown rash, and we don't want that!

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

I didn't participate in the discussion at all, I've just posted a summary of what the others were talking about. Has **** all to do with my intellect. Certainly does yours though

 

Thank you, if for nothing else, then for the absolute belly laugh this morning. Haven't had one like that in quite a while. Do be sure to see someone about that irritation though, before you know it, it might develop into a full blown rash, and we don't want that!

Ok thanks. Glad you had a laugh.

Bye.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Ok thanks. Glad you had a laugh.

Bye.

 

You've really no idea Much appreciated.

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Do me a favour, if my contribution isn't quite up to your high level of intellectual debate then just stfu and ignore me. The shed is primarily a football fans forum for chatting shit about everything. There are very few experts on here, mainly just normal working class guys who's love of Hearts have found them chucked together.

You on the other hand are in no way a football or a Hearts fan. You seem to get a kick out of appearing on here as some sort of intellectual woke poster who sneers and looks down on all who do not lick your arse. 

Please just FO. You really irritate the shit out of me. 

At least Shaun L knew a bit about football.

 

I quite like JZ but this is a reasonable summary.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I quite like JZ but this is a reasonable summary.

 

Yep, really the only bits I disagree with are the "not a football/Hearts fan" and the Larson comparison, he's far less of a bore. Ron's being a big softy with that one. Cheers Ron but you don't need to go easy on me 🍻

[Dawnrazor]

57 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Do me a favour, if my contribution isn't quite up to your high level of intellectual debate then just stfu and ignore me. The shed is primarily a football fans forum for chatting shit about everything. There are very few experts on here, mainly just normal working class guys who's love of Hearts have found them chucked together.

You on the other hand are in no way a football or a Hearts fan. You seem to get a kick out of appearing on here as some sort of intellectual woke poster who sneers and looks down on all who do not lick your arse. 

Please just FO. You really irritate the shit out of me. 

At least Shaun L knew a bit about football.

Pretty much sums him up👍

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Pretty much sums him up👍

 

Have you not got some ducks to go murder, ya big toff?

[redjambo]

15 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thats because you are likely Scots not Gaelic but both cultures reside and hail

from Scotland. 

 

Picts, FTW. No-one seems to remember about us.

[Governor Tarkin]

56 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yep, really the only bits I disagree with are the "not a football/Hearts fan" and the Larson comparison, he's far less of a bore. Ron's being a big softy with that one. Cheers Ron but you don't need to go easy on me 🍻

 

🍻

[Dawnrazor]

13 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Have you not got some ducks to go murder, ya big toff?

Aye, ok.

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Picts, FTW. No-one seems to remember about us.

 

I'm one of those mongrel Jocks that's a product of centuries of invasions, immigration, raping, woman-stealing, and general all-round inter-shagging from Ireland to the Urals. There's even a spot of South East Asian and Pacific Islander DNA in there too - which I can only attribute to a spot of hanky-panky during Great Britain's imperial adventure. Yay.

 

It provides great scope for ancestors on whose behalf to be offended when the racism starts.

 

P.S. I quite like the Gaelic place names, but not as much as the tourists do.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Aye, ok.

 

I think that was a peace offering, Dawn. 

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I think that was a peace offering, Dawn. 

Tell the ***** to put a duck suit on and come down here on offer it.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Tell the ***** to put a duck suit on and come down here on offer it.

 

Fair enough.