Guest Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, Roxy Hearts said: Don't care which person if not Sturgeon. I support independence regardless of personality. And there will be many like you,but what about those who are more fluid with their votes and may change to a unionist party? That would clearly hamper the Indy cause. Of course, the opposite could be true too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, Governor Tarkin said: This attitude is worrying. Why? Not looking for an argument, it's just his view is similar to mine in that I want independence and currently SNP are the only party supporting that so they get my vote regardless of leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Why? Not looking for an argument, it's just his view is similar to mine in that I want independence and currently SNP are the only party supporting that so they get my vote regardless of leader. Exactly. Unionists expect definitive answers for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said: Exactly. Unionists expect definitive answers for everything. We need less definitive answers imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said: We need less definitive answers imo And mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: We need more hate filled xenophobes imo. But only so long as they're thankful for being let off easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said: As much as I want independence, I still don't think there's enough support for it. I'm only using my personal experience with family and friends. Some have moved to the independence camp and have been impressed with Nicola Sturgeon especially my wife and her friends but still get the feeling it's too loose. According to Panelbase. Yes 56% No 44% With undecided taken out. Yes 51% No 42% Edited November 14, 2020 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/11/12/scottish-independence-yes-51-49-no Holyrood looking like a complete tanking for all from the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Latest yougov poll showing support for independence down 4 % to 51 % (6-10th Nov) - they’ve only gone and hibsed it big time Down from 53% down 2% with no up 47% to 49% a swing of 4% from 6% to 2%. You didn't tell us the SNP was up to 57% at Holyrood. An absolute pumping with a referendum in the manifesto. Now tell me how Boris says no, when he won't even be PM. And let's see how the new PM (If you looked up Hoose jock in the dictionary, his face would appear) is gonnae tell Scotland how they can't take back power etc... etc... You know, the way he says about Brexit. Oh, just think about it, Michael Gove, the smarmiest wee rat faced Britnat fae Scotland, the prime minister of England, post Scottish independence. I wonder how that will go down, down south. 🤔 Edited November 14, 2020 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: Good. Well that's me convinced. 51 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Why? Not looking for an argument, it's just his view is similar to mine in that I want independence and currently SNP are the only party supporting that so they get my vote regardless of leader. I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. 42 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: We need less definitive answers imo Not bad, Konrad. Not bad. 35 minutes ago, Justin Z said: But only so long as they're thankful for being let off easy! Correct. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgeUp Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: This attitude is worrying. Better to vote on the cult of personality as opposed to principles eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: Well that's me convinced. I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. Not bad, Konrad. Not bad. Correct. 👍 I did wonder how that would be received! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: Well that's me convinced. I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. Not bad, Konrad. Not bad. Correct. 👍 You don’t accept there’s people who would vote against it at all costs too. That’s fine though? Is there a difference? To some it’s a determination to see Scotland regain its nationhood. The rest they’re happy to work out when we get there. It’s only really worrying if you somehow believe that’s Scotland is just completely incapable or ever doing anything without England holding our hand or firing money up our hoop to let us get free bus passes and prescriptions. That we disappear into an abyss or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. I'm genuinely concerned by the 'union at all costs' mindset, what can you do eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, Smithee said: I'm genuinely concerned by the 'union at all costs' mindset, what can you do eh? Vote accordingly I suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Vote accordingly I suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husref musemic Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 hours ago, ri Alban said: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/11/12/scottish-independence-yes-51-49-no Holyrood looking like a complete tanking for all from the SNP. when the opposition is chronic & Sturgeon gets more hours on daytime telly than Phil and Holly then no wonder they are ahead. "Democracy" at Westminster and Holyrood looking more like one party states. Although looks likely to rebalance at WM next time. we unfortunately are not that smart. More of the same with the end justifiying the means for most folk in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: You don’t accept there’s people who would vote against it at all costs too. That’s fine though? Is there a difference? Of course there is, and they scare me too. 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: To some it’s a determination to see Scotland regain its nationhood. Scotland has never stopped being a nation. I know that sounds contradictory to some of the other stuff I'll come out with but it's a cold, hard, fact. 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: The rest they’re happy to work out when we get there. There's a difference between working out the details when we get there, and working out everything when we get there. You know that though so I won't take issue with you about it. You're not in the indy at any cost camp. 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: It’s only really worrying if you somehow believe that’s Scotland is just completely incapable or ever doing anything without England holding our hand or firing money up our hoop to let us get free bus passes and prescriptions. You're barking up the wrong tree bud. I don't believe any of that. It's the blinkered pursuit of independence that worrys me. It's not a useful mindset for problem solving, and we'll be doing a lot of that. I do think we could make a much better job of the union than the current shitshow though. All of our parliaments/governments are culpable on that score. They'll all finger point to death, but the cold truth is that in servicing their own interests and agendas they've let everybody down. 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: That we disappear into an abyss or something. Got a babysitter so fully planning on this over the course of the evening. 👍 Enjoy the weekend, mate. ✌ Edited November 14, 2020 by Governor Tarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 46 minutes ago, Smithee said: I'm genuinely concerned by the 'union at all costs' mindset, what can you do eh? Self medicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Of course there is, and they scare me too. Scotland has never stopped being a nation. I know that sounds contradictory to some of the other stuff I'll come out with but it's a cold, hard, fact. There's a difference between working out the details when we get there, and working out everything when we get there. You know that though so I won't take issue with you about it. You're not in the indy at any cost camp. You're barking up the wrong tree bud. I don't believe any of that. It's the blinkered pursuit of independence that worrys me. It's not a useful mindset for problem solving, and we'll be doing a lot of that. I do think we could make a much better job of the union than the current shitshow though. All of our parliaments/governments are culpable on that score. They'll all finger point to death, but the cold truth is that in servicing their own interests and agendas they've let everybody down. Got a babysitter so fully planning on this over the course of the evening. 👍 Enjoy the weekend, mate. ✌ I’m same im on it. Don’t believe I congratulated you on the new arrival either. All the very best to you and family bud🍾 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: Well that's me convinced. I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. Not bad, Konrad. Not bad. Correct. 👍 I'm not trying to convince you GT. Politics is about policy and democracy not personality and that was the point I was trying to make. Love Star Wars and Peter Cushing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: I’m same im on it. Don’t believe I congratulated you on the new arrival either. All the very best to you and family bud🍾 New arrival 😳 Congrats Tark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Justin Z said: New arrival 😳 Congrats Tark I must have missed that too Enjoy the sleepless nights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said: Politics is about policy and democracy not personality and that was the point I was trying to make. I'm annoyed at myself for not picking up on that, RH. Sorry. It's a good and fair point, and outwith the usual caveats I agree completely. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: Enjoy the sleepless nights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 34 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: I'm annoyed at myself for not picking up on that, RH. Sorry. It's a good and fair point, and outwith the usual caveats I agree completely. 👍 No probs and congratulations on the wee one. It's a world of love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 3 hours ago, jack D and coke said: I’m same im on it. Don’t believe I congratulated you on the new arrival either. All the very best to you and family bud🍾 3 hours ago, Justin Z said: New arrival 😳 Congrats Tark Let me know when you're ot of the ChinaAIDS pokey, JZ. My new boy'll come pish on your beermat. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Heard it was a package for Mrs Murrell https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bomb-squad-called-edinburgh-royal-23010558 Edited November 15, 2020 by The Frenchman Returns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) . Edited November 15, 2020 by The Frenchman Returns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 On 13/11/2020 at 19:56, GinRummy said: The tories are a party who have become the masters of distraction techiniques. Most, if not all, of the things on your list have happened under the Tory government’s watch and they’ve somehow managed to convince enough people that all problems will be solved by leaving the EU. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 On 13/11/2020 at 20:27, Jambo_Gaz said: STV poll. Okay then. STV? 😂 Almost every poll company but nice try Gaz 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 I hate sturgeon, Shes acting like a wee boy that was bullied at school. I've spoke to a few people and they are starting to turn because of the way she's handled covid. The SNP have lost my vote until she's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Herbert said: I hate sturgeon, Shes acting like a wee boy that was bullied at school. I've spoke to a few people and they are starting to turn because of the way she's handled covid. The SNP have lost my vote until she's gone. 😃😃😃😃 kid on Hearts fan and now kid on SNP voter. Get a life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, XB52 said: 😃😃😃😃 kid on Hearts fan and now kid on SNP voter. Get a life Never been called a kid on hearts fan before 😂 What makes me these things? I'm not but it would be interesting to see why you think this, Or is that just a easy thing to say to dismiss someone who has a different opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Herbert said: Never been called a kid on hearts fan before 😂 What makes me these things? I'm not but it would be interesting to see why you think this, Or is that just a easy thing to say to dismiss someone who has a different opinion? Childish insults towards fellow posters are the order of the day from some on this thread. I've been on the end of it a few times. Thankfully I've resisted the temptation to lower myself to their level. Edited November 15, 2020 by Fun Boaby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Herbert said: I hate sturgeon, Shes acting like a wee boy that was bullied at school. I've spoke to a few people and they are starting to turn because of the way she's handled covid. The SNP have lost my vote until she's gone. I found the opposite. What and who's the alternative? Certainly not the dumplings from other parties in the Scottish Parliament. Maybe Ian Murray that fine upstanding Scot who loves his country! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said: I found the opposite. What and who's the alternative? Certainly not the dumplings from other parties in the Scottish Parliament. Maybe Ian Murray that fine upstanding Scot who loves his country! There is no alternative, Look at politicians they are out of touch with reality. They get paid a fortune to represent us and what do they do. Right now strip us of our rights, They are turning Scotland/UK into a police state, They use section 13 to breach our right to remain anonymous. They are taking about arresting and handing out fines to people that speak out against a rushed/untested vaccine. We've been confined to the house, made to queue for essentials now were threatened with punishment when we question the government. Stalin must be back from the dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, Herbert said: There is no alternative, Look at politicians they are out of touch with reality. They get paid a fortune to represent us and what do they do. Right now strip us of our rights, They are turning Scotland/UK into a police state, They use section 13 to breach our right to remain anonymous. They are taking about arresting and handing out fines to people that speak out against a rushed/untested vaccine. We've been confined to the house, made to queue for essentials now were threatened with punishment when we question the government. Stalin must be back from the dead. I don't recognise any of this. What is section 13 and who has suffered as a result of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, coconut doug said: I don't recognise any of this. What is section 13 and who has suffered as a result of it? Section 13 is what the police use to get your details. You have the right to refuse to give your details to the police. Until they use this. Under section 13 the police can just say they suspect you of a crime even if they actually dont and if you don't give your information you can get arrested. It's not really a big deal giving your name, But the point is we dont have to and dont need to tell the police anything provided you have done nothing wrong. Section 13 was created to take that away from people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Herbert said: There is no alternative, Look at politicians they are out of touch with reality. They get paid a fortune to represent us and what do they do. Right now strip us of our rights, They are turning Scotland/UK into a police state, They use section 13 to breach our right to remain anonymous. They are taking about arresting and handing out fines to people that speak out against a rushed/untested vaccine. We've been confined to the house, made to queue for essentials now were threatened with punishment when we question the government. Stalin must be back from the dead. We’ve had the most lax lockdown of any country I know. I have family in Oz and NZ etc and a place in Spain where the lockdowns have been pretty brutal. Much, much more police state like than here. I’ve been very critical of NS and the British govt. We’re all pissed off man but people don’t half make stuff up to try dig the SG out at times. Edited November 15, 2020 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 23 minutes ago, Herbert said: Section 13 is what the police use to get your details. You have the right to refuse to give your details to the police. Until they use this. Under section 13 the police can just say they suspect you of a crime even if they actually dont and if you don't give your information you can get arrested. It's not really a big deal giving your name, But the point is we dont have to and dont need to tell the police anything provided you have done nothing wrong. Section 13 was created to take that away from people. You're funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, ri Alban said: You're funny! Under section 13 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995, a constable is empowered to require the name, address, date of birth, place of birth (in as much detail as the constable considers necessary) and the nationality of anyone whom they suspect of committing or having committed an offence. It is an offence to fail to provide these details or to fail to remain with the constable whilst these details are required or verified. Now imagine the scenario, Your at a pro indy rally, All william Wallace shouting freedom. doing nothing wrong not breaking any laws. The police stop you. You have the right to walk away and not say a word. This power removes that right. The police can collect your details. This can be used against you at a later date. It wont be the first time people's information has been gathered to use against them in the future. The police in england have the stop and search thing. For a free country were not very free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 33 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: We’ve had the most lax lockdown of any country I know. I have family in Oz and NZ etc and a place in Spain where the lockdowns have been pretty brutal. Much, much more police state like than here. I’ve been very critical of NS and the British govt. We’re all pissed off man but people don’t half make stuff up to try dig the SG out at times. It's not just about the lockdown measures It's the legislations and laws they have been sliding in under the guise of covid 19. The misinformation and fear getting spread. The police have been fining people for not following government ADVICE. Advice isn't a law and you cant get fined for not following advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, coconut doug said: I don't recognise any of this. What is section 13 and who has suffered as a result of it? Please don't encourage him. He hasn't a clue , just a troll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Fun Boaby said: Childish insults towards fellow posters are the order of the day from some on this thread. I've been on the end of it a few times. Thankfully I've resisted the temptation to lower myself to their level. Stupid is as stupid does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Just now, Herbert said: It's not just about the lockdown measures It's the legislations and laws they have been sliding in under the guise of covid 19. The misinformation and fear getting spread. The police have been fining people for not following government ADVICE. Advice isn't a law and you cant get fined for not following advice. Yeah mate do you know anyone been getting fined? Nobody gives two shites here that I’ve seen. I know a few who felt the force of a real police state in Spain for example. The reaction here had our police been instructed to behave the way they did in Spain or NZ or Oz would have people in absolute meltdown. I barely see a policeman here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, XB52 said: Stupid is as stupid does My point didn't require proving, but thanks for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Yeah mate do you know anyone been getting fined? Nobody gives two shites here that I’ve seen. I know a few who felt the force of a real police state in Spain for example. The reaction here had our police been instructed to behave the way they did in Spain or NZ or Oz would have people in absolute meltdown. I barely see a policeman here. Not personally no. Just what's been reported in the news and what people have told me in the shop. Do you not the government know it would cause riots if they went about it like they do in Spain. Our politicians do everything underhand so why would turning us into a police state be any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, XB52 said: Please don't encourage him. He hasn't a clue , just a troll Maybe you could fill us in on section 13 and why the police use it, Since I dont have a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 44 minutes ago, Herbert said: Not personally no. Just what's been reported in the news and what people have told me in the shop. Do you not the government know it would cause riots if they went about it like they do in Spain. Our politicians do everything underhand so why would turning us into a police state be any different? Are we going into the world plot now? Into Q-Anon territory that is it not? Scotland or the UK as police states is laughable mate. We have completely different ways of policing as you’d find almost anywhere else in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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