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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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12 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

One thing I do know , Scotland would thrive if we could force greater Glasgow to be independent 

No chance they spy free money

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42 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

It will be interesting to see what Shetlanders do actually wish, they also voted massively to stay in the EU

 

The Shetlands are an interesting one. Definitely not just another region of Scotland like South Lanarkshire or West Lothian etc.

 

They didn't become part of Scotland until the 15th century. I visited in 2013 and I gained a strong impression that they have a very strong sense of identity, most seeing themselves as Shetlanders First and Scottish Second. Shetland flags are flown a lot, with a good few Norwegian ones on view too.  If they do choose the British Crown Dependency route a la Isle of Man or Channel Isles, it would have a lot of autonomy and could easily end up a near shore tax haven as the former 2 both very much are. 

 

Oil prices have been subdued for a while now but if they rose significantly, the revenue loss would be a blow for sure, be that to Scotland or the UK, depending on what constitutional arrangements it pursued.

Edited by SwindonJambo
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39 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I've never been and I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about the place, however they will hold a large political sway strategically if not in numbers of voters.

 

It's an issue that will need addressed if they choose not to be part of an Independent Scotland

Scotland got them as security for a dowry from Norway. Norway tried to retake them by naval force a few times but the Scots beat them off.

 

It definitely has political clout and strategic importance way beyond its 23,000 inhabitants. It has a significant portion of Scotland's oil reserves and, if going down the UK Crown Dependency route, a good bet for a new naval base or even new location for the Nuke Subs base. 

 

A hot potato and definitely needs to be addressed as you say. 

 

 

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WoolfordsHearts
4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

One thing I do know , Scotland would thrive if we could force greater Glasgow to be independent 

I'd certainly vote for that.

 

Jurrasic park like electric fences and border checks at Easterhoose would need to be guaranteed though.☝️

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5 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

Dunno about anyone else but I'm all for as much power as possible at the local level. If Shetland wants to go on its own, more power to them I say. Same applies to Clackmannanshire and the rest. 

 

Completely agree.

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AYe bUT shETlaND wiLL juST brEAk aWAy fAE scotLAnd

 

:vrface: This utter feckin pish again

 

If that's really the case, why isn't Shetland breaking away from the UK right now?

Edited by Cade
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On 11/09/2020 at 00:46, Fun Boaby said:

Would you accept that as the price to pay for an independent Scotland?

And if Northern Ireland, Gibraltar, and London choose to join Scotland. Oh and Yorkshire want to be independent. 

What say ye? 

Edited by ri Alban
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3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

And if Northern Ireland, Gibraltar, and London choose to join Scotland. Oh and Yorkshire want to be independent. 

What say ye? 

Sounds like  self determination. Why not.

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On 11/09/2020 at 09:50, Fun Boaby said:

Never mind West Lothian, what about Shetland.  What's your view on their situation?  Would you stand in the way of Shetland being self-governed or wanting to join up with the Faroes, away from Scotland?

 

 

 

Yes I would. Shetland belo gs to the kingdom of Scotland, bought and paid for. So if shetland islanders want to buy it. I'm sure a few billion will suffice. Oh and their border is about 12 miles all round, which has not that much oil in it. Don't tell me you thought the shetland islands owned Scottish oil waters. You did, didn't you? 🤣

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Just now, Fun Boaby said:

Sounds like  self determination. Why not.

Don't worry, this will all be finished soon. Scotland and NI will go one way and England and Wales another. No parts within will be leaving any country. 

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1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Yes I would. Shetland belo gs to the kingdom of Scotland, bought and paid for. So if shetland islanders want to buy it. I'm sure a few billion will suffice. Oh and their border is about 12 miles all round, which has not that much oil in it. Don't tell me you thought the shetland islands owned Scottish oil waters. You did, didn't you? 🤣

I've no idea what they own. I don't spend time obsessing  about such things.

 

Youve been quiet on this thread the last day or so. Did u get a wee ban for your deleted post?

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4 minutes ago, Fun Boaby said:

I've no idea what they own. I don't spend time obsessing  about such things.

 

Youve been quiet on this thread the last day or so. Did u get a wee ban for your deleted post?

No how. I've been working, (so a bit busy) . Have you ever heard of it.

I was off Wednesday so I had a day of JKB. As for the post,  I didn't realise it had gone. 

Oh right now I know , you reported it, didn't ye? :rofl:what a pathetic little traitor some are. 

Edited by ri Alban
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Just now, ri Alban said:

No how. I've been working. Have you ever heard of it. I was off Wednesday so I had a day of JKB. As for the post, didn't realise it had gone. 

Oh right, you reported it, didn't ye? :rofl:what a pathetic little traitor some are. 

I never reported it. It was ridiculous enough in its own right. I was actually morbidly curious as to whether the  mods would remove it given their own persuasions.

 

Anyway have a good day. Im away to get pished with some mates before  Nicolas latest law kicks in

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1 minute ago, Fun Boaby said:

I never reported it. It was ridiculous enough in its own right. I was actually morbidly curious as to whether the  mods would remove it given their own persuasions.

 

Anyway have a good day. Im away to get pished with some mates before  Nicolas latest law kicks in

:rofl:Mates? Good yin. Sitting watching reruns of an  episode of friends. Isn't going out with mates.

 

You could go to England, wait a minute...

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jack D and coke
1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Yes I would. Shetland belo gs to the kingdom of Scotland, bought and paid for. So if shetland islanders want to buy it. I'm sure a few billion will suffice. Oh and their border is about 12 miles all round, which has not that much oil in it. Don't tell me you thought the shetland islands owned Scottish oil waters. You did, didn't you? 🤣

They might want to check that eh :lol: 
 

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50 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

They might want to check that eh :lol: 
 

I think they'd better :D They're in for a big surprise. But putting a thorn in Scotland's side would suit the English. 

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I really hope Independence Day isn't in winter, it'd be great to have a giant parade and a right good street party, maybe even over a couple of days.

Oh aye, who wouldn't enjoy that?

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28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I really hope Independence Day isn't in winter, it'd be great to have a giant parade and a right good street party, maybe even over a couple of days.

Oh aye, who wouldn't enjoy that?

 

Gammon

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1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Not all non-seperatist are gammon.

Stop being dicks pls.

No one's saying seafaring rastafarians are gammon, but gammon would indeed be upset, that's surely undeniable. 

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Governor Tarkin
1 minute ago, Smithee said:

No one's saying seafaring rastafarians are gammon, but gammon would indeed be upset, that's surely undeniable. 

 

Excellent point, well made.

russ+abbot.jpg.

 

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jack D and coke
9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Scrape the bottom of all the barrels you encounter.

 

You won't change what is happening.

 

Once in a lifetime/generation is a significant thing. 

“While in 2014, Scotland voted 55% against 45% to remain in the UK, with many claiming that it would settle the question for a generation, the possibility of Brexit always carried the risk of re-opening the constitutional question.”
 

Cannot be denied. 

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34 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

“While in 2014, Scotland voted 55% against 45% to remain in the UK, with many claiming that it would settle the question for a generation, the possibility of Brexit always carried the risk of re-opening the constitutional question.”
 

Cannot be denied. 

None of that can be denied.  Especially  the result.

 

The campaign changed from "aye" to "aye, but"

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Is Shetland to be followed by Orkney?  Western Isles? 

Looks like the London bubble has been copied in Edinburgh whereby the capital elite have no idea ( or care ) about the main body of the population.

 

As things stand the NSP  ( aye - the Nicola Sturgeon Party ) could end up in charge of an independent Scotbits.

 

In 50 years Iceland school children will be considering what was once Scotland and is now an insignificant blip on history.

 

The English must be laughing at us. Who needs enemies when your oldest one is eating itself? 

 

Mind, we have a history of dealing with our leaders.. Wallace was handed to the English, Mary was chased over the border but then we learned economics - Charles was sold to Cromwell.

 

Aren't we the nicest people to our heroes!!

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5 hours ago, strappingjock said:

Is Shetland to be followed by Orkney?  Western Isles? 

Looks like the London bubble has been copied in Edinburgh whereby the capital elite have no idea ( or care ) about the main body of the population.

 

As things stand the NSP  ( aye - the Nicola Sturgeon Party ) could end up in charge of an independent Scotbits.

 

In 50 years Iceland school children will be considering what was once Scotland and is now an insignificant blip on history.

 

The English must be laughing at us. Who needs enemies when your oldest one is eating itself? 

 

Mind, we have a history of dealing with our leaders.. Wallace was handed to the English, Mary was chased over the border but then we learned economics - Charles was sold to Cromwell.

 

Aren't we the nicest people to our heroes!!

 

Things are getting desperate when the argument against independence is getting to "what if Shetland wants independence too?"

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On 13/09/2020 at 07:44, strappingjock said:

Is Shetland to be followed by Orkney?  Western Isles? 

Looks like the London bubble has been copied in Edinburgh whereby the capital elite have no idea ( or care ) about the main body of the population.

 

As things stand the NSP  ( aye - the Nicola Sturgeon Party ) could end up in charge of an independent Scotbits.

 

In 50 years Iceland school children will be considering what was once Scotland and is now an insignificant blip on history.

 

The English must be laughing at us. Who needs enemies when your oldest one is eating itself? 

 

Mind, we have a history of dealing with our leaders.. Wallace was handed to the English, Mary was chased over the border but then we learned economics - Charles was sold to Cromwell.

 

Aren't we the nicest people to our heroes!!

I think you'll find, English an, that the Scottish people did none of what you've said. The Scum who chase power did. In 2014 the Scots voted for independence. And without foreigners no votes Scotland would be rid of the overlords. 

As for shetland, Scotland owns it, if the people who reside there don't want to live in an independent Scotland, they'll soon be removed. End of. And that goes for anyone, anywhere in Scotland. You'll be jailed. 

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11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I think you'll find, English an, that the Scottish people did none of what you've said. The Scum who chase power did. In 2014 the Scots voted for independence. And without foreigners no votes Scotland would be rid of the overlords. 

As for shetland, Scotland owns it, if the people who reside there don't want to live in an independent Scotland, they'll soon be removed. End of. And that goes for anyone, anywhere in Scotland. You'll be jailed, removed or executed. 

 

Now there's an excellent plan for a progressive, forward-looking independent Scotland :rolleyes5: :jj_facepalm:

 

If you don't like America - Trump President - Sticker | TeePublic

Edited by Justin Z
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39 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I think you'll find, English an, that the Scottish people did none of what you've said. The Scum who chase power did. In 2014 the Scots voted for independence. And without foreigners no votes Scotland would be rid of the overlords. 

As for shetland, Scotland owns it, if the people who reside there don't want to live in an independent Scotland, they'll soon be removed. End of. And that goes for anyone, anywhere in Scotland. You'll be jailed, removed or executed. 

 

Thank you Heinrich MacHimmler. Sounds like a good plan to build a progressive and welcoming nation👍

Edited by SwindonJambo
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Montgomery Brewster
On 11/09/2020 at 14:38, Space Mackerel said:

More falling of the SNP, they’re in free fall now. ☹️
 

 

 

 

4643188A-E2EF-463D-99D1-D27EECB0A21A.jpeg

Yes unbelieveable how much a free fall the snp are in. 😮

 

the thread title really needs to change” to the rise and rise of the snp.  “

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2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I think you'll find, English an, that the Scottish people did none of what you've said. The Scum who chase power did. In 2014 the Scots voted for independence. And without foreigners no votes Scotland would be rid of the overlords. 

As for shetland, Scotland owns it, if the people who reside there don't want to live in an independent Scotland, they'll soon be removed. End of. And that goes for anyone, anywhere in Scotland. You'll be jailed, removed or executed. 

FFS. You don't help yourself, do you? This kind of shit is one of the reasons I wasn't sure about voting Yes. The same ****ing pish the Little Englanders were coming out with on Brexit. If that's truly what an independent Scotland would be like, there's not a ****ing chance I'll be voting for it. 

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16 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

FFS. You don't help yourself, do you? This kind of shit is one of the reasons I wasn't sure about voting Yes. The same ****ing pish the Little Englanders were coming out with on Brexit. If that's truly what an independent Scotland would be like, there's not a ****ing chance I'll be voting for it. 

Im no Indy supporter, but I doubt very much whether that poster represents the average indy voter.

 

It's strange that his/her posting style is allowed so much latitude on here, given that many are disrespectful, aggressive and clearly trolling.

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CADE

 

Shetland not exactly trying to escape UK. The vote is to consider possibility of becoming Crown Dependency as per Channel Isles/IOM, Trsitan da Cunha. St Helena   etc. It seems the English run UK is more to their liking than the   the NSP future when Princess Street will be Kemlevskaya Naberezhnaya and the Scot monument rededicated to Felix Dzerzhinsky.

 

How did we ever get into this stupid rush to self destruction?   You only have to look around the world and try to find a successful socialist state. Not one has ever survived the passing of the (usually) despotic leader- even if it wears a skirt.

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4 hours ago, strappingjock said:

CADE

 

Shetland not exactly trying to escape UK. The vote is to consider possibility of becoming Crown Dependency as per Channel Isles/IOM, Trsitan da Cunha. St Helena   etc. It seems the English run UK is more to their liking than the   the NSP future when Princess Street will be Kemlevskaya Naberezhnaya and the Scot monument rededicated to Felix Dzerzhinsky.

 

How did we ever get into this stupid rush to self destruction?   You only have to look around the world and try to find a successful socialist state. Not one has ever survived the passing of the (usually) despotic leader- even if it wears a skirt.

Because the union's a ****ing mess.

 

If this is a successful state you can ram it.

 

18 minutes ago, strappingjock said:

Unless NS can found a dynasty like North Korea - that sort of society would suit NSP - until the people finally revolt

 

🤪

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2 hours ago, strappingjock said:

Unless NS can found a dynasty like North Korea - that sort of society would suit NSP - until the people finally revolt

Get a grip. What are you accusing Scots people of? North Korea, really! 

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Space Mackerel
On 13/09/2020 at 01:08, Zlatanable said:

Scrape the bottom of all the barrels you encounter.

 

You won't change what is happening.

 

Once in a lifetime/generation is a significant thing. 


Who to believe? Europe’s Chief Economist or Zlatanable? 😁

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On 13/09/2020 at 12:44, strappingjock said:

Is Shetland to be followed by Orkney?  Western Isles? 

Looks like the London bubble has been copied in Edinburgh whereby the capital elite have no idea ( or care ) about the main body of the population.

 

As things stand the NSP  ( aye - the Nicola Sturgeon Party ) could end up in charge of an independent Scotbits.

 

In 50 years Iceland school children will be considering what was once Scotland and is now an insignificant blip on history.

 

The English must be laughing at us. Who needs enemies when your oldest one is eating itself? 

 

Mind, we have a history of dealing with our leaders.. Wallace was handed to the English, Mary was chased over the border but then we learned economics - Charles was sold to Cromwell.

 

Aren't we the nicest people to our heroes!!

They're definitely not. Their only "interest" is a kind of resentment that Scotland still wants to go its own way : they don't understand and are unwilling to invest 5 minutes in comprehending  what is going on. 

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23 hours ago, Fun Boaby said:

Im no Indy supporter, but I doubt very much whether that poster represents the average indy voter.

 

It's strange that his/her posting style is allowed so much latitude on here, given that many are disrespectful, aggressive and clearly trolling.

I have said for years that I believe him to be a unionist just posting utter garbage for some sad reason. If he is indeed an independence supporter I thank the Lord he is in a tiny tiny minority of brain dead anti English bigots 

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10 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I have said for years that I believe him to be a unionist just posting utter garbage for some sad reason. If he is indeed an independence supporter I thank the Lord he is in a tiny tiny minority of brain dead anti English bigots 

They are certainly a minority but unfortunately it's not that tiny. The same goes for jingoistic Orange Lodge/ Rangers or Rangers leaning bigots on the Union side. Each an embarrassment and no help to their respective sides.

Edited by SwindonJambo
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1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

They are certainly a minority but unfortunately it's not that tiny. The same goes for jingoistic Orange Lodge/ Rangers or Rangers leaning bigots on the Union side. Each an embarrassment and no help to their respective sides.

 

I'd like to see you provide evidence that the group that is not tiny actually exists. I'm only aware of Sean Clerkin who has a banner saying England out of Scotland. It's been stated by many on here that there are many extremist anti-English nationalists posting on here but apart from the obvious (and he is trolling) nobody has been identified.

  The same does not go for "jingoistic Orange lodge Rangers leaning bigots. There are hundreds of thousands of them who have behaved in a deplorable fashion for years embarrassing out country and intimidating our people. Their behaviour on marches and rallies is often despicable and by contrast the marches by indy supporters are good natured and have resulted in virtually no arrests.

  I would though be really interested to see evidence that Indy supporters are anti-English and that this anti-Englishness is anything more than a handful of bampots if it exists at all.

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20 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I'd like to see you provide evidence that the group that is not tiny actually exists. I'm only aware of Sean Clerkin who has a banner saying England out of Scotland. It's been stated by many on here that there are many extremist anti-English nationalists posting on here but apart from the obvious (and he is trolling) nobody has been identified.

  The same does not go for "jingoistic Orange lodge Rangers leaning bigots. There are hundreds of thousands of them who have behaved in a deplorable fashion for years embarrassing out country and intimidating our people. Their behaviour on marches and rallies is often despicable and by contrast the marches by indy supporters are good natured and have resulted in virtually no arrests.

  I would though be really interested to see evidence that Indy supporters are anti-English and that this anti-Englishness is anything more than a handful of bampots if it exists at all.

It certainly isn't just a handful of bampots. You're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't exist at all. Probably worse in the West, where I'm from. A minority yes thankfully but definitely not tiny. The rest of Scotland is nowhere near as cosmopolitan as Edinburgh where no-one bats an eyelid at English accents which are common there. 

 

The nutjob Orange Lodgers are more likely to be in the tens of thousands than hundreds of thousands. If it was hundreds of thousands behaving as you describe, it would be civil war! They also tend to be older and a dwindling bunch.

 

My point is that there are embarrassing intimidating fruit loops on both sides who are a hindrance to their chosen sides and it would be naive to believe that the other side is worse than your own because of your own prejudices. And that goes for both sides.  I have this conversation with my dad often and he strongly supports the Union.

 

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9 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

It certainly isn't just a handful of bampots. You're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't exist at all. Probably worse in the West, where I'm from. A minority yes thankfully but definitely not tiny. The rest of Scotland is nowhere near as cosmopolitan as Edinburgh where no-one bats an eyelid at English accents which are common there. 

 

The nutjob Orange Lodgers are more likely to be in the tens of thousands than hundreds of thousands. If it was hundreds of thousands behaving as you describe, it would be civil war! They also tend to be older and a dwindling bunch.

 

My point is that there are embarrassing intimidating fruit loops on both sides who are a hindrance to their chosen sides and it would be naive to believe that the other side is worse than your own because of your own prejudices. And that goes for both sides.  I have this conversation with my dad often and he strongly supports the Union.

 

 

I've heard it all before but i never see them and despite numerous claims of online abuse nothing much materialises as evidence.

You seem to be suggesting that because English/Morningside accents are common in Edinburgh we are less likely to be anti-English. There are almost 1/2 a million English in Scotland and they are spread all over the country, that's getting on for 10% of the population. English people and their accents can be found everywhere but i have yet to see a proven link between the incidence of English people and their popularity among the indigenous population. A good research project for somebody.

 

     There are 50,000 Orange Lodge members in Scotland and many times more that number adhere to rangers in the "traditional" sense IMO.

These are the people (or so they tell us) who live in the least diverse communities in Scotland. It is a huge generalisation but it is they who live in the former mining towns and who nowadays are the left behind exhibiting the worst of all socioeconomic problems. The Indy movement draws a proportionately smaller amount of its support from these communities. Your comment about the civil war is amusing. I wonder how you have managed to miss it as you live in the west. For many Independence is seen as an opportunity to leave all this crap behind, not to perpetuate it.

 

Of course it would be naive to believe your side is better than the others without some evidence to back up you view and that is what i'm asking for. You really don't need me to provide evidence showing bigotry, intimidation and violence carried out by supporters of  the union do you? If you have got something that shows similar on the Indy side i would like to see it.

 

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